SUPERCHARGERS-PRO CHARGERS VS MAGNA SUPERCHARGERS

[H2BRUTE]

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE WITH EITHER OF THESE TYPES ON AN H2? POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE ANY COMMENTS APPRECIATED. THANKS

[H2BRUTE]

DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE WITH EITHER OF THESE TYPES ON AN H2? POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE ANY COMMENTS APPRECIATED. THANKS

[H2_SUT_SC]

I know a lot of dealers install Magna chargers and thus do not void the warranty when installed by the dealer.

[H2BRUTE]

Thanks, I know that if you don't buy it from the dealer, you can still get a 3 yr warranty for it as well. Not sure if that voids the rest of the three year warranty on the h2. I'm trying to get some info regarding performance or either of these two superchargers..I've wanted to install one, but ended up working backwards. So far I've installed a Bassani exhaust which is really fine. Just love the deep throated sound. Did it without the spouse knowing and when she got into the BRUTE, and I started it up, she said why is it noisy. I said I did a few things to it, to which she replied, please turn it off..It still roars..

[Induction Concepts]

Stick with the roots type (magnacharger, whipple, kenne bell, etc.). ATI/Procharger, Vortech, Powerdyne, Paxton, etc., are all centrifugal superchargers. Their boost curve is rpm based meaning they don't make maximum boost until redline, where a roots type blower makes boost right off idle and has a nice, flat torque curve like turbos.

Plus, centrifugal superchargers are attached to the front of the engine with brackets, like an alternator or power steering pump. These brackets tend to flex because they have problems with belt slippage, so people make the belts tighter and tighter, then the bracket flexes and tosses the belt off (or destroys it), which could strand you. Roots type superchargers sit on top of, or are part of your intake manifold, so no bracket to flex.

The only downside to the roots styles (for your application anyway) is that they have a limit to the power they can make, but it should be more than enough power for what you guys are doing. I don't know for sure, but I'd guess in the 500-700hp range. So for your application, this couldn't really be considered a down side.

They make very large centrifugal superchargers that can make 2500hp.

Roots type is the better choice for your application.

[MUH_HUM]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2BRUTE:
I said I did a few things to it, to which she replied, please turn it off..It still roars.. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh no. Scramble time. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[H2BRUTE]

Thanks Rad. You confirmed the one I was leaning toward..

[Fubar]

H2brute,
Installing a SC voids your factory extended warranty.

Having a dealer do the install will usually get you a dealer honored 12 month warranty.

Purchasing the extend warranty from the SC company gets you 3 years of power train coverage so it's a wash in my opinion. You loose the factory warranty but so long as the dealer will stand behind the install you still have 3 years of coverage.

You can expect 500 horse at the motor doing a stock SC install along with your other mods assuming you're not changing the pulley size. You'll lose 1/3 of that horse power from drive train component lose so do the math and you'll have a pretty close idea of what kind of power is reaching the wheels.

Yes do stick with a Roots type SC.

Good luck and enjoy the SC. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Humdingah]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Induction Concepts:
Stick with the roots type (magnacharger, whipple, kenne bell, etc.).

...where a roots type blower makes boost right off idle and has a nice, flat torque curve like turbos.

Roots type is the better choice for your application. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ummm, I'll go easy on you since you're a turbo dude but the only true Roots-type blower that you mentioned is the MagnaCharger (based upon an Eaton 112 rotor pack). The Whipple and Kenne-Bell are both actually screw-type superchargers. A fair bit of difference as the screw-types tend to produce roughly the same torque characteristics down low but don't drop off as much up top as a true Roots blower does. That and the screw-types actually use the rotors to compress the air whereas a Roots-type blower uses the case to compress the air. And last but not least, the screw-types are manufactured with minimal clearances between the two rotors, whereas the Roots-type rotors actually touch one another thereby increasing the amount of heat added to the air charge by the blower due to friction. Additionally, because of this rotor contact a Roots will also rob a bit more hp to drive it...

The screw-type blowers are by far the better choice but for a blower that may never see the high side of 8 psi I'd go with the Roots-style MagnaCharger.

Can you also throw up a few dyno pulls of some turbos? Of the few hundred that I've seen they tend not to make the big torque numbers until they spool...I've yet to see a turbo dyno that produced a flat torque curve unless you're only looking at the portion of the graph after the turbo(s) has hit maximum boost.

[Induction Concepts]

I was just speaking generally. To help this person understand the major differences between the roots/screw type blowers and centrifugal types. I wasn't breaking it into the sub-categories of roots or screw, just roots/screw types (together), because they are similar, and centrifugal types.

[Induction Concepts]

As far as turbos spooling, if they are chosen correctly, they make power down low, but I consider 'down low' to be in the 2500-3000rpm range. Even from idle, with properly sized turbos, it is a very small frame of time between then and full boost at 3000rpms. Of course if you have 1500hp worth of turbo(s), its not going to spool at 2500-3000rpms, but if you are looking for that kind of power level, that is usually a non-issue.

And yes, you are correct, I was talking about a torque curve for a turbo after it has spooled. Many dynos don't register properly below 3000rpms anyway. On the street, a system setup for boost at 2500-3000rpms is about right, because thats right where your engine spends a lot of its time so you're already in the spool range or very close to it. I mean when you floor it, how long does it take to go from 1500rpms to 2500rpms, not long. It all comes down to the power level and purpose desired for the application. You can make a setup that will spool right off idle, but don't expect 800hp out of it.

Anyway, as I said, I was only trying to help the person asking, not turn this into a turbo thread or supercharger debate.

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2BRUTE:
DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE WITH EITHER OF THESE TYPES ON AN H2? POSITIVE OR NEGATIVE ANY COMMENTS APPRECIATED. THANKS </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Yes and all my comments would be positive.
http://www.lingenfelter.com/0-60.mpeg

I guess there was one bad thing. The bearings needed replacing and Magnusson didn't warrant it. Fortunately LPE stepped up and took care of it.

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

That video is almost as good a girl on girl prOn. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Did someone say turbo? http://www.livernoismotorsports.com/downloads/escalade128.wmv

[Humdingah]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Induction Concepts:
Anyway, as I said, I was only trying to help the person asking, not turn this into a turbo thread or supercharger debate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not debating the merits of one over the other, as both certainly have their place, just trying to be both grammatically and technically correct.

[H2_SUT_SC]

Awesome info from both you guys.

[Humdingah]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Induction Concepts:
As far as turbos spooling, if they are chosen correctly, they make power down low, but I consider 'down low' to be in the 2500-3000rpm range. Even from idle, with properly sized turbos, it is a very small frame of time between then and full boost at 3000rpms. Of course if you have 1500hp worth of turbo(s), its not going to spool at 2500-3000rpms, but if you are looking for that kind of power level, that is usually a non-issue.

And yes, you are correct, I was talking about a torque curve for a turbo after it has spooled. Many dynos don't register properly below 3000rpms anyway. On the street, a system setup for boost at 2500-3000rpms is about right, because thats right where your engine spends a lot of its time so you're already in the spool range or very close to it. I mean when you floor it, how long does it take to go from 1500rpms to 2500rpms, not long. It all comes down to the power level and purpose desired for the application. You can make a setup that will spool right off idle, but don't expect 800hp out of it.

Anyway, as I said, I was only trying to help the person asking, not turn this into a turbo thread or supercharger debate. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I do have to agree with everything you said above but I'd call 2500-3000 rpm, on a 6-6500 rpm motor, more mid range. And obviously a turbo spools much quicker under a real load than on a Dynojet but, for better or worse, Dynojet readings seem to be the de facto standard for measuring hp.

The nice thing about any positive displacement supercharger, Roots or twin-screw, is near instant maximum boost. From just off-idle to well into the mid-range (and higher with a twin-screw) the + displacement will provide constant maximum boost. A good thing for a 6,400 lb. brick. Now if it were a 3,400 lb. car with a smaller, faster revving motor and you could get it rolling with significantly less torque I'd go with a turbo.

I'm impressed with some of the stuff that Livernois is doing with turbos and their Escalade definitely runs but in the video you can hear him stalling it up to spool the turbo before launching. Here's a dyno graph of a Silverado with a turbo motor (a T-76 Q-trim) and, while an impressive gain of 125 ft.-lbs. over the stock motor at 3500 rpm the turbo isn't fully spooled until it's pushing 4000 rpm.

http://www.neufamily.org/03html/dyno4.jpg


A decent + displacement supercharger is going to produce that much torque at 2,000 rpm (my Lightning threw down 540 ft.-lbs. on the stock Eaton at 15 lbs. at 2,800 rpm and it was probably higher but I hadn't programmed it to lock-out the downshifts so I couldn't get readings from lower in the rpm range).

So, picks your poison - either off-idle grunt with a + displacement supercharger or a top-end pull that doesn't stop with a turbo. It's all up to what you want to do with the vehicle.

[Orbital H2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I guess there was one bad thing. The bearings needed replacing and Magnusson didn't warrant it. Fortunately LPE stepped up and took care of it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SC Bearings or Engine Bearings?

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Orbital H2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I guess there was one bad thing. The bearings needed replacing and Magnusson didn't warrant it. Fortunately LPE stepped up and took care of it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

SC Bearings or Engine Bearings? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>SC.

This Turbo vs. SC has been hashed over again and again. There's lots of info on this site about it.

[Humdingah]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
This Turbo vs. SC has been hashed over again and again. There's lots of info on this site about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps the more informative posts could be combined and/or 'stickied' so as to never have to go through this again...

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Humdingah:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
This Turbo vs. SC has been hashed over again and again. There's lots of info on this site about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Perhaps the more informative posts could be combined and/or 'stickied' so as to never have to go through this again... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Then we would have pages and pages of "stickied" threads.

That's what the find button is for.

[Denny Crane]

I've lived with our Kenne Bell system for almost 2 years and 20K miles.

To date the only thing i've had to do is add Mobile 1 to the S.C. about 3x am year.

We did shell a tranny due to a line failure in the radiator all covered under the extended factory warranty.

We have all the power we need and still average in the 11's on gas mileage.

The K.B. system can be installed in about 6 hours far less intrusive to the factory wiring and no silly additional fuel pumps or extra parts, relays etc.

No need for a intercooler like Mgnus. all in all a great addition.

They do it right! new injectors, new ECM program , a single bracket, no relocating anything.

Ask for Ken Christley tell him denny L. sent ya.

If you want additional power or a custom tuned program contact Nelson Performance.

Very happy customer with both.

Now I see Range Rover offers a Supercharged version, no wonder IT ROCKS.

D

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

The point that gets lost here is that:

A-Turbos are more efficient with the given boost, and

2-A smaller housed turbo would spool up wherever you want it to in the powerband/RPM range.

So,even with less boost, the turbo could effectivly make more HP than a similar blower set-up.

If you are truly interested, read the pages in this link.

http://www.turbochargedpower.com/magazine_articles.htm

Look for the "Boost Shootout" and "Boost Bash" articles. Although the premise of the engines are different, the results will still be the same.

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by Denny Crane:
If you want additional power or a custom tuned program contact Nelson Performance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>They are one of, if not, THE best in the country.

All-in-all it depends on your application and performance needs. For offroading and around town driving, my application can't be beat. Grossly high low end torque and the ability to pull this monster through a mid 14 1/4mi.

If I do another H2, it will be a TT setup. But that would be a different application. And I'll be towing an H3 around. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif