Twin Turbo H2?

[Induction Concepts]

Hello, my name is Rad Craig and I own Induction Concepts. If this post is not allwed, I apologize. Let me know and I'll remove it. I'm not selling anything, just looking for some info/feedback.

We design and fabricate high-end twin turbo systems. I wanted to see if there was any interest in a twin turbo system for an H2?

I am very picky, a stickler for detail, and want things done right. We only use the finest parts and materials available, no shortcuts, no compromises. My only goal is to build the finest turbo systems on the planet, period.

Not only do we build the hot side out of stainless steel, but we build the charged air side out of stainless also, hell even our bracketry is stainless. Everything is TIG welded. We were the first turbo company to insist on items like this, 3 years ago, right from the start. We believe in only building very complete systems, not leaving components out to make the kits 'appear' cheaper, like pricing them without turbos, fuel system components, etc. For instance, on one of our kits that requires it, we don't just include new custom A/C hoses, we include a new evaporator, new o-rings, new compressor oil, o-ring lube, etc. Over $200 worth of just A/C system recharge items, so the job will be done right.

We are not a huge conglomerate, or 'tuner' bolt-on business, we are just a small, humble shop. We are hot rodders, true 'car guys'. We do this because its our passion. We don't charge people an extra $20k just because they drive an H2 or a Viper, to us, they are just another hot rod, and we live for all of them.

We don't build 'half-way' kits. We don't leave parts out to make the kits 'appear' less expensive. We don't use cheap or inferior parts and materials to bring the cost down. We design the systems like they should be designed.

Here are a couple of pics of our work.

1000+hp system
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/images/nummy/nummysbeforeffw2.jpg



1000+hp system
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/gallery/Mach1/images/alldone4.JPG


Previous, non-turbo project: 1350hp, pump gas, daily driver, 534ci, 600hp fogger, all accessories (AC, ps, pb, cruise, etc.)
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/images/truck13.JPG
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/images/truck16.JPG
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/images/534ssbracketry.jpg


These are some pics of our TIG welding work:
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/gallery2/albums/Nummy/coloredweldbead1.jpg

http://www.inductionconcepts.com/gallery2/albums/Nummy/coloredweldbead2.jpg

http://www.inductionconcepts.com/gallery2/albums/Nummy/coloredweldbead3.jpg

I challenge you to find better craftsmanship anywhere.

We focus on the 600-2000hp range. We build each system around a real street vehicle, all accessories, all emissions, perfect drivability. Twin turbo systems are our primary focus, but we tackle whatever the customer needs, and do it all with the same care and attention to detail. Engine work, drivetrain, custom suspension, the above truck has a custom airbag suspension featuring a 6-link rear suspension and 14" of travel. Rides like a caddy, handles like its on rails. It will lay the frame on the ground, but still raise up higher than stock.

Basically my philosophy is that I design and build this stuff as if it were for me personally, and I like nice things, done right. I treat people the way I want to be treated, and it works for us. I believe many of you here share this same mindset.

There's so much junk out there today, poor quality, just seems like people don't care about their work anymore, just the $$$$.

So, I'd like to know if there is any interest in a twin turbo kit for H2's. We're finished with the current prototype and preparing to go to production with it and are trying to select our next prototype.

If you'd like more info, feel free to send me an email (rad@inductionconcepts.com) or give me a call (number is on the website, contact us page).

I'd like your feedback if you'd be so kind. Thanks.

[Induction Concepts]

Hello, my name is Rad Craig and I own Induction Concepts. If this post is not allwed, I apologize. Let me know and I'll remove it. I'm not selling anything, just looking for some info/feedback.

We design and fabricate high-end twin turbo systems. I wanted to see if there was any interest in a twin turbo system for an H2?

I am very picky, a stickler for detail, and want things done right. We only use the finest parts and materials available, no shortcuts, no compromises. My only goal is to build the finest turbo systems on the planet, period.

Not only do we build the hot side out of stainless steel, but we build the charged air side out of stainless also, hell even our bracketry is stainless. Everything is TIG welded. We were the first turbo company to insist on items like this, 3 years ago, right from the start. We believe in only building very complete systems, not leaving components out to make the kits 'appear' cheaper, like pricing them without turbos, fuel system components, etc. For instance, on one of our kits that requires it, we don't just include new custom A/C hoses, we include a new evaporator, new o-rings, new compressor oil, o-ring lube, etc. Over $200 worth of just A/C system recharge items, so the job will be done right.

We are not a huge conglomerate, or 'tuner' bolt-on business, we are just a small, humble shop. We are hot rodders, true 'car guys'. We do this because its our passion. We don't charge people an extra $20k just because they drive an H2 or a Viper, to us, they are just another hot rod, and we live for all of them.

We don't build 'half-way' kits. We don't leave parts out to make the kits 'appear' less expensive. We don't use cheap or inferior parts and materials to bring the cost down. We design the systems like they should be designed.

Here are a couple of pics of our work.

1000+hp system
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/images/nummy/nummysbeforeffw2.jpg



1000+hp system
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/gallery/Mach1/images/alldone4.JPG


Previous, non-turbo project: 1350hp, pump gas, daily driver, 534ci, 600hp fogger, all accessories (AC, ps, pb, cruise, etc.)
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/images/truck13.JPG
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/images/truck16.JPG
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/images/534ssbracketry.jpg


These are some pics of our TIG welding work:
http://www.inductionconcepts.com/gallery2/albums/Nummy/coloredweldbead1.jpg

http://www.inductionconcepts.com/gallery2/albums/Nummy/coloredweldbead2.jpg

http://www.inductionconcepts.com/gallery2/albums/Nummy/coloredweldbead3.jpg

I challenge you to find better craftsmanship anywhere.

We focus on the 600-2000hp range. We build each system around a real street vehicle, all accessories, all emissions, perfect drivability. Twin turbo systems are our primary focus, but we tackle whatever the customer needs, and do it all with the same care and attention to detail. Engine work, drivetrain, custom suspension, the above truck has a custom airbag suspension featuring a 6-link rear suspension and 14" of travel. Rides like a caddy, handles like its on rails. It will lay the frame on the ground, but still raise up higher than stock.

Basically my philosophy is that I design and build this stuff as if it were for me personally, and I like nice things, done right. I treat people the way I want to be treated, and it works for us. I believe many of you here share this same mindset.

There's so much junk out there today, poor quality, just seems like people don't care about their work anymore, just the $$$$.

So, I'd like to know if there is any interest in a twin turbo kit for H2's. We're finished with the current prototype and preparing to go to production with it and are trying to select our next prototype.

If you'd like more info, feel free to send me an email (rad@inductionconcepts.com) or give me a call (number is on the website, contact us page).

I'd like your feedback if you'd be so kind. Thanks.

[KenP]

Wow, you sure have come a long way in a short time: http://forums.mustangworks.com/showthread.php?t=24859
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Posted by RodsbyRad:
I have a stock 95 GT with MAC longtubes and flowmasters. I am trying to decide between turbo(s) and supercharger.

My question is how much hp can I get with the stock motor. I'm trying to work off a budget right now and have $3000 - $3500 to spend. I can buy a supercharger or maybe a turbo kit (possibly used) OR go with heads, cam and intake, but not both at the same time.

Is it possible to get 400+ rwhp without hurting the motor in the stock config?

I plan to bolt whatever I get on, and have fun with it while building a 331 in the next year or so. When I put that in I want to turn the hp up to 600-700rwhp and keep it a daily driver so it must be dependable. I already have one project that is really too wild to drive daily (1350hp pump gas):

http://www.rodsbyrad.com/534SS.htm

What do you guys recommend?

Emmisions control isn't a concern as they don't test where I live, but daily driven and dependable are a concern. I know this can be done, I'm just not sure how yet. I want to keep my A/C and other creature comforts. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>And More:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> The guy at Pro Turbo is very helpfull. I don't mind being the first one. He said he has sold one more in this state (Oklahoma) but didn't mention the city.

I'm kind of turbo biased also. Not because I have one, but because they are in the power sooner and don't loose the 15-20% to drive them. I just think they make more power with the same amount of boost...sure I'll get flamed for that.

I've been on turbomustangs.com and also to turbo tech's website. I haven't gotten a price from them yet though. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You also had bad luck on the Viper forum:
http://vca2.viperclub.org/forums/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Board=UBB2&Number=9234&page=11&view=collapsed&sb=7&o=

[KenP]

I knew that truck looked familiar. You've been talking about it for a few years now. [URL=http://autos.groups.yahoo.com/group/chevytrucks2/message/2603<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Date: Tue May 21, 2002 2:16 pm
Subject: RE: Chevy Trucks Re: Hello group I am new .....

Why don't all the members chime in and wake this list up. Let's hear what
you guys/gals have, any links to pics would also be nice. I'll start off.

I have a '90 Chevy 454SS pickup. I designed a custom airbag suspension for
it that features a 6-link and panhard bar in the rear that allows me to have
over 14" of travel. It will lay frame as well as raise up as high as a
stocker...new concept, a frame-laying truck you can actually drive. It's
got 20" Budnik Famosa's and a 1350hp pump-gas motor that dyno'd at 742hp on
the motor plus it was built for the custom 600hp Nitrous Xpress fogger
system. The motor is grouted (lower half), o-ringed, fully studded block.

So I've got a frame-laying, 9-second, daily driver that has power windows,
doors, tilt, cruise, A/C and runs on pump gas!

Go to this link and pick any of the links on that page. There are literally
hundreds of pics, motor/tranny specs, etc.
http://www.rodsbyrad.com/534SS.htm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>None of your old links work which should make EVERYONE worry. What happened and why did you lay low for a few years?

More proof you may not know what you are doing: http://www.corral.net/forums/showthread.php?t=148804&highlight=rodsbyrad
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I installed a used 255lph in tank pump this week and just got my new autometer fuel pressure guage installed and hooked up.

I drove it for the first time today and during a 6 mile cruise home on the highway I saw the pressure go as high as 84psi.

I know this can't be right. What would cause this? A stuck fuel pressure regulator maybe? The rest of the fuel system is bone stock, no adjustable fuel pressure regulator, the stock one.

What should the fuel pressure normally be and how can I fix this problem? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Kevin B]

This should be good http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif.

[KenP]

So the Mustang GT was yours. You bought the Cobra and the Chevy truck is yours.
http://www.corral.net/forums/member.php?u=34230
Heck, I wonder if the remaining cars on your site belong to family members, or just Buds...

Oh, I bet you used this site, http://www.jvmoneymakers.com/jointventureforum/jointventuresonlineforums/c4-corvette-forum.php before.

I will be sure to avoid you at all costs.

[KenP]

Posted by N2ITNSD:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> This should be good </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, as long as we all avoid Rad Craig.

[KenP]

Oh, and whatever happened to your original business plan... I mean your second business plan?
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129190&highlight=induction+concepts
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I'm trying to help come up with a name for a new company. This company is going to design a brand new car, from scratch. The cars will resemble the cars of old (retro) but with a completely new design, all new body, interior, modern drivetrain, electronics, etc. It is not affiliated with any of the Big Three and therefore not tied to a single type of car, or hobbled by their burocracy and accountants.

Anyway, I want to come up with a name that says new, modern, performance, cutting edge, etc.

I liked Modern Motorsports, but that domain name is already gone.

So make with the suggestions already!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>You know, you've asked some SCARY questions over at http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/ for a professional engine builder, fabricator and tuner. Yet, you offer NO advice. Questions about boost levels, pistons, all kinds of stuff. Scary stuff. Heck, maybe I should go through there and copy a bunch of them for the folks on this forum. Then again, you haven't bugged them since Jan '04 so I guess that learning curve is really kicking in....

[Induction Concepts]

The Black GT is mine, the truck was mine. The rest (Bullitt, red GT, Mach 1, '01 Cobra, '03 Cobra, '05 GT, '99 Cobra, etc.) are customer cars.

Yes, I've spent three years on R&D, instead of rushing a product out the door for the customers to find the problems for us, in order to make a quick buck. Yes, I have only been doing turbos for 3 years. I'm a quick study, what can I say. When you love something, you tend to pick it up very easily. I am one of the few fortunate enough to find, and do, what I love for a living.

I didn't know how to TIG weld before I started this either...any kind of welding for that matter, but that doesn't seem to make much of a difference now, does it? I've had guys that have been welding for 20 years, brag on my TIG welding (stainless and aluminum). The guys from ProCharger even complimented us on the design and quality at a recent event. We are currently featured in the April 2005 issue of Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords (p90 - "Sideways At Any Speed").

Rodsbyrad was just a site I put up when I was building the truck, before Induction Concepts. It was mainly to show the progress on the truck. I let the domain expire a long time ago.

I am here (this company) because I went through the same things that every turbo kit customer has went through. That is what inspired me to do this. All of the horror stories, people paying for kits, then the company not answering the phones or returning emails (Incon, TDC, Innovative Turbo Solutions (ITS), etc.), shipping kits that were missing half the parts and the other half were wrong or didn't fit, practically non-existent quality control, horrible customer service, selling 'kits' that you end up spending another $2000-3000 in order to get the parts it should have included, in order to get to the power level you thought you were getting, in the first place, etc. What appalled me was the fact that all of this was the 'norm' and customers just accepted most of these things. I have several customers now who also experienced this first hand, a couple that actually paid for kits and never got them (TDC, ITS). Anyone who has researched a turbo kit at all, knows exactly what I'm talking about.

I talked to the companies, talked to their customers, did the research, and ended up buying a used Incon kit because it was the only kit that I knew for sure that I could get all the parts and components to.

After going through all of this, I thought I could do a better job. I know I'm not the first guy that saw a problem and started his own business to improve the product/industry.

I didn't like calling a turbo kit maker, asking questions on the phone and being treated like I was wasting their time, they were in a hurry, or that they had bigger fish to fry than to mess with me. Same thing for responding to emails. When I am excited about a product, and take my time to send an email to a manufacturer to ask them about their product, I don't want to wait a week for a response. Hell, by then I've already moved on and found another solution. I frequently spend 45mins - 2 hours on the phone with a customer, making sure that all of their questions are answered completely. After all, it's a pretty large purchase and I want to not only answer all of their questions, but ensure that our products match up to their goals. If someone calls and they are only wanting 500hp, I will recommend they go with a supercharger, nitrous or maybe even an lower priced single turbo kit, in fact I have sent PTK many customers for this very reason. If that is their goal, our product is just not cost effective for that horsepower level. Sure, I may lose a few sales, but I sleep well at night.

Instead of searching for old information, back before I even got into this, try searching for some relevant information. It sounds like you are only out to bash. Search on "Induction Concepts" and see what you find. Look on our site, in our forums, see what the visitors there have to say. We were the FIRST aftermarket manufacturer...not just turbos, all of the automotive aftermarket, to have our own forums, where the visitors and potential customers could talk directly with the company, ask questions, get answers and take an active role in the development of THEIR product.

You can bash all you want, but there is no substance to it. We have a product that is unrivaled in quality, craftsmanship, design, and it includes excellent customer service. What more could you want?

[Induction Concepts]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
Oh, and whatever happened to your original business plan... I mean your second business plan?
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129190&highlight=induction+concepts
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I'm trying to help come up with a name for a new company. This company is going to design a brand new car, from scratch. The cars will resemble the cars of old (retro) but with a completely new design, all new body, interior, modern drivetrain, electronics, etc. It is not affiliated with any of the Big Three and therefore not tied to a single type of car, or hobbled by their burocracy and accountants.

Anyway, I want to come up with a name that says new, modern, performance, cutting edge, etc.

I liked Modern Motorsports, but that domain name is already gone.

So make with the suggestions already!
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>You know, you've asked some SCARY questions over at http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/ for a professional engine builder, fabricator and tuner. Yet, you offer NO advice. Questions about boost levels, pistons, all kinds of stuff. Scary stuff. Heck, maybe I should go through there and copy a bunch of them for the folks on this forum. Then again, you haven't bugged them since Jan '04 so I guess that learning curve is really kicking in.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That was a different project. I was talking to the guy that designed the Gen V Camaro, featured in Popular Hot Rodding several times. After some investigations, it just turned out to be too monumental of a task.

I asked the questions on LS1 tech to find out what the stock shortblocks could take. Any time you are learning about a new prototype, you have to learn about the strengths and weaknesses of the shortblock, valvetrain, transmission/drivetrain, fuel systems, etc. Every car manufacturer is different. Unlike the rest, I don't just add an FMU and call the fuel system done because that is a bandaid, I investigate and find the proper way to upgrade the fuel system, like a properly calibrated MAF, injectors and fuel pump. The supercharger manufacturers and other kit makers include the FMUs because they are cheap and it keeps the cost of their kits down. It's "good enough". Well, to me, good enough...isn't.

Do you have some personal vendetta against me? Or are you just related to or own one of my competitors? You sure are doing a lot of work to try and make me look bad. The internet is a pretty easy place to find information and use it out of context, especially when you have a unique name to search for.

I've already told you about the start of this company in my previous post, look for something current. It would be different if my name was Hennessey.

[DH22G]

yea id say there is a market... want to prototype my truck... for a free kit?

[KenP]

You are wrong. I originally thought you offered a decent chance for someone here to get some work done on their rig. Then I started checking around, doing some due diligence, and found your questions and comments. They sounded elementary for someone with your "experience". That threw up the red flag. Had you worked for years in a reputable custom shop, or tuner's shop, you wouldn't be asking where to get dish pistons or how much pressure a small block could take. You would know the answer.

It is not necessary to read "your" forums. Of course they are going to be positive.

I don't know you from a hole in the ground but I have seen too many people ripped off by others "offering" freebies. I notice you didn't get a Viper dropped off. And no effort was put into this, just a few minutes during commercials.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> It would be different if my name was Hennessey. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> That's not true. Hennessey has had their own problems lately.

Good luck.

[Induction Concepts]

I am not an engine builder, that is not our primary focus. Sure, we can handle that task for a customer, but we don't build the engine, we will remove it, take it to a reputable shop (like VT Competition Engines for the Ford stuff), have it built to spec, then reinstall it. We choose different shops based on the brand (auto manufacturer). Someone that is great with GM stuff may not be as knowledgeable on Mopar stuff. Many prefer to specialize in a single brand.

Like I said, i was doing research, being thorough. I don't do things half way, or guess. Every manufacturers shortblock is different, some will take more power than others, they are all different compression ratios, even on the same car model, one year newer/older, some heads are more resistant to detonation than others. Every fuel system is different between the auto manufacturers. Same with tuning, each engine management system has its own strengths and weaknesses. We just don't build a generic kit and throw it out there. Sure, that would be much easier and cheaper, but not correct. Would it work? Probably? Is it the best solution? No. We do our research, so that when customers ask how much power they can run on a stock shortblock, we have a correct answer. Usually people want to run a lot more power on their stock shortblock than it can take, for financial reasons obviously. And we are always over-cautious.

When that is the case, I will tell them to build the engine first, if they can't afford to do both, then come back and talk to us. Sure, I'm taking a chance on them spending the money on the shortblock then choosing some other power adder, or possibly not having the money again for a while or forever, to spend on a turbo system, but its the right thing to do, the right way to do it.

I don't simply look for 'dished pistons', I look for places that can make custom pistons if we need them or whos pistons will tolerate which power level, same thing for rods and cranks. The Manley h-beam rods for the Ford modulars are rated to 700-750hp @ 8000rpms. You obviously won't have to spin the engine that high, but our customers make more power than that. Their pro series i-beams are good to about 850hp. We can make 2000hp with a pair of GT76s, 2400hp with a pair of GT80s. The best choice for those engines, with high hp needs (above 1000hp), is the billet steel rods from Oliver. For pistons we select CP first, Diamond second. Those engines have powdered metal oil pump gears that will shatter when you add power, same for the trigger wheel, its very thin. For that we insist on billet oil pump gears and a billet trigger wheel made by VT. We recommend these two options as cheap insurance ($400 combined) to every customer getting an engine built, regardless of power level.

Customers often ask us for our opinion on products other than our own. We do the research so we can give them correct information, to answer their questions, or at least get them pointed in the right direction. We need to know a lot more than just turbos, with these power levels, it frequently requires the building of an entire car (engine, trans, drivetrain, suspension, etc.). amd we like to be able to help the customers find the information and products they need.

I do this because when you install all of this turbo system, that we try so hard to not only make perform well, but also look beautiful, then have to take it all off to replace a stock shortblock that is missing a couple of rods, then reinstall it all, things get scratched. It never looks as good the second time its installed. Usually because the shop handling the shortblock swap won't take the time and extra effort to do the job correctly. Our customers want something more than 'satisfactory'. We spend a great deal of time, routing wiring, vacuum lines, etc. where they are out of sight. We had a customer bring his car to us a few months ago, that was getting ready for a show. He had just had the shortblock replaced by a shop local to him. There was wiring, hoses and crap everywhere. Most of the heat shielding was either installed wrong or missing completely. For the average, plain jane, driver, this probably would have been considered acceptable, but not for us or our customers. In fact many people would have probably looked at it and not noticed, but not us. We spent 8 hours on his car (free of charge) just to go over those little details and make sure it looked like it did when we first released it to him.

Again, I'm not an engine builder, I leave that to a professional engine builder, who does it every day. Sure, I've built a few, never lost one yet, but again, thats not my primary focus, we aren't an engine shop. Let everyone work on what they are good at. If I wanted a 1500hp Ford modular motor, I wouldn't build it myself, I'd call upon VT. As I said, I do this stuff like it was for me personally and I'd have VT build my personal mod motor.

But at least we do the research so we know what to recommend to a customer so they don't go blindly into a project like this and have a bad outcome. If they ask me a question I don't know, I won't just BS them and spit some answer out, I'll tell them I don't know, but I'll find out. Like I said, I won't guess. No one person can know everything, the key is to know where to find the information when you need it.

Our forums aren't like everyone elses. We don't put up flattering information, and delete anything derogatory or unflattering. I don't run a business like that. I don't delete ANYTHING. Sure, have some people gotten onto our forums from other competitors and tried to bash us or make us look bad? Yes, at least one time that I can remember. Did I delete it? No. I left it up for all to see and for others to post their opinions on. Too much of society today is one sided. I had nothing to hide (like here), and just let it play out. I see too many sites that as soon as something gets put up that makes them look bad in any way, *poof*, its gone. How is an uneducated consumer supposed to hear both sides of the story or find out the downside? I don't work that way. Go ahead, see for yourself. I started it as a place for people like you and I, that could ask questions and get honest answers. I post updates and pictures during development...even if we make mistakes...which we do. The point is that we don't leave it like that. I will continue to cut tubing up, redo and redo it until I am satisfied with it...and I'm very picky (friends call it anal) about it. I let the visitors see the trials and tribulations that we go through...just like every human goes through, every day. No one is perfect, everyone makes mistakes. The difference is that we don't cover ours up, we learn from them and fix it.

But what you say is true on almost all of the sites on the net. They have paid advertisers, which are selling products on their site, so they have pull since they are paying. They can send an email and get an entire thread deleted, or if they have their own forum area, can delete the thread or just the bad parts themselves, even re-word it to their liking. I decided ours wasn't going to be that way, I wanted a place where people could see the whole story, right or wrong, good or bad. Our forums aren't just for discussing our products, its for discussing anything car/truck related. After all, this is more than just a business to me, it is my passion, what I love more than anything else (besides family) in life. We have sections for 'mechanical horror stories', 'vendors good/bad', transport companies, classifieds, etc., and no paid advertisers. A real 'consumer' forum shouldn't have paid advertisers, it skews the viewpoints, just like the car magazines. Of course I realize all this is hard to swallow, since it is our forum, the product manufacturer, and you should have that caution in mind anytime you are on a forum. But until you've actually experienced it first hand, you can't really have an honest opinion right? All I can do is invite you to try it for yourself, I hope you will.

Believe me, I completely understand why you are doing this. If you think this is bad, you should have seen it when I first started up. Knew very little, had no track record, no product. But people called, emailed, came to visit, and got to know me/us, found out what we stand for and believe in and gave us a shot, and they have never regretted it. Our customers always come out on the winning end. The first couple of prototypes I built, I quoted the customer a price and when it was all said and done, it ended up costing me $2000 more than I charged him. Now I'm not talking about 'throw-away', development stuff, there is always waste during development. I mean that we added $2000 more in parts, materials and components than I had originally planned on...before I got the system to a point that I considered it complete. I didn't go to the customer and say "well, it cost more than I originally told you, so if you could just write me a check for the difference...". Even though it was for parts and materials that they actually got and the agreement was that they would just pay for parts and materials, no labor. I chalked it up to development costs and moved on. I just couldn't find it in myself to go back to them and ask for more money, when I had already given them a price. It wasn't their choice to add all this extra stuff, it was mine.

You see, I was raised with the belief that a mans word should mean something and that 'a mans concience is his pillow'. I bring those beliefs to the business every day and insist that my employees live by them also. The sad thing is that we're not doing anything special, just doing things the way they should be done, but to most it seems like we're going above and beyond the call.

So like I said, I understand completely why you are doing this. That is exactly the reason I started this company. I thought I could do better, and fix these things that you fear, becaue you are right to be fearful...because I have been there, a consumer/customer, just like you, still am (I still buy hot rod parts other than my own), with the same fears and worries. I encourage all of our customers to do their own research, ask questions, send emails, make phone calls. It is a pretty large purchase, they need to know exactly what they are getting. I feel that a more educated customer will just see that many more reasons why our stuff is better.

[KenP]

I fully expected you to have an answer to each point. I spoke my peace and gave my opinion based entirely on your words as posted to other forums. The members here are very intelligent. Good luck.

[KenP]

Oh, what the Hell is this? As one person put it, VERY MISLEADING. Especially since it doesn't have a turbo.
http://www.globalcar.com/cgi-bin/gct.pl?CALLER=MORE_INFO&CODE_TRADER=101028&CODE_CAR=147193&TYPE=1&PRIVATE=0

Ref: 147193
Brand: Hummer 2 TWIN TURBO by Induction Concepts (2003) LHD
Color: Black
Engine: Gasoline
Price: US$ 53,452

Mileage: 19,000 Mi.
V8 6.0L Sequential-Port F.I.
This unit is sold. Similar can be offered.
Take Note!
The Hummer 2 can be offered with "HIGH PERFORMANCE TWIN TURBO SYSTEM" that can deliver from 600-2000 BHP Maximum.
Please contact Rad Craig or Karl Gunnarsson at:
www.inductionconcepts.com (http://www.inductionconcepts.com)
Fax + 44 1293 884 821 (England)

EQUIPMENT: Airbag(s), ABS, Automatic transmission, Cruise/speed control, Power brakes, 4 wheel drive (4x4), Air conditioner, Power door locks, Power mirrors, Power windows, Power steering, Power seats, Security system, Hifi stereo, Multi CD charger, Certified, Metallic paint, Telephone, On-board computer, Has most Hummer options.

SHEEZ, talk about scary.... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Induction Concepts]

sfox: No, we are not giving away a turbo system, we wouldn't be in business very long if we did that. Prototype customers pay for parts and materials only, no labor. They usually want several other items done in the process and we always give them a break on the labor for those items.

I didn't include any pics of an H2 project vehicle. I posted pics of some of the cars we plan to make systems for. We can't post pics of a kit if we haven't built it yet.

Believe me, if we can fit twin turbos...full size turbos at that, in the engine compartment of a late model Mustang, any full-size truck (especially one as large/wide as an H2) will be easy compared to that.

KenP: that was posted by an associate of mine from Italy. He is wanting to be our european distributor and already has a shop setup there to do installations. He will be sending someone here soon to get trained, to ensure they perform installations to our high standards. I didn't post the ad, he is trying to drum up his own business, thus why it has his fax number. I don't condone that type of advertising, vaporware. After we've built an H2 kit, sure, but not before. I will contact him and have him pull that listing.

Like I said, I understand the fear. But believe it or not, some of my best friends and associates started out this same way, flaming and bashing...then they learned more and became a customer/friend. You won't find a single customer we have wronged or a single faulty product, or even one that is not the best quality. You are hunting to find the bad, but not showing any of the positive, there's plenty out there. Look on modularfords.com (one of, if not the largest late-model ford websites/forums) and see what you find.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Induction Concepts:

Words

More words,

I sell stuff,

More words again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>I mean, geesh. I was feeling a little guilty for being long-winded at times. I fell asleep after "I...."

Thanks for the summary, Seth. Now I understand what his posts says without having to make an attempt at reading it again.

[PARAGON]

Dude, come on. Just give it up and move on or it can get very nasty around here.

For instance, while you are telling your associate from Italy whose stuff says he is from England, make sure to tell him about the Chevrolet SSR TWIN TURBO 2005, Chevrolet Corvette C6 TWIN TURBO 2005, Dodge Viper SRT-10 8.3L TWIN TURBO 1100 BHP (LHD) 2004.

By the way, they all refer to YOUR website, so the dumb comment about the fax number makes a lot of sense.

You can check it all for yourself here: http://eleanor.virtual-showroom.net/brands/gallery/index.htm

[PARAGON]

Oops, sorry forgot one. Inference is the same as the others. 2000 Lamborghini Diablo SV GTR LM 5.7L V12 620 HP, this is under the Twin Turbo section of your partner's website that also has pictures of an H2, Ford GT, Mustangs, vette, etc. etc.

http://www.eleanorsupercars.com/partners.htm

[DRTYFN]

Tag team ownage.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Induction Concepts]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Dude, come on. Just give it up and move on or it can get very nasty around here.

For instance, while you are telling your associate from Italy whose stuff says he is from England, make sure to tell him about the Chevrolet SSR TWIN TURBO 2005, Chevrolet Corvette C6 TWIN TURBO 2005, Dodge Viper SRT-10 8.3L TWIN TURBO 1100 BHP (LHD) 2004.

By the way, they all refer to YOUR website, so the dumb comment about the fax number makes a lot of sense.

You can check it all for yourself here: http://eleanor.virtual-showroom.net/brands/gallery/index.htm </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He is not my partner, he is an associate. His home is in Italy. I have asked him to remove the twin turbo H2 ad and any other ad that mentions anything turbo-related that is not currently in production or in prototype, at least for anything he's expecting from us. It is late overseas right now, so he probably won't get the message until tomorrow. I didn't get to send it earlier today as we got tied up just after I made my last post here, and I just got home from work. He owned that business long before I met him.

If you guys only want to bash, then I'll quit wasting my time here. Apparently not all of you feel this way as several others have called today. It just amazes me the lengths at which people will go to in order to start or continue a flame on a forum. I have more meaningful things to do with my time. Life is too short to spend on negative tasks. I mean I could understand if I had a track record like Hennessey, or if there were lots of (or any at all) customers that I had done wrong in some way, or turned out a single inferior product.

But then again, you would rather just read a false summary than to extend the courtesy of reading something that I spent time writing and get the facts.

Instead of counter-bashing, I prefer to take the higher ground, provide as much information as I can to those that are interested, and leave it at that. Thanks anyway.

[PARAGON]

Well, when you have to try to write a book to beat around the bush about the appearance of your business..... well that pretty much says it all.

I am sorry for bashing you, it was a mistake. I should have read all of what you typed in this forum and just believed it all without any regard to the rest of it. I shouldn't have thought that your "associate" who lives in Italy but shows an address in Surrey, England was anything but a multi-typo. Of course, I have been involved with a ring out of Surrey, England that has a multi-national car scam. Now if one of his addresses would have been from Niger I would have had you pegged for sure.

You see, you look like a jack-leg coming onto this forum trying to push your wares and then on top of that have all kinds of things not add up. Get off the forums, and go spend a few years building a name and then come back and not feel like you have to tell us your belt size and where you learned to TIG. Quite frankly, no one gives a **** if you can weld or not, figured out how to polish stainless steel, or if you can put a new shiny bracket on the side of a block. My advice for you is to shut up and quit overcompensating for who knows what by telling us your innermost thoughts.

Now do you understand why someone will only take a chance on a jack-leg if they get the package for free? You have no track record, no shame and no customers. If you were as good as you say you are, people would be coming to you and you wouldn't have to try to hunt customers down in forums.

[4churchill]

ladies and gentlemen
boys and girls
children of all ages
the elcova forums are proud to bring to you
your h2 tag team champiiiiiiiiiiiiiiioooons of the world
the blingmeister: Drty Fan
and the Hummer guru Paragon
your off road outlaws!!! :-)

[Induction Concepts]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Now do you understand why someone will only take a chance on a jack-leg if they get the package for free? You have no track record, no shame and no customers. If you were as good as you say you are, people would be coming to you and you wouldn't have to try to hunt customers down in forums. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong, yet again. We don't give anything away for free, unlike some other companies out there. Our customers at least cover the cost of materials and parts when we do a prototype. We have customers and we do have a track record. I was just exploring another possible prototype. I don't beg for anything.

Customers ship their cars here, from all over the US, to have us do the installation when they could have it done locally and save a couple grand on transport to and from our shop. They don't just do that for fun, they do it because they know the care we will put into the job and the high quality end result. I'm sorry, but I won't sit idly by while you slander/liabel myself or my company.

[PARAGON]

Hell, you have done everything here but sit idly by. You invited all of this and you can't explain away the inconsistancies. I suggest you make employment of an attorney before you attempt to indulge in legalese. There is no libel in any my comments and if I am guilty of slander it is because I referenced your own information.

By the way, what exactly was I supposedly wrong about. With all of your time you have on your hands not having to work on cars, how about going down to the local JUCO and learn a little reading comprehension. I never said that you gave anything away.

See, you lose here. This will make about 4th or 5th point at which you could just move on and not dig your hole further but you can't resist posting. I have even given you friendly advice to that effect. It will only get worse so why continue beating your head against a wall.

[LasVegas]

You guys are great ferrets! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[HummerH2]

go advertise your crap elseware