??? better than stock tires for moab ???

[NEOCON1]

well i need advice from you guys with rock wheelin expierience i added the under carriage protection but lost a good inch of ground clearance . i want to put these on my stock wheels they are 315 / 75 / 16 "dunlop mud rover" and measure about 34.5 inches overall they will get me the 1 inch back , but is this a good tread design for moab or do you suggest something else ? sorry the pic is small , i also plan to turn the torsion bars one full turn and have an alignment done .

[MarK M]

they look like they can perform well.

Havent' really read much on Dunlops but cant imagine them being too different from the norm that people are using.

I myself am going with the toyo open country. Just cause i like how the tire looks on the H3.

[nmikes]

I asked Ken the exact same thing in a PM and he said the type of rock their is pretty sticky, others have gone with stock tires and not had problems. I was thinking of going with one of these... but not sure, still need to do a find on them to see whats been mentioned about them.

http://www.goodyeartires.com/goodyeartireselector/displ...mrktarea=Light+Truck (http://www.goodyeartires.com/goodyeartireselector/display_tire.jsp?prodline=Wrangler+MT%2FR&mrktarea=Light+Truck)

or these... wich look very similar to the dunlops your thinking about. (just narrower I think)

http://www.coopertires.com/us/en/ProductDetails.asp?Pro...le=Light+Truck+Tires (http://www.coopertires.com/us/en/ProductDetails.asp?ProdType=LtTruck&id=28&title=Light+Truck+Tires)

[nmikes]

crap, those coopers have been discontinued...

[NEOCON1]

hey mark thanks are you mounting on stock wheels ? and are these the toyos your lookin at they are GNARLY !!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
i want to set these up as my beater wheels and tires i have already scuffed the center cap on one of them , i have no concern about road noise http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif and will paint or have powder coated later .
for normal use http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif i have another plan still in the works the wheels i ordered on dec. 27th wont be in for another couple weeks ( i have heard that so many times now http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ) and will mount BFG AT/KO's on them for wheelin where i dont have to be woried about tearin them up , and will have these for tearin it up http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

i like these that your getting http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[NEOCON1]

yea hum4me and babhumv got their coopers just in time and they work great i wheeled with bab in rocks and hum4 in sand http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif they look good on the stock wheels http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[NEOCON1]

nmikes , you can probably track down the coopers they may be hard to find but they are still out there , might take some hunting , so many choices http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[DRTYFN]

The tires that come with the Adventure Series will be fine. But if you really feel you must upgrade, go with the TOYO MTs or BGF AT.

[MarK M]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
hey mark thanks are you mounting on stock wheels ? and are these the toyos your lookin at they are GNARLY !!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
i want to set these up as my beater wheels and tires i have already scuffed the center cap on one of them , i have no concern about road noise http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif and will paint or have powder coated later .
for normal use http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif i have another plan still in the works the wheels i ordered on dec. 27th wont be in for another couple weeks ( i have heard that so many times now http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ) and will mount BFG AT/KO's on them for wheelin where i dont have to be woried about tearin them up , and will have these for tearin it up http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

i like these that your getting http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

those are them. When looking for tires i look for road noise and i think the toyos were manageable. They are pricey though!

My other options were BFG M/T but those were loud according to the specs i read. It rated a 4 in noise from a scale of 1-10. 1 being bad, 10 being good.

My other option is what everyone is opting for the BFG A/T. They performed well at the last NCHG i went to on someones rig. But they dont have that big meaty look to them which i'm going after.

BTW, i would be getting new wheels. the Helo Maax 7, love the look on that wheel.

[shhrtbs]

toyos are quiet, you'll never know you have tires at all

[MarK M]

Toyo's it is then!

[KenP]

Originally posted by MarK M:
Toyo's it is then! SOLD!!!!! Congrats on your purchase. Do you need the account number to send the money to? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[HummerNewbie]

Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MarK M:
Toyo's it is then! SOLD!!!!! Congrats on your purchase. Do you need the account number to send the money to? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
And an address to ship them to http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NEOCON1]

thanks guys , just ship them to my house http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif and send the money to ken http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[timgco]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
thanks guys , just ship them to my house http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif and send the money to ken http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

NEO- That's BS on your rims. I looked at geting the same ones and are in stock at 4WP last time I checked. Someone better be giving you the best price in the US for waiting that long. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NEOCON1]

hey tim , yea man im gettin played like a fiddle by my vendor , they are tellin me that the teflon in 17 x 9 are a national back order item http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif i went ahead and pulled the trigger on the toyos 315 / 75 / 16 they will be here tomorrow so should have pics up this weekend http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif thanx everyone http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[NEOCON1]

they are on http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

i only have 50 miles on them but they ride great http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[NEOCON1]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif sorry no daylite shots yet just got it together tonight

[NEOCON1]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif we may not get any sun until sunday might have to find some mud http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NEOCON1]

last one in the dark and hail http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by shhrtbs:
toyos are quiet, you'll never know you have tires at all

hey shhrtbs your not joking these are great no different than stock maybe even quieter http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[westhillsat]

Very nice, lookin good Neo!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[KenP]

Freaking GREAT stickers!!! The tires are ok, too. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NEOCON1]

yea the stickers rock http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif thanks west and ken http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[timgco]

LOOKS SWEET NEO!

[Edspad]

Nice....hows is the fit ?

[NEOCON1]

got some day shots

[NEOCON1]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif bigA$$ spare http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by Edspad:
Nice....hows is the fit ?

hey Eds , the fit is very tight but clears http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif i drove the course at the dealer today both sides h3-2 and h1 side of course . had three people watching for rubbing went up and down the large step one front wheel at a time did about 10 times everything clears with fronts straight and turned maybe half way to lock ? , maybe alittle rubbing if i crank wheels hard but havent tested that yet . will try to get pics of some flexing tomorrow . stay tuned , also i have not cranked my torsion bars, i may just leave it stock at stink bug stance i kinda like the desert assault look http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[MarK M]

whats the official tire size?

[NEOCON1]

these are the 315 / 75 / 16 toyo mt i saw three trucks with 315's today at the dealer they were all on 20" wheels they dont look this big . http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif but they are selling them with 315's and no torsion bar adjustments http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[MarK M]

im gonna go with 35's as well! but i think, i'm gonna lift mine already. Went to Hollister today and was afraid to do many obsticles because of ground clearance.

lift and 35's should do the trick.

Neo, with just 35's did you increase your hieght? if so... by how much?

[NEOCON1]

i got a good inch + of ground clearance . this was my reason , i added the Under carriage protection last week and it makes you loose a good inch "midship" . i wanted to get back to the clearance im familliar with and want to have good protection for utah .

if i have a rubbing issue the torsion bar adjustment with a 1" longer bumpstop will be my next step but for now seems fine . first i was told on the phone dealer would do torsion adjustment , after driving the course we decided not to one tech brought up the point of when increasing wheel travel you can actually make things worse . wheel can build up more force on upstroke because it has a longer range of travel and can strike harder .

for now i will keep stock setting . HummBebe just did the torsion crank on hers , so will wait to see how she reports in .

[MarK M]

thanks for the update!

[Edspad]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif bigA$$ spare http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif
NIce Nice Nice..geeze and to think i only have 5K on my tires http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif
Arent You going to make a run to Moab sometime soon? that will be a good test..
I will see HummBebe soon, i might just copy her if the results are positive. Maybe she will Do my adjustment for me http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NEOCON1]

got to do some more testing today http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

from the front http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[NEOCON1]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

front stuffed http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

rear http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

the one concern is this small plastic flange i think i will cut it back with a razor knife http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NEOCON1]

here you see 33's on a 20 inch rim compare to my 35's on the stock 16's http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NEOCON1]

compare tires here http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[NEOCON1]

a few more http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[NEOCON1]

nice shot of U/C pro.

[NEOCON1]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif this plastic flange is the only thing thats close to rubbing http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Ipedog]

Hey Neo -

Where did you get them and how much? (if you don't mind http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif)

[Photom]

They look great! are those mounted on stock wheels without a lift kit on your H3? How's the clearance when off roading? It looks a little tight!

[HummerJim]

Those Toyo MTs look great on your machine. I really like the look, that might be my next set only slightly smaller. I think being quiet is a HUGE bonus for that aggressive of a tread. Your wheelwell clearance doesn't look that bad, just makes sure you twist the suspension to its limit (toughest test for rear end), cut the wheels hard all the way in a steep descending position(always toughest on the front end), and climb it to make sure nothing rubs. I've always been partial to the Toyo MTs and Goodyear MTRs. I can tell you from my experience with them on two vehicles the Goodyear MTRs perform well with bullet proof sidewalls, but are loud, even when they are aired up to street pressures, so the Toyos will probably be my next tires after these ATSs.

[Sewie]

Looks awesome Neo! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[timgco]

NEO- MORE GREAT PICS!

now, on that little plastic thing you want to cut with a razor knife.....

I hit on mine. That's the only thing I hit with the 35's. There is metal behind that plastic. So, I'm not sure what it's for, but it may be part of a support for something???

[ETD]

Nice tires. I too am going round n' round about which tires to upgrade to. To go USA or Nipponese. Procomps (USA) are not highly regarded on another thread. Mickey T's and Super Swampers maybe the USA's only hope (not counting the super specialized, read $$$$, tires). Toyo's and BFG's are the strong Nipponese contenders. Did you look into any of the USA candidates? Ahh. Choices, choices.

[MyxH3]

Do those have the triple side wall or just a dual sidewall?

[NEOCON1]

Where did you get them and how much?


hey Ipe , i got them thru big O . they are my service and tire vendor on my light duty trucks so i got a pretty good deal 5 mounted out the door $1250.00 not too bad considering they list over 300 apiece . look around and try to check americas tire and tire pros too have seen real good prices from them online . they will show list price and then usually an option for local dealer price . the dealer price should allways be lower . try to pit one against the other in a bidding war or just throw a price out and try dealing from there .

[NEOCON1]

? It looks a little tight!

photon , yes they are on stock wheels 16 x 7.5 have only tested on the course at hummer . i am going on a local hummer happening on the 25th of this month it will be the first real world test then moab next month so will have lots of test info in about 5 weeks . yes they are 3 ply sidewalls and heres some more info and yes they are very tight http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

The Open Country M/T is designed for full-size pickups of vehicle-oriented enthusiasts who require extra ground clearance, load-carrying capacity and off-road capability without sacrificing on-road performance.

The M/T incorporates new production technology for unheard of levels of uniformity to help assure uncompromised control, handling and fun with ultimate style




- Agressive, attack tread design with hook-shaped blocks

- Scalloped shoulder blocks

- Tread block stabilizer

- Deep siping in the tread blocks

- Open shoulder design



- Aggressive, attack tread design

- Over-the-shoulder tread

- Open shoulder design

- Black outline serrated lettering

- Rim protector in lower sidewall



- DSOC II™ Technology

- High turn-up, 3-ply casing

- Two wide steel belts

- Two spiral wound nylon cap plies

- High bead filler



- Aggressive, attack tread design

- Over-the-shoulder tread

- Cap/base construction

- Tread block stabilizers

- Open, scalloped shoulder blocks

- Deep siping in the tread blocks



- DSOC II™ Technology

- Computer-optimized tread design

- Advanced production technology for unheard of levels of uniformity

- Tread elements shaped and staggered for reduced noise

- 3-ply polyester casing

- Single strand, jointless bead wire construction



- High turn-up, 3-ply polyester casing

- Two spiral wound nylon cap plies

- Two wide steel belts

- Cap/base construction

- Bruise and abraision resistant sidewall compound

[NEOCON1]

I really like the look, that might be my next set only slightly smaller.


hey jim , sounds like you have a great plan . this tire in a 33x16 would probably be perfect for you .



<span class="ev_code_GREEN">!!!!! for those considering what i have done !!!!!</span>



i need to let everyone know if they feel their truck is underpowered on highway , or they like to drive 80 mph , or still want to get close to 20 mpg , are worried about alittle tire rub , or thinks their truck shifts too much on hills . THIS MOD IS NOT FOR YOU . but if you dont mind cruisin at 65 to 70 , down shifting on hills and having a little rubbing in extreem conditions , and dont mind trimming a little plastic (no need to if not going extreem wheelin) , then this mod is for you http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

thanx sewie feel free to use these pics bro http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by timgco:
NEO- MORE GREAT PICS!

now, on that little plastic thing you want to cut with a razor knife.....

I hit on mine. That's the only thing I hit with the 35's. There is metal behind that plastic. So, I'm not sure what it's for, but it may be part of a support for something???

hey tim thanks man , how bad are yours rubbing on that little piece ? i have only gotten very close to touching it so far . i noticed the second piece today while under there . they have a fastner away from the flange and i could add an extra screw or bolt after i cut it . the platic raps around but you can make it flap with your hand so not to secure . i think the plasic piece keeps mud from going between the lower plastic rocker piece and the metal piece behind it , i thought it was thicker plastic behind there i have only reached in not gotten up in there yet but seemed flexable . i will keep updating when i trim it . i need to research that better , i can try to get an exploded view of rocker assembly and see how those pieces go together . stay tuned http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif we may end up trimmin these in the parking lot of the GONZO LOL http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ketcat]

I'm mounting up my MT/R 315's tomorrow. Will post pic's then.

[NEOCON1]

Did you look into any of the USA candidates? Ahh. Choices, choices.

hey ETD , i looked around quite a while , was getting bfg at's to put on some wheels i really dug but wanted more sidewall tread . after three months of waiting for wheels i decided to get these and put on stock wheels i am so happy with the look i will stick with it and get my stock wheels blacked out .

timgco , i cancelled my american racing order today and got my money back they were playin me like you said http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by ketcat:
I'm mounting up my MT/R 315's tomorrow. Will post pic's then.

hey Ket , awsome man you will be lovin them http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[NEOCON1]

Originally posted by MyxH3:
Do those have the triple side wall or just a dual sidewall?

triple threat man . they are all about being tough at 65 psi max rating one tire will support 3,860 lbs freakin awsome , you could put an H2 on your roof and you wont pop these http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[westhillsat]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Where did you get them and how much?


hey Ipe , i got them thru big O . they are my service and tire vendor on my light duty trucks so i got a pretty good deal 5 mounted out the door $1250.00 not too bad considering they list over 300 apiece . look around and try to check americas tire and tire pros too have seen real good prices from them online . they will show list price and then usually an option for local dealer price . the dealer price should allways be lower . try to pit one against the other in a bidding war or just throw a price out and try dealing from there . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I called my local dealer today, he said he could get them for $249.50., forgot to ask
him how much more for mounting.

I might check on the 285's...

[NEOCON1]

west , great price i think since you drive so much and so far from your dealer the 33's would probably be a better choice for your needs .

i cant post this enough its a big factor to consider on the 315's .

<span class="ev_code_RED">before doing this mod consider these things</span>

i need to let everyone know if they feel their truck is underpowered on highway , or they like to drive 80 mph , or still want to get close to 20 mpg , are worried about alittle tire rub , or thinks their truck shifts too much on hills .
<span class="ev_code_RED">this mod is not for you</span> .
but if you dont mind cruisin at 65 to 70 , down shifting on hills and having a little rubbing in extreem conditions , and dont mind trimming a little plastic (no need to if not going extreem wheelin) , then this mod is for you http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif.

[NoMoGMPG]

I like the way they look on your truck, Neocon.

Very nice.

[westhillsat]

Called local dealer back today about the 285's.
He called their distribution warehouse, on national backorder until at least early June. Other sites on internet show backordered http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Found a set of four on the internet for less then local price including shipment. Called their 800 # and asked if they had any more, they said we have 6 I said I want 5 of them http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Should be here by Monday http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

thanks NoMo http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif my truck says it wants to grow up to be like yours http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

West , great man you will be very happy with the 33's they will be awsome http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . man i didant think they would be that hard to find , great work tracking them down , at least you dont have to wait for these as long as the wait for your truck http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif we are getting closer to the big week http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif oh yea http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif funny how we are all moding our trucks for this http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Adam^_^]

Originally posted by westhillsat:
Called local dealer back today about the 285's.
He called their distribution warehouse, on national backorder until at least early June. Other sites on internet show backordered http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Found a set of four on the internet for less then local price including shipment. Called their 800 # and asked if they had any more, they said we have 6 I said I want 5 of them http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Should be here by Monday http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

i want i want! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

pics plz http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[westhillsat]

I called the local guy back and asked if he had any problem installing them. He said no, but asked where did you find some? I told him they are coming from Arkansas!

Hope to have them on sometime next week. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

This truck is getting to be an expensive hobby http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Oh, I didn't tell the wife about the new tires yet. heh http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NEOCON1]

hey west did you find them at that BIBLE and TIRE store from the red neck thread LOL http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

west tell the wife they came for your neighbor but wasnt home , but you think they would look better on your truck http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[westhillsat]

Amen bro http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

These will be nice!

[NEOCON1]

AMEN BROTHER WEST


church of HUMMER http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[ketcat]

I put the Goodyear MT/R 315's on this week. They only rub the front sway bar at full lock, power is down a little and they make more noise but are much better off road. Unfortunately I think I bent something because the alignment is way off after the trip. Got the pic to upload.

[NEOCON1]

oh man , sounds like you were getting crazy http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif let us know what got bent and if do to increased tire size or just going too fast http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[westhillsat]

Ok, got them mounted today. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[westhillsat]

These are the Toyo Open Country M/T 285 75 16

[westhillsat]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[NEOCON1]

SSSWWWEEEETTT BBRRROOOOO http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif they look awsome west http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif congrats now add them puppys to your sig http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

you said MOUNT http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[westhillsat]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
SSSWWWEEEETTT BBRRROOOOO http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif they look awsome west http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif congrats now add them puppys to your sig http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Thanks Neo and added to sig http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Nav4-NEOCON1]

hi west nice tires , looking forward to meeting you and the family in a few weeks .

[westhillsat]

Originally posted by Nav4-NEOCON1:
hi west nice tires , looking forward to meeting you and the family in a few weeks .

Hi

Thanks, its all Neo's fault for getting the bigger ones first http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

We look forward to meeting you too!!
Moab is getting sooo close now http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[kennyosemite]

Thanks to Neo for the great insight on the Toyos. After reading yesterday's thread, I called the dealer I ordered my truck from and told him to switch the tires out. After turning in the Bridgestone 33's that will arrive with the Adventure package, the total of 5 Toyo tires, including mounting, balancing and torsion bar adjustment, will run me $1075 (i.e. $215 each). Schweeeet. I can't WAIT for this beast . . . 4-5 more weeks. THE SUSPENSE IS KILLING ME http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[NEOCON1]

i do love those sidewalls http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif the wait is the hardest part http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[westhillsat]

Toyo should thank this forum http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[NEOCON1]

they could give a set to Lootie http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

thanks . Christmas again just got home and my lev-o-gauge and hand held C.B. arrived today http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[westhillsat]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
thanks . Christmas again just got home and my lev-o-gauge and hand held C.B. arrived today http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Good deal http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

My gauge is supposed to arrive Monday.

[Sewie]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
thanks . Christmas again just got home and my lev-o-gauge and hand held C.B. arrived today http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

Now you just have to figure out where to mount them. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

i gotta take this stuff to the shop with me tomorrow and play with it http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif hope i can find somewhere to mount this stuff http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Wile E. Coyote]

Neocon1,

For the lev-o-gage, a suggestion might be right on the wind shield just below the headliner. It's pretty flat and that way it's right in front of you and not quite visible from the outside since there is a slight tint on it.

[NEOCON1]

got some real world testing today http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[NEOCON1]

everything was fine a little contact on front sway-bar at lock with wheels stuffed . truck was great no problems after 700 miles on the toyos aired down to 25 psi today also and didant pop a bead http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Sean K.]

You're not anywhere near popping a bead at 25 psi. I'd say from my own experience that you should be able to go down to 12 psi without losing a bead.

As for the Level-O-Gauges....NEVER, and I mean NEVER let them determine whether or not you are going to roll.

Something as simple as one passenger in a different seat will compromise the accuracy of such gimmicky devices. They're merely a golly-gee-wiz accessory and will tell you nothing about how close you really are to rolling.

Just a warning.

Sean

[NEOCON1]

well it is a bit of a concern to me with the 315's on a 7.5" wheel .
i will test these the same way i did the stock 285's working my way down 5 psi at a time . i measure for sway-bar rub and dont want it to get to bad as i air down more and more .
next tests will be 20 psi and then steping down to 15 psi and checking rubbing issues as i go .
i ran the stock 33's in pismo at 15 psi and could go wherever i wanted http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . i also like knowing how the tires perform at different pressure settings . http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif any info you have on 35's on a narrow ass rim is welcome

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
well it is a bit of a concern to me with the 315's on a 7.5" wheel .
i will test these the same way i did the stock 285's working my way down 5 psi at a time . i measure for sway-bar rub and dont want it to get to bad as i air down more and more .
next tests will be 20 psi and then steping down to 15 psi and checking rubbing issues as i go .
i ran the stock 33's in pismo at 15 psi and could go wherever i wanted http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif . i also like knowing how the tires perform at different pressure settings . http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif any info you have on 35's on a narrow ass rim is welcome

FWIW, most guys I know run wider tires on the narrower rims b/c they actually stay attached to the bead seat better than wider rims. I had a friend that ran a 33x14.5" bogger on 7" wide rims....He aired down to 3 psi with no beadlocks and never rolled a bead off. The only downside is crowning the tread more when at road pressure.

Good luck to you. The tires you chose look great.

Take care,
Sean

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by Sean K.:
You're not anywhere near popping a bead at 25 psi. I'd say from my own experience that you should be able to go down to 12 psi without losing a bead.

As for the Level-O-Gauges....NEVER, and I mean NEVER let them determine whether or not you are going to roll.

Something as simple as one passenger in a different seat will compromise the accuracy of such gimmicky devices. They're merely a golly-gee-wiz accessory and will tell you nothing about how close you really are to rolling.

Just a warning.

Sean You are a complete and total ****ing idiot. Now you want to tell people they won't throw a bead at 12psi? Geezus!!!!!! Dude, you have talked out of your ass a little too much here. Why don't you STFU and read a little, maybe you will learn accurate facts and quit spouting the BS that some newbie will believe as truth.

As far as a gauge is concerned, don't use a tire gauge either, it's gimmicky. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

It doesn't freaking matter on these trucks if you have 1 person extra or 5. Specs take a lot more than that into account and people's pucker factors are completely different. If the manufacturer says that it will go up to x% slope, then why the &#uck would you not get a gauge and figure out where that is.

Just damn. How old are you? Do you even have driver's license?

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
You are a complete and total ****ing idiot. Now you want to tell people they won't throw a bead at 12psi? Geezus!!!!!! Dude, you have talked out of your ass a little too much here. Why don't you STFU and read a little, maybe you will learn accurate facts and quit spouting the BS that some newbie will believe as truth.

As far as a gauge is concerned, don't use a tire gauge either, it's gimmicky. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

It doesn't freaking matter on these trucks if you have 1 person extra or 5. Specs take a lot more than that into account and people's pucker factors are completely different. If the manufacturer says that it will go up to x% slope, then why the &#uck would you not get a gauge and figure out where that is.

Just damn. How old are you? Do you even have driver's license? Again, your inability to comprehend the written word has caused you to fly off the handle. The surest sign of someone with no rational argument is when they resort to name calling.

I can back up my point, but I refuse to do so with someone who's acting like a child. Why do you think I haven't been responding to your other posts? I can assure you it's not b/c I don't have plenty of rebuttals for you.....it's b/c you're not worthy of the time.

When you can have an adult conversation, I'll be more than willing to discuss this with you. Until then, I'm sure you'll continue digging your own grave.

Sean

[HummBebe]

I ran my stock 285/75 R16 tires at 14PSI all day yesterday on rocks, water, mud, washouts etc., and did not pop a bead.

I think with these trucks (H3's), it is just going to be an experiment. I don't think you can prescribe to one school of thought. Every vehicle tire/wheel combo is different.

Like that.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by Sean K.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
You are a complete and total ****ing idiot. Now you want to tell people they won't throw a bead at 12psi? Geezus!!!!!! Dude, you have talked out of your ass a little too much here. Why don't you STFU and read a little, maybe you will learn accurate facts and quit spouting the BS that some newbie will believe as truth.

As far as a gauge is concerned, don't use a tire gauge either, it's gimmicky. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

It doesn't freaking matter on these trucks if you have 1 person extra or 5. Specs take a lot more than that into account and people's pucker factors are completely different. If the manufacturer says that it will go up to x% slope, then why the &#uck would you not get a gauge and figure out where that is.

Just damn. How old are you? Do you even have driver's license? Again, your inability to comprehend the written word has caused you to fly off the handle. The surest sign of someone with no rational argument is when they resort to name calling.

I can back up my point, but I refuse to do so with someone who's acting like a child. Why do you think I haven't been responding to your other posts? I can assure you it's not b/c I don't have plenty of rebuttals for you.....it's b/c you're not worthy of the time.

When you can have an adult conversation, I'll be more than willing to discuss this with you. Until then, I'm sure you'll continue digging your own grave.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>back up what point? you can't backup anything you've as it applies here because you don't know anything about these vehicles.

You can't argue because you are wrong. The rest of it ancillary and it's obvious you focus more on it than anything to remotely to do with whether or not you are helping.

[DennisAJC]

Thanks for visiting Sean. Buh-Bye! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[kennyosemite]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
the one concern is this small plastic flange i think i will cut it back with a razor knife http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Neo - after your escapade Saturday, did you encounter any problems with this flange? Or have you removed it already?

[NEOCON1]

havent trimed anything seems to just barely clear http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif i did notice that fronts do touch front sway bar at full lock and suspension working . small area where paint was worn on sway bar , i will keep an eye on it as i air down more and more , its a pretty minor concern at this time . still no trimming or torsion bar adjustment http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[kennyosemite]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
havent trimed anything seems to just barely clear http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif i did notice that fronts do touch front sway bar at full lock and suspension working . small area where paint was worn on sway bar , i will keep an eye on it as i air down more and more , its a pretty minor concern at this time . still no trimming or torsion bar adjustment http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Kewl. Thanks, man. I grew up not too far from you in Santa Monica. Have great memories of the hills between Mulholland and PCH where they used to film M.A.S.H. After I get my truck (4-5 weeks, I hope), I'll have to look you up down there.

[KenP]

Originally posted by NEOCON1:
havent trimed anything seems to just barely clear http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif i did notice that fronts do touch front sway bar at full lock and suspension working . small area where paint was worn on sway bar , i will keep an eye on it as i air down more and more , its a pretty minor concern at this time . still no trimming or torsion bar adjustment http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Rubbing on the sway bar is not a problem. In fact, it's very common with the H2's. I wouldn't worry about it at all.

If you rub on the fender liner, just cut it away. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sean K.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
You are a complete and total ****ing idiot. Now you want to tell people they won't throw a bead at 12psi? Geezus!!!!!! Dude, you have talked out of your ass a little too much here. Why don't you STFU and read a little, maybe you will learn accurate facts and quit spouting the BS that some newbie will believe as truth.

As far as a gauge is concerned, don't use a tire gauge either, it's gimmicky. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

It doesn't freaking matter on these trucks if you have 1 person extra or 5. Specs take a lot more than that into account and people's pucker factors are completely different. If the manufacturer says that it will go up to x% slope, then why the &#uck would you not get a gauge and figure out where that is.

Just damn. How old are you? Do you even have driver's license? Again, your inability to comprehend the written word has caused you to fly off the handle. The surest sign of someone with no rational argument is when they resort to name calling.

I can back up my point, but I refuse to do so with someone who's acting like a child. Why do you think I haven't been responding to your other posts? I can assure you it's not b/c I don't have plenty of rebuttals for you.....it's b/c you're not worthy of the time.

When you can have an adult conversation, I'll be more than willing to discuss this with you. Until then, I'm sure you'll continue digging your own grave.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>back up what point? you can't backup anything you've as it applies here because you don't know anything about these vehicles.

You can't argue because you are wrong. The rest of it ancillary and it's obvious you focus more on it than anything to remotely to do with whether or not you are helping. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Paragon,
I can only assume this is your attempt to discuss the issue like an adult.....what with the fact that you didn't call me any names above.

It strikes me as you're the type of guy who likes to argue for the sake of arguing, so I'll entertain your comments.

For example, I could say, "The planet we live on is called Earth" and you'd say "No, it's not". You wouldn't explain your reasoning....e.g. that in another language, the exact word might not be "Earth"....you'd just harp on about how stupid I am. Well, hopefully, you can see how counter productive that is.

So.....let's get down to it: what pressure do you recommend for a "general" trail pressure for the H3?

Obviously, we're not talking about running down the highway or even on fireroads....we're talking a trail pressure where: low range is going to be required to navigate the trail and tire pressure will be lowered from street pressure to optimize the ride quality over the ledges, rocks, roots, ruts, etc. and maximize traction.

As for your assertion that the H3 is somehow SOOOO different from any other vehicle that I couldn't possibly make a valid recommendation based on my experience: that's simply a load of crap. (Notice a few posts up where someone was running 14 psi all day with no issues????)

What's an H3 weigh? I'm guessing somewhere between 5-6K lbs. with passengers and gear, right? I'm assuming they also run something like a 16 or possibly a 17" wheel too, right?

So basically, we have a vehicle with a fairly even (60/40 or 55/45) weight bias f/r (depending on cargo)....are you trying to buffalo everyone here into believing that somehow it's so very different from other vehicles in the overall weight and weight distribution class that the tire pressure required will be different? If so, WHY????? What makes it different?

The reason I pointed out that you weren't reading what I was writing earlier, was b/c you seem to have missed this statement, "I'd say from my own experience that you should be able to go down to 12 psi without losing a bead.

That's my personal experience with A LOT of different vehicles with the same or similar sized tires on the same size rims.....including very close to the same overall weights and biases. I can give specific vehicle examples if required.

If you could explain to me why the H3 is so much different than all of these other vehicles, I'd love to hear your reasoning. Otherwise, I'm inclined to think your post was merely to try and engage in an argument.

As for the Level-O-Gauge or Clinometer (whichever term you prefer): If it's so "ancillary" as you stated, why even bring it up?

I'm sure you're familiar with the difference between % of grade and degrees. If an H3 is rated by the factory to handle a 40% grade, and the gauge used (I don't know how it's graduated) is in degrees, unless someone knows the conversion (and I'll bet many owners do not)....it isn't really that helpful. Do you disagree with that elemental statement?

Do you know how manufacturers come up with the sidehill % of grade? I'm not asking to act like a know it all.....I'm asking b/c I don't know if you know. If you'll bear with me, it'll become clearer.

Here's a pic of the kind of platform many manufacturers use to test sidehill threshold:

http://www.off-road-drive.ru/etc/big-Defenders_report_07.jpg

As you can tell from the pic.....it's a very static variable test. The problem with the gauges in the real world is the variables are much more dynamic....weight transfer, as well as cargo shifting, tire placement and uneven terrain will all come into play and that's not really the element in which the manufacturer's test was designed (unless you like wheeling on the sides of a drainage retention ditch like in LA http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ).

All I meant by my comment about clinometers was that they are not the be-all, end-all answer to whether or not your vehicle will roll over in a given situation.....I didn't mean the guy that was putting one in his rig felt that way, but there are people out there that do misunderstand it's application.

If you'd like to discuss it further, I can go into more detail with more examples, but I'm sure you can see what I was getting at now that I've explained it.

Sean

PS. I'm not sure if this post will set you off on another tirade....you'll probably say it's too long winded, etc. Whatever; I gave my explanation. That's all I can do.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by Sean K.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sean K.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
You are a complete and total ****ing idiot. Now you want to tell people they won't throw a bead at 12psi? Geezus!!!!!! Dude, you have talked out of your ass a little too much here. Why don't you STFU and read a little, maybe you will learn accurate facts and quit spouting the BS that some newbie will believe as truth.

As far as a gauge is concerned, don't use a tire gauge either, it's gimmicky. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

It doesn't freaking matter on these trucks if you have 1 person extra or 5. Specs take a lot more than that into account and people's pucker factors are completely different. If the manufacturer says that it will go up to x% slope, then why the &#uck would you not get a gauge and figure out where that is.

Just damn. How old are you? Do you even have driver's license? Again, your inability to comprehend the written word has caused you to fly off the handle. The surest sign of someone with no rational argument is when they resort to name calling.

I can back up my point, but I refuse to do so with someone who's acting like a child. Why do you think I haven't been responding to your other posts? I can assure you it's not b/c I don't have plenty of rebuttals for you.....it's b/c you're not worthy of the time.

When you can have an adult conversation, I'll be more than willing to discuss this with you. Until then, I'm sure you'll continue digging your own grave.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>back up what point? you can't backup anything you've as it applies here because you don't know anything about these vehicles.

You can't argue because you are wrong. The rest of it ancillary and it's obvious you focus more on it than anything to remotely to do with whether or not you are helping. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Paragon,
I can only assume this is your attempt to discuss the issue like an adult.....what with the fact that you didn't call me any names above.

It strikes me as you're the type of guy who likes to argue for the sake of arguing, so I'll entertain your comments.

For example, I could say, "The planet we live on is called Earth" and you'd say "No, it's not". You wouldn't explain your reasoning....e.g. that in another language, the exact word might not be "Earth"....you'd just harp on about how stupid I am. Well, hopefully, you can see how counter productive that is.

So.....let's get down to it: what pressure do you recommend for a "general" trail pressure for the H3?

Obviously, we're not talking about running down the highway or even on fireroads....we're talking a trail pressure where: low range is going to be required to navigate the trail and tire pressure will be lowered from street pressure to optimize the ride quality over the ledges, rocks, roots, ruts, etc. and maximize traction.

As for your assertion that the H3 is somehow SOOOO different from any other vehicle that I couldn't possibly make a valid recommendation based on my experience: that's simply a load of crap. (Notice a few posts up where someone was running 14 psi all day with no issues????)

What's an H3 weigh? I'm guessing somewhere between 5-6K lbs. with passengers and gear, right? I'm assuming they also run something like a 16 or possibly a 17" wheel too, right?

So basically, we have a vehicle with a fairly even (60/40 or 55/45) weight bias f/r (depending on cargo)....are you trying to buffalo everyone here into believing that somehow it's so very different from other vehicles in the overall weight and weight distribution class that the tire pressure required will be different? If so, WHY????? What makes it different?

The reason I pointed out that you weren't reading what I was writing earlier, was b/c you seem to have missed this statement, "I'd say from my own experience that you should be able to go down to 12 psi without losing a bead.

That's my personal experience with A LOT of different vehicles with the same or similar sized tires on the same size rims.....including very close to the same overall weights and biases. I can give specific vehicle examples if required.

If you could explain to me why the H3 is so much different than all of these other vehicles, I'd love to hear your reasoning. Otherwise, I'm inclined to think your post was merely to try and engage in an argument.

As for the Level-O-Gauge or Clinometer (whichever term you prefer): If it's so "ancillary" as you stated, why even bring it up?

I'm sure you're familiar with the difference between % of grade and degrees. If an H3 is rated by the factory to handle a 40% grade, and the gauge used (I don't know how it's graduated) is in degrees, unless someone knows the conversion (and I'll bet many owners do not)....it isn't really that helpful. Do you disagree with that elemental statement?

Do you know how manufacturers come up with the sidehill % of grade? I'm not asking to act like a know it all.....I'm asking b/c I don't know if you know. If you'll bear with me, it'll become clearer.

Here's a pic of the kind of platform many manufacturers use to test sidehill threshold:

http://www.off-road-drive.ru/etc/big-Defenders_report_07.jpg

As you can tell from the pic.....it's a very static variable test. The problem with the gauges in the real world is the variables are much more dynamic....weight transfer, as well as cargo shifting, tire placement and uneven terrain will all come into play and that's not really the element in which the manufacturer's test was designed (unless you like wheeling on the sides of a drainage retention ditch like in LA http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ).

All I meant by my comment about clinometers was that they are not the be-all, end-all answer to whether or not your vehicle will roll over in a given situation.....I didn't mean the guy that was putting one in his rig felt that way, but there are people out there that do misunderstand it's application.

If you'd like to discuss it further, I can go into more detail with more examples, but I'm sure you can see what I was getting at now that I've explained it.

Sean

PS. I'm not sure if this post will set you off on another tirade....you'll probably say it's too long winded, etc. Whatever; I gave my explanation. That's all I can do. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>actually I could employ my speedreading skills but my BS meter was going off too loudly.

You said and I quote "you should be able to go down to 12 psi without losing a bead." That's bad advice. As far as your 14 psi comment, I'll take the pictures and your definition of "trails" into consideration but more importantly, since you are so into math, let's understand something. Going from 14 psi to 12 psi is a huge change in tire pressure. NO? Just 2 lbs change might not mean much at 45 but in the teens that represents roughly a 15% change.

So, you are advising someone to run a pressure where they are VERY LIKELY to pop a bead should they wheel difficult terrain just because you don't think the weight has anything to do with it. It's really simple physics, you push a 6k lb vehicle into a rock with underinflated tires and the weight matters, dumbass.

As far as ancillary, you should try to pay attention. I'm referring to you being a dumbass, stupid, and quite the idiot, being ancillary.

I'm sure you thought you had a point about side slope, especially the part where you were insinuating other owner couldn't possibly be as smart as you. But frankly, again you showed your stupidity. And you were set up knowing you were going to be stupid about this one.

In fact I am very familiar with how slope percentage compares to angle of degrees. I junior high school too. Fact is, the approx 23 degrees that Hummer says is the safe amount of off camber is not even close to what it's safely capable of doing.

Can I ask something personal. Are you 12 years old?

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
Can I ask something personal. Are you 12 years old?

Why? Are you looking for a date? You strike me as the kind of guy that would be into young boys.

As for the rest of it....

It's not bad advice.....as I said, IN MY EXPERIENCE......you obviously needed the examples.

Here's just one. 02 Dodge 4x4 2500 with Cummins H.0., NV5600, HD NP241 with PTO, D80 rear, D60 front....weight: 7800lbs with 16" rims and 315 tires (roughly a 35" tire). I'm giving you the heavier vehicle example b/c that should matter even more.....I run 12 psi on Poughkeepsie Gulch in Colorado....no blow beads and there's a very good offcamber at the hardest spot on the trail (not that it's a difficult trail.....but it does meet the requirements I posted earlier of lower pressure, low range needed, etc.).


Now, answer the question or is it simply that you can't? 15% doesn't mean crap. What matters is whether or not the tire stays on the rim or can you not grasp that either?

So, explain professor.....why is the H3 SOOOO different?

Answer: it's not.

Sean

[PARAGON]

Good for you and your fire road. I've made my point and if 15% doesn't mean crap to you, maybe it will to someone that actually is wheeling their H3.

Why would you air down to ride along on a scenic road? That's more trouble than it's worth. Oh yeah, you like to use that comprehension thing don't you. Well I'll quote.

tire pressure will be lowered from street pressure to optimize the ride quality over the ledges, rocks, roots, ruts, etc. and maximize traction
See, you are hung up on you. You are hung up on running on gravel roads and airing down so it's not as bumpy.

The thread was about what to air down to in Moab where REAL trail riding will be had, not your redefined idea of trail riding. That's really funny, "hey, why don't you air down to 12 psi in Moab because when I drive on gravel roads I can assure you I won't pop a bead" http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
Good for you and your fire road. I've made my point and if 15% doesn't mean crap to you, maybe it will to someone that actually is wheeling their H3.

Why would you air down to ride along on a scenic road? That's more trouble than it's worth. Oh yeah, you like to use that comprehension thing don't you. Well I'll quote.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> tire pressure will be lowered from street pressure to optimize the ride quality over the ledges, rocks, roots, ruts, etc. and maximize traction
See, you are hung up on you. You are hung up on running on gravel roads and airing down so it's not as bumpy.

The thread was about what to air down to in Moab where REAL trail riding will be had, not your redefined idea of trail riding. That's really funny, "hey, why don't you air down to 12 psi in Moab because when I drive on gravel roads I can assure you I won't pop a bead" http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ya, a fullsize tow rig isn't really equipped to run challenging trails. I gave the example to illustrate that an even HEAVIER rig than an H3 can run 12 psi with similar tires/wheels and have no problems. If you think there are more than a handful of H3s out there running harder trails than Poughkeepsie....your experience is much different than mine and the pics in this thread support my POV.

Oh, you want Moab trails.....sorry, I can give you some specs on a 4500 lb 4Runner I had....35x15.5 SXs on 15" wheels, no beadlocks 12 psi.....That was way back when though. I've got video and I think I've got actual photos, but no scanner.

I've got plenty of pics from Moab with a truggie on 38s with beadlocks.....not really helpful though since it was locked.

Want those pics instead? Just say so.

I've got Upper Helldorado pics, Pritchett Canyon, and Hell's Revenge....btw, those are all easy as pie compared to AZ trails. Upper Hell's the only one that's really on par with the stuff here.

So, that 15% was the crux of your whole argument? Hmmm.....seems to me the guy that posted about different terrains requiring different pressures had it right but you know all. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Sean

[Sean K.]

Oh, and I am hung up on me. I'm self centered as all hell.....but then you already know that.

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sean

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by Alec W:
Nah, you are just a troll.

Oh, I'm a troll? Riiiiiight http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

How so? B/c I'm doing to your little butt buddy what he and you do to everyone else?

I came here pleasant as punch. I made a mistake about a skid pan and admitted that mistake after being given a good answer for the other point of view.

Paragon and his little mafia members looked at every post I made and decided to take issue with me.

Maybe I just didn't understand that's the way things work around here, but I do now. Thanks for the education.

I didn't come here orginally looking for trouble. You found me. Well I'm here. Bring it, if you can. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sean

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sean K.:
So, explain professor.....why is the H3 SOOOO different?

One has the number 2 and the other has the number 3 after the H. Are you stupid? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Since you obviously aren't following the thread very well, maybe you should ask yourself that question.

Clarification: we're not discussing the H2 vs. the H3. I want to know why Paragon thinks a vehicle that weighs roughly the same as the H3 and has a very similar weight bias is SO much different than the H3 that it necessitates a different PSI recommendation for the tires.

Oh, and Paragon....I also have pics of the Moab Rim trail.....want those too?

Sean

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by Alec W:

Nothing left for me to bring, you already got owned. Sorry I am late for the party http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Please. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif You fawkers are so weak.

Sean

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sean K.:
I also have pics of the Moab Rim trail.....want those too?

Moab rim is a warm up trail. Got any pics of something harder? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>\

Read above....if you can manage that feat. Upper Hell? Pritchett? Proving Grounds closed before I ever got a chance to run it.

Sean

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by Alec W:
Is fawker like a ****er?

Yep....just not quite so offensive. I'm not pissed at you guys....just entertaining myself. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Sean

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sean K.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sean K.:
I also have pics of the Moab Rim trail.....want those too?

Upper Hell? Pritchett? Proving Grounds closed before I ever got a chance to run it.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Uh huh, sure they did http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh, so you ran it? Pics?

Sean

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by Alec W:

Why the stars?

You've been here for 12509 posts and you don't know, lol?

I'm not wasting my time going around the filters. Not worth it.

Sean

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by Alec W:
Yup I ran it. Use the find function and search for Moab and Alec W.

Got 5 hits, but none were pics of Proving Grounds. Did you run upper or lower? Make the last fall on upper? What were you driving?

Any better way to search....maybe under "proving grounds"?

Sean

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sean K.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:

Why the stars?

You've been here for 12509 posts and you don't know, lol?

I'm not wasting my time going around the filters. Not worth it.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Good one http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why are you confused? (Not getting your smiley choice I guess).

You know how to get around the filters (h2copilot showed me to do it by changing the color ubb code).....so where's the confusion?

Sean

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sean K.:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
Yup I ran it. Use the find function and search for Moab and Alec W.

Got 5 hits, but none were pics of Proving Grounds. Did you run upper or lower? Make the last fall on upper? What were you driving?

Any better way to search....maybe under "proving grounds"?

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I thought you were talking about Moab Rim. So you have run the proving grounds? Which one upper or lower? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, I didn't get to run either before they were closed. To be honest, upper would've probably eaten my lunch (1/2 ton axles and dual cases, but no rear disconnect for front dig at the tight 90º turn). I would've loved to try it though.....I swapped in an Atlas just for the front dig capability just for that trail....close to $3K down the drain on that one, lol.

Sean

[Sean K.]

Hey, did you get to run the comp course before they closed it that was right off of Moab Rim?

It was bad ass, being on the cliff like that..........

Sean

[NEOCON1]

internet , bla bla , looooock boooooox !!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Sean K.]

Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sean K.:
Hey, did you get to run the comp course before they closed it that was right off of Moab Rim?

It was bad ass, being on the cliff like that..........

Sean
No, I don't know what the comp course is. An EJS thing? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
No, a few years back....2004 I think....before they held all RCC events at Area BFE (out by Upper Helldorado), they held one event on the cliff side just below the top of Moab Rim. It was sorta off to the side of where that sky chair ride drops people.

It tore up a good portion of land and BLM closed it (as they should have IMO).....no sense in losing trails to events like that (again, IMO).

Hey, it's getting late....I'm heading to bed. Take care,
Sean

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by Sean K.:
Hey, it's getting late....I'm heading to bed. Take care,
Sean WTF