GM and Hummer? Will GM sell off Hummer?

[Desert Dan]

I'm all set to place my H3 Order and I hear Kerkorian (the largest GM shareholder) may want GM to sell Saab (No Loss) and Hummer?

What do you guys and gals think? Will GM sell off Hummer?
What is good for GM is goos for the USA

I doubt it because the H3 is selling so well and it is built in an GM plant?

GM's problems dind't happen over night. When the USA bailed out Chrysler I was against it but now I think it amy have been a good theing

[Desert Dan]

I'm all set to place my H3 Order and I hear Kerkorian (the largest GM shareholder) may want GM to sell Saab (No Loss) and Hummer?

What do you guys and gals think? Will GM sell off Hummer?
What is good for GM is goos for the USA

I doubt it because the H3 is selling so well and it is built in an GM plant?

GM's problems dind't happen over night. When the USA bailed out Chrysler I was against it but now I think it amy have been a good theing

[HummerNewbie]

Congrats on getting ready to place your order Dan. You have waited almost as long as I did. I don't think they will sell Hummer even if the H3 wasn't selling as well as it does. That is just bonus. With sales so far above last year, due to the H3, it doesn't make sense to me.

[NEOCON1]

hey dan , $hit that would suck i doubt they would unload hummer , saab maybe . some freakin pencil neck geek will give it to government subsidized lame ass china , then we all would be HUMMER H8rs . say it aint so i dont want to start hummpin trees . http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

man you should do pismo with us this weekend http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[hmrlvr]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">some freakin pencil neck geek will give it to government subsidized lame ass china , then we all would be HUMMER H8rs . say it aint so i dont want to start hummpin trees . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Hey Neocon- tell us what you really think http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[RazM]

Hummer is one of the FEW brands GM has that is actually making them money. Brands like Hummer are what GM needs. Innovative, unique, fun vehicles that stand out from the rest.

Kerkorian is an idiot for even suggesting GM lets it go, and I have a feeling there's something more behind his 'opinion.'

Maybe GM should dump all their boring cars and start innovating. The time where they could just build vehicles that get you from point A to point B are long gone. People want an extension of themselves in their vehicles, in ALL price ranges. Let the designers have a field day is what I say.

[XM DUDE]

I would like to see GM survive, I read almost every day in the WSJ about how Toyota is kicking GM's ass, bulding more plants wile GM and Ford are shutting down, it got me wondering if GM will be around in 10 years.

[Malibu1]

"pencil neck geek", now there's an old Classy Freddie Blassie reference. Funny

[f5fstop]

I would agree, it would be ludicrous for GM to sell off Hummer, it is one of the only vehicles that not only has a sellng model, but a model without any incentives.
Saab, well, hard to say if they would sell them off or just spin them off. My question would be, "who wants 'em?"

[DarthKarl]

Another reason against selling off the brand, is the fact that Hummer is one of the few GM brands that induces non-GM owners to actually buy a GM product.

Right now the last thing GM needs is to dump a division that converts people into GM customers.

[HummerJim]

I think DarthKarl brings up an EXCELLENT point.
This is my first GM vehicle since my 1978 Olds
Cutlass bent a pushrod and valve and it was two
months and 800 miles past warranty and they said
too bad. Also, the paint on the car faded very fast.
I even called the regional office several times. In
those days GM was selling tons of cars and
customer service and quality was nothing like today.
Since then I've had a few F150s and 250s 4x4s, an Explorer,
Lincoln, a Toyota and two Jeep Wranglers.
A post several weeks back said how the dealer experience
affects your pleasure with the vehicle, that is SO TRUE, and that bad experience with the Cutlass left a nasty taste in my mouth for years. Unfortunately, bean counters just look at
the bottom line, and I would find it hard to believe that
the H3 was doing poorly for GM and they would want to sell!

[Steve - SanJose]

I hope GM doesn't sell Hummer, don't think that would be a good idea. But the Hummer line and brand does have a lot of value and could generate a lot of money, which is how the non-enthusiast pure business people look at it. Bleeding off valuable assets (such as Hummer) should not be considered a good long term move.

Divisions such as Saturn (never turned a profit), Buick and Pontiac I'm sure are under scrutiny right now.

S.

[Scouts Out]

I had not bought a GM product because the first new car I bought was a GM and it had spent over 9 month out of the first two years in the garage. That is not counting all the small trips where the service departments tried to screw me. It was all fixed under warranty but they tried their best to screw me constantly by claiming my power window motor was broke (window was out of track), vibration in the front end was supposedly a worn clutch plate (bad rotor with a recall). Now the dodge dealer near her has tried on several occassions tried to con me into small repair which I knew were bull**** but anytime i need a repair they came thru. Add into that the horribly BLAND designs, I have not even seen a GM I liked until the H3. I sure hope the HUMMER service departmnet comes thru. I have nto seen allot of chat here about the service departments so I assume they have not screwed anyone (no one here seems shy about calling any one out).
They say the great motivators are sex (go figure) food, and life. Being they are fighting for their lives maybe it will get them motivated. I love my H3 so far

[DarthKarl]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dscott:
I have not even seen a GM I liked until the H3. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

x2

[f5fstop]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steve-SanJose-H3:
I hope GM doesn't sell Hummer, don't think that would be a good idea. But the Hummer line and brand does have a lot of value and could generate a lot of money, which is how the non-enthusiast pure business people look at it. Bleeding off valuable assets (such as Hummer) should not be considered a good long term move.

Divisions such as Saturn (never turned a profit), Buick and Pontiac I'm sure are under scrutiny right now.

S. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Saturn did turn a profit two years in a row, either 93 and 94 or 94 and 95; have to look at my 1040s to figure out exactly what year, but those two years did pay a hugh profit bonus to Saturn employees.
Saturn at this time has two of the hottest selling cars in the GM lineup. Hot enough for GM not to cancel the ION this year, and run it another year.
Doubt if Saturn will be dropped before Buick. From the new lineup of cars coming down for Saturn, things are looking up. That and Saturn has always led in CSI from JD Powers, many years, beating Lexus and Infinity.

[Steve - SanJose]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by f5fstop:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Steve-SanJose-H3:
I hope GM doesn't sell Hummer, don't think that would be a good idea. But the Hummer line and brand does have a lot of value and could generate a lot of money, which is how the non-enthusiast pure business people look at it. Bleeding off valuable assets (such as Hummer) should not be considered a good long term move.

Divisions such as Saturn (never turned a profit), Buick and Pontiac I'm sure are under scrutiny right now.

S. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Saturn did turn a profit two years in a row, either 93 and 94 or 94 and 95; have to look at my 1040s to figure out exactly what year, but those two years did pay a hugh profit bonus to Saturn employees.
Saturn at this time has two of the hottest selling cars in the GM lineup. Hot enough for GM not to cancel the ION this year, and run it another year.
Doubt if Saturn will be dropped before Buick. From the new lineup of cars coming down for Saturn, things are looking up. That and Saturn has always led in CSI from JD Powers, many years, beating Lexus and Infinity. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good to know Saturn turned a profit a couple of times in mid-90's but that's ancient history in the business world. Saturn is under scrutiny with a lot riding on some new hopefully promising models. I agree that Buick will be dropped before Saturn. Buick should have been dropped serveral years ago.

Nothing beats Hummer for instant brand recognition and niche marketing success, although at relatively low volumes.


S.

[f5fstop]

Hummer, it is one vehicle you can recognize from a distance; whereas with many other brands, it is hard to distinguish them when sitting behind them in traffic (cars/trucks and SUVs).

You don't think Saturn was a niche marketing success. Hell there are only 450 Saturn Retailers, yet the VUE has outsold the Pontiac Torrent and Chevy Equinox for the past six months.

Yes, I agree, Saturn has to turn around, but the new products such as the Sky, Aura, Outlook and the new VUE look damn good.

The biggest problem GM faces now, other than those outdated union contracts (to be exact...Job Bank), is to make people realize they have improved quality tremendously in the past few years. This is hard, people purchase a product, have great luck with it, and it is hard to drag them away from that product. (Heck, I will only purchase Toshiba TVs and DVDs due to never having a problem with one under 10 years old.)
Design of a car is rough, what someone likes, others love. I hate the 300M Chryslers, but it appears I'm in the minority. I will say that GM does seem to take the conservative approach in design, except for Vettes, Hummers and Cadillacs and the new Saturns arriving later this year.
Buick is a rough one, since for many years this was marketed at the older market, yet at one time they produced one of the best muscle cars made (Grand National). They can't seem to find their particular market, and that is what killed Oldsmobile.

I believe GM can pull out of this in the next year...IF, there is no extended strike next year. GM, as well as Ford and Chrysler, have to negotiate a contract that will abolish the Job Banks across the US and Canada. Failure to do that will result in all three of those companies going out of business. Last year, GM paid 800 million to workers who are not working.
I have a bad feeling though, the Union will strike and cause the company to file for bankruptcy, and that will be the end of everything GM makes. (Just my opinion, Wagner and I don't discuss these topics over lunch http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif)

Will GM turn around? I hope so, not only for my own good, but for the good of the US and my kids. People don't seem to understand what would happen if GM went under. It would be a large shock to the economy, and felt everywhere. Not only GM employees out of work, but suppliers, car dealerships, and the people who support those locations such as restaurants, stores, etc. (If GM went out of business, Detroit would be bankrupt a day later, and the state of MI would be close; course the state will raise taxes on all others.)

[Steve - SanJose]

Yea Hummer as a brand is pretty amazing. I'm actually from a Ford family (father retired from Ford Aero), and find little in their product mix to buy. I do like the Mustang GT. And I buy a lot of cars.

Unfortunately Saturn is marginal from a business standpoint. It WAS a niche success story, with a brilliant sales approach. In California we don't even know what a Pontiac Torrent or Chevy Equinox is, so a Vue outselling those duds is hardly noteworthy. I agree the VUE isn't bad. And I know what Skys/Auro's are derivatives/rehashes of. They are ok/so-so.

The union problem is huge for sure. And going bankrupt is a terrible alternative. But the best products can also help overcome the worst of business situations. The sooner GM makes the tough decisions, the sooner we can know that Hummer is secure.

I vote for the best products by putting my money down for the best vehicles available, just like you do with tvs/dvd players.

S.

[DarthKarl]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by f5fstop:
The biggest problem GM faces now, other than those outdated union contracts (to be exact...Job Bank), is to make people realize they have improved quality tremendously in the past few years. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You are right, that is the critical key. GM needs to have unique and appealing products which “forces” non-GM customers to buy that particular vehicle from them because it is the only place to get it. Then GM gets not only that particular sale, but gets its foot in the door for other future GM sales (assuming they can satisfy the customer on the quality and value of the initial purchase).

Hummer and Corvettes are, in my opinion, prime examples of this. These are unique brands which have performance and style characteristics which are not duplicated by any other vehicle. So if you have always wanted a “Vette-type” (or a “Hummer-type”) vehicle then there is only one place to go...GM. I don’t believe you can say the same thing about many other GM brands. So if GM is looking to downsize its product lines, this is one place where it’ll hurt them in the long run.

[XM DUDE]

GM needs to loose the union in a bad way.

[f5fstop]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I vote for the best products by putting my money down for the best vehicles available, just like you do with tvs/dvd players.

S. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I do, and it has been with GM, not only because I work for them, but because it has held true. The only bad GM car I have had since I went to work for them in 1990, was a Caterra; lucky for me, it was only for one-year.
The biggest problem cars I had from GM were the Vettes, and even there I can't complain, it was only a few times for each Vette (both with active handling/ABS problems).
When in TN, my neighbor had more problems with his Nissans than I did with my GM products or even my Jeeps (disconting bent rims, paint scratches, etc.).
Prior to working for GM, I still purchased GM's but was always issued a Ford to drive. I had a Crown Vic issued, and the first three months it was in service 6 times, after that initial period, it never broke again.
The largest thing Saturn had to offer was knowledge. Saturn did everything different than GM, and some of that technology transferred to GM, but most of it didn't. We fixed cars faster via the bulletin route, we changed production parts faster to produce less problems, but that knowledge has not progressed to GM due to the hatred within GM of Saturn employees.
The amazing thing about the VUE and ION is the number of GM employees that purchase the vehicles. Just a quick drive through the parking lots at GM and you will see that Saturn could be the number one seller.

[H3 Builder]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">GM needs to loose the union in a bad way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
You have to remember that GM agreed to the contracts and said that they would be good for GM. Yes, there will be changes comming and a lot of people are concerned at what will happen.

[Steve - SanJose]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by f5fstop:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I vote for the best products by putting my money down for the best vehicles available, just like you do with tvs/dvd players.

S. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And I do, and it has been with GM, not only because I work for them, but because it has held true. The only bad GM car I have had since I went to work for them in 1990, was a Caterra; lucky for me, it was only for one-year.
The biggest problem cars I had from GM were the Vettes, and even there I can't complain, it was only a few times for each Vette (both with active handling/ABS problems).
When in TN, my neighbor had more problems with his Nissans than I did with my GM products or even my Jeeps (disconting bent rims, paint scratches, etc.).
Prior to working for GM, I still purchased GM's but was always issued a Ford to drive. I had a Crown Vic issued, and the first three months it was in service 6 times, after that initial period, it never broke again.
The largest thing Saturn had to offer was knowledge. Saturn did everything different than GM, and some of that technology transferred to GM, but most of it didn't. We fixed cars faster via the bulletin route, we changed production parts faster to produce less problems, but that knowledge has not progressed to GM due to the hatred within GM of Saturn employees.
The amazing thing about the VUE and ION is the number of GM employees that purchase the vehicles. Just a quick drive through the parking lots at GM and you will see that Saturn could be the number one seller. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No doubt Big 3 quality and reliability is up in a big way. That's not the main problem. Consumers can feel and see the subpar engineering and materials in many of the mid-priced cars (not trucks). Things like cheap plasticky interiors, coarse pushrod motors, torque steer, poor ergonomics, lack of refinement, etc. And the rate of depreciation is terrible, much of which is the result of dumping these dogs on rental car fleets as part of the low margin business model.

We know GM is capable of building a decent vehicle, look at the H3. Engineered with both offroad capabilities and onroad refinement. The exterior and interior fit and finish is on par with anything in this price range. For those of us that have owned and driven the best of BOTH imports AND domestics, the H3 is something else.


Yea and the NUMMI parking lot here in Fremont is loaded with Toyota's plus some Pontiac Matrix's. I am not impressed that a lot of GM employees buy GM cars, I expect they would.

GM's turnaround is important for the US economy and Hummer's future for sure, that's why it's somewhat relevant on the Hummer forum.


S.

[Desert Dan]

Why don't they (GM or somebody) put nice cars in rental fleets to intice buyers?

After renting a great car for business they would spread the word and say ...I had this great XXX and its was fun, sporty ergonomicaly good etc.

Ask for a decent upgrade all you travelers

[XM DUDE]

It is the cost of the union that is now killing GM. Drastic changes have to be made to save GM as every day I read or hear about how GM is in serious trouble, it has me worried as a buyer, are they going to be around in 10 years?
GM is cutting prices, employees plants ect, while Toyota is bulding more plants right here in the U.S.A.
the new Tundra will be bult right in Texas where trucks rule, it has me concirned.