STS H2 Remote Mounted Turbo System - New Sponsor

[h2turbo]

STS is excited to become a Sponsor of the Hummer Forums.

Our goal in becoming a sponsor is to let people know there is another option for adding power to their H2 and be here to answer any questions or concerns that you may have.

All of the information about the system is on our website. http://www.ststurbo.com

Key stats are at 5 psi we saw the following results:

Rear Wheel Horsepower: 316
%'d increase: 60%

Rear Wheel Torque: 350
%'d increase: 46%

You may have seen the actual dyno run on the Guns and Gears TV Show.

Most people don't believe a remote mounted turbo system will work. The biggest questions are around turbo lag and the air filter location. The fact is that is does work. We've got hundreds of happy customers.

This system achieves full boost by 3000 rpm in first gear. Turbos are load dependent, so on the free way in higher gears the boost comes on sooner, usually before 2000 rpm. I personally have a 6.0L truck with the remote mounted system on it. I've turned up the boost and get 7 psi by 3000 rpm. Besides the power, the coolest part about the system is the sound it makes. You get a deep V8 rumble combined with the turbo spool.

Check out the testimonial section of the site to see responses from our customers.

Air filter location is not an issue for normal everyday driving. It comes with a Outerwears Drycharger Sock that sheds water. All of our test vehicles are everyday drivers and we drive them all winter long in Utah. For those of you that take your H2 offroad, the solution is very simple. We sell a snorkel hose kit that relocates the air filter above wheel level.

For $5195 this system comes complete with tuning and fuel system upgrades.

If you have any questions, I'll watch the forum and do my best to get you timely responses.

Thanks!

Ben @ STS

[h2turbo]

STS is excited to become a Sponsor of the Hummer Forums.

Our goal in becoming a sponsor is to let people know there is another option for adding power to their H2 and be here to answer any questions or concerns that you may have.

All of the information about the system is on our website. http://www.ststurbo.com

Key stats are at 5 psi we saw the following results:

Rear Wheel Horsepower: 316
%'d increase: 60%

Rear Wheel Torque: 350
%'d increase: 46%

You may have seen the actual dyno run on the Guns and Gears TV Show.

Most people don't believe a remote mounted turbo system will work. The biggest questions are around turbo lag and the air filter location. The fact is that is does work. We've got hundreds of happy customers.

This system achieves full boost by 3000 rpm in first gear. Turbos are load dependent, so on the free way in higher gears the boost comes on sooner, usually before 2000 rpm. I personally have a 6.0L truck with the remote mounted system on it. I've turned up the boost and get 7 psi by 3000 rpm. Besides the power, the coolest part about the system is the sound it makes. You get a deep V8 rumble combined with the turbo spool.

Check out the testimonial section of the site to see responses from our customers.

Air filter location is not an issue for normal everyday driving. It comes with a Outerwears Drycharger Sock that sheds water. All of our test vehicles are everyday drivers and we drive them all winter long in Utah. For those of you that take your H2 offroad, the solution is very simple. We sell a snorkel hose kit that relocates the air filter above wheel level.

For $5195 this system comes complete with tuning and fuel system upgrades.

If you have any questions, I'll watch the forum and do my best to get you timely responses.

Thanks!

Ben @ STS

[KenP]

Hey Ben, welcome to the forum. Many expressed interest in your product when Jonahs was working with you. He really hoped for a group buy deal. Obviously that didn't workout.

Anyway, I know he had some issues with the system, among others, after installation. How did things turn out? We might as well hear your side of it before some folks start putting money up for your product.

And whatever happened with Rick? I know he was talking with you extensively, before choosing something else.

FWIW, I'm not going after you in some vindictive way. Many were left hanging without all the info. I'm asking you to straighten it all out. Thanks.

[DRTYF? (the imposter)]

What are the advantages for this system other then cooler running turbo inlet?

[KenP]

Ben, I just thought of a couple of other things I'm sure you can help me with. What happened with the guy in Dallas? How did you get the info from him, exactly?

Did you get the injector size right yet? I know that was an issue with the first one you sent out the door. As you know, fuel is very important and shorting it could cause a failure. One that would be hard to prove exactly what caused it.

A big selling point for your kit is it's ease of installation and you really promote that. I think that's great. Unlike the supercharger which is hard to install and most don't do it themselves, I bet most guys will try to install your setup themselves. Of course, then their warranty is null and void. How is that relayed to them in a manner that removes all ambiguity?

[h2turbo]

KenP,

Thanks for your posts.

First, on the group buy - we are not against trying to get something going on a group buy. We only sell through our STS Power Dealers, so I'll talk with our VP of Sales and figure out what we can do.

With Jonahs, the only thing I will say is that oiling system was installed incorrectly. We've had many customers with the 6.0L engine running for over a year with no issues, including my truck, which was the first 6.0L truck.

At the time that Rick wanted a H2 kit, we did not have one available and our R&D schedule was full. It was simply a business decision to work on sports cars before the H2. We didn't have what Rick wanted, so he made a different decision on forced induction. I would have done the same thing as him.

I'm not sure who you are talking about in Dallas. I'll need more info - e-mail me more information and I'll find out if there is an issue.

In terms of injectors we use the same injectors that we use on all the 6.0L engines. 42# injectors. All the feedback I've seen on the prototype vehicle and the first kits is that A/F ratios are great.

I'm not sure I understand the warranty question. We highly recommend that one of our Power Dealers install the system to receive the 12 month system parts warranty.

Hopefully that answers that round of questions sufficiently. Let me know if you have any other questions...

Thanks!

Ben

[h2turbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2GuyPerson:
What are the advantages for this system other then cooler running turbo inlet? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

H2GuyPerson,

Here's what I see as the benefits of going with a remote mount setup on the H2.

1. Efficient performance in the usable RPM range - Turbos are more efficient than superchargers are building horsepower/torque. On the H2 it totally wakes it up and makes it a blast to drive around town. On the freeway you'll gain 2-4 mpg which is very difficult to do with a supercharger.

2. Emissions legal - a custom turbo setup would be very difficult to get CARB certification. We've recieved our test memo and have a testing date with the CARB lab this month. I expect a CARB EO number within the next couple months. We expected this a year ago, but had contracted with a company that didn't deliver. We now have a direct contact with CARB and feel a lot more confident in our understanding of the CARB Exemption order process and our ability to get the EO#.

3. The sound of the vehicle is awesome. I know I'm biased, but the whine of the supercharger always there is not my favorite thing. I love the V8 rumble, turbo spool and blow off sound on our vehicles.

4. The power is there when you want it. Idling and putting around town you would hardly know that the turbo is there. When you want the power at a stop light, on ramp or passing you've got full boost by 3000 rpms in first gear. It is like having a bottle of nitrous on demand.

5. It is easy to do maintenance on your vehicle. There is more room in the engine bay after the system is installed than before. Changing spark plugs, etc is still easy to do and won't cost you in extra time at the mechanic.

That is why I would buy the system. After driving around my 6.0L truck for a year now, I can't imagine driving without it. I love my commute and anytime I can get in the truck. It just makes driving fun.

Hope that helps...

Ben

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

The posting of a STS'ed H2 dyno sheet would be nice. A/F ratio would help also. Lastly, please specify which type of dyno is being used and whether its an awd or 2wd unit.

[h2turbo]

The dyno, along with customer testimonials, pricing, etc. is all on the website.

http://www.ststurbo.com/hummer_h2

However, I've attached the scanned in dyno page to this message. Unfortunately it doesn't have the A/F ratio. Rick Squires, who tuned the vehicle, said it was in the low 11's.

The dyno run was done on an all wheel drive Mustang Dyno at Modern Garage in Murray, UT. You can call Christian at Modern Garage if you would like to verify. 801-262-4605.

Thanks for the question!

Ben

[KenP]

Thanks for answering those. I have more:

The K&N you supply chaffs on the brake lines and the fuel filler hose. Have you fixed that yet? And if so, how did you fix it? I'd hate to see some deadly problem caused by that.

Also, the issue of the rock rails. Many guys and gals on this forum use their trucks offroad. Your design requires cutting the rail supports subsantially to install, thus rendering one nearly useless. Have you fixed this problem yet? And how have you fixed it?

Could you post pics of the system installed on an H2? Both the underside and engine bay.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Posted by Turbo H2:
With Jonahs, the only thing I will say is that oiling system was installed incorrectly. We've had many customers with the 6.0L engine running for over a year with no issues, including my truck, which was the first 6.0L truck. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You said the oiling system wasn't installed correctly on his truck. Hard to prove problem, I'm sure. How, exactly, was it determined that was the problem? Dealer inspection or some other method? Since his was one of, if not the first, H2 with your system, how did you assist in the install? And more importantly, how did you assist in the repair?

Can't wait to see the dyno sheets. Thanks again.

[KenP]

OOOps, you snuck the sheet in while I was typing. Thanks and it looks good.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

All i will say about My situation and not mention the dealer as He is a very good man and I do not want to cause Him any problems

But, He and I approached STS to do R@D for H2. I would cover labor and asked STS several times to just furnish the parts. At the end STS would have had a H2 kit last summer.
The reply We got, was not going to do an H2 no market and then another response of not only are We not doing a kit for H2 We will never do one for H2 because there is not enough market there. My response was that Hummer owners spend more money to upgrade everything about their ride than most other vehicles on the road. They have the extra income to do that and that there is a market.

I was told that Your were covered up making
f body kits, did not have time to mess with it. The thing is We did not ask You to mess with it just willing provide the parts and I would cover R@D labor for the dealer. Seemed like a very fair deal to Me. I also offered to promote the turbo once i had it on for a little while to make sure all the bugs were worked out to where it would be a finished product.
So bottom line is I would have been running an STS system for a very long time by now. Instead I had a sponsor for My show H2 that furnished Me with a Magnuson supercharger to be recognised as a sponsor at shows because they saw how aggressive i was at winning whether I had sponsors or just spending My money. I would have had it on when I won the state Hummer title a while back. Not only could I have let the forum members know about it and many would have already been running STS as well but, I could have had every judge at every show looking at the STS system and not counting how many spectators would have been seeing it with a mirror underneath to show it off.

All i can say is it showed a narrow mind or tunnel vision a well as poor ability to judge a market and not taking advice from a person who knew what the market looked like.
That is all i will say as it is water under the bridge and I have moved on.
TAZ

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Posted by Turbo H2:
With Jonahs, the only thing I will say is that oiling system was installed incorrectly. We've had many customers with the 6.0L engine running for over a year with no issues, including my truck, which was the first 6.0L truck. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Did you have to design the oiling system different for the H2 than from the other 6.0L trucks?

[h2turbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RLTAZH2:
All i will say about My situation and not mention the dealer as He is a very good man and I do not want to cause Him any problems

But, He and I approached STS to do R@D for H2. I would cover labor and asked STS several times to just furnish the parts. At the end STS would have had a H2 kit last summer.
The reply We got, was not going to do an H2 no market and then another response of not only are We not doing a kit for H2 We will never do one for H2 because there is not enough market there. My response was that Hummer owners spend more money to upgrade everything about their ride than most other vehicles on the road. They have the extra income to do that and that there is a market.

I was told that Your were covered up making
f body kits, did not have time to mess with it. The thing is We did not ask You to mess with it just willing provide the parts and I would cover R@D labor for the dealer. Seemed like a very fair deal to Me. I also offered to promote the turbo once i had it on for a little while to make sure all the bugs were worked out to where it would be a finished product.
So bottom line is I would have been running an STS system for a very long time by now. Instead I had a sponsor for My show H2 that furnished Me with a Magnuson supercharger to be recognised as a sponsor at shows because they saw how aggressive i was at winning whether I had sponsors or just spending My money. I would have had it on when I won the state Hummer title a while back. Not only could I have let the forum members know about it and many would have already been running STS as well but, I could have had every judge at every show looking at the STS system and not counting how many spectators would have been seeing it with a mirror underneath to show it off.

All i can say is it showed a narrow mind or tunnel vision a well as poor ability to judge a market and not taking advice from a person who knew what the market looked like.
That is all i will say as it is water under the bridge and I have moved on.
TAZ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Taz,

I apologize if that is the way it was communicated to you. The salesperson that covered your area is no longer with the company.

It was not communicated to me in the way you described. We do sell a universal kit and absolutely would have let you take on the project had I known the details.

We always knew there was a market for the H2, but we have limited resources and have to prioritize R&D projects.

Thanks,

Ben

[h2turbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Posted by Turbo H2:
With Jonahs, the only thing I will say is that oiling system was installed incorrectly. We've had many customers with the 6.0L engine running for over a year with no issues, including my truck, which was the first 6.0L truck. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Did you have to design the oiling system different for the H2 than from the other 6.0L trucks? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No, the oiling system is the same.

Ben

[Mr. I - Man]

Hell on the SUT you probably go through the bed and have almost a roof level snorkle set-up which would grab alot of cold air. Depending on the aerodynamics of the roof you could setup some kind of forced induction to make up for the pressure lost on the length of the snorkel tube.

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

Ben-

Thanks for the response. The dyno sheet looks promising. Although I hate to see a "one question answered, 2 more asked" thread happen, I would like to know how the auto tranny stayed in gear at full throttle w/o kicking down to the next lowest gear on the dyno run. If i give my H2 full throttle at 2400 rpm, it always kicks to the next lower gear.

Again, thanks for the info and Q/A session...

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. I - Man:
Hell on the SUT you probably go through the bed and have almost a roof level snorkle set-up which would grab alot of cold air. Depending on the aerodynamics of the roof you could setup some kind of forced induction to make up for the pressure lost on the length of the snorkel tube. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You sir are one sick puppy http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif ...You mean kinda like the old Pontiac Fiero GT scoop that mounted over the roofline to catch air into the mid-engine's air box?

[Mr. I - Man]

Na kinda like those Isuzu Box Trucks

[Mr. I - Man]

Not sick at all, just sometimes I go off on Adderall induced tangents every once in awhile! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[h2turbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
Thanks for answering those. I have more:

The K&N you supply chaffs on the brake lines and the fuel filler hose. Have you fixed that yet? And if so, how did you fix it? I'd hate to see some deadly problem caused by that.

Also, the issue of the rock rails. Many guys and gals on this forum use their trucks offroad. Your design requires cutting the rail supports subsantially to install, thus rendering one nearly useless. Have you fixed this problem yet? And how have you fixed it?

Could you post pics of the system installed on an H2? Both the underside and engine bay.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Posted by Turbo H2:
With Jonahs, the only thing I will say is that oiling system was installed incorrectly. We've had many customers with the 6.0L engine running for over a year with no issues, including my truck, which was the first 6.0L truck. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You said the oiling system wasn't installed correctly on his truck. Hard to prove problem, I'm sure. How, exactly, was it determined that was the problem? Dealer inspection or some other method? Since his was one of, if not the first, H2 with your system, how did you assist in the install? And more importantly, how did you assist in the repair?

Can't wait to see the dyno sheets. Thanks again. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The K&N issue you talk about is addressed in the instruction manual. There is a bracket that must be bent so that the filter does not rub on the brake lines.

We did not know that our first H2 had aftermarket rails, there wasn't an issue. We received feedback from one of the dealers that they had to make a notch in the stock rail, but they didn't have to cut the rail support. We will get a stock H2, take a look at the severity of the issue and come up with a fix.

I don't want to comment on Jonah's issue as we were not given a chance to talk with him, only his attorney. We tried many times and wish we could talk with him and work to a win-win, but that is not the case. I'm sure you can appreciate for legal reasons why I cannot say more than this...

We have hundreds of other happy customers that love their systems. If needed, we can provide you with customers that are willing to comment on their positive experience with STS. The testimonials section of our website are submitted from customers as well. http://www.ststurbo.com/testimonials

Thanks!

Ben

[h2turbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fastest H-Town Realtor:
Ben-

Thanks for the response. The dyno sheet looks promising. Although I hate to see a "one question answered, 2 more asked" thread happen, I would like to know how the auto tranny stayed in gear at full throttle w/o kicking down to the next lowest gear on the dyno run. If i give my H2 full throttle at 2400 rpm, it always kicks to the next lower gear.

Again, thanks for the info and Q/A session... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fastest H-Town Realtor,

Thanks for your post, is there a better way that you'd like to see me answer the questions? I'm not a forum veteran, I'll do whatever works best for you guys...

Rick was in the H2 on the dyno pull. He said that Christian started off about 1/2 throttle at 2000 rpm and then pushed the pedal down to WOT at about 3000 rpm. He believes it was a 2nd gear pull.

Hope that answers your question.

Ben

[KenP]

Thanks, I do understand why you can't address that one issue.

You didn't mention the fuel filler hose. Does the filter still rub that? The bending of the bracket part: Is there anyway around bending the bracket? I ask because I've been told you can't really bend it far enough to avoid the chaffing.

When I said "rails" I meant the small ones just under the body, not the side steps. I just want to make sure we're on the same page with that. Is that what you meant, also? I mention it because some like to beef their's up a bit and by cutting them the structure is entirely weakened.

Thanks for your help.

[h2turbo]

It shouldn't rub the fuel filler hose if installed correctly. The bracket is not an issue. They don't have to be moved very far. Here's the installed pic from the rear. There are a bunch of other pics posted on our website at the following URL:

http://www.ststurbo.com/h2_installation_pictures

We are on the same page on the small rails. We'll get a stock one in here and take a look at it.

Thanks!

Ben

[DRTYF? (the imposter)]

Thanks for the reply but I meant what advantage over a normal turbo setup does this have? So you end up with 12 ft of pipe for the inlet?

Wouldnt having a turbo that far have increased turbo lag? And wouldnt it have to work harder to compress that much air in that much tubing?

[h2turbo]

Here's my view of why someone would choose a remote mount over a traditional turbo system.

1. Cost - if a front mount kit is available, it generally costs more money and will cost more to install. I've searched around a little bit and the only turbo system I could find for the H2 was one in R&D that was selling for $10,500. Generally turbo systems are custom jobs that cost a ton of money.

2. Heat - The other downside of a custom front mount kit is that it is difficult to find a location where the glowing turbo won't melt other components in your engine compartment. When we visited with Kenny Duttweiler he said that many times he's seen people melt the fluid container for the master and get brake fluid everywhere.

3. Emissions - it is more difficult to pass emissions with the turbos in front of the cats. They take heat away from the cats, so the cats take longer to fire up.

In terms of performance I don't have any data of our system vs. a front mount. We generally get just as good of gains in horsepower and torque and we get full boost by 3000 rpm. The H2 engine is pumping out a lot of exhaust gases. When you turn a hose on that is full of water, water immediately starts coming out the other end. It is the same with air. When we did the calculations it takes about .05 seconds to move enough air to charge the intake pipe on a v8 engine. I'll try to get some of our customers to post on the board. Lag is just not an issue, especially with such a big, heavy vehicle. People like to debate this forever and start going back to their physics classes, but the bottom line is that it works.

If you've got a ton of money, time and willingness to do a custom setup then you'll be happy with a front mounted system. If you want to get the best value for horsepower then you can't beat our system.

Hope that helps!

Ben

[KenP]

Thanks for the reply. Frankly, I think it's scary close. Since no two vehicles come off the line the same, (just read any thread here http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) I am worried about the relationship of the filter to the lines and filler hose. It looks awefully close. Some of these guys wheel their trucks every weekend and I can see a rubbing problem occuring. A couple of good, solid smacks across the rearend may hit something.

In the pic you posted the truck is clearly held up by the frame. With the truck on the ground, what is the clearance between the pumpkin and the turbo?

I asked about the warranty earlier. Your site states; http://www.ststurbo.com/products :<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> STS(tm) Turbocharger Systems are designed so that they can be installed with average mechanical ability and without the need for specialty tools. Most systems can be installed in 4-6 hours by first time installers. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That's on your first, and only, page of products. So I click on: http://www.ststurbo.com/h2_what_s_included
and get this:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Garrett Turbo GT67
TiAL Wastegate
K&N Air filter and PreCharger
Turbo Oiling System
HPC coated intake tubing
HPC coating exhaust tubing
Electrical harness
PCV System
Silicon connectors, clamps and fittings
Return oil cap
Full color, step-by-step instruction manual
1 year parts warranty
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>I need a clear answer on your warranty. Do you warrant the product if I install it myself? What if there is a problem that can't clearly be determined what the cause was? Where is the link where I can see what type of warranty I get if I pay someone else to do it?

It's nice to see you use Garrett. They're top notch. I'm not familiar with your wastegate company, but I'm sure they're fine. I've installed and used Deltagate many times.

I understand Allen Nelson has his stuff together. I've heard nothing but positive things about him and his TX company.

If the truck I posted a pic of below, that came from your sited, is the one you're referring to on the rails, well, it's not the same. I can't see rock rails on that truck.

I look forward to your responses to my inquiries. Thanks.

[ARH1956]

Great concept in most applications. I can't imagine you'll find many H2 owners willing to cripple their vehicles off roading abilities with that impossible filter location. The entire system, turbo, filter, tubing, etc., are WAY too vulnerable. This is all that keeps me from buying today.

[KenP]

I guess you can ignore my warranty questions if you want. I found this after looking around your site for awhile http://www.ststurbo.com/refund_warranty_policies :<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Squires Turbo Systems is not responsible for any damage to your vehicle caused by the turbo system or any other components. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Unless, of course, there is something else there you can elaborate on.

You mention Kenny Duttweiler in a previous post. Did he help you with your product? Just curious because I used a few of his products in the late '80's when I was running a Buick GN. My best was a 10.17 @ 135. Never enough to be anywhere near his league. He, Conley, Bell, D'Alesandro and some others were the names back then in Turbos. Especially turbo Buicks.

Anyway, of course a poorly engineered turbo setup could melt the master cylinder. Hell, it could melt a lot more than that. So this statement<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> When we visited with Kenny Duttweiler he said that many times he's seen people melt the fluid container for the master and get brake fluid everywhere. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>doesn't really mean alot. A heatshield should be plenty with a well engineered kit.

You said this:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Cost - if a front mount kit is available, it generally costs more money and will cost more to install. I've searched around a little bit and the only turbo system I could find for the H2 was one in R&D that was selling for $10,500. Generally turbo systems are custom jobs that cost a ton of money. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Could you post a link? The only turbo setups I've seen for the H2 are working TT setups. I'd love to see what a single setup looks like.

You said:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> If you want to get the best value for horsepower then you can't beat our system. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I don't think anyone is questioning that. Nor do I think anyone will. But as you can see, there are questions to be asked and answered. I think a huge concern is for the Back Yard mechanic installing it and having a catastrophic failure that's "his fault". One that's hard to prove, but deemed his fault.

Another issue is hitting the trails. There's a lot of components down there with your system that could be damaged. Possible leaving someone on the stranded on the trail.

Next up.... Lag. Or lack of it. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[h2turbo]

I'm not ignoring your question on the warranty. I wanted to understand the question. After your last post, I was typing up a response when I saw your new reply.

We will warranty your system if you installed it by yourself. Look under the About Us section and there is a link to the STS Limited Parts warranty. Basically we will replace any component of the turbo system that fails. We've rarely denied a warranty claim unless it was totally obvious that it was misused or installed improperly. We are in business and must keep our customers happy if we want to stay in business. You can't make everyone happy, but most people are reasonable.

Kenny did not help with the design of the system. We visited with him on our press tour and after inspecting one of our vehicles he made those comments.

The link I saw was for a TT setup as well. I couldn't find anything for a single.

On the catastrophic failure, you could have that issue if you're installing a supercharger, front mount or turbo system. Forced induction is not for everyone. We've tried to model what the other forced induction companies are doing. We recommend that people go through our dealers for a professional install. I'll make that more prominent on the website.

I believe I have a picture of the H2 turbo system with the H2 on the ground. When I get to work I'll try to find it and post it.

We sponsored this forum to answer people's questions. I'll continue to do my best and if there are issues that the forum members feel need to be resolved, we'll take a look at it and do our best to resolve them.

[h2turbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ARH1956:
Great concept in most applications. I can't imagine you'll find many H2 owners willing to cripple their vehicles off roading abilities with that impossible filter location. The entire system, turbo, filter, tubing, etc., are WAY too vulnerable. This is all that keeps me from buying today. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The air filter can be relocated with a simple hose. The turbo and pipe hang above any of the lowest stock components.

If you are going to be griding your ride on the rocks at Moab then other things are going to get damaged under your vehicle and we agree with you that the system is not the best fit for those people.

Ben

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2turbo:
We sponsored this forum to answer people's questions. I'll continue to do my best and if there are issues that the forum members feel need to be resolved, we'll take a look at it and do our best to resolve them. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That's great and is why I'm asking. These things have been eating at me since I heard about your system. It's great to actually hear from a product manufacturer and thanks for answering the questions posed to you. You'd be surprised how many won't. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> I wanted to understand the question. After your last post, I was typing up a response when I saw your new reply. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I understand.<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> We've rarely denied a warranty claim unless it was totally obvious that it was misused or installed improperly. We are in business and must keep our customers happy if we want to stay in business. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I've been in the hospitality business for years, so I understand what you are saying. But my question was more direct than your answer. How do you diagnose a problem as being the fault of the installer? You claim this turbo system can be installed by mechanically inclined people in "X" amount of time. Do you fly someone to my home to check it out? Do I have to ship my truck to you? With LPE, ( I know, different company, different terms, different price), they came and got my truck, fixed it and returned it. No charge. For 5k+ I wouldn't expect you to do the same, but how do you make the determination?

You also stated:<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> We recommend that people go through our dealers for a professional install. I'll make that more prominent on the website. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Fantastic. I didn't see that anywhere. But does that have an affect on the warranty? I'm feeling I'm not getting solid answers on this which is why I keep going back to it. I'm sure you can straighten this out for me.

Thanks

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2turbo:
Here's my view of why someone would choose a remote mount over a traditional turbo system. <span class="ev_code_RED">Novelty? </span>

1. Cost - if a front mount kit is available, it generally costs more money and will cost more to install. I've searched around a little bit and the only turbo system I could find for the H2 was one in R&D that was selling for $10,500. Generally turbo systems are custom jobs that cost a ton of money. <span class="ev_code_RED">Remember the old adage- You get what you pay for. </span>

2. Heat - The other downside of a custom front mount kit is that it is difficult to find a location where the glowing turbo won't melt other components in your engine compartment. When we visited with Kenny Duttweiler he said that many times he's seen people melt the fluid container for the master and get brake fluid everywhere. <span class="ev_code_RED">So you're going to put it out back and relatively unprotected? Bright. </span>

3. Emissions - it is more difficult to pass emissions with the turbos in front of the cats. They take heat away from the cats, so the cats take longer to fire up. <span class="ev_code_RED">Hmmmm... is that why turbo-charged race cars have glowing headers & shoot fire on downshifts? </span>

In terms of performance I don't have any data of our system vs. a front mount.<span class="ev_code_RED">(How convenient) </span> We generally get just as good of gains in horsepower and torque and we get full boost by 3000 rpm. The H2 engine is pumping out a lot of exhaust gases. When you turn a hose on that is full of water, water immediately starts coming out the other end.<span class="ev_code_RED"> That's IF the hose is filled with water. Since you don't sound like you know anything about liquids let me enlighten you with this- liquids can't be compressed. Gases can. Learn it, live it, love it. </span> It is the same with air. <span class="ev_code_RED">No, it's not the same. </span> When we did the calculations it takes about .05 seconds to move enough air to charge the intake pipe on a v8 engine. I'll try to get some of our customers to post on the board. Lag is just not an issue, especially with such a big, heavy vehicle.<span class="ev_code_RED"> I'm calling BS on this. </span> People like to debate this forever and start going back to their physics classes, but the bottom line is that it works. <span class="ev_code_RED">But it's more than likely not the most efficient set up for the H2. </span>

If you've got a ton of money, time and willingness to do a custom setup then you'll be happy with a front mounted system. If you want to get the best value for horsepower then you can't beat our system.<span class="ev_code_RED">Yeah, if you're a chiseler and won't mind an ass end full of extra heat and all of the related problems it will cause components that weren't designed to be exposed to those kinds of temperatures. </span>

Hope that helps! <span class="ev_code_RED">Nope, but it was entertaining. </span>

Ben<span class="ev_code_RED"> Dover</span> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Ben I can understand the need to prioritze. That is not an issue with Me. I own 5 companies and completely understand how a company has to operate to make money. I have 5 that do. That is why I had made the offer to get this done and done almost a year ago maybe, not quite that long. I'm glad to hear this person is gone because I do not call name's but, You are better off without him. The way i explained it to You was exactly how it went down. I bent over backward to try and get this thing done over and over. It was like talking to a wall so i gave up which is something I do not do as a rule.
These Men and Ladies will tell You and some know Me better than others that My word is good as a contract and that I would not distort for all the tea in China.
I had asked STS to provide parts.
Not because i needed financial help I felt that if I was going to be a part of the developement of a H2 STS that STS should at least help.
I appreciate Your apology. I was doing the STS in the very beginning because of the friends I have here that at that time were writing and worried about what it would or what it could not do. I told them then I will get one on and let everyone know how it goes. I took off with excitement with the challenge of just helping My Forum by Me taking the chance on the system without them having to. I saw the potential of the product I will in no way deny that and still do. I think actually if You took a few real H2 owners and I mean the kind that work on them theirselves etc. they could lend some input to perfect. I know You have engineers and can work it out. But, if You do not drive an H2 everyday or off-road You are not going to know the capabilities.
Ben I commend You on staying in there and trying to answer these question. But, again back to prioritizing R@D You would not have to had spent one minute on it just send to us the parts needed to build it. I even had already gotten a guy lined up that was going to tune it so that We would have those number for You to give to Allen Nelson to program PCM's for the system.
If You would PM Me.
I have been offered by a person in Your company to sponsor My next build which will be a lifted H2 that will be show quality camo and blacked out. I at the time thought that I would not even consider the offer but, You being fairly forward about answering questions it is something that i may consider. If You would like to discuss this, PM Me and We can talk.
TAZ

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2turbo:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RLTAZH2:
All i will say about My situation and not mention the dealer as He is a very good man and I do not want to cause Him any problems

But, He and I approached STS to do R@D for H2. I would cover labor and asked STS several times to just furnish the parts. At the end STS would have had a H2 kit last summer.
The reply We got, was not going to do an H2 no market and then another response of not only are We not doing a kit for H2 We will never do one for H2 because there is not enough market there. My response was that Hummer owners spend more money to upgrade everything about their ride than most other vehicles on the road. They have the extra income to do that and that there is a market.

I was told that Your were covered up making
f body kits, did not have time to mess with it. The thing is We did not ask You to mess with it just willing provide the parts and I would cover R@D labor for the dealer. Seemed like a very fair deal to Me. I also offered to promote the turbo once i had it on for a little while to make sure all the bugs were worked out to where it would be a finished product.
So bottom line is I would have been running an STS system for a very long time by now. Instead I had a sponsor for My show H2 that furnished Me with a Magnuson supercharger to be recognised as a sponsor at shows because they saw how aggressive i was at winning whether I had sponsors or just spending My money. I would have had it on when I won the state Hummer title a while back. Not only could I have let the forum members know about it and many would have already been running STS as well but, I could have had every judge at every show looking at the STS system and not counting how many spectators would have been seeing it with a mirror underneath to show it off.

All i can say is it showed a narrow mind or tunnel vision a well as poor ability to judge a market and not taking advice from a person who knew what the market looked like.
That is all i will say as it is water under the bridge and I have moved on.
TAZ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Taz,

I apologize if that is the way it was communicated to you. The salesperson that covered your area is no longer with the company.

It was not communicated to me in the way you described. We do sell a universal kit and absolutely would have let you take on the project had I known the details.

We always knew there was a market for the H2, but we have limited resources and have to prioritize R&D projects.

Thanks,

Ben </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[h2turbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
I've been in the hospitality business for years, so I understand what you are saying. But my question was more direct than your answer. How do you diagnose a problem as being the fault of the installer? You claim this turbo system can be installed by mechanically inclined people in "X" amount of time. Do you fly someone to my home to check it out? Do I have to ship my truck to you? With LPE, ( I know, different company, different terms, different price), they came and got my truck, fixed it and returned it. No charge. For 5k+ I wouldn't expect you to do the same, but how do you make the determination?

I'm feeling I'm not getting solid answers on this which is why I keep going back to it. I'm sure you can straighten this out for me.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here are the pics that show better where the turbo sits in perspective to the rear end. (you can only attach one pic per message, so the following message will have the second pic)

On the warranty, I now understand what you are asking.

We initially talk with the customer over the phone, if we can't tell what happened we ask them to go to one of our 120 authorized dealers. We've also asked for a digital picture. As a last resort, if they don't live close enough to a dealer, we have them send in the part for inspection and make a determination what happened.

It is hard to prove this to you, but if it is unclear what happened we will error on the side of the customer. Again, this is hard to prove to you, but we've had few warranty claims and it has been fairly obvious to both us and the customer whether it is a bad part or a botched install.

Maybe we are naive, but most of our customers seem to be honest with us about what happens.

Hopefully that provides more clarification for what you were asking.

Ben

[h2turbo]

Second pic showing the H2 off the lift.

[Mr. I - Man]

I wonder what the fording depth is with that set up http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Lame! Hey lets lower our H2's and put funny rice-rocket stickers on them too.

Kinda like "2 Fast 2 Hydrolocked"

Don't forget the neon lights on under carriage but that might pose a clearance problem for that great intake location http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[Camman]

Hello H2 Team,
I thought I better get on this discussion about the STS Turbo System since I am the one with the H2 shown above on the Dyno Spec Sheet.

I have to say I really enjoy my H2, before I had the STS installed, it was of course lacking in power and could not pull my race car trailer without a lot of strain. Since the STS system has been installed, towing is much easier and much more enjoyable.

The most fun I have is racing those little rice rocket cars with the big mufflers. They think this big old H2 has no power, but a 6 psi max, the ol'H2 gets out of the way very nice........

I wont set no speed records in the 1/4 mile, but for everyday driving, towing and having fun, this is the way to go.

I was thinking on asking STS if they could turbo a motor-home RV for myself. The job they had done on my H2 was very impressive and boy does it sound good..........

Give me your feed back, thanks for the time.......

Camman

[KenP]

Camman, do something about the underside of your truck. It looks like crap! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif It appears, by the tires, that your truck is the black one I posted a pic of above. Ben said the step tube supports had to be trimmed. Can you, or Ben post a pic of where and how they were trimmed? I want to see what type of work would be needed to do it and to see what it would do to the rock rail supports.

I think everyone can agree the filter would need to be relocated for any wet wheeling, but I'm curious about the turbo's location in relation to the diff housing. Could you measure it? How much clearance is there between the two? Also, if you don't mind measuring the distance from the ground to the return tube, right where it is next to the driveshaft? These are very important questions that need to be answered for anyone that plans on taking their truck offroad.

Ben, just remember I love turbos, but I have to ask: I could just kiss my drivetrain warranty goodbye with this product, can't I? Or do you have some method of doing it I can't find? Maybe if one of your dealers installs the system the drivetrain would be covered? A big selling point for the Mag SC is the dealer install and being able to retain your warranty. That's why so many go that route and they can be had for a comparative price, plus install.

Again, I guess my biggest concern goes to the warranty issue.

[Mr. I - Man]

I also would worry about heat transfer to the rear diff. The rear diff is already subjected to extreme heat based on internal friction alone, adding additional heatt from an external source ie." The turbo "would cause the gear oil to break down quicker causing increased wear and just another thought the Eaton locker in the rear diff is solenoid activated and solenoids dont like heat it tends to make them a bit flaky.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Guys I would not be fair on this topic if I did not share somethings I learned in My research. When the turbo is mounted and there is a little flexibility as to a little more forward but, mainly You try to keep it in the area of where the muffler was. I had planned to move turbo a little more forward than the one in photo's.

In My studying about how the rain and dust etc. would effect the system I have to say in response to water that if You ran in deep enough water that You submerged the turbo You would have water coming in Your doors. The turbo is tucked nicely up in between the rails and I had contemplated building a protective skid plate under it or actually a cage with air flow to protect it from tall pointy rocks and making a heat shield for turbo to help insulate the bottom of H2 from turbo heat. Also there is a snorkle You can add to raise the air intake up into the fender well. For dust or even rain there is a dry sock that even though it is designed for water it would increase the dust filtering dramaticly. Not sure how much the cover would reduce the ability to draw air into the system, that is something Ben would need to answer.
I felt even though I had My problems with the guy mentioned by not being mentioned there is a way to make this product work in off-roading and would feel remiss if I did not share what I learned about that type of use.
TAZ

[Camman]

I would like to comment on the gentleman called " Hummer Deity". Until you have seen or driven this application, you should not be so open to changing Ben's reply. The turbo lag is much less then you would think, but you say your the expert...........Not................
I have a 6.0 Ford Power Stroke and the lag is much more on the Ford then the H2. The H2 spools very quickly, even with the long, extra tubing that needs to be filled...Go back to your physics class and see how fast 5psi can fill those pipes...you will be amazed Mr. Know It All.
I have been driving this H2 for the last three weeks in the rain here in Salt Lake, seem to have no problems what so ever..........oh and guess what, I run an Oil Analysis Lab and have checked the oil time and time again, no water, no soot isuues what so ever.
And to the guy that stated the rear end oil would break down, thats funny,,,,,,EP Gear Oil can with stand over 650 Degrees F before breaking down, trust me, the heat from the turbo is not effecting the rear end oil but maybe by 20 degrees..........
Also Mr. Deity, STS has done a Twin Turbo Kit on a 2005 Mustang and I have to let you know the turbo lag there is NONE...............oh ya, only 2.2 seconds faster in the quarter mile then the supper charged 2005 Mustang version.
I really think it is childish when you modify someone's post............post your own reply.......

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Camman:
I would like to comment on the gentleman called " Hummer Deity". Until you have seen or driven this application, you should not be so open to changing Ben's reply. The turbo lag is much less then you would think, but you say your the expert...........Not................
I have a 6.0 Ford Power Stroke and the lag is much more on the Ford then the H2. The H2 spools very quickly, even with the long, extra tubing that needs to be filled...Go back to your physics class and see how fast 5psi can fill those pipes...you will be amazed Mr. Know It All.
I have been driving this H2 for the last three weeks in the rain here in Salt Lake, seem to have no problems what so ever..........oh and guess what, I run an Oil Analysis Lab and have checked the oil time and time again, no water, no soot isuues what so ever.
And to the guy that stated the rear end oil would break down, thats funny,,,,,,EP Gear Oil can with stand over 650 Degrees F before breaking down, trust me, the heat from the turbo is not effecting the rear end oil but maybe by 20 degrees..........
Also Mr. Deity, STS has done a Twin Turbo Kit on a 2005 Mustang and I have to let you know the turbo lag there is NONE...............oh ya, only 2.2 seconds faster in the quarter mile then the supper charged 2005 Mustang version.
I really think it is childish when you modify someone's post............post your own reply....... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That was done so Ben would know exactly what he was responding to.

Anyway, when I saw you posted I was hoping you were responding to my questions on the previous page. Here is the post again<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by KenP:
Camman, do something about the underside of your truck. It looks like crap! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif It appears, by the tires, that your truck is the black one I posted a pic of above. Ben said the step tube supports had to be trimmed. Can you, or Ben post a pic of where and how they were trimmed? I want to see what type of work would be needed to do it and to see what it would do to the rock rail supports.

I think everyone can agree the filter would need to be relocated for any wet wheeling, but I'm curious about the turbo's location in relation to the diff housing. Could you measure it? How much clearance is there between the two? Also, if you don't mind measuring the distance from the ground to the return tube, right where it is next to the driveshaft? These are very important questions that need to be answered for anyone that plans on taking their truck offroad.

Ben, just remember I love turbos, but I have to ask: I could just kiss my drivetrain warranty goodbye with this product, can't I? Or do you have some method of doing it I can't find? Maybe if one of your dealers installs the system the drivetrain would be covered? A big selling point for the Mag SC is the dealer install and being able to retain your warranty. That's why so many go that route and they can be had for a comparative price, plus install.

Again, I guess my biggest concern goes to the warranty issue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks for your help.

And Taz, thanks for the response as well.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

It is seems funny that STS would do a twin turbo since on their website they make the statement it will not be beneficial. That was the 2nd thing I had asked them in the request contacts that they were not interested and I told them it would work and be a huge shot to the company image. I was moving from the original normal R@D on H2 to doing something that was on the edge but, again was told twin turbos are not going to help. I told them maybe not on a small car but, I can tell You it will help on a rig that weighs 7000 lbs. Go to 2 smaller turbo's so they will spool up very quickly and create alot more low end torqe which is what the H2 needs. I said once You get them rolling they will move out in a hurry. I explained how i understood how the turbo works and a bigger turbo does not spool as quick as a smaller one. You run the same boost of 5 pounds on each turbo and You do not double the boost but, using the smaller turbo just let's them spool quicker and for Me since I had headers which I was told would not be good and need to bring my stock exhaust to go back on. I disagreed then and said I will design it to work with headers so the idea of the twins were born as We would get alot of exhaust running to the small turbo and spool under 2000 rpm. We talked to turbo manufactures who helped Us decide on the size of twins to use. They said if it was not right they would take them back and give us another set to try.
Well anyway I'm just surprised they messed with twins when they say on the website in the FAQ's that it would not help to do twins.
TAZ

[Mr. I - Man]

Hey ASS-Cam maybe you should read more my post more carefully instead of trying to find the comedic value in it. What I said that the gear oil would break down quicker, not break down all together. Gear oil in an environment 20 degrees warmer will break down quicker ( not much) than gear oil in a cooler environment none the less gear oil alway eventually breaks down. This is basic physics!Why would people buy rear diff covers with cooling fins if that wasn't the case. So get H2turbo's cock out of your mouth and read posts more carefully before you answer back with another stupid comment.

[h2turbo]

On the rear differential question:

Air is not a good conductor of heat. Our internal testing showed that the heat from the turbo heated up the surrounding air only at 15-20 degrees.

On the twin turbo question:

A twin setup actually did not spool any quicker than a properly sized single turbo. There are some other advantages if you want to run a lot of boost. Really large turbos are very expensive and it is actually cheaper to run 2 turbos in for really high boost applications.

As much as possible, let's try to keep this thread professional. I know the system is controversial, that's why I'm here to answer your questions.

Ben

[H2Finally]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2turbo:
As much as possible, let's try to keep this thread professional. I know the system is controversial, that's why I'm here to answer your questions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Excellent attitude! I will keep up with interest..

[Mr. I - Man]

Thanks for the answer. I was voicing a concern not starting a witch hunt. Some people like Camman like to shoot first without looking at validity of my concern.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[KenP]

I guess it's safe to assume my questions on warranty will never be answered. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[H2Finally]

Ken, I'm sure Jonah will report back with his warranty experience soon. Very curious to find the answer too!

[h2turbo]

KenP,

Sorry, it's been a busy Monday.

We do not currently offer an additional powertrain warranty like Magnuson.

At the volumes that we could commit to the warranty was going to be too expensive. As our volumes increase, the price of the warranty will go down and we will start to offer it.

From what I've found you really need to read the fine print. There are a lot of exclusions. If you are going to make your purchase decision on this point, I would make sure you get the warranty and talk to them exactly what is excluded and the process that it takes to get the warranty.

That being said, it is illegal for a dealership to automatically void your warranty by installing an aftermarket part. Search on the magnuson moss warranty act and you'll find a ton of information on it.

If you do have a warranty claim and they can prove that it was the aftermarket part that caused it, they can at that point NOT honor the warranty.

Does that answer your question?

Thanks,

Ben

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2turbo:
KenP,

Sorry, it's been a busy Monday.<span class="ev_code_RED">I understand.</span>

We do not currently offer an additional powertrain warranty like Magnuson.

At the volumes that we could commit to the warranty was going to be too expensive. As our volumes increase, the price of the warranty will go down and we will start to offer it.

From what I've found you really need to read the fine print. There are a lot of exclusions. If you are going to make your purchase decision on this point, I would make sure you get the warranty and talk to them exactly what is excluded and the process that it takes to get the warranty.<span class="ev_code_RED">I'm very familiar with the fine print. But that's a good point. Anyone offering a warranty will have exclusions.</span>

That being said, it is illegal for a dealership to automatically void your warranty by installing an aftermarket part. Search on the magnuson moss warranty act and you'll find a ton of information on it.<span class="ev_code_RED">Again, I'm very familiar with the Act. However, other's may not be and should read it before spending so much money. In this case, most claims with the engine, exhaust, transmission, computer, differentials, etc. would surely not be covered by GM.</span>

If you do have a warranty claim and they can prove that it was the aftermarket part that caused it, they can at that point NOT honor the warranty.<span class="ev_code_RED">Yes, they would have to prove it was the fault of the aftermarket accessory. We're back to that proof thing again. It can be subjective. And it can cause problems on both ends.</span>

Does that answer your question?<span class="ev_code_RED">Thanks for taking the time Ben. I think you answered them as well as you can. I appreciate it. I'm sure other's will have more questions since this is such a unique application.</span>

Thanks,

Ben </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Lastly, I know several people really want to see the underside modifications that were needed on the rails. cammon didn't help out there. Maybe you have a pic or two that would help.

Thanks again for the time, Ben.

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2Turbo:
At the volumes that we could commit to the warranty was going to be too expensive. As our volumes increase, the price of the warranty will go down and we will start to offer it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If you know the answer to this I'll be surprised, but I'll ask anyway because it just popped in my head. If I don't ask it'll drive me crazy. If someone has your setup installed now and a warranty becomes available later, will you make it available to them also? And lastly, using your current sales and install figures and future projections, how long until one is ready? Best guess?

Thanks again, Ben.

[ARH1956]

While Magnuson Moss was a great help to aftermarket performance suppliers in general, it is WAY to vague to offer much help when a S/C or Turbo upgrade is installed. If you have a drivetrain problem following a HP upgrade of 50-75% & GM denies coverage, just fix it on your own dime. You don't have enough lawyers to frighten GM, & they have a pretty solid argument to deny warranty repairs anyway.
Now, if after you install the S/C, or Turbo the wiper motor fails & they deny warranty coverage, you've got a case.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Ben We will have to agree to disagree although I fail to see My position as being
unprofessional as alluded to in Your response to my mentioning the twin work which is contray to the STS FAQ. If I touched a nerve it is best to remember that i am a man that will spend money that i earned to prove my self right if provocted to do so. So do not imply I'm unprofessional if it hurt to bring up something that is an issue of STS not my issue. I just brought up what your statements on your website maitains which STS has apparently by the mention of a twin turbo now conflicts with Your mission statement and yes Your answers to a FAQ is a mission statement if You did not know that. I feel you should know that You have offended Me over your comment of unprofessionalism over a statement STS makes. I own as I told you before 5 large companies and did not get there by being unprofessional. I expect an appoligie in a cordial way and all is forgotten as far as I'm concerned. I already have had the feeling of not being treated with respect on past issues so i will not be disrespected in My club family. You came here to discuss your product We did not invite You. I have not been unprofesional in anyway unless your and My idea of it is totaly different. I had felt good with the way things were going until this acusation by you about me bringing up Your own website statements. Nothing was meant by that except something has changed. You say even a year ago you will not do something and turn around and do it etc. etc. etc.
I paid money for one of the best custom turbo builders in Texas to help Me to look into this exact topic and Your theory which is not dead is short concerning the making of a large turbo to spin up as fast as a small turbo. It lies in the basics of the operation of turbos. The big turbos can be made to spool up quicker by having them custom made to twist the exhaust fins to catch the exhaust in larger volume and that is what We are talking about when We discuss the STS is the fact that because the turbo is farther back there is less parasitic loss because the temp of the gas is cooler and denser. You cannot take a off the shelf turbo and compete with other off the shelf smaller turbo that is designed to spool quicker than the big turbo. You have to talk apples to apples and oranges to oranges. The larger turbo would have to be altered or placed in a situation where You would be able to intensify the density of the gases passing by it thusly a set of headers which i was told would not work but, hurt the system. Not true if You want to spool a large turbo sooner as You get more volume than with stock exhaust. Again the whole purpose of STS. Staying with the perameters of the STS philosophy of why You built the system you did, with a larger turbo maitaining it's ability to spool up at it predesigned factory design was do to the heavy more dense gases. That is going by the rules that STS has designed and won awards on. It will not operate as effeciently trying to make it spool up faster without altering the design of the turbo which defeats the idea behind STS and also runs the cost of turbo's up considerable if You have to have them special built and then more R@D. I did my research based on STS ideas and then went out and found that yes You could use smaller turbos with a denser flow of gas, and the small one will spool up quicker everytime as long as the STS philosophy is followed. When I went outside those guide lines I found that it would be economically unfeasible to try and redesign the large turbo to spool up as quickly as the off the shelf design twin smaller turbos. You have a valid point but, I feel from the experience of spending My own money and working with one of the very best custom turbo builders You are wrong on making a large turbo spool up as quickly as a small turbo without great alteration to the large turbo or running headers. So again We will have to agree to disagree. Ben I'm quite versed on turbo's because I spent allot of money learning about them when STS did not want to help me find a way to build a kit for H2's. But the twin deal was brought up by someone else and I had no entention of bringing it up myself except to be surprised that STS messed with twins when it states in the FAQ that it is not necessary and it would not be help. I proved to myself and have not every mentioned this research to anyone until now. I can say without a doubt the oldest members of this forum will tell You how thouroughly I research My ideas before I would even let someone else try them. I have many of the newer emebers PM Me wanting to get guidance on things. I have so many secret things going and KenP will vouch for that it would amase many who think I'm a country bumkin of which I am far from it but, yet know I can be wrong. Knowing that You can be wrong is the thing that keeps a sain man humble.
Thanks for Your time Ben let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. There are many therories out there that most have not pressed to discover unless they spent money to do it. It does not bother Me becuase My mind is so curious. The investment will pay off for Me someday soon.
Thanks for Your time Ben and for having the guts to come on hear and try to clear a few things up. But, the short story is We are very loyal to each other here and sometimes do not even like each other. But, when We need to rally behind a member it is hard to get anywhere but, I do commend You for trying and expect a small appoligie.
TAZ

[Rich S.]

Search for the threads on LS1.com and LS1Tech.com for many positive feedback postings on this system. I've piloted a couple of F-bodies with it and they drive incredibly well. It's a great bang for the buck IMHO. Tuning is the key in the LS series engines.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Personally I have already done that about a year ago. They are many success stories perticularly in the f body cars as they were the first that STS worked with as best i can tell and got alot of more developement time. We are talking about 7500 pound Hummer H2's. Totally a different case even if it is running a LS1 6.0L. Success in one does not mean success in another just because they have the similar or same engine, unless the same amount of R@D was put into the H2. Again You have to discuss Apples and Apples. Check out the difference in GVW in each vehicle. I would dare say i have an H2 setup right now with just a little more fine tuning would out run many F bodies or at the least give them a scare. My cousin just bought a new Corvette and We already have a race scheduled when I'm finished, which is in the next 2 weeks. Am I afraid not a bit I will smoke his butt and laugh at Him only because he is My cousin and when I mentioned it He just gigled and turned his nose up like the mighty Vette cannot be beat. He is in for a rude awaking. I have a buddy who knows Him and rode in it. I put Him in mine with it not finished with improvements and His comment was He could not reach up and touch the dash in My h2 but, could in the Vette. That gives Me even more reason to go for the juglar because My cousin and I have always been good friends but, there was always the feeling He would leave that He was superior and I at the time farmed 5000 acres and He had 900. I Love Him and would do anything for Him and He Me but when We line it up I'm going to eat his vette alive and spit the pieces out the back. He'll go cry to his wife and I'll have started a HP war between us. That is what makes it fun or it really is not worth doing it. I will be running almost twice the HP he is and I do not smoke the tires to get off the line. It is a whole shot. So yea I know about the LS1's etc. have researched them for a good while know some who run STS and are extremely happy but, I will eat them for lunch too just going to have to be one at a time. I mean I can get what i can without any engine mods, just wait till the heads and cams and muchmore are changed. I'm so far ahead of cous noew that it will be hard for him to catch up. I know where he has to go to get to me but, he does not know where I have gone to get where i am and what else I can do to get further ahead of Him. So just a little frinedly kin rivalry. But, it will play out with others as well.
TAZ
TAZ

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rich S.:
Search for the threads on LS1.com and LS1Tech.com for many positive feedback postings on this system. I've piloted a couple of F-bodies with it and they drive incredibly well. It's a great bang for the buck IMHO. Tuning is the key in the LS series engines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Rich, since you know so much, why don't you get one instead of asking about other options?<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Rich's first post about the Mag SC:
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5106011751/m/426108...261086621#4261086621 (http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5106011751/m/4261086621/r/4261086621#4261086621)
Bought a used 2004 H2 last week and I'm considering installing a magnacharger[QUOTE] [QUOTE] Rich's second post about Whipple:
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/4616043161/m/554109...361074721#5361074721 (http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/4616043161/m/5541093721/r/5361074721#5361074721)
Do they come with any tuning options included or any fuel system upgrades? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[KenP]

So I took your advice and here is a thread started 7 days ago on LS1tech titled Hydrolocked STS? STS just got to it yesterday. Interesting timing....:
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332601&highlight=sts (http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332601&amp;highlight=sts)
Some quotes: He "locked" up his first STS truck in a major downpour but was at full boost when it happened. He also had to drain out the water from the intake tubing. Compression and leakdown test showed the damage.

my car always does that in the rain never stalls out though i tend to always be in boost even in the rain but under normal driving conditions it runs ok

Yup, gotta be careful with rain

I lost compression and closed the gap on a wrist pin which lead me to a motor rebuild. I had tested compression a week before the water suckage and I was at 180-186 across the board. Then a couple days after the water problem I tested it again and 2 cylinders were at 140 and 163 while the rest were still at 180+. The motor knocked like a sun of a gun too and it eventually got so bad I was skerd to drive it anymore.

Well guys the rain fell like a mutherfalker yesterday Of course my daily driver was being driven during this massive rain storm. So I was driving as normal with the (filter sock on) and the car started to hesitate when I would give it some gas. Felt like a miss fire! Finally the car stalled out. So I pulled over and waited for the rain to calm down and the streets to drain off. Then I started the car up again and putted (literally) home. Now today when I went to start up the car it threw these engine codes = P0102, P0158, P0172, P0175. I started to drive the car to my g/f house when 1/2 mile from my house when accelerateing lightly it started to jerk again. So I turned around and went back home. When I was in the driveway I tried to clear it out by giving it little revs. It sounds and runs ok (idles fine) until about 3000rpms then starts to "putt". After letting it idle for a while I tried to drive it again and it juss feels like a miss on more than one cylinder

No boost in the rain either.

MAF is the problem. I had this problem on a road trip, sock on but was raining like a mofo. New sock might I add and no boost. Luckily I had HP tuners with me.

[Rich S.]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rich S.:
Search for the threads on LS1.com and LS1Tech.com for many positive feedback postings on this system. I've piloted a couple of F-bodies with it and they drive incredibly well. It's a great bang for the buck IMHO. Tuning is the key in the LS series engines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Rich, since you know so much, why don't you get one instead of asking about other options?<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Rich's first post about the Mag SC:
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5106011751/m/426108...261086621#4261086621 (http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5106011751/m/4261086621/r/4261086621#4261086621)
Bought a used 2004 H2 last week and I'm considering installing a magnacharger[QUOTE] [QUOTE] Rich's second post about Whipple:
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/4616043161/m/554109...361074721#5361074721 (http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/4616043161/m/5541093721/r/5361074721#5361074721)
Do they come with any tuning options included or any fuel system upgrades? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm considering many options a**hat http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif. Not going with an STS since I actually take some of my vehicles off road. There are more positive results than negative on the mentioned sites. I can post links all day as well.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

The way STS has them desinged to fit way up inbetween the frame, building a cage just for the pointy rocks that could reach up in there would take care of any of those issues.
Now for the filtering. The dry sock on I feel the off-road H2 will not have problems with the filtering dirty air as has been reported from wet conditions. So I guess I'm saying install it, build a cage, and use the dry sock to filter more heavily and all will be well.
Where there is a will there is a way.
TAZ

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rich S.:
Not going with an STS since I actually take some of my vehicles off road. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds like the best thing you've posted yet. Since you put a smiley in there, I'll stop here.

Taz, your probably right, a good cage attached to some very strong points on the chassis may do the trick. That and avoiding water.

[h2turbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RLTAZH2:
Ben We will have to agree to disagree although I fail to see My position as being
unprofessional as alluded to in Your response to my mentioning the twin work which is contray to the STS FAQ. If I touched a nerve it is best to remember that i am a man that will spend money that i earned to prove my self right if provocted to do so. So do not imply I'm unprofessional if it hurt to bring up something that is an issue of STS not my issue. I just brought up what your statements on your website maitains which STS has apparently by the mention of a twin turbo now conflicts with Your mission statement and yes Your answers to a FAQ is a mission statement if You did not know that. I feel you should know that You have offended Me over your comment of unprofessionalism over a statement STS makes. I own as I told you before 5 large companies and did not get there by being unprofessional. I expect an appoligie in a cordial way and all is forgotten as far as I'm concerned. I already have had the feeling of not being treated with respect on past issues so i will not be disrespected in My club family. You came here to discuss your product We did not invite You. I have not been unprofesional in anyway unless your and My idea of it is totaly different. I had felt good with the way things were going until this acusation by you about me bringing up Your own website statements. Nothing was meant by that except something has changed. You say even a year ago you will not do something and turn around and do it etc. etc. etc.
I paid money for one of the best custom turbo builders in Texas to help Me to look into this exact topic and Your theory which is not dead is short concerning the making of a large turbo to spin up as fast as a small turbo. It lies in the basics of the operation of turbos. The big turbos can be made to spool up quicker by having them custom made to twist the exhaust fins to catch the exhaust in larger volume and that is what We are talking about when We discuss the STS is the fact that because the turbo is farther back there is less parasitic loss because the temp of the gas is cooler and denser. You cannot take a off the shelf turbo and compete with other off the shelf smaller turbo that is designed to spool quicker than the big turbo. You have to talk apples to apples and oranges to oranges. The larger turbo would have to be altered or placed in a situation where You would be able to intensify the density of the gases passing by it thusly a set of headers which i was told would not work but, hurt the system. Not true if You want to spool a large turbo sooner as You get more volume than with stock exhaust. Again the whole purpose of STS. Staying with the perameters of the STS philosophy of why You built the system you did, with a larger turbo maitaining it's ability to spool up at it predesigned factory design was do to the heavy more dense gases. That is going by the rules that STS has designed and won awards on. It will not operate as effeciently trying to make it spool up faster without altering the design of the turbo which defeats the idea behind STS and also runs the cost of turbo's up considerable if You have to have them special built and then more R@D. I did my research based on STS ideas and then went out and found that yes You could use smaller turbos with a denser flow of gas, and the small one will spool up quicker everytime as long as the STS philosophy is followed. When I went outside those guide lines I found that it would be economically unfeasible to try and redesign the large turbo to spool up as quickly as the off the shelf design twin smaller turbos. You have a valid point but, I feel from the experience of spending My own money and working with one of the very best custom turbo builders You are wrong on making a large turbo spool up as quickly as a small turbo without great alteration to the large turbo or running headers. So again We will have to agree to disagree. Ben I'm quite versed on turbo's because I spent allot of money learning about them when STS did not want to help me find a way to build a kit for H2's. But the twin deal was brought up by someone else and I had no entention of bringing it up myself except to be surprised that STS messed with twins when it states in the FAQ that it is not necessary and it would not be help. I proved to myself and have not every mentioned this research to anyone until now. I can say without a doubt the oldest members of this forum will tell You how thouroughly I research My ideas before I would even let someone else try them. I have many of the newer emebers PM Me wanting to get guidance on things. I have so many secret things going and KenP will vouch for that it would amase many who think I'm a country bumkin of which I am far from it but, yet know I can be wrong. Knowing that You can be wrong is the thing that keeps a sain man humble.
Thanks for Your time Ben let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. There are many therories out there that most have not pressed to discover unless they spent money to do it. It does not bother Me becuase My mind is so curious. The investment will pay off for Me someday soon.
Thanks for Your time Ben and for having the guts to come on hear and try to clear a few things up. But, the short story is We are very loyal to each other here and sometimes do not even like each other. But, when We need to rally behind a member it is hard to get anywhere but, I do commend You for trying and expect a small appoligie.
TAZ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Taz,

My comment about keeping the thread professional was not directed to you. I apologize if you took it that way.

It was merely an attempt to keep the thread to questions and answers and not personal attacks.

The whole twin turbo question doesn't offend me and I don't see a conflict with our FAQ. If our customers demand twins or if the particular application is better suited to twins, then we'll do that. If it is better as a single, we'll go that route.

I can appreciate the loyalty of your club, but I see no reason to defend it. I have not attacked anyone in your club and have answered questions professionally when others have gone on the attack.

If the forum doesn't appreciate the effort and no one is interested in the products, that's fine. I'll cancel our sponsorship when it is due and we'll part ways.

I thought and still believe it is possible to look at each question and give people additional information.

Ben

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ben:
For $5195 this system comes complete with tuning and fuel system upgrades. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I really need to be clear here. I like turbos and have talked to a couple of guys about doing a 750hp TT on my next H2 (whenever the heck that will be http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif) so don't think I'm knocking turbos.

There is atleast one person here that's gotten a Mag SC installed at a dealer with warranty for under 5k. So there two options in the 5k range for HUMMERS. I guess each person needs to decide what is the better fit for them.

I'd still like to see the picks of the rock rail modifications.

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Posted by Ben:
I can appreciate the loyalty of your club, but I see no reason to defend it. I have not attacked anyone in your club and have answered questions professionally when others have gone on the attack.

If the forum doesn't appreciate the effort and no one is interested in the products, that's fine. I'll cancel our sponsorship when it is due and we'll part ways.

I thought and still believe it is possible to look at each question and give people additional information. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry Ben, you snuck that in when I was typing. I hope you don't think my questions are meant as an attack on you or your product. I have lots of questions that were not answered months ago by some considering the STS.

Most of us appreciate, very much, the efforts put forth by your company. It is a very unique product and I'm sure you'll sell many here.

Lastly, I for one, appreciate your answers. As I stated above, I have many questions. Well, really not anymore as you've answered all of them except one. The rock rails. I'm sure you'll get to that one when you can.

Thanks again for taking the time to help us out.

[h2turbo]

As soon as we can get a H2 in here I'll post up the pics of the rail. We've got a busy couple of weeks ahead of our R&D guys, so it could be a while.

I agree that people need to do what is best for them. That is what makes the world go round.

The good thing, either way, we are talking about adding a lot more power to the H2, which is a heckuva lot of fun! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Ben

[h2turbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Posted by Ben:
I can appreciate the loyalty of your club, but I see no reason to defend it. I have not attacked anyone in your club and have answered questions professionally when others have gone on the attack.

If the forum doesn't appreciate the effort and no one is interested in the products, that's fine. I'll cancel our sponsorship when it is due and we'll part ways.

I thought and still believe it is possible to look at each question and give people additional information. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry Ben, you snuck that in when I was typing. I hope you don't think my questions are meant as an attack on you or your product. I have lots of questions that were not answered months ago by some considering the STS.

Most of us appreciate, very much, the efforts put forth by your company. It is a very unique product and I'm sure you'll sell many here.

Lastly, I for one, appreciate your answers. As I stated above, I have many questions. Well, really not anymore as you've answered all of them except one. The rock rails. I'm sure you'll get to that one when you can.

Thanks again for taking the time to help us out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

KenP

I did not feel like you were attacking the product. It is new and you've had valid questions. I'm sure the people on the forum who have read the thread appreciate you asking them.

Ben

[h2turbo]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2Turbo:
At the volumes that we could commit to the warranty was going to be too expensive. As our volumes increase, the price of the warranty will go down and we will start to offer it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If you know the answer to this I'll be surprised, but I'll ask anyway because it just popped in my head. If I don't ask it'll drive me crazy. If someone has your setup installed now and a warranty becomes available later, will you make it available to them also? And lastly, using your current sales and install figures and future projections, how long until one is ready? Best guess?

Thanks again, Ben. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a good question. When I talk to the insurance company I'll ask them if we can sell a warranty to those systems that were already installed by authorized dealers.

Based on current projections, I would think that we'd have enough volume in 6 months. If things don't go as well as hoped, probably another year.

Ben

[PARAGON]

Damn, you been saving your words up? Glad to see you back. Can we expect more Taz-like posts. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

What do you think about heat back at the rear diff in an off-road rock-crawly type situation. There will not be hardly any air flow since the truck will be barely moving but the truck will be loading up and working to make obstacles. Do you think heat would be an issue in those instances?

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Damn, you been saving your words up? Glad to see you back. Can we expect more Taz-like posts. Wink </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was waiting for that. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif That's a valid question Paragon. I'm not a rock crawler so do you think a person would be on it hard enough to actually be in boost for any period of time? I don't know. But there's more clearance between the differential and turbo than the pictures indicate. And most of the heat goes up. You know the cat converters are just a few inchs from the floor of the H2 and they get very hot. I can't honestly answer your question except to say it wouldn't concern me if I were to go crawling.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LasVegas:
I was waiting for that. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nice to be predictable. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Do you hear the turbo whine when it has spooled up like one that's under the hood?

Do you know if the torque management is removed in the PCM tune?

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LasVegas:
I was waiting for that. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nice to be predictable. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Do you hear the turbo whine when it has spooled up like one that's under the hood?

Do you know if the torque management is removed in the PCM tune? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh yes. When you go into serious boost you hear the spool-up and the wastegate. The Nelso tune leaves the torque management in but from what I see in Dennis' post all you have to do is hit the tow/haul button to eliminate that.

[LasVegas]

A few other things I forgot to mention:

1. After removing the stock air filter box you have an abundance of room to mount other accessories under the hood.
2. You could get the kit less the injectors & tune and then buy the injectors yourself and have you're local speed shop do the tune. Probably save a net of about $400
3. I added a small inline oil filter to the return oil line. Probably not necessary but a nice precaution they should consider.
4. With all that water splashing on your air filter it should keep it nice and clean! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[Camman]

Hey All,
I had the H2 into STS today for an upgrade with an Methonal System and also re-routed the air filter from the turbo. I noticed when the airfilter was moved the noise of the Turbo was much less. STS did a great job on the Methonal Kit, dropped the EGT's coming over the point of the mountain today by 200 degrees F. The advice for moving the air filter came from an earlier post on page 2, that was a good idea.......thanks. I don't have access to a good digital camera, but I think Ben from STS took some pictures of the rock-guard issue to be able to post. Sorry, my pics were too dark..........
I really like the turbo kit.........it is fun to get out of the way when you need to.......
One thing you may need to think about is the the exhaust noise..........if you like the sound of a good V8, this is a great options, if you want to sneak up on a deer while road hunting, may want to do something different.
Never meant to offend anybody about the oil, I was just stating a fact..........sorry!!!!!!
We need to all get along here................have an great night all.

[DennisAJC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LasVegas:
The Nelso tune leaves the torque management in but from what I see in Dennis' post all you have to do is hit the tow/haul button to eliminate that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey! Don't knock it! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

That's ma po man's version of an SC. I'll be getting one soon. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Call Nelson and if STS will allow it He will custom the PCM to suit Your needs better. It just depends if STS will mined or not. He most likely will send You a PCM changed and give you a core credit when He gets Your PCM back to Him.
He can do what ever You ask if within guidelines of STS.
TAZ

[KenP]

Methanol keeps creeping up. I may have to check it out. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Lean Machine]

How susceptible is the STS Turbo Sysytem setup to water? If I run my H2 through an automated car wash and the undercarriage is washed with jets of water shooting straight up, could this cause water to be sucked up through the filter with this system in place? During heavy rain down pours, several streets near my house can't handle all of the water. I have driven down these streets during these down pours. Near the street gutters, the water just stands. I have hit these spots and so much water splashed up I couldn't see out of my widshield for a second or two. With the STS turbo system in place, whould this situation cause me a problem? I would hate to spend thousands of dollars on a performance product and be afraid to drive around in the rain.
Also do I understand this correctly. For the system to fit on a stock H2, you bend brackets, cut rock rails, etc. Was this sysytem not designed to fit in a H2? I always thought if something was designed for a particular use, it should fit without any additional modification. A stock STS system should fit a stock H2 without additional modification. You should not have to make it fit, it should fit when you buy it. Forgive me if my questions are rudimental. But it sounds a little like the STS H2 turbo system is not quite ready for mass production and distribution. Still has development issues for its designed use.
I'm intrigued by the STS turbo system, but there are so many issues.

[LasVegas]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lean Machine:
How susceptible is the STS Turbo Sysytem setup to water? If I run my H2 through an automated car wash and the undercarriage is washed with jets of water shooting straight up, could this cause water to be sucked up through the filter with this system in place? During heavy rain down pours, several streets near my house can't handle all of the water. I have driven down these streets during these down pours. Near the street gutters, the water just stands. I have hit these spots and so much water splashed up I couldn't see out of my widshield for a second or two. With the STS turbo system in place, whould this situation cause me a problem? I would hate to spend thousands of dollars on a performance product and be afraid to drive around in the rain.
Also do I understand this correctly. For the system to fit on a stock H2, you bend brackets, cut rock rails, etc. Was this sysytem not designed to fit in a H2? I always thought if something was designed for a particular use, it should fit without any additional modification. A stock STS system should fit a stock H2 without additional modification. You should not have to make it fit, it should fit when you buy it. Forgive me if my questions are rudimental. But it sounds a little like the STS H2 turbo system is not quite ready for mass production and distribution. Still has development issues for its designed use.
I'm intrigued by the STS turbo system, but there are so many issues. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I have the kit on my H2. I too run my rig through a car wash with the engine running and never had a problem. A simple splash guard would insure you of no problems. STS may be working on something like that. You do have to cut a bit of the rock rail bracket in one place to accomodate the pipe. No big deal. Other than that it's a straight forward installation and I love mine.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Ken looking into water/methanol injection now. See several I like. I have a forced induction guy who likes to use small amount of nitrous for cooling fuel and nitrous never gets into the cylinder as far as enough to get any power from it. Going to look at that but, most I have visited with likes the W/M injection.
The nitrous would be simpler to use so will give it a serious look. Set it up with bottle etc. and inject nitrous at WOT just like W/M.
TAZ

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
Methanol keeps creeping up. I may have to check it out. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The methanol route is a popular and sucessful one on the turbo/blower scene. There are kits available for the current wave of hi-po cars that would be easily adaptable to the H2. If for nothing else, a reserve for extreme duty/hi temp conditions would still be a good investment.

Even with the confidence of STS and their kit's tune...I still would have to say that the mahufaturer's tune is a "Get it to the local performance shop" tune. Each vehicle will respond differently to the new found power and a a/f checked dyno is about maditory.

[h2turbo]

A couple people have requested pics of the snorkel kit for the H2.

To install this you remove the wheel splash guard, install the snorkel hose/filter and replace the splash guard.

As you can see it sits about the same level as where you put the gas in the H2.

Ben

[h2turbo]

2nd pic with the splashguard re-installed.