Hummer H2 Or Porsche Cayenne

[Otto]

If money was not an issue, would you rather own a H2 or a Porsche Cayenne?

[Otto]

If money was not an issue, would you rather own a H2 or a Porsche Cayenne?

[KenP]

I have a feeling most of us are biased with regard to the answer. But I chose the H2 over all others due to many factors. Bad Ass and different were among them. Of course I upgraded the performance. Can the Porsche Pepper spin tires on dry pavement http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif?

Seriously, I could have gotten the Pepper but just fell in love with the H2. Ride, comfort, performance and "Awe" factor made it the truck for me.

Black Lingenfelter Lux

[argonaut]

I had a debate over this very issue with my girlfriend. She wanted the turbo Cayenne, and I wanted the H2. Good thing it's my money http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif H2 it is. But seriously, the cayenne is nice, but only for on road people, or people concerned with image. The H2 is that way tgo go if you plan on heading off the pavement. Plus it is more macho than a suped up soccer mom vehicle (cayenne).

[Circuitguy]

Two totaly different machines. No comparrison. You my be able to compare the Porsche to a Land Rover but never an H2. As to price being no issue,I would still take the H2. But thats me. My buddy just purchased a new Land Rover and while doing so he looked at the Porsche at the same dealership. He said the Porsche could not even compare to to what the Land Rover or the H2 can offer. I can't speak for everybody but Its all about what I want in a car or truck not the purchase price. Anyway you only make payments on it until you trade it in! My two cents...C

First American Properties Inc. 916-858-2383
White 03-H2-LUX

[MAC]

The MSRP of $54K is about the same, but turbo Cayenne is over $100K. My choice was and is Hummer. I used to think Cayenne is handsome, but I see more now, the more I look at that Cayenne the more ugly it looks.

Porsche owners are also very snobbish, 914, 928 and 944 were never accepted as "real Porsches". (928S4 is so beautiful!) I doubt Cayenne will ever be accepted, and that hatred lasts decades or forever among Porsche owners. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

In Hummer's case, H2 has turned H1 into antique and their owners as antique collectors, in due time, by overwhelming quantity and by superior quality, H2 will be or is the Hummer standard bearer, H1 will be the respected beloved grandfather upstair. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Zing]

I personally don't like the class of vehicles that the Cayenne falls under. Just not for me. Not quite and SUV, not really a station wagon, goes fast as (or faster than) a car, has some offroad capabities, etc. I like pure rugged elegance of the H2. The Cayenne just lacks the "X" factor appeal of the H2.

If money wasn't an issue, I'd have an H1, H2 and something zippy like a Ferrari.

[Grim_Smoker]

I'd buy the Cayenne and park it in the front yard, then climb the H2 on top of it in different poses, and park it. Get out take some pictures, and leave it as abstract art. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

-Grim

2003 Sunset Metalic Orange H2 - Breathless Stage 2B, HID's, Gobi Rack & Ladder.

2003 Millenium Yellow Z06

[HOHOH2]

I'm in love with the H2 but I have to admit to being intrigued by the Cayenne. There is an offroad package and the approach/departure angles are better than most. I guess I'd be the craziest Cayenne owner on the planet for even thinking that I could keep up offroad but I am intrigued.

[Steve R]

I think the cayene is a joke. Sorry to come off so strong, but I was expecting MUCH more from Porsche.

Check it out: if the EXACT IDENTICAL vehicle was made by Subaru and sold for $27K....nobody would touch it!!!!!! Think about it...you know I'm right. It's strictly about name & image.

If the H2 is considered an SUV on steroids, then the Cayene is a mid-sized SUV (with mini-van influence) with a powerful/fast engine. I'd love to take it offroading with us...when it gets stuck we can use it for traction.

[BADRAP]

I would have still chosen the Hummer, but I had a 914, and a 944 and I was welcomed into the groups here in town no problems, I understand that some Porsche owners are snobs, but not all..

BADRAP
03 H2, Lux, Pewter, more upgrades soon..
Houston Texas H2 Hummer Chapter..
badrap@sbcglobal.net

[DCfromCapeCod]

The Cayenne was not built to be an off-road vehicle, it was built to appeal to all the 996 (current 911 model) owners that also wanted SUV's. It also turns a pretty incredible time on the N'ring in Germany.

As a Porsche guy myself (1998 C2S Widebody), I considered the Cayenne and I like the numbers but I just can't get excited over the looks and I need the whole package.

[DiscoDancingRover]

Man Steve you must really hate that thing. But I have to dissage with you tha it is just a minivan comment. It doesn't have much an influence IMHO. I think it is pretty Badass (MAC don't yell at me please). Also look at the VW Touage or something like that. It will sell more then the Porsche and it pretty much the same thing minus the bigger engine. I like how the Porsche looks and it seems pretty confident off-road, the footage I saw of it on Moab was pretty cool...

Rover owner, with light envy...

[MAC]

According to what I've read, VW Touage and Cayenne are very different animals, even through the Porsche engineers developed both vehicles. A VW is never a Porsche, VW owners may dream about it and give you all kind of excuses, but NO NO NO. If you really need to know the hardware details, you have to read AutoWeek or Road & Track or any of the auto magazines. The testers came away very impressed, but that will never please the one-track-minded guys who will judge every automobile by the offroad capabilities ONLY. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Otto]

It is interesting to note that many 'offroad capabilities ONLY' guys do not mention that they use this nation's highways to get them to the sites where they can 'offroad'. In fact, the majority of them use their same 'offroad' machines to take them to and from work everyday.
yet they will boast relentlessly about their 2 day a week exploits and say nothing about their 5 day a week utilitarian activities in the very same vehicle.

[MAC]

"2 days a week exploits" is a gross exaggeration. What kind of man would abandon his family and goes off into the mountains 2 days a week? I think Hummer offroaders are far more normal than that. Otto is very observant in noticing that some friends sounded like they are offroading every day of the week and they don’t have a life outside of offroad. I can assure you that they do have a life besides offroad, regardless of what they may say. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

But if offroad capabilities is the only judgment of an automobile, then you need to look no further than those weekend rock climbing and offroad TV shows with highly modified ugly trucks http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif with huge tires. Hummer is a sissy joke compare to those real mean offroad vehicles.

Porsche is a magical brand, a name to be respected by any car lovers. I can imagine it must be a joy to drive the Porsche Cayenne daily, as I do with my Hummer.

[bklynh2srock]

Realistically, I'd get the Touareg in addition to the H2 we already have. If money were no object, I'd get the Range Rover instead of the Porsche/Touareg. Touareg is loaded for the $$$, excellent value, very luxe, and yes, it appears it will be pretty capable both on and off road (not H2 mind you, but much better than those that lack even 4lo). Especially with the available lockers -- even tho I'd probably rarely take either Cayenne/Touareg off road.

If I get a Porsche, it will be an old 956 or a 912 or an early 911. I am not one of those people that thinks it is sacrilege for Porsche to make an SUV, but it makes me uneasy.

[Peyton77]

http://www.cayenneforum.com/

Peyton

WWW.LANDMARKBANKONLINE.COM (http://WWW.LANDMARKBANKONLINE.COM)
WWW.GIANTBANK.COM (http://WWW.GIANTBANK.COM)

[Dan]

Exactly Brooklyn, it makes me uneasy too. An 'out of their element' feeling. I'm not much for "Lapdog SUVs" so I'll stick with the HUMMER.

- Dan

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http://www.microfunds.com/H2/SUT_DBlasi.gif SUT on order since 12/02 - ONE YEAR to go!
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[bklynh2srock]

By the way, DO NOT go to the Touareg forum. I think I fell asleep at the keys. Although I appreciate this forum so much, I appreciated it that much more after I'd gone out and cheated on you guys. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[SJ]

I'm so biased regarding American vs. German vehicles and not the biggest Porsche fan (to put it politely) - that I scratched my original response.

On a positive note, Porsche ditched the lawn moweresque I-6 and dropped in a V8. Every time a Porsche passes by I'm reminded that I could use a leaf blower around the house. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[DCfromCapeCod]

911 still has a 6......

[SJ]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by DCfromCapeCod:
911 still has a 6......<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I know, I was referring to the Cayenne exclusively - both the 'S' and the 'turbo' have the 4.5L V8. I'm also giving Otto a little jibe for wanting to compare the two.

[argonaut]

The cayenne reminds me of an X5. It has nimble handling and is very fast (the turbo is super duper fast). It may or may not be capable offroad (like the X5), but is very comfortable on road, and can handle very well. The H2, on the other hand, is very capable offroad, yet drives very well onroad. It is a quite comfortable vehicle, and I would say is very close in comfort level to the german trucks. That said, I'm sure it is easier to drive and park the cayenne/ X5 in an urban setting. I happen to be a very good parallel parker, so I have no problem with the H2, but I know some people who would rather die than park it downtown. But it really boils down to what you want in an SUV. fast acceleration and high speed on road driving coupled with tight handling, or a gargantuan capable offroader with horrible gas mileage yet is comfortable as a daily driver. Obviously the Hummer is not for everyone, but for those of us who have made the choice and bought our huge "box on wheels" (as that Andkon guy put it, remember him?), we are loving every minute of it and would not trade it for anything. I chose wisely. I have my M5 for speed, although I hardly ever drive that thing anymore. The hummer is just more fun.

[hummer33]

argonaut... i pitty you for comparing the cayenne with the x5. a better x5 comparrison would be the volvo xc90. more of a knoeckoff, but thats another story on its own. but back to the cayenne. 450 hp would be nice but i would never pay 100k for a vehicle that looks almost identical to an lexus rx330. but who in the right mind would take the cayenne offroad anywhere outside an exit on the way to the owner's mansion in Beverly Hills. the designers of the x5 deserve a round of applouse. they combined extreme class with a strong engine and an overall nice vehicle. the cayenne is extremely ugly, NO CAPABILITIES and will probably be so rare you might as well stop debating over such an over-hyped dissapointing vehicle. stick with the h2. itll take you way over the hills, all through the woods, and crash down grandmothers house in the end.

[argonaut]

I think the X5 is very comparable to the cayenne, especially the 4.6. The X5 has unparralelled handlng that only the cayenne comes close to. But nothing can beat the feel of a BMW. I almost bought an X5 last spring, but decided to wait and test drive the H2. I'm glad I went this route. But I am a strong BMW fan, and always will be. The Volvo XC90 may look likke the X5, but it hadles horribly, like most volvos. It is dead and numb. The Cayenne, on tghe other hand, has very good handling that is comparable with the X5. They both drive like cars, and nice german cars at that. I don't know why you are pitying me, but that's too bad for you. I don't pity myself at all, quite the opposite actually.
regardless, the owners of either an X5 or cayenne would be stupid to take it off road on anything but the most basic of trails. They simply can't compete with an H2.

[Big Z]

Looks like they got the style from a Mini Cooper.

[MAC]

AutoWeek. July 7, 2003. 14th Annual Readers' Survey. Best SUV/Off-road Vehicle. Porsche Cayenne.

[DiscoDancingRover]

I was at my local rover dealership today, which also have porsches. I was talking to my salesman and he told me while at the off-road porsche school a guy who did the Land Rover Camel events said the Cayenne is on par with a discovery. And no wise cracks Steve R http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

1995 Land Rover Discovery, with light envy
2003 Acura 3.2TL
1998 Volvo V70 XC

[RasterMaster]

Get real! It's amazing that anything else would quaify as an SUV.

Check out the OkC Chapter Page!

[Steve R]

Chris....I'd slap the salesman for insulting the Disco!!!

Let's keep it sweet & short. Define SUV! If by SUV you mean something that is slightly higher off the ground and incorporates it's trunk into the passenger compartment and has 4-wheel drive...yeah, the Cayenne is one heck of an SUV.

However.....if you include the concept of offroad capability into an SUV...then we've got some serious issues with the Cayenne. HELLO...it's got hardly anything in the way of articulation, clearance and tires. Most of us have seen the Arrowhead video I put together...I guarantee that thing wouldn't make it up the first hill or through any of the "Most Difficult" rated trails we roll right through. Look at it....it's not going to happen! And btw...I'm seeing them all over the place. The theme around here is: Now the wifey can have a Porsche too!

I will repeat what I stated earlier: if the identical cayenne vehicle were made by Subaru and sold for $27K....they would hardly sell!!!

[DCfromCapeCod]

Although not nearly the off-road monster the H2 is, the Cayenne has far more technology and design work into it that does the H2. I would not expect the demographic that would buy the H2 to also like the Cayenne but it certainly is more vehicle than the Disco (all-around) and it is much more than soccer-mom Porsche.

Personally, I think that if Subaru made it and sold it at $27K with nice options then it would easily sell 100,000 units the first years out (v.s. 12,500 for Porsche).

If I could get around the looks, I would order one myself.....and I am a hard-core air-cooled guy (1998 C2S Widebody).

[H2Norcal]

I got a dual-bias thing going on here. I have owned and loved every one of my Porsche coupes (with the original body), but after they changed the body to look like a Ford Probe and introduced the Boxter which came with a million or so 23 year old yuppie.com drivers that thought they owned a real Porsche, I bailed on the company.

I was at Pismo Beach (a huge SVRA beach sand dune park in CA for the out-of-towners), and a Cayenne owner drove out on the beach looking to rent some ATVs. A Lexus GX was right next to it (with his air bags all raked up in the rear as in fear of getting a little sand on it). I am sorry but the drivers of both vehicles looked like they just stepped out of a summer dinner part in Newport Beach. Jewelry, preppy hair doos, loafers no socks...you get the picture...all this to drive around in the sand?

My point? A Hummer is truly like nothing else and I now realize I chose the right vehicle for me.

They can keep on thinking their Range Rovers, Disos, Cayennes, and GXs are rough and tough American off-road vehicles all day long. They're all great vehicles, don't get me wrong, but each have their own type of following and none represents me better than Hummer.

[DCfromCapeCod]

I am wondering if they bought the Cayennes, etc. to drive on road but to add a measure of security in the snow AND to get on the beach if they wanted to.

Face it - very few people actually go off road. I have a built Jeep for when I do and I would not take a $50K+ new vehicle into the woods...but I want something fun that will also handle the beach, the snow and the 2 miles of unplowed road I need to travel to get to the street in the winter.

[DiscoDancingRover]

Steve don't want to be argumentative but the H1 and H2 don't have a lot of articulation as is just big tires. And Steve he also told me that most people buy Porsche's for its speed not looks, so your suby story would be true. I wouldn't slap my salesman in the face. He is about as much as a rover enthusiest as I am. I go in there for hours and we just talk rovers. I am goneing to have to go with my salesman on this.

1995 Land Rover Discovery, with light envy
2003 Acura 3.2TL
1998 Volvo V70 XC

[DiscoDancingRover]

Also anyone see what came in second...The Range Rover ahead of the H2. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

1995 Land Rover Discovery, with light envy
2003 Acura 3.2TL
1998 Volvo V70 XC

[DiscoDancingRover]

H2Norcal the boxter was a great move by porsche from the fact that it sold so many more cars then before. And I can't believe you don't like to new one, it is the old ones that look like crap! How would you say the hummer isn't like anything else? You example would also include a lot of H2 posuers. They would do the exact same thing as the GX and cayenne.

1995 Land Rover Discovery, with light envy
2003 Acura 3.2TL
1998 Volvo V70 XC

[Steve R]

Chris, Chris, Chris.... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

WRONG!. The H1 has hardly any articulation, much to do with it having gear-driven hubs and the way it was set up. The H2 however has HUGE articulation and suspension travel. NOT even close to being the same animal!

You guys get so wound-up toting SFA that you become consumed in assumptions. Yes, the front-end of the H2 is independent suspension: but open your eyes and look how far up and down that suspension travels! From level, it can travel about 8" up and nearly 10" down....that's a span of 18". You can get a bit more travel out of an SFA, but certainly that would come from fairly extreme modification. The Cayenne probably has about 8" of total suspension travel...not even half the H2's.

As for slapping your salesman...that was both a joke and figure of speech: I did not mean to suggest you actually slap him. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

No surprise the RR and cayenne beat the H2. The H2 will continue to fall-short anytime they do a general comparison for "best SUV". That's because a GREAT SUV has to be all things. The H2 BOMBS again and again and again:

1) It's a bitch to get up and into, most people hate that and flunk the H2 on the spot.

2) it has a seemingly wide front-end so until you get used to it you feel it's overly wide and a bitch to park.

3) Lack of cargo area. Being that the departure angles are a bit extreme and they could only go so far with the wheelbase...the vehicle is short and we lack big cargo space as expected from the size of the vehicle.

4) The gas mileage is low.

So there ya go....the H2 "sucks" as a general SUV. Now...if you wanna talk about an SUV that actually delivers in offroad performance....the H2 slams on the competition. The H2 is an extreme vehicle in that regard....it's NOT the ticket for the average person and will continue to fall short in comparisons.

Why is it soooooo hard for people to understand this?

[DiscoDancingRover]

Here is the articulation I was talking about. And the compenition was from best SUV/off-road vehicle. I don't think we should continue to argue about this since we both feel patinate about our sides and that won't get us anywhere now would it? And I know you didn't mean slap him.

1995 Land Rover Discovery, with light envy
2003 Acura 3.2TL
1998 Volvo V70 XC

[DiscoDancingRover]

This doesn't look like a lot of articulation to me. IMHO. And its the best SUV/off-road vehicle. I don't think we should argue really about this since we both feel patinate about our sides. And I know you didn't mean to slap him, I am not that retarded.

1995 Land Rover Discovery, with light envy
2003 Acura 3.2TL
1998 Volvo V70 XC

[DiscoDancingRover]

Here is some comparison when I got bored at school in the winter. This is me with a stock suspention. It doesn't show my full articulation. The top of the tire was about 12 inches from the fender. and still had more room to go.

1995 Land Rover Discovery, with light envy
2003 Acura 3.2TL
1998 Volvo V70 XC

[DiscoDancingRover]

this is the picture that was supposed to go in there.

1995 Land Rover Discovery, with light envy
2003 Acura 3.2TL
1998 Volvo V70 XC

[H2Norcal]

Chris, I guess I need to start digging up the worst possible pictures of your boney-tired "perfect" off-roading vehicle too now.

You are right in many ways. But good driving can prevent much of what you show in a worst example of the H2.

As for your comments on the Boxter. Yes, the Boxter bailed out Porsche in a big way. But any time you take a reputable company and launch a cheap product for those who can't afford their high-end namesake vehicle, you have a sales hit. I guess I see this the same as the Range Rover and the Disco.....

The Porsche Boxter is a throw-away car so Porsche can keep the cash flow to make their real performance machines.

[DiscoDancingRover]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

1995 Land Rover Discovery, with light envy
2003 Acura 3.2TL
1998 Volvo V70 XC

[RasterMaster]

Hey Chris!

Rovers even look WEAK!

Check out the OkC Chapter Page!

[H2Norcal]

I am done poking each other in the eye. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I am leaving with the understanding we have large differences in opinions. Good to have you on the Forum.

Have a great Fourth of July.

[DiscoDancingRover]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RasterMaster:
Hey Chris!

Rovers even look WEAK!

Check out the OkC Chapter Page!<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I KNOW! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif

1995 Land Rover Discovery, with light envy
2003 Acura 3.2TL
1998 Volvo V70 XC

[Steve R]

Hey...I'm VERY happy that Chris in on the forum. While we may discuss and argue merits of various vehicles...he's still our buddy, and much like Mike....is very welcome here..and appreciated!

With that said...Chris, you're a fu&#^ing blindass moron!!! What the hell are you.....just kidding.

I think the pic of the H2 you show is rather peculiar. The front left wheel is under extreme compression and has the sway bar pulling up very strong on the right wheel. The rear doesn't look too impressive, but you have to remember there already exist a large gap between between the wheel & well.

Still, the H2 articulates significantly more then the H1. Trust me...it does very well offroad and one thing is very consistent: it continually surprises MANY people how well it actually does.

Chris...do you really believe/think the cayenne can compete against a Disco????? Seriosly?

[RasterMaster]

SteveR,

Chris knows I like to rib him about the Rovers! Besides being a fellow Hoosier, he has become the new Chat moderator!

Check out the OkC Chapter Page!

[Steve R]

Oh yeah....Chris is a swell guy. He's also very very active over on the gay-pride forum as well. I mean...well....with his Disco and all. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[DiscoDancingRover]

Thanks you steve, but you forgot to comment on the awesome articulation I had going there. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I will see how it does, but from what I have seen it looks pretty cool. I will just wait to see how it does perform.

1995 Land Rover Discovery, with light envy
2003 Acura 3.2TL
1998 Volvo V70 XC

[DiscoDancingRover]

Steve I do kinda fancy the miata and the VW beetle...joking http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

1995 Land Rover Discovery, with light envy
2003 Acura 3.2TL
1998 Volvo V70 XC

[This message was edited by Chris on 07-04-03 at 12:42 PM.]

[DiscoDancingRover]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by H2Norcal:
I guess I see this the same as the Range Rover and the Disco.....<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The disco wasn't cheap or anything like that. You are thinking of the freelander.

1995 Land Rover Discovery, with light envy
2003 Acura 3.2TL
1998 Volvo V70 XC

[H2Norcal]

So the picture wasn't impressive, agreed. That is about as much clearance you can get on the H2 before you have tire lift. Moments after that shot the tire was off the ground and I was teetering.

I know the Disco isn't cheap but it is far lower-end than the Range....I see the H2 being the Range-class and the H3 being the Disco when it is all said and done.

[ticket2ride]

What kind of silly question is this? Why would anyone be torn between a HUMMER and a minivan?

[Steve R]

Chris,

That pic is unfair...that front tire would have to drop 16" to touch the ground and the rear would have to be sucked upto the roof-racks!

Ya know...Alec W. went wheeling with Brianfriend recently. He said Brians rig had it's tires up in the air all over the place: that thing looked like a dog marking its territory on a street with LOTS of trees! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[MAC]

Not my words, may or may not be my views.

AutoWeek. 7/7/03.
WOW! THERE’S NO SAGEBRUSH GROWING under the tires of Porsche’s new off-road vehicle, Cayenne, as AutoWeek subscribers gave it top honors. Should it come as any surprise, really, considering the way you feel about the 911? You obviously have discerning taste: Porsche’s Cayenne beat last year’s winner, the Land Rover Range Rover, as well as the BMW X5, the new Hummer H2 and the Volvo XC90—none of which are shabby trucks.

Cayenne gives Porsche dealers a truck Porsche owners can park next to their cars; according to Porsche’s research, half of its sports car owners already own sport/utes. Two Cayenne models are available: the S and the Turbo. Both are powered by 4.5-liter V8s, but the Turbo produces a whopping 450 hp. With horsepower comes speed, as the Turbo model is way fast and way at the top of the truck price food chain at $90,000. Cayenne definitely puts the “sport” in sport/utility.

[MAC]

(08:30 July 07, 2003) 2003 Porsche Cayenne Turbo. By THE EDITORS OF AUTOWEEK

DATE IN FLEET: June 12-19 AS-TESTED PRICE: $94,130
POWERTRAIN: 4.5-liter twin-turbo V8; 4wd, six-speed automatic HP: 450 @ 6000 rpm TORQUE: 457 @ 2250-4750 rpm. CURB WEIGHT: 5192 pounds

WILSON: I know I should like this. It works, it’s bloody fast, and I’m way past my beef that “Porsche shouldn’t build an SUV.” I mean, yes, Porsche doesn’t need an answer to Lexus or Range Rover or even BMW—Porsches are what they are. But it does need a volume-generator to help dealers survive and upgrade their operations, because, as we’ve seen in several long-term experiences, much of the dealer network lacks luster. So, okay, I’ll give it to ’em.

Not a Porsche? Well, what the heck would it be, then? It’s not a VW. This sucker goes like blazes, and you can even stop it from speed without too much drama (maybe no drama—everything in your experience says “This is gonna be bad” so your pulse rate goes up, then the Cayenne just stops... not quite like a Turbo or even a Boxster, but a whole lot better than anything this big should do). It grips in a turn as much as I’m willing to risk in a thing that feels this tall. It doesn’t lean significantly, it goes where you point it, you can drive it on the throttle. It’s a big, tall front-engine Porsche (maybe people who don’t remember previous front-engine Porsches won’t make the connection).

However... no sale. This is too heavy, too tall and just plain too un-fun for my tastes. Yeah, I know, it’s my old “Why am I sitting up here and why’s it weigh this much” complaint about all SUVs. I put the suspension on its lowest setting, I turned off the PSM (intrusive bugger that it is) and went for a quick drive around the lake. It performed well, but I wasn’t happy afterward—it wasn’t something I’d choose to do for kicks. The Cayenne doesn’t have the lithe handling or nice steering you find in the X5 (another vehicle I know I should like but don’t much). It might make better numbers, but it doesn’t feel better, and driving fun is all about feel, not just numbers. All the controls feel heavy, like this was a 928 that has been eating Double Whoppers with cheese at Burger King for the past 20 years. That was a “man’s car” in the vernacular of the day and this one has that same hefty feel about it.

Of the X5, I once wrote that you can teach a pig to dance, but when you’re done, you find yourself dancing with a pig. Substitute hippo for pig and you’ve got my take on driving this. Besides which, I really dislike the way it looks. Those commercials with the people doing outrageous things to get a look at it are ridiculous—no one is going to look at this and exclaim “Jeepers H. Christmas, that’s the most beautiful thing I’ve ever seen.” It ain’t as ugly as an Element or Aztek, granted, but Mrs. Wilson gets credit for describing it: “It looks like it’s out of proPorsche...” Bottom line: I won’t complain about Porsche making an SUV anymore so long as no one makes me drive it again. Deal?

MANDEL: I believe we need to burn some incense around here. Think positive thoughts. Put your subconscious in a happy place and expand your mind. Now: Is there room to place emphasis on the sport portion of the sport/ute equation? (Let us please not debate the worthiness or value of such vehicles. They are here to stay, so just suck it up.) And if you agree said “sport” influence is a valued modifier, which company is better to inculcate sport in trucks than Porsche? I do not mind “high-effort” switchgear; it should be higher effort than that in the Boxster, because in so doing it imparts the notion of ruggedness.

Will this 5200-pound truck make it off-road? Only when it has to turn around on the polo fields of Palm Beach... The performance in the turbo Cayenne is pretty spectacular, as it should be. This kind of acceleration and cornering capabilities belie its girth. This is more nimble than even expected. And at $94,000, is it not at the pinnacle of truckdom? You bet.

Forget for a moment that this vehicle, derided by purist enthusiasts and Porschephiles, goes outside the lines of what is and is not a pure Porsche. That it has added sales in a weakened economy, that it has given the company independence through size, that it has redefined and solidified a niche, are all paramount to it and the industry.

Do I like it? Yes. Would I buy this? If I were one of the 60 percent of Porsche owners who have a sport/ute in my garage anyway and could afford it, absolutely. Would I carry anything in it other than people and golf clubs? No way.

[Steve R]

Uh....back to the articulation thing: Articulate this Christoph!

front left wheel up about 20", front right on the ground...the rear is doing the opposite. It's no rock-crawler, but it's no rigid-board either!

[DiscoDancingRover]

Alright I am going to the cayenne driving experence in chicago in august. I will tell you all how it does from my experence there.

[Steve R]

yeah....I bet they'll have a course laid-out that suits the Cayenne just perfectly: as steep an approach as it can handle, as big a rock it can drive over and as steep a side-slope as it can handle.

I'm seeing these things all over town: it's a glorified station-wagon with a big engine. About the only thing is has going for it is the 4x4 system.

[DiscoDancingRover]

Well of course they would, but i think it will be fun. Hell you get a free lunch, how could you argue against that!!!

[Steve R]

How can you argue against a free lunch????

in one word: MAC

[H2Norcal]

You know it really doesn't matter how well the Cayenne is received.

Steve is right (again), it really is a glorified upper class minivan for the gated community types to say they have a Porsche SUV. It really has nothing to do with off-roading. I mean please, can you imagine running into a Cayenne 15 miles out in the wilderness winching out of a rut.

Uh, wait a minute, I can. Hum, I am seeing something here, it is a man and a woman. He is dressed in Gucci loafers and slacks and she is in a silk dress, they have a picnic lunch (with grey poupon of course) and wait, there's more....um I see two AAA towing guys towing their Cayenne out while the couple sits on their checkboard blanket.... Yeah, this Cayenne could be an off-road vehicle by golly.

[DiscoDancingRover]

HAHA!!!! I tink there was a guy on gay...i mean discoweb who bought one and was gonna try it out to see how it worked. Let me see if i can find that and i will ask him about it.

[Steve R]

Hey guys....come on...

Let's put a clean perspective on this. The Cayenne obviously has a great 4x4 system...all four tires turning with some form of traction control and perhaps even some locker action....so we know is has the go-forward thing down solid. I'm sure it even has a 4-low as well and a few other swift gadgets.

The other aspect to being a capable offroad vehicle comes from clearance and the general lay-out of the design. The approach/departure angle is hardly there and the clearance isn't all that spectacular. Remember that Arrowhead video I made....well....I sincerely doubt it would make it up that very first hill....especially with those tires!

Now...jack it up a few inches and put on some large-wide all-terrains...now you've got something!!!!

As has been said: Porsche realized that a HUGE amount of their owners already have SUV's in the garage, so IF they make an SUV....their loyal customers would buy them.

It's almost as if they used their great name and reputation and cashed in on it.... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

What a novel concept!!!!!!!!!!

Tell ya what I'm gonna do: tomorrow I'll call a few local Porsche dealers and invite any of their customers to join our club!

But let's not forget, the Cayenne is probably going to be a higher rated vehicle then the H2: it's MUCH easier to get into and out of, is faster, better handling, better mpg, parks easier and has less 'blind-spots'. I bet it's very luxurious and is built to exacting standards too.

God Bless America and our freedom choice, let's embrace the Cayenne as yet another vehicle to join us on the roads. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Save the negative energy for those rancid Disco's!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

kidding http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif we love ya Chris....even if you're planning on getting a D90.

[DiscoDancingRover]

Yes that d90 is rancid, even more so then the disco! Steve went wheeling today and got some pics. Jason said it was alright so i will post them tonight...maybe... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[DiscoDancingRover]

Steve I might get an h2 but they are just damn expensive for me. an 18 year old DOES NOT need at $50k car! No matter what!

[DiscoDancingRover]

Alec what car was that? And Steve look down a bit for my pictures... http://www.elcova.com/groupee/forums?a=tpc&s=2826088551&f=1236038291&m=2346064663&r=2316065663#2316065663

[MAC]

I received a mailing from local Porsche dealer, giving $4K off the Cayenne S. I guess there is no waiting list for Cayenne. I wonder why it is not doing so well as Hummer or other SUVs. It is priced almost exactly same as H2, which is a cheap price for a Porsche, smaller and it is a Porsche, you would think it should be more acceptable to most buyers.

[DIANE]

We just bought a Cayenne (traded in the P.O.S. Jag). I will never give up my Hummer, but the Cayenne does handle very well on the highway. It is quick and fun to drive. I drive the both, and there is no comparison. They handle differently, drive differently, and the feel completely different.

[MAC]

Diane, sounds like a good choice.
Next year, we will sell the perfect Jaguar XJVP sedan and Cayenne is on my very short list of replacement: Porsche Cayenne, MB S500 or new BMW7. Can't think of anything else now. What were on your list of replacement consideration?

[DiscoDancingRover]

MAC from what I have heard and seen they are selling very well. My dealer can't keep them on the lot. I see them around a lot, not as much as the H2, but I see at least 5 a day. And also when looking at a new car, go check out the Audi A8L, very nice vehicle, better then the benz or BMW, IMHO. But then I don't see why you would get rid of your VP, great car, in fact we are getting one next year, in British Racing Green http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"

[MAC]

My Audi was a total POS, every inch of it, 3 repairs a week, different things; and it has "VW" logo on parts everywhere. Many friends who owned Audis had same experience, never admitted it until they sold the cars; in reports I read, Audi themselves admitted that. Beautiful cars with excellent handling, it tried and tries but it will never be on the same level as MB, BMW or Porsche. I heard people say Audi owners are people who can't afford a MB/BMW/Porsche, may not be true, but why even bother with Audi if you can buy a MB/BMW/Porsche? I promised myself I'll never ever buy an Audi again, period.

Stay away from 95 Jag XJ, not that it has problem, but 96 2nd yr model had major changes, 75% thicker and quieter glass, 4.5" extra rear leg room, 2" extra rear head room (done due to John Major's complaint), and many other major structure changes. Ours is absolutely elegant, perfect and reliable, but simply got tired of driving it after many years.

I do see many Cayennes everywhere, no matter, a Porsche is a Porsche and it will always be a Porsche. But you don't give $4K off MSRP few months out of gate and without people asking for it, you only do it because you have to and you are worried.

[DiscoDancingRover]

We will be getting a 05 XJVP, I love that car, its so beautiful. My dad is in the same boat, he does not want to buy my mom an Audi (it is his 30 year anniversary (sp?) gift to her) because of what he has heard, I believe that audi is much better then it used to be in the past, from what i have heard from people.

"Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind"

[DIANE]

MAC, our Jag was far from perfect. It went into a fail safe mode on I95 while traveling at 80 mph. Our speed instantly dropped to 45 mph and we were almost killed by a truck. We immediately took it to the Jag dealer (it was under warranty, only 36k miles) and were told that Jaguar would not pay to fix it because the computer readout did not show the exact problem. Needless to say we were beyond angry. We subsequently told them where they could put the Jag and went next door to the Porsche dealer and bought the Cayenne. We had actually considered a 2004 Jag until this happened.
My husband raced Porsches (prior to the children) and I know he has been dying to buy a new one. The children make a sports car out of the question so the Cayenne was next. After reading all of the negative comments, we were pleasantly surprised with the car.

[MAC]

Diane, What happened to your Jaguar maybe was caused by a chip which was in a smog/cat converter recall, happened to me too on the freeway, but the dealer took care of that N/C.

Chris, the unwritten marketing line for Audi in Germany/Europe for decades has been "a poorman's Benz." I heard that from my Dutch and German friends and counterparts who own Audis, and I read it in auto magazines. There is no shame in that, in fact Audi used that to the max to sell Audis in Europe, and it is their basic marketing strategy. In a lengthy BusinessWeek interview with Dr. Piech, owner and grandson of Dr. Porsche, one time boss at Porsche, one time boss at Audi who was credited with saving Audi from death and started all these new models, later chairman of VW, now chairman of VW supervisory board(which is the real boss in German corporations), he himself acknowledged the quality problems at VW and Audi, and tried to change that. New ones could be better, but I won't bet my money on it. There are other choices, I may not be a rich man, but I certainly don't want to be a "poorman". http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[DIANE]

Thanks for the info Mac. No one ever notified us about a recall. The Jag dealer certainly didn't.

[MAC]

Diane, first of all, I don't know if that was true in your case, secondly that info is useless to you now. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif The dealer makes whole world of difference, doesn't it? If the dealer is nice, I'd forgive them for almost everything, if not that brand loses its shine. I took the Jag to a nearby independent shop I known for years, but they could not fix the Jaguar after several tries in several weeks, finally I took it to the Jaguar dealer 20 miles away thinking this must be a $2000 repair bill, I usually can guess the worst case repair bills. But the nice professional told me the truth about this old recall which I filed away and never took care. It was free. He knew I didn't know, he could've charged me $1000 and I'd thought it was my lucky day. Honest man and honest Jaguar Redwood city dealership. This was my fault by not taking care the recall.

I saw a white Cayenne a few minutes ago when I went out to pick up my 14 yr old son. Nice white color, seems better looking than the blue and charcoal I've seen many times. Cayenne is good choice.

[DCfromCapeCod]

Both Cayennes and Hummer are currently being heavily discounted...there is no waiting list for either.

I am currently looking at a Cayenne Turbo....the appearance is mitigated by the 450+ HP.

[MAC]

DC, at least Hummer had a 8-10 months run without discount. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

If I were to do it again, knowing what I know about Hummer, I'd go with the Hummer without any hesitation. It is by far a better choice by 1,000%. My major problem now is that I am so used to the huge Hummer size, anything smaller just doesn't satisfy me anymore. MB S500 or BMW7 were big sedans but now they are no different than a Honda to me, in fact all cars are just cars now, also both are too common around here. (BMW7 does have very nice new gadgets.) Porsche Cayenne S will do just fine as a 2nd vehicle, price right, I don't need to spend serious money for a turbo Cayenne. I'll wait for 1 year new/old used Cayenne S, $40K?

[Steve R]

Now don't read into this too far....but I'm surprised to hear that MAC isn't thrilled with the Cayenne. I would have thought it a better suited vehicle for his needs, purposes and uses?

[DCfromCapeCod]

Given the current tax laws, the $100K Cayenne Turbo will cost me about $57K. Next year that might not be true.

I'm not knocking the Hummer, I still have a pending order for one. I am merely testing the waters.....buying the Cayenne will let me keep over $20K that I otherwise would be sending to the IRS.

Great thing about this country...you can buy whatever makes you grin.

[Steve R]

A little something we all tend to overlook:

Whatever massive amount we depreciate and thusly save on taxes today....will have to be accounted for when we sell these things and they haven't devaluated to that extent later.

Essentially we have to re-capture the write-off. In the end...we depreciate whatever the actual devaluation is, the huge tax write-off is only an up-front candy piece intended to make you feel wealthier, spend more in an effort to increase marginal demand and create warm fuzzy thoughts about the originator of such legislation. Don't believe the hype...we basically just get that tax-savings on loan.

Damn you for making me use my brain and recalling some economics from my college days!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

There are a LOT of great values on used vehicles in great shape for under $15,000. They won't turn eyes, impress anyone or have that great new smell with a big warranty. So if you have the bucks to go beyond that simple $15K window....you best have the money not to really care about $20K here and there.

Now, if you'll excuse me....I'd like to return to being comfortably numb about the real value of buying such an extravagant toy. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[MAC]

Nothing personal, DC, but that sounds a bit far fetched to me. It takes you 1 year to think about $50K Hummer and search for discount, now you gonna buy a $100K Cayenne just like that? somehow the math and logic just don't add up, very fuzzy indeed. Not just $50K or $100K or your tax numbers, the whole picture is out of focus. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

If money does grow on your tree, then you could've bought a Hummer last year, play with it get the tax credit, dump it and buy a new Cayenne, play with it take the tax credit and move on to next new love. You need to make very good money to be able to use tax credit that size, and it takes some guts and risk to use the full credit, plus tax credit is much over-rated. Anyway, at least you have a good head to pick a nice Porsche SUV. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[DCfromCapeCod]

Correct....but I would rather have the $43,000 today.

When I sell it at some time in the future, I will have the selling price come to me as income. This can be mitigated by being in a lower tax bracket in the future and/or it can be offset by purchasing a new vehicle.

The bottom line is that the savings is in today's dollars...I literally transfer the money from my tax account into my own account. This is far better than a much lesser amount in the future...especially when I can defer taxes on this forever....or until they are a fraction of the $43K I am pocketing today.

Obviously it is far more prudent to save the money altogether.....but if the future is planned for than there is nothing wrong with living a little today.

You can't take it with you.

Mac - Not sure what is out-of-focus for you...I didn't spend a year looking for a Hummer...I recall starting a search somewhere around June. I have owned Porsches for 15 years so I am always looking at their products. I said I was merely "testing the waters"...I did not say I was buying one tomorrow.

The tax law changed in late May so all this is new for everyone - 3 months ago the limit was $24K.

My income is more than enough to take advantage of this credit and I see little or no risk to do so. The tax credit is a HUGE loophole...if anything, I think it is under-rated.

[Steve R]

I hear ya Alec....but let's not bang our drum too loud: I think I hear the lone-dissenter coming!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Say Alec...I hear the LR boys call you the conquerer of the Holy Cross....care to elaborate on that?

[DCfromCapeCod]

Looking at my registration date shows I started looking on 5/26.....just about when the tax law changed.