Rattlesnake revealed

[Steve R]

Okay...we ran Rattlesnake Canyon today, great trail, lots of fun.

Problem...when we came to hard areas...we were way too busy getting through the nasty to remember to take pics. Here's what we got so far. I feel like apologizing, but it's always fun to check-out pics.

Here's buckeye's new ride

[Steve R]

Okay...we ran Rattlesnake Canyon today, great trail, lots of fun.

Problem...when we came to hard areas...we were way too busy getting through the nasty to remember to take pics. Here's what we got so far. I feel like apologizing, but it's always fun to check-out pics.

Here's buckeye's new ride

[Steve R]

me & the Buck

[Steve R]

another one

[Steve R]

pre-trail stretching

[Steve R]

more stretching

[Steve R]

moving along the trail

[Steve R]

up into the canyon

[Steve R]

into the hills2

[Steve R]

more

[Steve R]

more 2

[Steve R]

more3

[Steve R]

Ladies & Gentleman....a long-time forum friend and Non-Hummer owner. I present to you, RockYoda:

[Steve R]

getting it on

[Steve R]

more of the Rock

[Steve R]

Hummers eat rock!

[Steve R]

The Buckster coming 'round the corner

[Steve R]

easy, but pretty

[Steve R]

exploring a mine at lunch-break. Don't worry, this one only went about 8 feet in.

[DURAMAX TIM]

Great pics as always Steve.

Yell'r 04 Lux w/ air, sunroof,F&R brush bars
Traded 03 White Lux
03 GMC D/A CC SLT LB soon to be 04

[JSA_3]

Looks like alot of fun

[Steve R]

Jason...

I know what happened. When we hit that black-diamond trail I had blasted past the entrance....so I ended up running the rear sweep. Without being in front, the photographic effort drizzled to pathetic.

Seems like I just can't win unless I lead the group AND have someone else to pull my rig up so that I can be freed to shoot pics. And then I still need another person to spot so I don't have to.

Thanks for the compliments on my getting through that stuff. With the low clearance of the H2....you really have to play those rocks/ruts JJJJUUUSSSSTTTTTT right, or else you pay the price with those ugly noises & frame carnage.

At one point my spotter put me into a huge rut and I wasn't quite expecting the strong roll to the side....that was scary!!!!!! Frank saw it from behind and was freakin' a bit too....he claims my left rear wheel was easily 3.5' up OFF the ground. Wish I had a pic of that!

[Frank Hewitt]

so was the H1 clearly superior, driving abilities being equal?

gasman

[Buckeye Hummer]

I hope Steve doesn't answer this. It will be about a 10 page post that will only have you more confused at the end.

Here are my BRIEF thoughts having owned both:

I am AMAZED what the H2 will do particularly with a skilled driver. The H2 will go on any trail an H1 will go (with a good driver). There were a couple of areas I thought would be troublesome yesterday (for a newbie) but Steve went right through them. I would like to say that the H1 is more idiot proof but it's NOT. You have to understand it's TT4 traction system unlike the the H2 where you push, select and go.

Basically, unless you're driving through something really ridiculous with body damage guaranteed, the H2 will get through it.

So back to your question: Say you take a good driver (Steve, Alec, DRTY) and let them try both vehicles. I'm sure they would get both through the trail fine but would drive them very differently. They are very different vehicles but very much HUMMERS!

[Steve R]

My observation on Buckeye's post is that it is very much mixed, like sweet & sour chicken. I must therefore respond accordingly:

SHUT-UP AND THANKS!!!!!

Along with:

CORRECT!!!! AND WRONG!!!!!

Here's my 10-page synopsis:

The H1 is clearly a superior offroading vehicle. Period.

The H2 can not, will not and shall not ever be as capable as the H1. The H2 will NOT go through any trail the H1 will go on (you haven't seen the real nasty stuff yet Buckeye).

I love my H2, but folks....please, let's just face it:

The H1 has gear driven hubs. The differentials and half-shafts are tucked way up giving the H1 awesome clearance. The rest of the vehicle has HUGE clearance...please trust me when I say it comes in really really REALLY handy when traversing huge ruts/rocks/boulders.

The H1 has reinforced plating designed to allow it to drift and be dragged over boulders and designed to survive a land-mine blast. The CTIS allows you to air-up/down accordingly as well. The front-end has nearly 100% approach angle...you can go up a wall practically. Let's not forget the super-low center of gravity and width....you can really get ridiculous with that rig!

The H2 is comparatively top-heavy, has way less clearance, diff's & axles hanging out and beside the skid-plate up front...we have that stupid gusset triangles that not only don't slide over rocks but often act to grab them and pull them up (I know Drtyfn & Alec hear me on that one!).

The capabilities of the H1 are only revealed through experienced drivers. In the hands of a newbie...they'll spin tires and get goofy...perhaps even doing better in an H2.

Like fishing line...the H2 is like 20-pound test and the H1 is like 40-pound test. It's all good & fine on the mild, moderate and some difficult trails....but when it gets really nasty and you start into the extreme stuff...the H1 can keep going and the H2 stops!

Now...that's just the vehicle. The driver is still a huge & key component. I know several H1's owners who can't follow some H2 drivers.

And lastly: it's all about fun. My buddy Craig (by my opinion) is an expert driver. He had an H2 and now has an H1. Years of racing and experience make him amazing offroad. Yesterday he was not really challenged and only had "some" fun. I...on the other hand....found much more challenge getting that H2 through some of that stuff...some of that was a real accomplishment and adrenaline pumping! I had a GREAT time! I think I got a few more Smiles-per-gallon then Craig did?

Which perhaps explains why some people set records and seek to land 400-pound tuna on only 20-pound test?

Now isn't that a pretty ending? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Craig T]

I'm going to attempt my version of an answer to this "H2 comparing to the H1" question. I have owned and driven both extensively off-road (I just sold my H2 after one year of ownership). First, every obstacle has it's own dynamic or physics. Every vehicle's has it's own geometry. Certain vehicle geometry has an advantage to the dynamic of each opposing obstacle. The advantage goes the the vehicle most suited to the widest variety of obstacles. I attached a couple of pictures from a 20-mile Moab trail loop. 15-miles into the trail we came across this obstacle. It was in a canyon. There where no alternate routes or bail out. It was do it or backtrack the entire 15 miles. If anyone can explain how an H2 could negotiate this obstacle (remember that pictures alway make something look less than it is), I would love to hear it. Therefore, a vehicle is only as good as the one obstacle it can't get through, and which is that more likely to happen to and H2 or an H1?

[Buckeye Hummer]

Craig, pics? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

You did a great post. This part in particular must be trademarked <BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Therefore, a vehicle is only as good as the one obstacle it can't get through <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

BUT then you pooped and left without posting the pic. C'mon the suspense is killing us.

[Craig T]

Sorry about the suspense. Steve is condensing my pictures for me. They are 685MB's. The board only accepts 300MB. They should follow shortly.

Craig

[Steve R]

by his command...

Here's a shot of Craig coming through some section in Moab (same section where several hardcore Jeepers turned-around and retreated).

[Steve R]

here's Craig coming down it

[Steve R]

Here's a way-modified vehicle coming in..

[Steve R]

and the conclusion

[DRTYFN]

That's not the conclusion to the first pic. The setting is different.

[Craig T]

It is the setting for the first picture. I took the picture. I just moved about 15-feet to the left of where the first picture was taken.

[RockYoda]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Craig T:
It is the setting for the first picture. I took the picture. I just moved about 15-feet to the left of where the first picture was taken.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I call B.S. there is nothing other than the Honda/Rodeo thing that is the same. Just look at the diffrent scenery...

[RockYoda]

Ok a viewpoint from somebody other than an H1/H2 owner who has been on this trail a few times....

Seeing the Hummers in action for the first time i was somewhat impressed of the capaibilites of the H2 (especially when Steve's H2 almost rolled... very close..) This trail however is what i would cosider easy to mild for an off-road trail. There was another side trail that Steve took a few guys on and i was more impressed with the drivers skills of not fipping over on the steep terrain..

I felt that the H2 did very well for the trail. However it proved to me that the H2 is not the truck for me. For the price vs function i would go with a fully loaded Suburban or 3/4 ton four door 4x4 truck, but that is just me

[Buckeye Hummer]

Yoda,

You better get on your flame-proof vest my man http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif Steve's going to let the dog's out.

I didn't get to see Steve go through that obstacle but he did say that he was directed on a bad line (I lean towards believing him as he was adimant). I did see you in my rearview mirror in the Yoda jostling around like you were riding a donkey with a chili up it's but http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif It was indeed not a killer trip but it was fun. I am looking for another more difficult trail this week.

I have yet to see any fully loaded suburbans on the trail but I guess that would be quite a sight http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[DRTYFN]

Yoda,

You just can't allow yourself to give the H2s a compliment, can you?

You've got to have a protective bite plate, right? Because I've seen pics of your rig and you'd rattle your teeth out if you don't.

[Steve R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RockYoda:


Seeing the Hummers in action for the first time i was somewhat impressed of the capaibilites of the H2 (especially when Steve's H2 almost rolled... very close..)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Funny....I thought you said you were "very impressed" with the Hummers...particularly the H2.

I have to admit...I was a bit freaked when the H2 started to roll really fast & hard to the side. I was getting in & out of my own rig and spotting myself for the most part....when I finally decided to just trust Dave. Dave is an "expert" Hummer instructor of sorts.

So Dave's guiding me here and there...and suddenly I'm rolling (quite unexpectedly). The H2 listed severally to the right...more so then I've even been before....all I could do was look up at Dave and wonder if I was going to go over. I didn't.....but that was more then exciting.

Dave insisted that I was never even close to rolling. He may be right....there was this one guy at Gorman who got so ridiculously sideways that he could reach out from his window and practically touch the ground. Not knowing Hummers, I think you'd be shocked how extremely sideways they can get as compared to most offroad vehicles.

Frank...you were supposed to say a whole bunch of nice things and score points here....what happened to the big plan????

Oh wait...I forgot about the even bigger plan.

TROLL!!!!! TROLL!!!!!! TROLL!!!!! TROLL!!!!!!

[Steve R]

Oh...as for Craig & his pictures. Craig doesn't bull**** or lie, these pics are legit. I'll admit they don't quite look just right...but he wouldn't deceive us, it's just the pics.

[Steve R]

Frank,

The H2 is pretty much the perfect combination of your truck and a Suburban. Lots of great offroad capability combined with cargo/payload area.

Buckeye and I both have Yukons/Tahoes....and there is no comparison. What are you talking about????

[Buckeye Hummer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>For the price vs function i would go with a fully loaded Suburban or 3/4 ton four door 4x4 truck, but that is just me<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

My god man, have you gone mad? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif Did you eat your lunch next to my diesel exhaust? How could a Suburban function like an H2? I've had/have Suburban, h2 and Tahoe and they are all different but the only one that can do some nasty off road duty is the H2.

Your yoda is definitely good rock crawler. I really like the Fred Flinstone brake feature the best http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Mucho rain coming our way. You know what that means!

[Frank Hewitt]

seems to me pretty obvious, both irregardless and consistant with the recent replies, that the H1 with the better ground clearance, lower center of gravity, and more aggressive drive train that it would be ultimately better off-road. If off-road prowess exclusivity was what I wanted I wouldn't have bought an H2, it's the offroad/onroad ultimate combo that took me.
For 1/2 of the price of a new H1 you could build a jeep that would would embarrass it off-road.
The H2 is still the perfect combo of hitting the trails with respect and driving to them in style.

gasman

[Craig T]

Frank, you hit the nail on the head here. In my opinion (and yours obviously) the H2 is the perfect compromise between off-road and comfort. I'm lucky enough to have comfortable transportation and an H1 to use just for wheelin. If I could only afford one, I would still have my H2.

You where wrong about one thing. You couldn't build a Jeep that "would embarrass an H1 off-road" for 1/2 the price "of a new H1". You could do it for 1/3 the price, maybe less http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Steve, thanks for sticking up for me on the phony picture comments. I always appreciate your freindship, but it makes no difference to me what he thinks. It is much easier to acuse me of some photo conspiracy than to explain how he could get his street-queen H2 over the obstacle. I do know one thing, if you were there in Moab with me, you would have tried!

Craig

[RockYoda]

Ok i was in a bit of hurry when i wrote the reply early today, so i didn't get everything out that i wanted to write...

I was impressed with the H2 and expected nothing less than what i saw with the H1. The H2 performed flawless for the trails we were on. Steve, the line you choose was fine. In the end you didn't roll nor do any damage. You are right 90% of the H2 on the road will never be on the same type of trail we were on. The H2 is a very good comprimise between a good 4x4 and lux-o SUV (not my truck and a Suburban). The H1 is totally diffrent. It was designed for the type of terrian we were in. It perfromed exactally as one would imagine it to.

A Suburban or 3/4 truck towing my built Toyota is exactally what i need for the type of wheeling i do. That is what i need and not what you might need.

oh and Steve...
I never said i would post a bunch of nice things to score points.. thats what you wanted me to say and post.. I posted what i saw and how i felt.

I can really care less what you guys think of me or my truck. The sole purpose of me going on this trail was 1. just to get out and go wheeling. 2. meet new friends and see some good wheeling rigs. Thats it! What i got was Steve being an asshat and sticking me in the rear so he could get his mag shots.. Now he is bitching because i didn't lay praise and worship on the off-road worthy-ness of the H2. In my eyes the H2 is a "show-off" or "Hey look at me" SUV, with some good 4x4 atributes. Is it for me.. no. Is is for someone who wants something diffrent and likes to get out in the great out doors and go a little farther than the aveage joe... yes.

EVERYTHING THAT I HAVE WRITTEN IS WHAT I THINK! I AM NOT WRITING THIS TO PUT DOWN OR "BAG" ON ANYBODY OR ANYTHING.. So don't get your panties in a bunch people...

[This message was edited by Jason on 11-11-03 at 05:20 AM.]

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Craig T:


Steve, thanks for sticking up for me on the phony picture comments. I always appreciate your freindship, but it makes no difference to me what he thinks. It is much easier to acuse me of some photo conspiracy than to explain how he could get his street-queen H2 over the obstacle. I do know one thing, if you were there in Moab with me, you would have tried!

Craig<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Take it easy, Craig. We weren't saying they were fake, just out of sequence. There is definitely a change of location from the first pic of the roll-over to the conclusion photo of it on it's side. In the first pic of the Honda coming down the ledge there's a bush next to it, loose soil in the foreground and NO rock in the foreground.
I was just stating that I didn't think that the first picture was the same location as in the second pic with the little Honda showing it's belly.

[Steve R]

Frank,

The "Troll, Troll, Troll" thing was entirely a joke....I should have put a bunch of smiley-faces next to it to indicate as such....my bad.

You told me that you were very impressed....and I merely suggested that the forum may like hearing from your perspective: I never asked you to fabricate or lie about anything.

My buddy Dave came along to take some Hummer pics....I asked you to take the lead or sweep so that we could get some pics of the Hummers. It started off with you in the lead....what's the big deal?

I'm going to figure you took the troll-thing 100% the wrong way and are just lashing out. I can understand why you'd be upset....but seriously, it was a joke. You were invited because you are a Non-Hummer Owner who ISN'T a Troll!!

I don't want to get way into it....it was a misunderstanding and a spin-off from a joke earlier in the forum. Apologies for being vague....but seriously, you were welcomed, included and respected yesterday.

[Buckeye Hummer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>I can really care less what you guys think of me or my truck.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Frank,

It's in good spirit and fun. As I told you I thought it was quite big of you to come out with a bunch of hummers and be the only non-hummer driver. I think I speak for everyone when I say we all think you're a great guy. Now as far as your truck goes it's a modded out rock crawler apparently you don't care about body damage but just want to take it out to have fun. That's all good but you need to expect a little ribbing just because you were the only guy WITHOUT A HUMMER! We did the same thing to a Disco that came out with us some months ago. The bottom line, which I have expressed to Steve, is that I love it when other trucks come out with us for two reasons. First, to see what their truck will do as compared to Hummers. Second, to meet the individual that is willing to subject themselves to some guaranteed ridicule just for being different. Steve did the same thing when he went out with a bunch of rovers and everyone taunted him.

Anyway, take it in stride. You're a good guy and you know your trails. I'm sure if I took my Hummer with a bunch of rock crawling yodas I would never hear the end of it so I'm not quite sure if I'm prepared for that yet. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Let's get back to business. What is one of the more/most difficult trails around L.A.? Yes, I could research but since you've been around the dirt block maybe you know.

[Buckeye Hummer]

I hate this:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> [This message was edited by Jason on 11-11-03 at 05:20 AM.] <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> in reference to Frank's post.


Now I stuck my ass out there and made comments not knowing what Frank originally said. I understand why it was edited but don't necessarily agree that it should be. Can anyone fill me in on the ORIGINAL post? Frank, what did you say that was cut out?

Jason

[argonaut]

Things are getting edited on this forum now? What is this place coming to. This used to be the coolest forum because everything was left alone. WTF happened. Is this post going to get edited now because I am questioning?

[Buckeye Hummer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>WTF happened <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is clearly profanity and very offensive to me. Please edit it out.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[RockYoda]

Well yes Steve i did take the "Troll" comment entirely the wrong way. I really thought you were just being an Asshat (i guess i can't write what i really want to write now a-days). Maybe i should grow some thicker skin.. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Well to put everything in perspective... I did say i was VERY IMPRESSED with the abilites of the H2 and i meant it. I really did have fun going out and haveing a nice drive all you guys were great. I really didn't get that razzed untill i started posting. I think the next run you guys do should be John Bull in Big Bear there is alot more fun stuff on that trail. When i go to Calico in Dec. I will try and scout out some trails for the H2 and H1s. There is some very good trails.. just have to check to see if you guys fit.. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I apprecate you guys taking my outlash in stride..

And there is nothing wrong with

Wet T-shirt Factory ... they produce all the wet t-shirts for the all the wet t-shirt contests..

[Steve R]

Let me explain the censoring issue: I had requested that Jason edit-out some of Frank's post because it was rather nasty AND I was completlely certain he must have taken the troll thing entirely wrong.

We also took his post a bit wrong......now we understand that he'd want a Tahoe to tow his rock-cralwer with. It just goes to show that text can be taken wrong. And here we thought only pics on this forum can be deceiving!!!!!

I had to take his outlash in stride: it was based entirely on a misunderstanding. Besides....I personally don't mind being called an A-hole......but to the rest of the forum, having thier respected moderator profanically bashed to such a degree would be devaastating....it was in the interest of the forum!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Steve R]

Btw....I thought to ask Jason to change Rockyoda's avitar to read "Troll!!!!" as a joke.....but I haven't even got that much swing around here. Would have been funny, huh???

Jason....I know some people who really know Big Bear like crazy, I'm pretty sure the John Bull trail is the best nasty of 'em all up there. Not IF, but WHEN you decide to run it....I'll go with you and ride shot-gun. It's all about spotting and a team-effort. We can photo-document the whole thing too. You'll need a good spotter and co-pilot, it's a team effort for sure: I'm your man!! Only I stand between you and certain damage!

Frank...you should come too, if you can

MAKE IT!!! MAKE IT!!! MAKE IT!!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[argonaut]

Come on steve, take you H2 and run it. You can do it!!!

[Steve R]

Okay okay....maybe I'll take the H2..BUT I've head the John Bull is one nasty rock-garden after another and just not suited for vehicles with longer wheelbases.

Did Jason put you upto this????? That guy is just waiting for the day I get stopped by an obstacle and he can get through it! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Let me check with some guys about how well a 2 can pass through that trail and perhaps we'll give it crack. Plan is to hit it next week. From what I gather, this is the Rubicon of the San Bernardino Mountains!

[Buckeye Hummer]

Ok, I just got off the phone with a bunch of guys who ran John Bull in their H2's, about 50 of them. All of them were newbies and none of them had air so Steve you should easily be able to get through John Bull without a problem. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[argonaut]

Steve is chickening out again... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Buckeye Hummer]

Argo,

Please go to the new John Bull Steve poll and place your vote.

Jason

[argonaut]

Oh I did, I did. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif