Broken wheel rods where the lugnuts go?

[hummer05]

Has anyone had the rods that the lugnuts go on break or snap. I had a place take off my stock rims and add some aftermarket ones, when he took off my stock lugs, 3 of the rods snapped. I then went back with my aftermarkets on to have a tire taken off to rebalance the tire and 2 more rods broke. I called the dealer and they did not sound like it would be covered under warranty, any ideas?
Thanks

[hummer05]

Has anyone had the rods that the lugnuts go on break or snap. I had a place take off my stock rims and add some aftermarket ones, when he took off my stock lugs, 3 of the rods snapped. I then went back with my aftermarkets on to have a tire taken off to rebalance the tire and 2 more rods broke. I called the dealer and they did not sound like it would be covered under warranty, any ideas?
Thanks

[partsguy]

You are having after market wheels put on?The dealer will look at it as The people who are putting your wheels on did someyhing to the wheel studs.Did they break after you put the new wheels on?

[hummer05]

well 3 broke taking the stocks off and 3 more broke taking the aftermarket wheel off. the posts just snapped and got stuck in the lugs that came off. I know i will be arguing with the dealer on this, any idea of costs of replacing those

[Yetti]

I am thinking that the tire shop who did the work is the one who eats the bill on this. the reason being that I have been repairing vehicles for 25 years and the only way a lug stud gets damaged in the shop is if someone trys to remove it with an impact going the wrong way, basicly they over tightened it till it broke. Or they could have over tightend them while doing the reinstall. lug studs should be set as high as 100 ftlbs of torque depending on the type of wheel. its their baby now.

[partsguy]

No real big deal about 4.00 each stud maybe .5hr
to replace.quess http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gifI"ve never heard of the studs breaking on H2s, It's not a common problem.

[Yetti]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">well 3 broke taking the stocks off and 3 more broke taking the aftermarket wheel off. the posts just snapped and got stuck in the lugs that came off. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Ok this more info then I had a second ago..

I think the the threads waded up if the lugs stuck in the lug nut... still caused by over tighting. they still eat it.

[hummer05]

so they could have overtightened them and then when they took it off again it just snapped like it did. I know when it happened they suggested i talk to the dealer, this should be fun. Is it that easy to break them, by overtightening with the air gun then when removing they snap

[LasVegas]

I use Discount Tire and although they use air/impact wrench to run lugs on, they actually do the final tightening with a hand torque wrench. I would say someone wasn't careful.

[Yetti]

The tire shop has opened a Pandora's box. The last guy who worked on it may have over tightend them, but the minute they removed them again it bacame their responsablity to repair it for you. the studs were not broken when it drove in to the tire shop, so they had better not be broken when it leaves.

[hummer05]

they certainly did not hand tighten them, i will be at the dealer on monday morning to have it looked at, since i am off on a trip this weekend, might not be to good driving with only 4 lugs holding on a wheel.
If they did over tighten them, could the others break off sometime in the future while i am driving?

[LasVegas]

Yes. The metal has been fatigued.

[Kevin B]

Hummer 05, I think you got hosed. If it were me I would not have picked the truck up like that (if you did). Do these nut jobs, pardon the pun, realize the liability they are facing letting you drive the vehicle??

I agree with yetti, they caused the issue by, most likely, over-tighting the lugs when they should have been removing them. If in fact they were crossthreaded from the factory don't you think they should have stopped after breaking the first one and used a breaker bar to see what was going on? As easy as these are to fix IMHO they should have done it for you to save you the pain.

[hummer05]

well i be sure to go down there on monday and talk to them. Can you think of any excuses they can use, other then them stating that there was a problem with the lugs (that they were defective)

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by hummer05:
Can you think of any excuses they can use, other then them stating that there was a problem with the lugs (that they were defective) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Probably a couple hundred but that doesn't change the fact that they broke while they worked on it. I agree with N2 you shouldn't have driven it off their lot. But, if they give you guff, tell them you're taking it to the dealer and if it appears they over torqued them, you'll get a statement from the dealer, have the dealer repair, and expect reimbursement from them at dealer rates.

[tower]

I wouldn't even drive it in. I'd put it on a flatbed and insist that they replace all 32 lugs.

There were a couple of horror stories when the H2 first came out about wheels spontaneously coming off and causing crashes. In reading your post, I am wondering if something like this might have been the nidus. Even if you need to pay out of pocket or pay the dealer (so that they take all liability) I would replace all the lugs.

Ditto Vegas, when I got a flat repaired, discount rotated all my wheels. Best puncture repair I have ever seen, inexpensive, efficient, tightened everything with a hand torque wrench, nice guys to deal with. The only drawback, they're usually very busy so there's a long wait.

[hummer05]

thanks for all your input, will have all lugs looked at and replaced if need be then go after them for over tightnening if that was the problem.

Once last ?, when they need to replace the lugs (rods) does that entail replacing the whole drum or are the lugs (rods) seperate.

[LasVegas]

Studs are individually replaceable.

[tower]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">...will have all lugs looked at and replaced if need be... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How will you know? You are assuming that the damage to the lugs will be externally visible. WRONG! Having x-ray crysalographic studies done on lugs would be prohibitively expensive. They over-torqued them all, have them replace them all. These are cheap parts, the replacement of which could prevent serious damage and injury. Insist that they replace them all. If you're not that good at negotiating, pay for it (see my earlier post re: dealer) and recover from the vendor in small claims court or eat the cost. You will regret not paying this mall price if someone gets hurt as a consequence.

t~

[LasVegas]

Ditto tower

[partsguy]

I agree with whats been said.Also pick and choose your battles with the dealer.Maybe someday you"ll break an axle, on the trails and the dealer will remember you as the guy who brought after market wheels somewhere else and bitched That the studs "that knot headed garage broke"should be covered.They will tell you off roading voids your warranty.Good luck and play fair.Clearly the tire place's fault,not the dealers.

[HummMe]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yetti:
I am thinking that the tire shop who did the work is the one who eats the bill on this. the reason being that I have been repairing vehicles for 25 years and the only way a lug stud gets damaged in the shop is if someone trys to remove it with an impact going the wrong way, basicly they over tightened it till it broke. Or they could have over tightend them while doing the reinstall. lug studs should be set as high as 100 ftlbs of torque depending on the type of wheel. its their baby now. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I doubt these studs were broke by overtightening. These are pretty hefty stud and lug assemblies. More likely they were cross threaded by the last person and when the tire guy took them off the seized up and then the gun broke em. Air guns make more power in reverse than in forward. But these studs dont just snap,it definately takes some effort. They should have told you there was a problem on the very first lug that was tight. Oh well thats just the way I see it. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Dug]

hum05, unless you saw them break them taking them off , i wouldnt believe it. I've been around trucks and tires all my life and i would bet they overtightened them. The scary thing is the donk that did it , overtightened everyone one of them. So I personally would want to replace every stud. Make sure the next guy torques them correctly.

[hummer05]

hummee / dug

okay so it looks like i will get all 32 replaced, in case the others were weakend by the overtightening. When you say it was crossthreaded, how would that have been done.

I will more then likely have the dealer do the work and then as you mentioned know that it was done correctly and go after some or all of the cost from the other shop. (hopefully not too much$$$)
I did think that the air guns were set to stop at a certain amount of pressure and that you could actually hand tighten them further then a gun. But it did appear that all broke when taking them off not putting on. BUt the guys who were taking them off to put in the center caps were the same ones that tightened that wheel a few days earlier

hummer05

[tower]

H05,

I'm glad you're replacing all 32. I'm with Fred on not burning your bridge with the dealer. You can bitch to the dealer about the tire shop and ask them to help you out by replacing the lugs. They will appreciate that you respect their abilities above those of the local tire store.

I’m sure you know that cross-threading occurs when a nut is placed on a lug without the threads lining up correctly (slightly crooked) and then the nut is forced to cut new threads onto the lug (much like a die cuts threads).

It makes no difference whatsoever if the lugs broke because of cross-threading, over-tightening or production error. Your course is the same.

When OEM wheels are replaced with wider wheels (which require greater offset or track), there is greater stress on the CV joint (according to my Hummer service manager). There is also greater stress on the lugs. I have no first-hand knowledge of this stress breaking lugs, but according to the first URL listed below, this does occur.

http://www.off-road.com/chevy/tech/wheel/

http://www.usacomp.com/Offset.htm

http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/offset.jsp

[LasVegas]

Hummer05... Don't want to be the bearer of bad news but the manual calls for.....front wheels: .8 hrs for one stud & .3 hrs for each add'l two. rear wheels: .5 for one & .1 for each add'l two. Rough calculations in my head is about 6 hours labor plus parts. Probably won't get out with less than $500 bucks.

[Yetti]

HummMe
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But these studs dont just snap,it definately takes some effort. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what you know about air impacts, but mine makes 400 lbs of torque to tighten and 600 lbs on the loosen side. its very easy to snap studs, a lot easyer then you think.

[Klaus]

I have to wonder if the guy that snapped the studs was an old Chrysler mechanic, dreaming of the days of left-handed wheel stud threads. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[HummMe]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yetti:
HummMe
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But these studs dont just snap,it definately takes some effort. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what you know about air impacts, but mine makes 400 lbs of torque to tighten and 600 lbs on the loosen side. its very easy to snap studs, a lot easyer then you think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks Yetti you just prooved my point of a gun making more power in reverse. I know that it is very difficult to brake a chevy truck stud going forward. I am an A tech for a chevy dealer(ASE Master Technician,with L1 and X1 advanced ASE certs.) usually overtightening will strip the threads,gaul the wheel or cause the stud to spin in the hub. When a lug is cross threaded on it will tighten up,but going in reverse jams the threads and seizes the lug then that 600ftlbs. comes into play. Have a nice day. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Yetti:
HummMe
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">But these studs dont just snap,it definately takes some effort. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know what you know about air impacts, but mine makes 400 lbs of torque to tighten and 600 lbs on the loosen side. its very easy to snap studs, a lot easyer then you think. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Hmmm don't know where you all are getting these numbers but the service manual calls for 125 ft lbs torque tightening.

[hummer05]

well just got back from dealer and had them replace 12 lugs, they felt that the others showed no sign of problems and only the 8 that snapped or had stripping on them needed replaced. I said i would do all 32 but they were sure it was not needed, at least i can go back to them if another problem occurs. Hopefully its not a wheel coming of at 80mph.

They were not sure exactly what caused it. As you mentioned before the crossthreading and then the breaking on the way off was more then likely the cause. But i still dont know since some broke taking stock wheels of they obviously did not want to hear about the manufacturer cross threading them. That was a $375 learning experience.

so much for taking it somewhere so that i dont screw things up, things still get screwed up and i pay people to do it. Well i will try to recover some from the shop that did it, i have a letter and the old lugs showing somewhat of a story. not anticipating too much money back but at least it did not break the bank

[tower]

Don't beat yourself up about it too badly. There are good shops out there, you just happened to encounter a bad one. Don't hesitate to threaten to (and if need be) take them to small claims court. You can also complain to BBB, ASE, news stations, etc. If the hassle factor is high enough, they'll pay.

[ckhagman]

Driving back from Windrock, TN 2 years ago 2 lugs snapped off on 1 wheel. It could have been due to over tighten or not tigh enough lug nuts because if they were not tight enough the wheel could push on the lug and break the stud. I had all 8 replaced underwarranty due to possible stretching of the lug. Since it was a tire shops fault I would have had them pay for it.

[hummer05]

that was one other concern, as i was getting ready to leave the dealer, the manager stated he wanted to be sure the lug nuts were deep enough to allow the post to fit in and have them tight up against the wheel, the technician said they were, so as long as i dont die or kill someone with a wheel coming of the h2, i can at least blame that one on the dealer if it occurs in the future