May Sales Figures

[f5fstop]

May 2006 Sales:
H1 40
H2 1279
H3 3418

May 2005 Sales:
H1 49 (-21.6)
H2 1956 (-37.2)
H3 959 (+242.2; May 2005 was first month for sales on H3).

Year-to-date Sales-2006:
H1 138
H2 6996
H3 20,000

Year-to-date Sales-2005:
H1 153 (-9.8)
H2 9502 (-26.4)
H3 959

Appears Hummer sales might be affected by price of fuel. However, sales
this time of the year start to slow a bit as people focus on purchasing a
new model in a month or two.

[Aubs]

The H2 numbers are really dipping. Too bad the MCE didn't come along.

[OrangeCrush]

2506 less H2 sales this YTD, that's roughly 130 million loss in sales this year... just in H2's.

Looks like someone's retirement plans gonna get cut.

:rolleyes:

Mark

[GeorgeSSSS]

The H2 numbers are really dipping. Too bad the MCE didn't come along.

What's MCE?

[31_bandits]

to temper the falling H2 sales figures, i would offer that GM / AMG only hoped to move about 25,000 H2s per year, and they'll exceed that on avg over the first 4 years of the vehicle.

And its a niche vehicle that won't appeal to everybody, and it hasn't had a major upgrade/change yet, and alot of the first ones ('03s) are probably getting due for a trade-in. will they buy another H2? would they if an H2 "alpha" with substantial upgrades were released?

I don't think fuel cost affects the decision to buy a big SUV for many buyers. A $70k fully loaded lux H2 or a $60-65k Escalade... these aren't lamborghinis, but they are expensive enough to be in the "if money counts, just get something else" category.

just two pennies

[31_bandits]

about mileage and money. i planned on getting 10 with the H2 before i bought it. i'm averaging just under 14 for my time w/the truck (life of truck minus test drives and idling in the dealer lot, etc.). and 14.8 on my last 4 tanks (lots of highway miles in that, no offroading (which sends mileage into the seventh level of course)). i don't know why my mileage is better than some other drivers. perhaps because i never tow, or because most of the roads i drive aren't 70+, but 65mph highways. or maybe its a fluke. who cares.

but i REALLY ENJOY getting almost 15mpg, not because of the $$$ (the diff between 10 and 15 mpg isn't squat in light of the cost of the truck w/options + bling and all)

i really enjoy it because it pisses off my neighbor, who's a bit enviro-nazi-ish. he asks about the mileage, and i say "15". and he gets openly angry about it. like he'd be happier if i got 8. The guy even came over to look at the 'puter readout on the dash because he thought i was lieing about it. and then he really got pissed.

which only serves to further my theory that most "cause" oriented people aren't cause oriented at all, they just want a place to belong.

[Agriv8r]

the first quarter this year was our best ever, and now we are pace to beat that. Local news channel interviewed a couple of us and a few customers, general consensus was that HUMMER was the car I wanted and the car I bought. The gas prices were not even a consideration.:)

[NJ H2]

Sales are dipping because the World is just running low of cool people to buy HUMMERS! :cool: :D

[HummerNewbie]

Sales are dipping because the World is just running low of cool people to buy HUMMERS! :cool: :D

So does this mean we should all go out and buy a second or third? Sounds like a good plan to me :D

[dochummer]

I agree :)

[HummBob]

In all fairness to the H2 and in no way a dig at H3 owners, I think alot of POTENTIAL H2 owners went with the H3 out of price considerations. I know I see 15 H3's a day here and POSSIBBLY 1 or 2 H2's:)

I believe if there wasn't an H3, the H2 sales would be WAAY up. I guess it all depends on how much on a mark up GM has on the trucks. They might actually be making more $$$ profit wise on the H3's:confused:

[HummerNewbie]

In all fairness to the H2 and in no way a dig at H3 owners, I think alot of POTENTIAL H2 owners went with the H3 out of price considerations. I know I see 15 H3's a day here and POSSIBBLY 1 or 2 H2's:)

I believe if there wasn't an H3, the H2 sales would be WAAY up. I guess it all depends on how much on a mark up GM has on the trucks. They might actually be making more $$$ profit wise on the H3's:confused:

I certainly don't take your comment as a shot as the H3 but it is different around here. I still see at least 3 H2s for ever H3. That will change over time just because of the price point giving the H3 such a larger market. I know at my dealership they had more people who had planned on getting an H3 but ended up getting an H2 instead than the other way around. Granted most of those were used H2s so they don't show up on the sales figures listed above. I really don't think the H3 is taking much if any sales away from new H2s. I really think it is a matter of they have been out for 3 years now and just don't move as fast as when they were the hot new thing. Give it a year or so and I think the sales numbers will start going back up some as people start trading in their '03s on new ones. As I saw someone mention in a thread the past day or so, they are still surpassing the sales figures they originally hoped they would get with the H2. Just my 2 cents on it.

[31_bandits]

In all fairness to the H2 and in no way a dig at H3 owners, I think alot of POTENTIAL H2 owners went with the H3 out of price considerations. I know I see 15 H3's a day here and POSSIBBLY 1 or 2 H2's:)

I believe if there wasn't an H3, the H2 sales would be WAAY up. I guess it all depends on how much on a mark up GM has on the trucks. They might actually be making more $$$ profit wise on the H3's:confused:

its the same in my area. not 15 H3s per H2, but at least 5. And they sell at a rate of ~10-20 times as many per month, depending on the month, according to the local dealer.

But thats probably normal in any case.

in may they sold 4100 Escalades and 13,100 Tahoes, and (i could be wrong) i don't think the comparably equipped price-difference is as much as an H2 -vs- H3. that's 3.3 times as many at a lower price point.

they sold 1456 H2s in May of '06 and 3952 H3s, or about 2.5 times. so the H2 sales look pretty fair in that light. and 1456/month = ~17-18,000/year = probably not that far off of GMs expectations for a vehicle they thought they could sell 25,000/yr of initially

just some thoughts

[31_bandits]

source for trhose figures, which differ a bit from those in the original post, was

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/LSECWS/IFSPages/MarketNewsPopup.aspx?id=1211851&source=RNS

it was a may report for APRIL sales, i made a mistake in my post above.

[MovinH2]

I agree :)

Me too. :D

[f5fstop]

source for trhose figures, which differ a bit from those in the original post, was

http://www.londonstockexchange.com/LSECWS/IFSPages/MarketNewsPopup.aspx?id=1211851&source=RNS

it was a may report for APRIL sales, i made a mistake in my post above.

My figures come directly from the GM Newsline that is sent to employees and newspapers the first day of each month.:D

[31_bandits]

My figures come directly from the GM Newsline that is sent to employees and newspapers the first day of each month.:D

lol

that's definitely a good source

[Aubs]

What's MCE?

Mid Cycle Enhancement. It was going to revamp the interior and make slight exterior changes... From what I understood.


I think that the new CPO program might be skewing these figures a bit. You can get some awesome used H2's and H3's now with like 5,000 miles and a 6 year/100K mile warranty. I mean, I'd take the very lightly used vehicle because that is quite a deal! Just look at what Lynch has got going on their used H2's and H3's.

[Alan06SUT]

If the h2 sells over 20K units per year still, how long would you predict they will continue to make it w/o a major revamp?

I bet they will make them until they cant sell 15K or more per year.

What do you think?

[DTHVLY]

The drop in Hummer sales is probably due in part to the strong sales of the Toyota FJC. The FJ out sold the H1, H2, and H3 combined for the second month in a row.

April 2006 sales:
Hummer - 5413
Toyota FJ - 5643

May 2006 sales:
Hummer - 4737
Toyota FJ - 6670

Toyota FJ Cruiser trumps Hummer in sales (http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/05/03/toyota-fj-cruiser-trumps-hummer-in-sales/)

[The Green Lantern]

The drop in Hummer sales is probably due in part to the strong sales of the Toyota FJC. The FJ out sold the H1, H2, and H3 combined for the second month in a row.

April 2006 sales:
Hummer - 5413
Toyota FJ - 5643

May 2006 sales:
Hummer - 4737
Toyota FJ - 6670

Toyota FJ Cruiser trumps Hummer in sales (http://www.leftlanenews.com/2006/05/03/toyota-fj-cruiser-trumps-hummer-in-sales/)



So watch out, they're multiplying like Rabbits!!

[DTHVLY]

You got to admit those are unbelievably good sales numbers with no TV advertising. The only advertising for the FJ has been to the 4x4 community in off-road magazines and at FJ Trail Team events.

Toyota Targets Enthusiasts in Marketing Campaign for 2007 FJ Cruiser
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107909#3 (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107909#3)

"We will do no TV advertising," said James Farley, Toyota Division vice president of marketing. "We will only focus on the enthusiast."

[31_bandits]

If the h2 sells over 20K units per year still, how long would you predict they will continue to make it w/o a major revamp?

I bet they will make them until they cant sell 15K or more per year.

What do you think?

or perhaps even lower numbers.

in the book "hummer H2" by lamm/delorenzo it states that the AM General plant where H2s are made breaks even at about 3000 units per year.

various speculation estimates the H2 to be a very profitable vehicle, perhaps as high as $18k per unit, so... so i would think they would continue to make the vehicle at even lower levels than 15000

[HummerNewbie]

You got to admit those are unbelievably good sales numbers with no TV advertising. The only advertising for the FJ has been to the 4x4 community in off-road magazines and at FJ Trail Team events.

Toyota Targets Enthusiasts in Marketing Campaign for 2007 FJ Cruiser
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107909#3 (http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=107909#3)

"We will do no TV advertising," said James Farley, Toyota Division vice president of marketing. "We will only focus on the enthusiast."

Right now it is a hot vehicle with a lot of hype around it, those figures will drop. Don't recall what the figures were, but the H3s were flying off the lot in the beginning too. As far as not advertising, that is BS. I see TV ads pretty much every day of the week with the FJ. They may not be putting out ads that are specific to the FJ but they are definitely advertising it on TV. I also wonder what Toyota expects the annual sales to be. I know the H3 was selling far higher numbers in '05 than they expected. I believe they hit their expect '06 model sales figure in 4 - 5 months of its release but I could be off there.

[usetosellhummer]

Is the FJ getting the leaf licker blessing or just the low dough fact?

[HummerNewbie]

Is the FJ getting the leaf licker blessing or just the low dough fact?

Probably both. Just the fact that it is a Japanese vehicle will get the leaf lickers behind it :rolleyes:

[DTHVLY]

Right now it is a hot vehicle with a lot of hype around it, those figures will drop. Don't recall what the figures were, but the H3s were flying off the lot in the beginning too. As far as not advertising, that is BS. I see TV ads pretty much every day of the week with the FJ. They may not be putting out ads that are specific to the FJ but they are definitely advertising it on TV. I also wonder what Toyota expects the annual sales to be. I know the H3 was selling far higher numbers in '05 than they expected. I believe they hit their expect '06 model sales figure in 4 - 5 months of its release but I could be off there.

First full month sales:
H3 (June 2005) ? 3841
FJ (April 2006) ? 5643

Second full month sales:
H3 (July 2005) - 4664
FJ (May 2006) - 6670

The FJ has outsold the H3 by 3800 in the first two months of both vehicles release.

[31_bandits]

First full month sales:
H3 (June 2005) ? 3841
FJ (April 2006) ? 5643

Second full month sales:
H3 (July 2005) - 4664
FJ (May 2006) - 6670

The FJ has outsold the H3 by 3800 in the first two months of both vehicles release.

I think you've just demonstrated that the H3 was, by far, a bigger sales hit than the FJ. Please allow me to clarify:

the base of the FJ is $21k. The base of the H3 is $30k. Sales differences, per your presentation above, were ~45% more sales for the cheaper FJ.

The base price of the Chevyl impala (4 door family car) is $21k. The base price4 of the Caddy CTS is $30k. Sales in May were 23,700 impalas -vs- 4,900 CTS's, or almost 5 times moer sales.

Now, those are perhaps different cars, chevy has more dealers, but...

Tahoe + Tukon = 23,000. Escalades = <5000. price difference is base $57 -vs- base $35. only a bit more of a percentage discrepancy than the FJ and H3.

Throw in that Toyota has far more dealers than hummer. 2x more? 3x more? 5x more? what % of car buyers don't have a hummer within 50 miles? 100 miles?


And all rational and reasonable facts considered, i'd say that the H3 trumps the FJ fairly badly in initial-months sales.

[The Green Lantern]

Good Job Bandits!!!...clap!...clap!...clap!

[HummerNewbie]

Good Job Bandits!!!...clap!...clap!...clap!

X2 and I think you stopped to early on how many more Toyota dealers there are versus Hummer dealers. I am just guessing here but I believe there are at least 6 different (most likely more) Toyota dealers in the Orlando metro area while there is only one Hummer dealer.

Regardless of the dollar amounts I am actually fairly happy to see that more FJs are selling than H3s. I am happy because it is less likely that my H3 will become a dime a dozen vehicle.

[HummerNewbie]

For the hell of it I just went and check. In the state of Florida there are 10 Hummer dealers (very high single state number I'm sure) and there are 58 Toyota dealers. So, in a state with a high number of Hummer dealerships there is still almost 6 times as many Toyota dealers.

[31_bandits]

thanks you guys.

from http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/Dale_Earnhardt_Jr_car2006.jpg

"Toyota, Lexus and Scion cars and trucks are sold at more than 1,700 independent North American dealers (1,400 in the U.S.)"

hummer.com lists 20 in california, 10 in florida, 3 in colorado, 13 in texas. that must be at about 1/4 of the nationals population, no? so lets guess 150-200, or 7-9 times fewer than 'yota.

H3s are cool. but they never wave at me.

:D

[Aubs]

31 bandits, thanks for showing up that yuppie FJ troll. Considering that there are Toyota dealers everywhere, I'd say that the FJ sales are pretty lousy.

[31_bandits]

thanks aubs


side but related: the FJ isn't american (even worse than american is general motors), and it doesn't say hummer, it says 'yota. and 'yota makes prius's, and we all know that people who care drive prius's. so the FJ must be good, and certainly we know we don't want hummers on the road, so lets make some hype about FJ>hummer and get it here and there in newspapers and websites, because we're liberal media, and this is our job. So yes, the FJ is far better than the H3. >roll eyes<

[f5fstop]

The FJ is an interesting vehicle, but not for me, not because it is Japanese, but I think it is downright ugly; especially the interior.
The point of more dealers versus Hummer is a good point. One other point is that when the H3 launched, GM marketing called for 25K a year; roughly 2100 per month. The sales surprised everyone, so production was booted up for the H3 and this was not a problem for the line since Colorado/Canyon weren't doing so hot. Big problem was parts. Suppliers were scheduled per the original estimate, they in turn had to boost production.

In my humble opinion, the big competitor for the H3 is coming next year, in the form of a 4-door Wrangler.

[DTHVLY]

I think you've just demonstrated that the H3 was, by far, a bigger sales hit than the FJ. Please allow me to clarify:

the base of the FJ is $21k. The base of the H3 is $30k. Sales differences, per your presentation above, were ~45% more sales for the cheaper FJ.

The base price of the Chevyl impala (4 door family car) is $21k. The base price4 of the Caddy CTS is $30k. Sales in May were 23,700 impalas -vs- 4,900 CTS's, or almost 5 times moer sales.

Now, those are perhaps different cars, chevy has more dealers, but...

Tahoe + Tukon = 23,000. Escalades = <5000. price difference is base $57 -vs- base $35. only a bit more of a percentage discrepancy than the FJ and H3.

Throw in that Toyota has far more dealers than hummer. 2x more? 3x more? 5x more? what % of car buyers don't have a hummer within 50 miles? 100 miles?


And all rational and reasonable facts considered, i'd say that the H3 trumps the FJ fairly badly in initial-months sales.


Wow, talk about convoluted but your argument is all for not considering that a new FJ is going for an average price of over 30K with some dealerships asking more than 40K. As for dealerships there are only as many as demand will support if there were more demand for the Hummer and if GM weren?t on the verge of bankruptcy maybe there would be more dealerships.

[DTHVLY]

In my humble opinion, the big competitor for the H3 is coming next year, in the form of a 4-door Wrangler.

The aftermarket for the H3 is way too limited for it to ever compete with the Jeep Wrangler. The major competition will be: 2007 Jeep JK vs. 2007 Toyota FJ.

[f5fstop]

I guess you didn't understand my statement, so I'll rephrase. The biggest threat to H3 sales is the new Wrangler; not in my opinion, the FJ. I believe the H3 bit into the Jeep market, so I guess it would be fair.
As to the number of dealers, GM will keep them in the same number. Hummer is a specialty vehicle, always will be. Therefore they will never have an outlet size like Toyota, Jeep, Buick, etc.
What they could do, but it might ruin the brand, is to allow more multiple carline dealers to sell Hummers out of one facility.

[31_bandits]

Wow, talk about convoluted but your argument is all for not considering that a new FJ is going for an average price of over 30K with some dealerships asking more than 40K. As for dealerships there are only as many as demand will support if there were more demand for the Hummer and if GM weren?t on the verge of bankruptcy maybe there would be more dealerships.

:eek:

i sincerely doubt that the average FJ is selling for as much as the average H3.

the average H3 on the nearest lot is ~33-35. the average of the FJs that have left the local 'yota lot is about 10k lower, i.e., selling at MSRP.

as for convoluted, i think my argument was as straight forward as can be. higher $$$ vehicles sell less. and having a dealer near people helps sales. nothing too qwacky there.


and the H3 has alot more ground clearance. if you don't believe me, drop the websites & go measure them yourself.

:)

[31_bandits]

I guess you didn't understand my statement, so I'll rephrase. The biggest threat to H3 sales is the new Wrangler; not in my opinion, the FJ. I believe the H3 bit into the Jeep market, so I guess it would be fair.


i wonder if the new Wrangler will be worth much offroad in stock form? some of the offroading specs aren't that good, and jeep (though not as much as 'yota) tends to over-state their specs anyway. the h3 is underrated for clearance by hummer as far as i can measure.

but for sure we will be able to browse at least 29 jeep forums discussing either

a) how its a sell out
or
b) how its better than any hummer at anything

:eek: :rolleyes: :cool: