CoolCharger

[H2Singh]

My dealership has finally offered some performance upgrades. Any one have experience with the coolcharger supercharger system. The dealer price is about $15K for the whole system which includes the CoolCharger system, stahl torque something, and titanium coated headers - not the exhaust, I already have it. Opinions about price, quality, impressions. They claim around 185 hp improvement & will honor my warranty. I have not negotiated with them yet, but have asked if they want to sponsor my vehicle since they just started offering it and have only done 3 vehicles. Thanks in advance for all constructive feedback.

[H2Singh]

My dealership has finally offered some performance upgrades. Any one have experience with the coolcharger supercharger system. The dealer price is about $15K for the whole system which includes the CoolCharger system, stahl torque something, and titanium coated headers - not the exhaust, I already have it. Opinions about price, quality, impressions. They claim around 185 hp improvement & will honor my warranty. I have not negotiated with them yet, but have asked if they want to sponsor my vehicle since they just started offering it and have only done 3 vehicles. Thanks in advance for all constructive feedback.

[HummerNewbie]

I am in no way an expert but that sure seems high to me. Could be wrong though.

[H2Singh]

The coolcharger supercharger kit alone is $9600, the other stahl torgue converter and headers and tax are the other parts that make it $14k and change -- about $15k. here is the coolcharger website http://www.dyno-proven.com/coolcharger.htm - hey Humm This, tell me more about the difference, any negatives or problems, noise, jerkiness, responsiveness??

[shipbldr]

Damn!

I spent $4700 for my Mag. Radix supercharger.

Hummersgonewild (HGW) installed it for a little over $1000 bucks. (The installation was surgical!) They's done dozens of supercharger installs.

I bolted on a Borla catback for $900.

The acceleration on my H2 is damn frightening... and I haven't even spent half what your dealer is asking....

Call Hummersgonewild (http://www.hummersgonewild.com). At the rates you are looking at you could ship it to Jersey, get HGW to install it, and ship it back to your door and still be $5000 ahead of the game.

my 2 cents...

[Timster]

Don't do it!
I had a Cool Charger (Dyno Proven Products) on my 2004 Denali.
I had the Supercharger replaced 6 times. Yes SIX times! The bearings kept going out. Walk away as fast as you can!
If you want a S/C go with either Magna Charger or Whipple.
Best of luck in what ever you decide,
Tim

PS
185 HP Gain! That's BS. Ask them how they will prove it?
You will need before and after Dyno test's and four wheel dynos are rare.
I have allot of experience dyno'ing vehicles. To get 185 hp you have to spend big $$$$.
I est I got at the most about 20% increase in HP. The Denali has the same motor as the H2 the Vortec 6.0 ltr.

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

The Powerdyne..er...Coolcharger is a centrifical blower. This is not the hot setup for a 6400lb truck that needs torque. The asking price is plain stupid. I wouldn't pay 1/2 that amount. A typical quality centrifical runs 4K-5K for tha package. Go with the roots/twin screw type blower package with intercooler.

I would have to slap the clowns who offer this way over priced setup.

[Sportsdude]

Do you know how much HP/TQ gain on your setup? How many miles did you have before the SC install? Thanks
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by shipbldr:
Damn!

I spent $4700 for my Mag. Radix supercharger.

Hummersgonewild (HGW) installed it for a little over $1000 bucks. (The installation was surgical!) They's done dozens of supercharger installs.

I bolted on a Borla catback for $900.

The acceleration on my H2 is damn frightening... and I haven't even spent half what your dealer is asking....

Call Hummersgonewild (http://www.hummersgonewild.com). At the rates you are looking at you could ship it to Jersey, get HGW to install it, and ship it back to your door and still be $5000 ahead of the game.

my 2 cents... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Other than My own forced induction mechanic HGW is the only one I would want doing My install and Anthony John's head guy is the only one I would allow to work on it or even give Me advice about My H2.

[shipbldr]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Sportsdude:
Do you know how much HP/TQ gain on your setup? How many miles did you have before the SC install? Thanks
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I installed the Borla at 2,000 miles... the SC at about 14,000 miles.

The exhuast sounded great but made no difference that I could feel in performance.

The supercharger 100% changed the truck.

We didn't do any dyno testing and I probably won't unless I can find it for free.

All the information I really need to know I get when I step on the gas. It's really easy to blow people off at stoplights.

Cruises on the highway effortlessly at 80mph.

Downshifting on the highway and hills is now very rare.

I think faster, it goes faster. No downshift, no struggle.

More than anything it reminds me of a BMW 318 I used to drive. (This is high praise from me)

The entire driveline is just very stout and competent.

I have the feeling that it would be really hard to notice an extra 35-50 HP in on the road driving.

Next step up would be to do one of those predator 800HP diesels... That would be really sick!

Start with the supercharger. You may find that you are totally happy with it. If you aren't you can easily add things like headers and other goodies later.

Remember the 80/20 rule. 80% of the benefit usually comes from 20% of the effort/expense.

[Timster]

I had the CoolCharger for 18 months and put 34K miles on it.
The overall reliability is not there.

[MovinH2]

I'd say it's a pretty good deal. Almost 10k for the coolcharger plus the other upgrades, and labor. Doesn't seem bad to me.

[Timster]

First sign of the bearing going out is a noise or growling sound that comes and goes. Cold or hot it doesn't matter. I had this problem several times. When I took it to the dealer the sound was there then it's went away. Luckly it came back while they were walking away. The service Manager turned his head and I said "Can you here it now!"
I hope you do not have to go thru what I went through! You can see the bearing going out by looking at the pulley and compairing it to the other OEM parts, the pulley will start to wobble slightly, it's all down hill from there!
Best of luck to you,
Tim

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MovinH2:
I'd say it's a pretty good deal. Almost 10k for the coolcharger plus the other upgrades, and labor. Doesn't seem bad to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And you base this opinion off of what? Compared to what? Are you joking?

[MovinH2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">The coolcharger supercharger kit alone is $9600, the other stahl torgue converter and headers and tax are the other parts that make it $14k and change -- about $15k. here is the coolcharger website http://www.dyno-proven.com/coolcharger.htm - hey Humm This, tell me more about the difference, any negatives or problems, noise, jerkiness, responsiveness?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



14k plus I would put labor at a dealer at 1500 at least. that's 15,500. Are you joking?

[HGW]

I read as much of this as I could--down with a cold--too many late night events recently.

The price is crazy and the charger is not the right one for an H2.

More later ........

[HGW]

shipbldr: I am ready to do the Predator 800 HP diesel for you! I know the guy of there.

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MovinH2:
14k plus I would put labor at a dealer at 1500 at least. that's 15,500. Are you joking? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Nope-That is stupid expensive and I want to know where you are getting your comparison numbers from. Being that I have:
1-Bought numerous blowers before.
2-Paid to have a few of them installed.
3-Have a friend who owns a Hi-Po shop and can tell me the cost(s) of said items and work. I have my numbers based on past and current values.

Where did you pull the "Doesn't seem bad to me" idea from?

[MovinH2]

So you can get me a Coolcharger for much less than 9K. If you can I have a few people that will jump all over that.

[H2Singh]

someone real smart and organized jump in please, make it an easy poll or something.

1. Which supercharger is best for H2. Keeping warranty in mind - please!
2. What other mods are needed for maximum gain in performance - keeping value in mind, nothing too outrageously expensive?
3. What price is reasonable for the above answers?

[shipbldr]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2Singh:
someone real smart and organized jump in please, make it an easy poll or something.

1. Which supercharger is best for H2. Keeping warranty in mind - please!
2. What other mods are needed for maximum gain in performance - keeping value in mind, nothing too outrageously expensive?
3. What price is reasonable for the above answers? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Look... all the superchargers are going on the same engine block in the same truck.

So long as the supercharger is no overboosted and pre-detonating...

ALL the ROOTS-type units will be darn near the SAME.
ALL the CENTRIFICAL units will be darn near the SAME.

Blowing air is blowing air.

what changes things:

Intercooler (help)
New valve head (Big HP, big $)
Overbore block
Better programming of trans
Headers
Gearing

Note the above list has little to do with the supercharger. If the unit you buy is functional... the differences between brands are not very big on the street. You might see the differences at the dyno... but you will have a hard time seeing them at the stoplight...

my 2 cents...

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MovinH2:
So you can get me a Coolcharger for much less than 9K. If you can I have a few people that will jump all over that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Tell me how many kits you want and prefered method of payment. I will drop ship them to your door.

[MovinH2]

I'm going to drop you a PM if your serious and can get them much cheaper I have a few friends that would probably jump at this offer. They were going to pay the 9k at the dealer to have the factory warranty, but if you can do a few grand off sticker they might jump at that.

I'm droping you a PM as we speak.

[HGW]

Sorry, I still do not understand.

Is the factory warranty the issue because you won't get one. You dealer may honor the H2 factory warranty at his own expense, but he will never submit the papperwork to GM.

Should there be an engine problem, the dealer can get a new short block for the price he is charging above the real cost of the SC. The whole deal is a rip off and a centrifugal SC does not make boost until 2000-3000 RPM and does not make max boost until red line.

I have to be missing something here because the prices are way out of whack.

[MovinH2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Sorry, I still do not understand.

Is the factiry warranty the issue because you won't get one. You dealer may honor the H2 warranty at his own expense, but he will never submit the papperwork to GM.

Should there be an engine problem, the dealer can get a new short block for the price he is charging above the real cost of the SC. THe whole deal is a rip off and a centrifugal SC does not make boost until 2000-3000 RPM and does not make max boost until red line.

I have to be missing something here because the prices are way out of whack. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Yes my main issue and my friends is the warranty. We were told that they would honor it if anything went wrong. Rather that be them honoring it or GM I'm not sure. What do you feel would be a better SC to run than? Is there anything out there that won't do too much damage to my engine. My concerns are i'm going to fry it and be having a complete rebuild.

From what I've been told even if you buy the Coolcharger out right and do the install yourself you'll have to pay over 9500. Is that wrong?

I've also been told GM is using the CoolCharger on a lot of their project cars and the reason why is it's the safest on your engine thus the reason they can warranty it.

Maybe I'm getting some poor info and just don't know it.

[HummerNewbie]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MovinH2:
Yes my main issue and my friends is the warranty. We were told that they would honor it if anything went wrong. Rather that be them honoring it or GM I'm not sure. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There is a big difference in if the dealer or GM honor the warranty. What are you going to do if you are a thousand miles from your dealer and there is a problem. It would be on your dime to fix it and then try to get them to reimburse you.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MovinH2:
From what I've been told even if you buy the Coolcharger out right and do the install yourself you'll have to pay over 9500. Is that wrong? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am by no means an expert on this and just going off of memory what others have said but I think you can get one for between $4k and $5K.

[MovinH2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">There is a big difference in if the dealer or GM honor the warranty. What are you going to do if you are a thousand miles from your dealer and there is a problem. It would be on your dime to fix it and then try to get them to reimburse you. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I'm actually getting an oil change tomorrow so I'm going to make sure to ask if it's a GM warranty or dealer.

[H2Singh]

funny thing, my whole supercharger rampage started at the dealer a couple of days ago, when I had my 1st oil change... Please ask your dealer what happens if its not GM warranty and you are going for service at another dealership for a warranty issue b/c you are too far from them?

You are right after doing some research it seems that most GM branded dealers are doing more "coolcharger" brand sc on their trucks a few are doing the magnuson.

To - HGW, when does the magnuson start producing boost, you mentioned that coolcharger's start at 2-3K rpm. By the way the dealers install includes an intercooler, new air intake and new ECU that is programmed for the SC and the H2 engine.

The warranty issue is number one for me, I am more worried about tranny issues in the future, more than engine issues.

Although their quote is close to $15K for everything I want (SC, titanium coated headers, and stahl torque converter all installed and warrantied, includes tuning) I think they will knock off about 33% after negotiating, this they have done for me in the past for my exhaust and other aftermarket items on two different instances, plus they said they would switch my corsa sport exhaust for the touring, which I want.

I have also asked them to sponsor my vehicle since they are just starting the highperformance shop now, ... wish me luck.

[MovinH2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">funny thing, my whole supercharger rampage started at the dealer a couple of days ago, when I had my 1st oil change... Please ask your dealer what happens if its not GM warranty and you are going for service at another dealership for a warranty issue b/c you are too far from them?

You are right after doing some research it seems that most GM branded dealers are doing more "coolcharger" brand sc on their trucks a few are doing the magnuson.

To - HGW, when does the magnuson start producing boost, you mentioned that coolcharger's start at 2-3K rpm. By the way the dealers install includes an intercooler, new air intake and new ECU that is programmed for the SC and the H2 engine.

The warranty issue is number one for me, I am more worried about tranny issues in the future, more than engine issues.

Although their quote is close to $15K for everything I want (SC, titanium coated headers, and stahl torque converter all installed and warrantied, includes tuning) I think they will knock off about 33% after negotiating, this they have done for me in the past for my exhaust and other aftermarket items on two different instances, plus they said they would switch my corsa sport exhaust for the touring, which I want.

I have also asked them to sponsor my vehicle since they are just starting the highperformance shop now, ... wish me luck. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Finally someone else in the same boat as me. I will ask them tomorrow and drop you a PM as soon as I get home. Same as you warranty is number one. And if that means paying a bit more I will. I was told by the guy that installs them at my dealer that CoolChargers are pretty much all GM will use because they are easy to work on, and don't have as many problems as other superchargers thus the reason they can warranty them. They use them on a new Supped up Esclade so I'm guessing thats under GM warranty than. I mean how can GM build them "with" the Coolcharger and not warranty them? So my guess is that GM will warranty them on any truck if done at a dealer.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Not knowing who You are near other than your dealer but, I would suggest you really give Ligenfelter, HGW, or My shop at getting You allot more for Your money.
I know John and I can. LPE is going to be higher than the 2 of Us most likely.
that is just way to much money.
If You had a good dealer like Mine He says do what You want if it comes in broke haul it back to dealer with all stock equip. on it and I see no problem with warranty. He said that is why you pay the price You do and for the extended warranty. He said We are performance oriented and if You mess around and get Us more recognition, which I have done, We have Your back on everything.

TAZ

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

Ok..a small blower lesson is called for here.

1-Centrifical blowers,like the Cool Charger/Powerdyne unit is going to build boost starting at about 2500rpms. The boost will gradualy increase as rpm increases. 1psi at 2500, 2psi at 3500,3.5 at 3500...ect. This type of unit makes its boost at higher rpms.if you go higher, like to 10-12 psi, the last 5 lbs would hit in a span of 2000 rpm. Hence, an absolute monster in the top end range.

2-A Lycholm/twin screw type unit starts its boost at 2000 rpm, but the entire 5-6 psi checks in by about 3500 rpm. Hence, a much better unit for low/mid range rpm levels.


The bottom line is that although a centrifical blower will make a difference in performance, the twin screw unit will give the more desired effect to the H2. And that is a kick in the ass down low.

The GM warranty covers drivetrain if nothing from the throttle body to the exhaust manifolds have not been tampered with. Yes, if you roll up with a blown block and a blower installed, the local GM rep is going to try to void out the warranty. This has been fought and won. It has also been fought and lost.

***OPINION***- I have my reservations about Coolcharger's warranty, and, to a lesser extent, Magnusons warranty. I do not believe it will turn out to be worth a hell'o beans if a major engine failure occurs. Understand, I have no practical warranty experience with the warranties of either product. ***OPINION OFF***

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

My dealer and I worked out the being off somewhere and a bobo happens is I have it shipped back saving allot of money but, not having the new dealer look it over and kicking Me out. So I look at it as ins. paying for a hauler to get it home and if i'm not ready to go home I rent something fun like a Vette to play with and fly back.
Our warranty whether factory or extended is only as good as your dealer is.
I'm working with a group to build another rig for speed records and dealer is so excited I think He is going to furnish the H2 We will use.
Most dealers are on the opposite end of this scale. Most of You know that first hand.

TAZ

[HGW]

I wrote a whole article on this as the technical editor for Ultimate Hummers Magazine. It will be out soon.

The short answer for tonight:

Magnuson warranties their SC for three years. That is for the SC and its components--not for the engine or powertrain. You can buy an aftermarket warranty from Magnuson that will cover up to 3K engine and 2K drivetrain. IF ANY OTHER MODS are done to the truck, the aftermarket warranty is void. That means bigger tires, headers, intake, you name it.

The centrifugal SC's work cooler than a roots style like a Magnuson. They start making boost at 2500-3000 RPM as said before.

A Mag will make full boost by 2500-3000 RPM--that is why you get the back into the seat feeling from the roots charger.

For a high end race car a centrifugal is used often because of the adjustablity of high boost in the upper band and cooler discharge temp per pound of boost. Their blocks are strengthened for this higher boost. A lot of muscle cars use centrifugals because they already have low end power.

For the average H2 driver, the roots style gives you punch off the line and moocho power when passing. All SC's come with risk because you are adding HP to a stock block. That is why GM will not warranty them. Maybe your dealer will by adding 3K to the price and hoping all is well. If you move out of state, forget the promise from the installing dealer.

I will be happy to install a Magnuson on your H2 and give you an engine and powertrain warranty for 9K. That is with an intercooler, ECU programing, fuel pump, etc.--it is all part of the kit and the install. You will have to abide by various paramters based on the SC design but I am confident, you will have no issues. BTW, my normal install price, including the complete unit is around $6000-$6150.

[H2Singh]

Fast H-Town Realtor - thanks much for that little lesson, it helps alot.

Thanks to HGW and Taz for their advise. Just wish you guys were down in So. Fla.

I will check with a lawyer I know about aftermarket warranty disputes with manufacturers, as that is my biggest concern and go from there.

by the way, i push 32 psi in my Evo VIII !, love the rush.

[H2Singh]

Anyone have performance data on the roots vs. centrifugal style sc on an H2?