TT4?

[Tom S]

What is so wrong about TT4. I test drove one when they first came out and the salesmen said it would out profrome any of the older trucks off road. I never really got a indept tech talk about TT4. This comes up when i have found a really nice yellow 2000 HMCO for 40 grand. For almost te same price there is a nice 98 hard top, which i have heard is the cream of the crop until 03 when the TT4 setup was stopped. Whats is your opinion on this.

[Tom S]

What is so wrong about TT4. I test drove one when they first came out and the salesmen said it would out profrome any of the older trucks off road. I never really got a indept tech talk about TT4. This comes up when i have found a really nice yellow 2000 HMCO for 40 grand. For almost te same price there is a nice 98 hard top, which i have heard is the cream of the crop until 03 when the TT4 setup was stopped. Whats is your opinion on this.

[Webman]

Tom:

The big problem with TT4 is when you hit your brakes it disables the traction control system. The Differential are different than older trucks and do not allow you to BTM the truck. In 2003 they did not eliminate TT4, they just altered the diffs so that you could use BTM, TT4 or also the rear locker. The best off all three worlds.

I have seen many talented drivers use TT4 with out a problem. In order to use it correctly you must keep your rpm steady and not jump on the gas. Many off the hardcore H1 guys have added lockers to the front and rear.

If you dont plan on doing heavy duty off roading I would go with the TT4 truck.

Mark Weber
Webman
www.wisconsinhummerowners.com (http://www.wisconsinhummerowners.com)

[Buckeye Hummer]

Well said webman. I'm still working on a front locker for my '03, any ideas?

Jason

[Webman]

Thanks Jason.

I think you will have to wait until Eaton makes them available. Other then that I am not sure where you could get them. Your other choices are Detroit or ARB. But I would not want two different lockers.

I have not found any situation where I couldnt get over things by not having them.

Being that you have an 03 you have the ability to lock your truck and or use BTM.

If it were me I would wait for the Eaton after market to come out. Not sure when that will be but I have heard they are working on it.

Mark Weber
Webman
www.wisconsinhummerowners.com (http://www.wisconsinhummerowners.com)

[Buckeye Hummer]

That makes sense to me. I heard that AMG effectively releases Eaton from some contract for the front lockers at which time they'll be available to everyone. Currenlty they are only an option on the '04. I know you know this already.

BTM comment, I've been able to get over everything with my rear locked, however, it would be nice to lock the front (BTM) to keep my rear treads from getting chewed up further. Does this sound right to you: Brake on hard, throttle to about 1200-1500 RPM, slowly let off the brake when you feel the front lock? Any more detail from a Pro?

Jason

[Webman]

Jason:

I dont have a rear locker so I cant speak for using BTM along with the locker.

As far as BTM goes. Your thoughts sre correct. You Can feel the truck begin to crawl. I dont think though that I have ever looked at my engine RPM while using BTM. I am no expert on this I just do it by feel. I am just very careful never to let my wheels spin.

You should try using BTM without your locker on and see how it feels if you have not already.

The one thing I have to think is BTM has to be hard on the drive train. I think this is the best argument for lockers. I did break the output shaft on my front diff once while using BTM. Im sure the shaft had been stressed before this but I believe BTM is what broke it. If you go to the following link you can see a video of the breakage, It is at the end of the video.

http://www.wisconsinhummerowners.com/Secret.mov

It is about 115 Megs.

It also has a scene that shows a Humvee with ARB lockers in the front and back crawl up a pretty steep rock face.

Mark Weber
Webman
www.wisconsinhummerowners.com (http://www.wisconsinhummerowners.com)

[Axleman]

Having a different locker in front and rear is not really a problem should you choose not to wait until the Eaton E Lockers are available. An ARB in the front would work fine, but it's either fully locked or completely open, no BTMing. A Detroit SofLocker is a good choice, but in your case you would want it in the rear and put your ELocker in the front. If you live in an area that gets a lot of snow and ice, the Detroit may tend to make driving on the streets a little more interesting.

Scot Smith
1994 HMC4, Locked
"They're right, Wider IS Better..."
Southern Axle & Steering (http://www.southernaxle.com)Remanufactured Driveline & Steering Parts for Hummers

[Joe]

knock on wood, I have not had a problem with TT4. Plenty of rock crawling and the like. Had a slight pulse rate jump once thanks to ABS though. Coming down a steep trail with no place to go and the ABS let the truck go a little further than I would have liked.

Love to get my hands on the elockers. Problem is I keep hearing available soon, seems like for the last year soon.

2001 H1 Opentop

Former 03 H2 Adventure Series

http://homepage.mac.com/babiak1/

[JSA_3]

So, should I have not purchased an '02 w/TT4?

Seems to work very well, though front/rear lockers would be the ultimate.

Webman, are you saying it is not possible to use BTM w/TT4 trucks?

John

----------
'02 HMCO

[Buckeye Hummer]

Webman and Axle,

Thanks for the locker tips. I'm looking in to them.

Webman, nice videos. Thanks for taking the time to post.

Jason

[Axleman]

Joe & John:
That is one of the issues with the system. ABS triggering when you don't want/need it to. TT4 seems to work OK on high traction areas like Moab, etc. Over here where we have mud, loose dirt, gravel, not as well. There were several times over our New years trips where the TT4 trucks could not climb obstacles that the old ones did fairly easily. Driver experience wasn't an issue. Complexity is another issue. I have seem TT4 fail numerous times on the trail for one reason or another, usually due to a sensor that has shifted or become caked with dirt. When that happens, you can still BTM, but it is not nearly as effective as the old trucks because of design differences in the differential carrier. Check the Hummer Info Database on humvee.net for more technical info.

That being said, BTM has it's drawbacks as well. Increased brake wear, increased strain on the driveline, still not 100% as capable as a locker.

Many BTMers will say that BTM has gotten them through most every obstacle they wanted to cross, but everyone I know that has put lockers in (including myself) hasn't regretted it.

Scot Smith
1994 HMC4, Locked
"They're right, Wider IS Better..."
Southern Axle & Steering (http://www.southernaxle.com)Remanufactured Driveline & Steering Parts for Hummers

[JSA_3]

Is the Traction Control system in the H2 similar to or the same as TT4?

I had and H2 and without the rear dif locked, it behaved very similar to the TT4, supposedly braking the wheel that was spinning. And it was evident when it was operating.

I have not had the opportunities yet to really get a handle on the H1's TT4.

----------
'02 HMCO

[Axleman]

From what I understand, the system is the same in the way it operates, but probably not the same components.

Scot Smith
1994 HMC4, Locked
"They're right, Wider IS Better..."
Southern Axle & Steering (http://www.southernaxle.com)Remanufactured Driveline & Steering Parts for Hummers

[alecs wife]

http://www.amghummer.com/features/EatonLockers/EatonLockers.htm

locker info

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[HUMMERDOGG]

These may be stupid questions so forgive me for my ignorance regarding the H1. I do not have an H1 but am really interested in getting one in the next year or two. There appears to be two issues with the TT4 hummers- the ABS and the type/ratio of differentials; therefore my questions are:
1)Is there any way to "retrofit" the differentials in a TT4 hummer (2000, 2001, 2002) to replicate the type/ratio that is found in a 1998 hummer or the more improved ratios that are found in the 2003 and 2004 models?... and,
2)Can't you pull a fuse to disable the ABS when offroading? and does this have any undesireable effects while offroading?

If both of these questions can be answered with a yes, haven't I, in effect, made my future 2000/2001/2003 as effective an offroader as the 1998 or 2003 versions?

I look forward to your responses and again, would like to preface these questions with the comment that I know absolutely nothing about the H1 but am working on my knowlede of them.

Again, Thanks for ya'lls help...

-HUMMERDOGG
S&B MEMBER 2003
TROLL POACHER
TROLL TAXIDERMIST

[ssgharkness020147]

HUMMERDOGG,
I have a biased opinon about the 98, seeing as I have one. I dont think you can go wrong with a 98, but here are your other options. There is no way to retrofit the diffs with the torque bias diffs found on the 98. The 98 is regarded as one of the best years for the H1's off-road capabilities, however you can put front and rear locking diffs in an ABS TT4 truck, and it is just as and in a lot of cases more capable then the 98. There is a fuse that can be pulled to disable the ABS, I dont have the ABS system so I am not very familiar on how to go about diabiling ABS. All pulling the fuse will do is allow your brakes to lock up, that is good for some situations and not so ideal for others.

Carey Harkness
1998 HMCO

[Joe]

well, let me throw out some thoughts. I have an 01 TT4/ABS truck and off-road a lot.

I do not believe it is possible to swap diffs, at least without a great deal of expensive and effort that would certainly make in pointless. The best option as mentioned is installing lockers to enhance the capabilities off-road. There are several options. I have been waiting to see if the eaton e-locker becomes available as an aftermarket kit. Hasn't happened yet. This is probably the best solution to improve capability of a TT4 truck

As for the ABS. Not sure about pulling the fuse. The question always is does the ABS fuse also power "other" functions that are critical. The real issue with ABS is on step declines where sliding off a ledge or like presents an issue. I for one have only had the ABS become an issue once on a hill decline. I stopped in plenty of time but it is a very un-nerving experience. Depending on where you wheel the ABS issue may never be an issue. Most of the concerns I've seen are from the folks in the Western States where steep decents are common. In the east is comes up but not often as an issue.

Bottom line is I would explore the locker option and think you will find your truck more than capable to meet all challenges.

2001 H1 Opentop

Former 03 H2 Adventure Series

Homepage:
http://www.hummerh1.net

[Buckeye Hummer]

I haven't experienced any problems with ABS yet and frequent steep climbs and descents. I have found that the gearing has been sufficient to crawl down a hill in Low Locked 1st gear, sometimes too slow. Even with ABS my truck did slide on this decline (they locked) so I hit the gas to correct the rear and the truck righted itself. I've been out with a number of 99-02 H1's and they have all done fine with exception to a couple running with GSA's that would slip going uphill. My '03 has rear locker that has been sufficient for everything I have encountered thus far. It is my opinion that the tires are probably more important than anything and should be considered before lockers. Here's a pic of the slope I was slipping on:

[Joe]

Tires! Your not kidding that Tires make a huge difference. This is the one thing, and easy one, that can make a HUGE difference.

Got to see this first hand during a recent trail ride. There was a fair amount of snow on the ground and one H1 had GSA's. Everyone plowed through all day long except for this poor bastard (jk http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif ). Scrap the GSA ASAP if you plan any off-roading.

2001 H1 Opentop

Former 03 H2 Adventure Series

Homepage:
http://www.hummerh1.net

[cinci]

Buckeye,

Are you changing your mind on a front locker http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif Lockers aren't always the answer, different techniques work in different situations but it is nice to have that additional option.

Thanks,
David
Black H2

[Buckeye Hummer]

It's on my development list for the super Hummer but I did have some priorities. First was to get strong, steel rockers to protect the doors (done) second was to improve my communications with CB, GPS, Sat. radio (done). The unexpected third was new tires (done). Fourth is getting the appropriate spare (this week). Last but not least would be the front locker but it's my understanding that the Elockers are not yet available for the H1 so the waiting game begins.

So far there is nothing a front locker would have helped me with but there's a first for everything.

[cinci]

Buckeye,

I have been looking into GPS and Garmin, do you have a preference or could you share your experiance?

Thanks,
David
Black H2

[Buckeye Hummer]

I have a street pilot III, which I love. The unit has been flawless particularly when I moved to an external antenna, which is necessary in an H1. I'm sure there are newer models now but just be sure to get one with a large enough screen, otherwise you'll be struggling to see it.

As far as brands go I would say Garmin is the way to go. They have a very good track record.

[Buckeye Hummer]

BTW, are you familiar with Parrillo Performance in Cinci? I used to talk to him and train there every once in a while.

[cinci]

No I'm not famillar with them. Are they a software company?

I was looking at getting a street pilot III but with the newer versions out I am getting confused. I still think the III may be the best value.

Thanks,
David
Black H2

[Axleman]

The reason the older diffs can't be retro'ed into the newer TT4 trucks is due to the severe handling problems that the higher bias ratio creates in the TT4/ABS system.

BTW, I just installed a full-time mechanical locker in the front of mine. Elockers are for sissies! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif In spite of what you may think, in the heavy-ass Hummer, they actually work pretty well and don't affect street handling much at all, at least in non-icy driving conditions.

[ssgharkness020147]

Scot forgot to mention that he can SELL you the aussie lockers that he has in his truck. Or he can sell you a re-manufactured diff with the locker already installed. Because of the icy roads up here in Wisconsin, it would not be in the best intrest of other cars on the road for me to have mechanical lockers in my truck. I'd love to get electric lockers someday, but first I am going to have to talk to Scot about getting whatever that clicking noise is that I am hearing from the front drivers side halfshaft of my truck.

[Buckeye Hummer]

Axle, Us sissies like buttons, the more the better http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Axleman]

Well... I didn't actually forget, I just like to be informative in my postings, rather than be a pushy salesman. Thanks for the plug! BTW, if you can be a little patient, we will be able to do something about the Elocker in the not-too-distant future...

Buck, we are working on a new product. It's a panel that you install in your dash that has about 25 buttons and lights on it. They don't do much but you sissies may find it entertaining and satisfying! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Buckeye Hummer]

Hmmm, sounds like something leftover from the Star Trek set. I'll take 3. Does anything happen when I push them http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[HUMMERDOGG]

How hard is it to retrofit the newer dif gear ratios on the TT4/ABS trucks (read 2003) into a 1999 or 2000 TT4/ABS truck. As I have read here, the issue with the earlier trucks was the ratios in the diffs was too low and was increased in 2002.

And again, thanks for all the insight...

[ssgharkness020147]

25 buttons and lights. Wow. If there is one thing that a HUMMER cannot have enough, of it BUTTONS and SWITCHES. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Buck, we are working on a new product. It's a panel that you install in your dash that has about 25 buttons and lights on it. They don't do much but you sissies may find it entertaining and satisfying!

[Axleman]

HummerDogg,

To retrofit the center would require having someone that knows how to set up a diff. However, I could build you the late style TT4 diff assemblies for about $1500 each and then you could just swap out the whole thing.

[HUMMERDOGG]

Axleman and others in the know-

OK, so if my math serves me right, I can buy a 2001 Hard Top for roughly 50K to 60K (according to NADA Low Retail to High Retail), pay $3K for your new diffs with the 2003 diff gear ratios in them and the only difference between my 2001 and a 2002/2003 Hummer would be: the new steering wheel (would get an aftermarket one anyways), revised seatbelts and retractors (what is the change?), newly designed doghouse console on the passenger side for increased passenger room (who the hell cares?-the wife is small enough as it is), LED marker lights (looking at them-not that big of a deal-I like the older version anyways), express down driver's side window (should be able to rewire with some sort of module to add this), and a larger radio face (please tell me how this improves anything-seems easy enough to have a car audio shop refab the front of the doghouse... plus going with aftermarket headunit and would probably not matter too much anyway)?

Seems like it would be worth the money than to purchase a 2001 and just do the diff swap out using your rebuilt diffs, buy a new MOMO steering wheel, put a DVD/CD/MP3/Navigation Headunit in, and rewire the driver's side window for the express down feature. Let me know if I am missing anything on changes between the 2001, 2002, and 2003.

What I would really like is to get a 2001 Hard Top and get a Slantback top for it. Let me know your thoughts on the slant back tops (Cal-Gold?, etc...)

And last question for now: How long do you think until you could get the elockers and what would they cost to add to the package for the front and the back diffs?

Again, I appreciate your feedback and look forward to hearing from you...

[ssgharkness020147]

The California Gold slantback kit is a well made unit. As it should be for four grand. I have heard that they can be kind of hard to get mounted initially, but once its on its not coming off. The only thing that I do not know about is if they are waterproof. That was an issue with the factory slantbacks, and I think that Cal-Gold made the slantback for the HUMMER factory models.

[Axleman]

Time frame on the aftermarket Eaton Locker is sometime late this year, last I heard. Estimated price (exchange) is $1500-$1800, so if you're inclined to go this route, it would be worth the wait.

On slantback kits, remember that the factory slantbacks were open inside, while with the aftermarket kits the bed and the cab are still separate. Rear visibility with the aftermarket kits is rather poor, but they look cool.

Sounds like you have a good plan. Buy one that's a few years old and save the other money for adding goodies.

[Buckeye Hummer]

Sweet! I can't wait to get the Eaton E-locker mainly because it'll be better than Axles http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif with more buttons too!

[HUMMERDOGG]

Visibility??? What is that? I've got limo tint on all my windows on the H2. I can't see ****. Anyways, I was going to remove the back window on the Hardtop once I got the Slantback on and mount some subs right there facing into the cab... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

So, please, don't tell me there is any difficulty in removing the back window. If so, please tell me now before I move forward with the idea...

[Axleman]

You could always look for a factory slantback. There were only 39 or so made, but there is one for sale from time to time.

I haven't ever removed the rear window, so I don't know how hard that is. I suspect that it wouldn't be too bad.

Just for Buck, we will make a special Elocker version with lots of buttons.
One button to actuate the locker, one to override the Low Lock Only function, one to override the MPH limitation, and one to turn on the massage unit in the seat bottom. Of course a full array of lights and a lovely female computer voice will annunciate the activation of each function. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif