Power mods for the I-5

[Wisha Haddan H3]

I've been thinking about ways to improve power on a vehicle, and it seems to boil down to air intake, exhaust output, efficiency of burn, internal friction, and aerodynamics. Decals alone add 20 hp, but that's for another thread :D

Most performance mods try to achieve more power by getting more air and fuel into the combustion chamber. I'm thinking about hi-flow filters, mandrel bent air intakes, superchargers, turbos, throttle body spacers, aftermarket fuel injectors and such.

What have you tried that works? And what do think is a bunch of crap?

[HummBebe]

I think most of it is crap.

A Supercharger or Turbo, won't be much help to an inline 5 that is maxed anyway. Hell only GM could get another 20 hp out of it! :D

You'll just start breaking sh1t;)

[blindzebra]

hhhhhawhattttt!?!?!??

[HummBebe]

I think most of it is crap.

A Supercharger or Turbo, won't be much help to an inline 5 that is maxed anyway. Hell only GM could get another 20 hp out of it! :D

You'll just start breaking sh1t;)

[HummBebe]

My bs way of saying....I have no f'ing idea:confused:

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Yeah, there's a lot of crap out there. I've seen people mod their MAF sensor, PCV valve, throttle body valves, or install home-built s/c's (inline fans), fuel line magnets, modded (out-of-spec) sensors, grounded capacitor plug wires, and lots more wacky stuff.

I'm hoping for some serious input on chipping and airflow mods that could add a little oomph without starting a fire or killing the engine.

You know, like maybe an army surplus rocket motor to mount on the back ;)

[blindzebra]

Talk to pedro at south of the border. He has his own rocket city!:cool:

[HIHUMMER]

Talk to pedro at south of the border. He has his own rocket city!:cool:

LMAO! The Big Sombrero in the SKY!!!:D

[Vandakeg]

I don't know if anyone else has seen or heard of this.. but I just had a customer of mine show me what he had done to his f-350 power-stroke diesel.

Let me start off by saying this guy is crazy.... Anyway, in addition to his power chip (which gave him about 150 more HP), he is running Hydrogen into his air intake. It looked like a freakin' science lab under his hood!

The system was really kind of basic. All he has to do is put water in the system, it then uses some sort of 'crystals' and electricity from the battery to seperate the Hydrogen from the Oxygen in H20, and the hydrogen travels through a tube straight into the air intake. The Hydrogen then combusts with the fuel, adding 20-30% HP.

I pretty much told him he was full of it, and there's no way it's actually doing what he's claiming. He then proceeded to disconnect the 'Hydrogen' hose, and wrapped a zip-lock baggie around it. He turned on his truck, and sure enough the baggie started puffing up w/ cloudy white gas. He then zipped the bag up, set it on the ground, and took a lighter to it.... Sure enough, it blew loud enough to set my car alarm off!

He said they're available for cars too, for about $800... I can't remember the website though.

[Odysseus]

Let me start off by saying this guy is crazy.... Anyway, in addition to his power chip (which gave him about 150 more HP), he is running Hydrogen into his air intake. It looked like a freakin' science lab under his hood!

Also recommend: 3 Layer FIA and SFI certified fire suit, gloves and balaclava. Along with a full in ride fire extinguishing system, ejection seat, and a good lawyer. :p

[Wisha Haddan H3]

I'm hoping for some serious input on chipping and airflow mods that could add a little oomph without starting a fire or killing the engine.

Uh, dude ... remember the part about not starting a fire? :eek:

Dey aint no frikkin way I runnin no fizzin hydogin in my injun. No frikkin way!

[Steve - SanJose]

Nothing proven to make much of a difference so far.

S.

[LittleBear]

Try a JATO Pack. They add alot of bang for the buck. ;) :D

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Now that's more like it :cool:

[Michael1]

I don't know if anyone else has seen or heard of this.. but I just had a customer of mine show me what he had done to his f-350 power-stroke diesel.

Let me start off by saying this guy is crazy.... Anyway, in addition to his power chip (which gave him about 150 more HP), he is running Hydrogen into his air intake. It looked like a freakin' science lab under his hood!

The system was really kind of basic. All he has to do is put water in the system, it then uses some sort of 'crystals' and electricity from the battery to seperate the Hydrogen from the Oxygen in H20, and the hydrogen travels through a tube straight into the air intake. The Hydrogen then combusts with the fuel, adding 20-30% HP.

I pretty much told him he was full of it, and there's no way it's actually doing what he's claiming. He then proceeded to disconnect the 'Hydrogen' hose, and wrapped a zip-lock baggie around it. He turned on his truck, and sure enough the baggie started puffing up w/ cloudy white gas. He then zipped the bag up, set it on the ground, and took a lighter to it.... Sure enough, it blew loud enough to set my car alarm off!

He said they're available for cars too, for about $800... I can't remember the website though.

It's called electrolysis, and there is no way he is producing enough hydrogen to make a difference unless he has a nuclear reactor in the bed of the truck.

Most aftermarket power boosters are garbage with dyno results which aren't corrected for temperature and pressure, and aren't controlled for variables.

Michael

[marin8703]

hey sorry to revive this thread but i was kinds curious.

Can someone with the proper technical knowhow tell me if the h3's engine and trans, the whole powertrain can handle the addition of a supercharger. Is stuff gona break or explode for sure or most likely not?

Im just curious because i was reading the h3t concept specs and it had a supercharged I5. So im thinking maybe they thought about people wanting to supercharge the I5 and made the whole system tough enough.

What do you think?

Thanks!:)

[timgco]

The best and only way to improve the acceleration and mpg is to hook the H3 to the back of an H2, put the H3 in nuetral, and relax. It works great.


Some have had issues with the K&N kits, some dealers have stated it will ruin the MAF sensor and void warranty, others have had good luck, B&B exhaust will help very little also. Other than that, there's not much out there to really make a huge difference. SC's and Turbos will give you issues and cause more issues off road.

This truck will never be like your Z was.:rolleyes: But it will crawl like a mult when you shift into 4LO.

[marin8703]

well i doubt that will really help much, since the h2's spedo shows only 10mph more, and its 0-60 rating is 1 second faster, correction .6 of a second faster. But anyway i am not concerned with speed or power or anything like that.

I was just being curious if anyone knows how tough the I5 is and if it was the same one that was since the initial planning, from when it was a concept vehicle, or if it was heavily modifed to fit production costs? The concept one on the h3t is with a supercharger.

If anyone knows from experience or technical specs, would stuff break on the h3 definately or not?

Thanks for your responses!:)

[usetosellhummer]

ahhh come on michael j Fox had the Mr. Fusion in the deloren... how about ptting your old garbage in the airbox to enrigh the flow with meth

[HummBebe]

Like I said...GM got 20 more HP. Then they ditched it.....no mas Vortec 3500:D

No sense in getting the nitty gritty, it's not worth the time.

fini

[f5fstop]

Ah, but GM got the 20+ HP from boring the engine out to a 3700. The engine is capable of obtaining quite a bit more HP with a turbo or SC, but unless GM offers it, it would void the powertrain warranty.
Later engines, or those with the new cylinder head, should be able to take the extra HP, as long as you keep it low, around 270. This is not from any GM official information, but from what I know someone did with this engine.:D

[HummBebe]

The best and only way to improve the acceleration and mpg is to hook the H3 to the back of an H2, put the H3 in nuetral, and relax. It works great.


Been there, done that, got the t-shirt:D

[HummBebe]

So if that is all they did, was bore, we will now have 10.5:1, 11:1??

Will they now have to step up in octane rating, or will the computer take care of it?

[marin8703]

Thanks for the replies everyone!:)

[f5fstop]

So if that is all they did, was bore, we will now have 10.5:1, 11:1??

Will they now have to step up in octane rating, or will the computer take care of it?

Compression ratio is 10.3:1. so it went up .3 (current has a 10:1). You will not have to burn premium fuel, the computer is programmed to compensate.

[Michael1]

The limiting variable for drivetrain life is torque, not horsepower. Keeping that in mind, the torque drops off from the peak about 20%, so that is your opportunity. You can forget about all those air filters, and exhaust systems. You won't get 20% with those. I'd suggest you look into what people do who race this engine. The first place I would look for more power would be porting the heads, and putting in bigger valves. Then I would be looking at the intake manifold. I would shorten the runners for tuning at a higher RPM, and port it for better airflow. The other place would be the exhaust manifold, and replacing it with tubular headers. This is a touchy area though, because there is a close couple catalytic converter.

Michael

[ChevyHighPerformance]

You can forget about all those air filters, and exhaust systems. You won't get 20% with those.

Michael

I bet you can get to 265 BHP with the correct air box/intake, exhaust, and tuning.

[PARAGON]

The limiting variable for drivetrain life is torque, not horsepower.Actually, that's not really true. Since HP is the measure of torque over time, HP is just as limiting a factor as torque.

You can't have HP without torque.

Now suggesting one to copy what race engine builders do, is not a very good idea either. They get to tear their engines down after relatively few miles and are pushing the engine to the limits during most of it's running life.

You simply are not going to be able to do much with this engine to justify a tear down, port, polish and rebuild just to gain a few HP on the high end.

[Steve - SanJose]

265 hp not likely with aftermarket stuff (excluding turbo, s/c). GM did it the right way to the I5 in 2007, and the power increase is modest.

All Hummers (H1, H2, H3) are slow street machines as usual, because their strength is offroad ability.

S.

[HummBebe]

Very few people would actually "race" with an inline 5.

Rod Hall, maybe.

If you have the shop, tools, talent, ability and machinery to do something you all are desribing, why not just put a 350 in it??

It makes just as much sense:rolleyes:

Want in one hand, crap in the other, see which one fills up faster:rolleyes:

Leave the I-5 alone. It is what it is.

[Steve - SanJose]

Different vehicles for different purposes for sure, many of us have fast sports cars in the garage for fast road work.

S.

[ChevyHighPerformance]

265 hp not likely with aftermarket stuff (excluding turbo, s/c).

S.

I've already seen the before and after dyno plots.

[PARAGON]

265 hp not likely with aftermarket stuff (excluding turbo, s/c).

S.

So now it's:
I've already seen the before and after dyno plots.

after previously saying a few minutes earlier:
I bet you can get to 265 BHP with the correct air box/intake, exhaust, and tuning.

[PARAGON]

:rolleyes:

[ChevyHighPerformance]

So now it's:


after previously saying a few minutes earlier:

Nothing like a sure bet.

[Steve - SanJose]

:) :rolleyes: . Someday I'll get to drive one too.

S.

[PARAGON]

Nothing like a sure bet.RIIIIGGGHHT!:confused:

[ChevyHighPerformance]

Just as an example, here is someone else's dyno plot from another website for an H3 with an airbox, exhaust, and tuning. This after these mods the BHP is about 253 hp. From what I was told, this is without port matching of the CAI, stock throttle body, no thermal shields, and no cold air ducting. Also, this might have been with the stock resonator.

[PARAGON]

Just as an example, here is someone else's dyno plot from another website for an H3 with an airbox, exhaust, and tuning. This after these mods the BHP is about 253 hp. From what I was told, this is without port matching of the CAI, stock throttle body, no thermal shields, and no cold air ducting. Also, this might have been with the stock resonator.so, the extra 100HP is arbitrary?

What I see is a 12-13 point increase in HP which is less than a 10% increase at the rear wheels even.

[HummBebe]

100 pts both HP and Torque, yes?

It reads 153 not 253? I'm confused:confused:

[Michael1]

Actually, that's not really true. Since HP is the measure of torque over time, HP is just as limiting a factor as torque.


HP is not the limiting factor, unless you are talking about heat rejection due to internal friction, or a design limit for maximum internal rotating speed.

Most engines do not produce their peak torque at maximum RPM as you are implying here.

Check the manufacturers specifications for drivetrain components. They do not list horsepower. They do list torque.

Michael

[Michael1]

I bet you can get to 265 BHP with the correct air box/intake, exhaust, and tuning.

Over 20%???!!! Not any SAE certified test, with all emission equipment functioning and within spec. Maybe on some bogus inertial dyno.

Michael

[PARAGON]

HP is not the limiting factor, unless you are talking about heat rejection due to internal friction, or a design limit for maximum internal rotating speed.

Most engines do not produce their peak torque at maximum RPM as you are implying here.

Check the manufacturers specifications for drivetrain components. They do not list horsepower. They do list torque.

MichaelCome on...... do you even know what HP is? HP IS a measure of torque. :rolleyes:

[PARAGON]

Over 20%???!!! Not any SAE certified test, with all emission equipment functioning and within spec. Maybe on some bogus inertial dyno.

MichaelMikey, I think you are quickly losing some of the information you learned during the school year in your high school shop class.

[Michael1]

Come on...... do you even know what HP is? HP IS a measure of torque. :rolleyes:

No, it is not. It is a measure of power.

I bet you are one of these uninformed people who thinks the faster car always has an engine which produces more torque.

Michael

[usetosellhummer]

brain trust going at it! I like it!

[Steve - SanJose]

Mostly useless info, still no proof of significant power increase to the I5 without s/c or turbos.

S.

[PARAGON]

brain trust going at it! I like it!stupid speaks

[PARAGON]

No, it is not. It is a measure of power.Where did you hear that? From a horse? :rolleyes:

Ok, sport. Here's a little lesson for ya'

Torque is tangential force TIMES the distance from the fulcrum or a measure of force at a single moment in time. HorsePower can be defined as work (force over distance) per unit time.

Applying 1 lb of force 1 ft from the fulcrum for a complete revolution will lead to;
W = F*2*Pi*r = 1 lb * 2*Pi * 1 ft = 2*Pi lb-ft = 6.283 lb-ft

If it takes one minute to complete this revolution, then the power is;
P = W / time = 6.283 lb-ft/min
1 HP is defined as 550 lb-ft/s or 33,000 lb-ft/min

Therefore, applying 1 lb-ft of torque in one minute (1 rpm) = [6.283 lb-ft/min] / [33,000 lb-ft/min] = 1/5252 of 1 hp.
From this you can then calculate the number of hp from any given torque and rpm:
HP = Torque * RPM/5252 or
HP = Torque measured over time and distance.

Therefore, HP is a measurement of Torque over a given time and given distance.

[Michael1]

Where did you hear that? From a horse? :rolleyes:

Ok, sport. Here's a little lesson for ya'

Torque is tangential force TIMES the distance from the fulcrum or a measure of force at a single moment in time. HorsePower can be defined as work (force over distance) per unit time.

Applying 1 lb of force 1 ft from the fulcrum for a complete revolution will lead to;
W = F*2*Pi*r = 1 lb * 2*Pi * 1 ft = 2*Pi lb-ft = 6.283 lb-ft

If it takes one minute to complete this revolution, then the power is;
P = W / time = 6.283 lb-ft/min
1 HP is defined as 550 lb-ft/s or 33,000 lb-ft/min

Therefore, applying 1 lb-ft of torque in one minute (1 rpm) = [6.283 lb-ft/min] / [33,000 lb-ft/min] = 1/5252 of 1 hp.
From this you can then calculate the number of hp from any given torque and rpm:
HP = Torque * RPM/5252 or
HP = Torque measured over time and distance.

Therefore, HP is a measurement of Torque over a given time and given distance.

First off, I don't need your lesson.

Second, that's not what you said. You said it was a "measure of torque", not a "measure of torque over time". You've just proven my point that horsepower is a measure of power, not a torque measurement. If horsepower was purely a measure of torque, then how is it that 1 horsepower = 745 watts? Just because torque is one variable in the equation of horsepower, doesn't mean it's a measure of torque. That's like saying wattage is a measure of volts.

Michael

[PARAGON]

First off, I don't need your lesson.

Second, that's not what you said. You said it was a "measure of torque", not a "measure of torque over time". You've just proven my point that horsepower is a measure of power, not a torque measurement. If horsepower was purely a measure of torque, then how is it that 1 horsepower = 745 watts? Just because torque is one variable in the equation of horsepower, doesn't mean it's a measure of torque. That's like saying wattage is a measure of volts.

MichaelOk,

do you attempt to think with that thing you call a brain or does it just occupy space. Go the fck back up and look at my posts. My first post in this thread where you have spat your ignorance contained this little gem "Since HP is the measure of torque over time, HP is just as limiting a factor as torque. You can't have HP without torque."

To which you disagreed.

Care to try some more?

[f5fstop]

Just as an example, here is someone else's dyno plot from another website for an H3 with an airbox, exhaust, and tuning. This after these mods the BHP is about 253 hp. From what I was told, this is without port matching of the CAI, stock throttle body, no thermal shields, and no cold air ducting. Also, this might have been with the stock resonator.

Hope that is not from the southwest and some "GM engineer." Just a note, I can take any dyno graph and change it the way I like it. Not saying this is what happened, but, if GM could raise the HP (safely) with a tune, and a new cat back system and airbox, they would have already done it. I say safely, but I also mean legally.

[ChevyHighPerformance]

so, the extra 100HP is arbitrary?

What I see is a 12-13 point increase in HP which is less than a 10% increase at the rear wheels even.

I see about 3.5 block increase for which each block is 5 hp about a 17 - 18 HP gain at the wheels. This is the power measured at the wheels. The drivetrain has an efficiency. The power loss is mostly converted to heat and absorbed in inertial loads. The drivetrain loss is dependent on the drivetrain loading. On a dynojet, the stock peak power might be 165 hp at the wheels.

[PARAGON]

Hope that is not from the southwest and some "GM engineer." Just a note, I can take any dyno graph and change it the way I like it. Not saying this is what happened, but, if GM could raise the HP (safely) with a tune, and a new cat back system and airbox, they would have already done it. I say safely, but I also mean legally.I don't think it was raised by that much.

There is no 100HP difference between BHP and rear wheel HP, which is what is being shown. Stock listed BHP for the H3 is what? somewhere around 220BHP and the stock rear wheel HP listed on the graph is about 138 HP. The coefficient for friction doesn't increase as the HP increases so one could naturally assume a 80HP difference. 153 + 80 = 233 or a net gain of about 13 BHP or somewhere around a 6% gain.

[PARAGON]

I'll give you a 20 BHP gain and it's still less than 10%. Driveline has nothing to do with this since you are looking at the actual before/after.

Again, whatever driveline loss occurs at the stock level will occur at the higher level, you don't arbitrarily just throw in some additional ponies.:rolleyes:

[PARAGON]

Over 20%???!!! Not any SAE certified test, with all emission equipment functioning and within spec. Maybe on some bogus inertial dyno.

Michaeldummy, the new SAE tests have shown to INCREASE stated BHP on many domestic engines.

[ChevyHighPerformance]

Hope that is not from the southwest and some "GM engineer." Just a note, I can take any dyno graph and change it the way I like it. Not saying this is what happened, but, if GM could raise the HP (safely) with a tune, and a new cat back system and airbox, they would have already done it. I say safely, but I also mean legally.

This is not my dyno graph. This is from another post from another H3 forum. I was just providing it as an example. You can look in Colordao/Canyon forums for other dynos. Here is a dyno on a dynojet by K&N for an H3. In stock form the drivetrain efficiency (on this inertial dyno) was 75% or 25% loss (0.25 * 220 HP = 55 hp loss)

http://www.kandn.com/dynocharts/77-3044.pdf

I'm not surprised by the 65% drivetrain efficiency with dyno that properly loads down a 4WD vehicle like a Mustang dyno. Here is another dyno from K&N for a colorado same 3.5 L engine but 2WD and the stock HP is 180 hp (compare to 165 hp for the H3).

http://www.kandn.com/dynocharts/63-1095.pdf

The difference peak HP is due to the drivetrain efficiency ~82% for the 2WD colorado and 75% for the H3 on an inertial dyno.

GM has to tune for the masses. Because of production tolerances, different environments, different local fuel, etc. GM can't tune to the performance edge. GM uses a consevative ~11.9:1 A/F at WOT when most tuners bump that to 12.8:1 or so for more power.

GM has noise goals to meet. In the past, GM would ship a Z28 to SLP to have and intake, exhaust, etc. put on and SLP would not have to meet the noise requirements that GM had to meet. A new H3 airbox that eliminates the resonator will have more noise as well as a free flowing exhaust. For the new Z06, GM designed a cutout, so when you went to WOT (which does not have noise requirements) the cutouts opened for more power and substanially more noise.

[ChevyHighPerformance]

I'll give you a 20 BHP gain and it's still less than 10%. Driveline has nothing to do with this since you are looking at the actual before/after.

Again, whatever driveline loss occurs at the stock level will occur at the higher level, you don't arbitrarily just throw in some additional ponies.:rolleyes:

The drivetrain has an efficiency (percentage loss) not a fixed HP loss.

[ChevyHighPerformance]

dummy, the new SAE tests have shown to INCREASE stated BHP on many domestic engines.

It depends on the manufacturer. Some rating stayed the same, some went up (some GM) , and some went down (some Toyotas). In fact, GM underrates their engines so that their expected worst engine meets the advertised ratings.

[ChevyHighPerformance]

My reply was toward power mods for the H3 and having the ability to gain over 20% with bolt-ons. Based on personally observed data, I said that you can. I presented someone elses dyno graph that shows a 15% increase with only an airbox, exhaust, and tuning.

Here are bolt-on mods that if all done, that will increase the HP by more than 20%

1) Well designed cold air intake
2) Ported throttle body
3) Under drive pulley
4) Electric fan(s)
5) Header
6) High flow cat and piping that doesn have the two crush locations like the stock piece
7) Cat back exhaust
8) Custom PCM tuning
9) Electric water pump

If properly done, there will be no change in emissions, more HP, and better fuel econony.

If you have a different opinion that's fine.

[PARAGON]

The drivetrain has an efficiency (percentage loss) not a fixed HP loss.AND????? Do you think you can effectively calculate the loss, given the load, tire, temperature of the fluids. Dyno the BHP and then stick it in the truck and measure the net HP and that's your number. Using a linear curve as you are suggesting will cause you to reach a point of diminishing returns which will flaw your data. That's to say, the driveline would have to be seizing.

Just as it's not a fixed HP loss, it's not a fixed percentage nor does it weigh in on this situation. The effect is negligible considering the fact that you contended that 265BHP was achievable and 253BHP was achieved, when neither has been shown to be true.

[PARAGON]

It depends on the manufacturer. Some rating stayed the same, some went up (some GM) , and some went down (some Toyotas). In fact, GM underrates their engines so that their expected worst engine meets the advertised ratings.
dummy, the new SAE tests have shown to INCREASE stated BHP on many domestic engines.:confused:

[f5fstop]

Chevyhghperf, you really don't have to tell me what GM does to meet the masses when producing vehicles. In regard to the programming, yesterday, the head of programmer was over and we discussed the H3 program, as well as a few others. GM has done a high performance tune for the engine (police/Border patrol), and not anywhere near what was shown on the dyno. In fact, we discussed this exact dyno chart, since he spotted it on the "other forum."
I guess we can all discuss this until hell freezes over, but I still have a problem with that dyno chart, and so did he.
You guys have fun...

[Steve - SanJose]

If I want the marginal 20hp increase, I'll buy the 2007 with a full warranty. Right now my 2006 H3 is performing exactly as expected.

S.

[ChevyHighPerformance]

AND????? Do you think you can effectively calculate the loss, given the load, tire, temperature of the fluids. Dyno the BHP and then stick it in the truck and measure the net HP and that's your number. Using a linear curve as you are suggesting will cause you to reach a point of diminishing returns which will flaw your data. That's to say, the driveline would have to be seizing.

Just as it's not a fixed HP loss, it's not a fixed percentage nor does it weigh in on this situation. The effect is negligible considering the fact that you contended that 265BHP was achievable and 253BHP was achieved, when neither has been shown to be true.

I'm not following your logic. There are fixed, linear, and non-linear losses in the drivetrain. The % efficiency is just a close approximation.

[ChevyHighPerformance]

Chevyhghperf, you really don't have to tell me what GM does to meet the masses when producing vehicles. In regard to the programming, yesterday, the head of programmer was over and we discussed the H3 program, as well as a few others. GM has done a high performance tune for the engine (police/Border patrol), and not anywhere near what was shown on the dyno. In fact, we discussed this exact dyno chart, since he spotted it on the "other forum."
I guess we can all discuss this until hell freezes over, but I still have a problem with that dyno chart, and so did he.
You guys have fun...

F5,

The entire reply wasn't really directed you. So, I appologize. I know who you work for.

Is he more comfortable with the K&N dyno? Is it the amount of loss this dyno showed?

[PARAGON]

I'm not following your logic. There are fixed, linear, and non-linear losses in the drivetrain. The % efficiency is just a close approximation.You just followed it.:confused: :rolleyes:

[PARAGON]

F5,

The entire reply wasn't really directed you. So, I appologize. I know who you work for.

Is he more comfortable with the K&N dyno? Is it the amount of loss this dyno showed?Damn, you are just getting dumber and dumb.

[hummer_metal]

Agriv8r told me I was nuts if I posted what I added to my H3 to give it a little more power and increased gas mileage.

I'm not sure about spamming this site.



He kinda chuckled at me and told me about this forum. Now I have only had it a couple days, and not sure if it works as I have had the same tank of gas in.

However, say I am tricking myself to believe that it is working is fair enough. But I believe that I am getting 3 maybe 4 miles more to a gallon. HP, well I am not so sure about this yet.

[hummer_metal]

ebay item number 330004099308

[ChevyHighPerformance]

Damn, you are just getting dumber and dumb.

"The coefficient for friction doesn't increase as the HP increases so one could naturally assume a 80HP difference. 153 + 80 = 233 or a net gain of about 13 BHP or somewhere around a 6% gain."

Here you used a absolute drivetrain loss - 80 hp.

"Just as it's not a fixed HP loss"

Here you technically contradicted yourself.

The chassis dyno showed a gain of about 17-18 hp. Based on your logic the BHP only increased by 13 hp. What you have effective stated is that the drivetrain loss decreased with increased power throughput. You now you have said all three possibilities regarding drivetrain loss:

1) The loss is fixed
2) The loss increases with hp thoughput
3) The loss decreases with hp throughput

This is the failed logic that I don't understand.

Even though the drivetrain has constant, linear, and non-linear loss parts for these hp changes its fair and reasonable to linearize the loss as an efficiency. If the chassis dyno hp tripled then using a linear % drivetrain loss may not be reasonable.

[PARAGON]

"The coefficient for friction doesn't increase as the HP increases so one could naturally assume a 80HP difference. 153 + 80 = 233 or a net gain of about 13 BHP or somewhere around a 6% gain."

Here you used a absolute drivetrain loss - 80 hp.

"Just as it's not a fixed HP loss"

Here you technically contradicted yourself.

The chassis dyno showed a gain of about 17-18 hp. Based on your logic the BHP only increased by 13 hp. What you have effective stated is that the drivetrain loss decreased with increased power throughput. You now you have said all three possibilities regarding drivetrain loss:

1) The loss is fixed
2) The loss increases with hp thoughput
3) The loss decreases with hp throughput

This is the failed logic that I don't understand.

Even though the drivetrain has constant, linear, and non-linear loss parts for these hp changes its fair and reasonable to linearize the loss as an efficiency. If the chassis dyno hp tripled then using a linear % drivetrain loss may not be reasonable.read some things literally and then take your own license on others?

I believe it to be quite clear...... look up the definition of coefficient.

It is quite logical to assume that stated engine dyno'd BHP is X and that someone runs a dyno on a chassis dyno and shows a difference of -80HP, that one would use the number 80. Never did I say absolute, that's where you took your liberty. I'm not the one pitching the BS here.

And finally, you are simply lying. I, in no way, suggested that drivetrain loss decreased with the increase in HP. I said that the chart showed a net gain of 13 HP. You chose 17-18 HP by pulling it out of your ass as there is no way to assume a 5 point difference by that chart.

Now, try and work your way into any fcking credibility on this site now, turd. You want to argue points, fine.

You don't get the chance to take your liberties with what others have stated. Move on, you're done here.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Agriv8r told me I was nuts if I posted what I added to my H3 to give it a little more power and increased gas mileage.

I'm not sure about spamming this site.



He kinda chuckled at me and told me about this forum. Now I have only had it a couple days, and not sure if it works as I have had the same tank of gas in.

However, say I am tricking myself to believe that it is working is fair enough. But I believe that I am getting 3 maybe 4 miles more to a gallon. HP, well I am not so sure about this yet.

Popular Mechanics did some testing and didn't think much of that kind of device. I'm pretty skeptical myself. http://www.popularmechanics.com/automotive/new_cars_trucks/1802932.html?page=1&c=y

[PARAGON]

Agriv8r told me I was nuts if I posted what I added to my H3 to give it a little more power and increased gas mileage.

I'm not sure about spamming this site.



He kinda chuckled at me and told me about this forum. Now I have only had it a couple days, and not sure if it works as I have had the same tank of gas in.

However, say I am tricking myself to believe that it is working is fair enough. But I believe that I am getting 3 maybe 4 miles more to a gallon. HP, well I am not so sure about this yet.you would have better chance if you stuck one of this in your H3

http://www.themetalpeddler.com/images/copper-ball-finial-1.jpg




Do you use one of these for recoveries?;)

http://themetalpeddler.com/images/rain-chains/rain-chains-010.jpg

Cool stuff!

[ChevyHighPerformance]

read some things literally and then take your own license on others?

I believe it to be quite clear...... look up the definition of coefficient.

It is quite logical to assume that stated engine dyno'd BHP is X and that someone runs a dyno on a chassis dyno and shows a difference of -80HP, that one would use the number 80. Never did I say absolute, that's where you took your liberty. I'm not the one pitching the BS here.

And finally, you are simply lying. I, in no way, suggested that drivetrain loss decreased with the increase in HP. I said that the chart showed a net gain of 13 HP. You chose 17-18 HP by pulling it out of your ass as there is no way to assume a 5 point difference by that chart.

Now, try and work your way into any fcking credibility on this site now, turd. You want to argue points, fine.

You don't get the chance to take your liberties with what others have stated. Move on, you're done here.

"There is no 100HP difference between BHP and rear wheel HP, which is what is being shown. Stock listed BHP for the H3 is what? somewhere around 220BHP and the stock rear wheel HP listed on the graph is about 138 HP. The coefficient for friction doesn't increase as the HP increases so one could naturally assume a 80HP difference. 153 + 80 = 233 or a net gain of about 13 BHP or somewhere around a 6% gain."

If the coefficient of friction doesn't increase as the HP increases (based on your quote) then the HP doesn't decrease as the HP decreases. Here you used a fixed HP loss value of 80 HP.

"Never did I say absolute, that's where you took your liberty. I'm not the one pitching the BS here."

80 is an absolute number.

You also said that the stock rear wheel hp from the graph is 138. First, understand that the H3 is a 4WD vehicle as has to be dynoed on an all-wheel drive dyno. This isn't rear wheel hp it is wheel hp. Then you said the new new HP curve has a peak hp of 153. Isn't 153 - 138 = 15 hp??? These are your numbers. Where's the net 13 BHP coming from that you calculated??? Where's the 13 HP that you keep referring too???

"There is no 100HP difference between BHP and rear wheel HP"

Correct. According to your numbers 220 - 138 = 82 hp. Then you are using 80 as a hp difference.

All I did was take the numbers that you posted and consolidated them. You biased each number in your favor. Now, who is taking the liberties.

Stick to your happy meal word search, and help Ronald find the hamburgerler. We're all counting on you!

When you reply, as you know you will, let's try not using the playground words like: turd, dummy, dumber, dumb, etc. as you seem to refer to everyone as.

[PARAGON]

"There is no 100HP difference between BHP and rear wheel HP, which is what is being shown. Stock listed BHP for the H3 is what? somewhere around 220BHP and the stock rear wheel HP listed on the graph is about 138 HP. The coefficient for friction doesn't increase as the HP increases so one could naturally assume a 80HP difference. 153 + 80 = 233 or a net gain of about 13 BHP if GM says 220 then 233-220=13 or somewhere around a 6% gain."

If the coefficient of friction doesn't increase as the HP increases (based on your quote) then the HP doesn't decrease as the HP decreases. Here you used a fixed HP loss value of 80 HP. Did you look up what a coefficient is..... it has nothing to do with this. I threw it in because I knew you were full of sh!t. The coefficient OF friction also does not increase as it is a fixed amount of drag between to parts. FRICTION increases in a manner to which it cannot be accurately calculated.

"Never did I say absolute, that's where you took your liberty. I'm not the one pitching the BS here."

80 is an absolute number. Assume is not absolute

You also said that the stock rear wheel hp from the graph is 138. First, understand that the H3 is a 4WD vehicle as has to be dynoed on an all-wheel drive dyno. No it doesn't. Do you think 4WD dynos magically appeared when the H3 did? People drop the front shaft and put it in 4HI loc to obtain RWHP readings all over the country. There is no way to assume that it is a 4 wheel dyno. This isn't rear wheel hp it is wheel hp. Then you said the new new HP curve has a peak hp of 153. Isn't 153 - 138 = 15 hp??? These are your numbers. Where's the net 13 BHP coming from that you calculated??? Where's the 13 HP that you keep referring too??? I keep referring too?????? It comes from your dumb ass. You said 253 was the number, I simply used a guess of 220 and 80 (as round fcking numbers). Dumb ass I this is all gotten from YOUR fcked information, now you want to back-track out of it.

"There is no 100HP difference between BHP and rear wheel HP"

Correct. According to your numbers 220 - 138 = 82 hp. Then you are using 80 as a hp difference. What's the matter? You were called on your BS and now can't back it and are now relegated to arguing assumptions? How did you conveniently skip over the word assume in front of the number 80 in my post.

All I did was take the numbers that you posted and consolidated them. You biased each number in your favor. Now, who is taking the liberties.
I biased the numbers? sheezus..... there is no end to your flaming load of crock. I ended up rounding the fcking numbers up OVER your stated BS and they still didn't wash with what your originally stated. Yeah, you consolidated my numbers, and ended up with a steaming pile of sh!t after you did. You didn't comprehend anything nor did you do much else than show your complete lack of credibility. Don't worry, I'm sure many want to "talk" tuning with you now.

Stick to your happy meal word search, and help Ronald find the hamburgerler. We're all counting on you!

When you reply, as you know you will, let's try not using the playground words like: turd, dummy, dumber, dumb, etc. as you seem to refer to everyone as. Ok

Clearly, you spend way too much time in darkened rooms in front of your seven-year-old computer turning a whiter shade of pale. Go outside once in a while and breathe, before your brain starts to rot from all that festering stagnation and cognitive dysfunction. It's obvious now that you make slugs and other invertebrates look like Nobel Prize winners.

Clearly, the full area of your ignorance is not yet mapped and we are presently only exploring the fringes of that vast expanse. If wit was spit, your mouth would be drier than a shallow well in an African heat wave. Maybe you wouldn't be such a Jerk-In-The-Box if you weren't intellectually outclassed by dead sheep. I'd get more pleasure from running my nostrils down a cactus, than reading another contribution from you. However, I'll consider letting you have the last word if you guarantee it will be your very last.

You know, every now and then you meet someone whose ignorance is encyclopedic. You're him..

[h2co-pilot]

I eat my own poop.......that is all.

When you reply, as you know you will, let's try not using the playground words like: turd, dummy, dumber, dumb, etc. as you seem to refer to everyone as.

dumbass turdfayg.

[h2co-pilot]

I added this flux capacitor to mine it is only effective if:

1) it has to be going 88 mph
2) 1.21 gigawatts need to be going through the flux capacitor
3) the time circuits need to be on with a destination date set

http://www.star-sparkle.net/bttf/tn_August2004%20044.jpg

[HummBebe]

Silly Queen:D

[DennisAJC]

dumbass turdfayg.

X2.:mad:

What are you guys talking aboot anyways?:D

[HummerNewbie]

I added this flux capacitor to mine it is only effective if:


Alright CP, you got rid of the RX and got yourself an H3!!!! :p ;)

[Steve - SanJose]

Oh, this had turned into another wtf thread as usual.

S.

[KenP]

That guy again....:rolleyes:

[Michael1]

Ok,

do you attempt to think with that thing you call a brain or does it just occupy space. Go the fck back up and look at my posts. My first post in this thread where you have spat your ignorance contained this little gem "Since HP is the measure of torque over time, HP is just as limiting a factor as torque. You can't have HP without torque."

To which you disagreed.

Care to try some more?

You absolutely do not know what you are talking about. Show me one, just one specification sheet from an OEM manufacturer of transmissions or axles which has a limit on horsepower.

The problem with your brain is it can't distiguish between "power" and "force". Pity.

The other problem with your brain is it just doesn't have any class. You come on here trying to insult me and everyone else, while doing your little chest thumping routine. We're not impressed.

Michael

[Michael1]

For the new Z06, GM designed a cutout, so when you went to WOT (which does not have noise requirements) the cutouts opened for more power and substanially more noise.

Unless the noise standards have changed recently, auto manufacturers still have to meet a 50' full throttle noise test. The cutout is just to make the interior noise level liveable while cruising.

Michael

[PARAGON]

You absolutely do not know what you are talking about. Show me one, just one specification sheet from an OEM manufacturer of transmissions or axles which has a limit on horsepower. Damn this thread is loaded with the dummies.

You can't calculate HP w/o torque. Torque is the measure of applied force at one minute specific teeny tiny itty bitty moment in time.

It's the same as static and dynamic load ratings for cables and the such. Too bad shop class doesn't teach logic, it would help you distinguish between the skinny pedal and the others.

[PARAGON]

That guy again....:rolleyes:there's always one...... err about 7 or 8. (It's hard to keep track of all the AEs)

[PARAGON]

"There is no 100HP difference between BHP and rear wheel HP, which is what is being shown. Stock listed BHP for the H3 is what? somewhere around 220BHP and the stock rear wheel HP listed on the graph is about 138 HP. The coefficient for friction doesn't increase as the HP increases so one could naturally assume a 80HP difference. 153 + 80 = 233 or a net gain of about 13 BHP or somewhere around a 6% gain."

If the coefficient of friction doesn't increase as the HP increases (based on your quote) then the HP doesn't decrease as the HP decreases. Here you used a fixed HP loss value of 80 HP.

"Never did I say absolute, that's where you took your liberty. I'm not the one pitching the BS here."

80 is an absolute number.

You also said that the stock rear wheel hp from the graph is 138. First, understand that the H3 is a 4WD vehicle as has to be dynoed on an all-wheel drive dyno. This isn't rear wheel hp it is wheel hp. Then you said the new new HP curve has a peak hp of 153. Isn't 153 - 138 = 15 hp??? These are your numbers. Where's the net 13 BHP coming from that you calculated??? Where's the 13 HP that you keep referring too???

"There is no 100HP difference between BHP and rear wheel HP"

Correct. According to your numbers 220 - 138 = 82 hp. Then you are using 80 as a hp difference.

All I did was take the numbers that you posted and consolidated them. You biased each number in your favor. Now, who is taking the liberties.

Stick to your happy meal word search, and help Ronald find the hamburgerler. We're all counting on you!

When you reply, as you know you will, let's try not using the playground words like: turd, dummy, dumber, dumb, etc. as you seem to refer to everyone as.did you go downstairs and try to drum up some rebuttal material from dear ole dad yet?

Would you rather talk lasers now?

[Michael1]

Damn this thread is loaded with the dummies.

You can't calculate HP w/o torque. Torque is the measure of applied force at one minute specific teeny tiny itty bitty moment in time.

It's the same as static and dynamic load ratings for cables and the such. Too bad shop class doesn't teach logic, it would help you distinguish between the skinny pedal and the others.

Stiill waiting for that spec sheet from you for the OEM axle or transmission showing a limit on horsepower. Even a transfer case will do.

Michael

[PARAGON]

Stiill waiting for that spec sheet from you for the OEM axle or transmission showing a limit on horsepower. Even a transfer case will do.

Michaelstill waiting for you to show me that GED you said you had.

[Steve - SanJose]

And still waiting for anything useful on this thread...:D

S.

[PARAGON]

And still waiting for anything useful on this thread...:D

S.you certainly are not it

[Desert Dan]

I have some magnets that you can put on your fuel line that will increase you HP and MPG.

They may work on the Tornado on the air intake too.

The magnet helps to get the air and fuel molecules aligned with the Earth's vortex. They work better in Sedona AZ and Santa Fe NM

[HIHUMMER]

BTT...this is gonna get interesting!


Someone pass the popcorn!

[Paragon_Is_An-Ass]

Damn this thread is loaded with the dummies.

Hi - I am Paragon's alter ego. I just want to let everyone know that I am very unsecure so I feel that I need to insult everyone. Maybe it's because my wife fcks around with the neighbors or because I was abused as a child. I am not sure... I'm not sure of anything. I like to insult people to make myself feel better. I feel like a bigger person when I let go on others. Maybe it was because I rode to school on the short little yellow bus. Most of the time I was late for the bus because I would chit my pants and my mommy had to change my clothes.

I really don't know what I am talking about most of the time... That is another reason I like to insult people. When I insult people, they tend to get so upset about my insults, they don't even realize that I have no earthly idea what I am talking about.

I cannot contribute to ANY thread in a positive manner. I MUST cut people down to feel better about myself. Let's face it, I have severe problems. I know that everyone is aware of this but I hope that by piling on more insults, people won't notice.

I look up most of the information I use to challenge people on the Internet. Most of the time I am wrong, but who cares? I have more insults! Perhaps I will committ suicide soon to end my miserable life. I know I should... But I feel that I must stick around here just to insult people.

Gee... What do you think?

[h2co-pilot]

Hi - I am Paragon's alter ego. I just want to let everyone know that I am very unsecure so I feel that I need to insult everyone. Maybe it's because my wife fcks around with the neighbors or because I was abused as a child. I am not sure... I'm not sure of anything. I like to insult people to make myself feel better. I feel like a bigger person when I let go on others. Maybe it was because I rode to school on the short little yellow bus. Most of the time I was late for the bus because I would chit my pants and my mommy had to change my clothes.

I really don't know what I am talking about most of the time... That is another reason I like to insult people. When I insult people, they tend to get so upset about my insults, they don't even realize that I have no earthly idea what I am talking about.

I cannot contribute to ANY thread in a positive manner. I MUST cut people down to feel better about myself. Let's face it, I have severe problems. I know that everyone is aware of this but I hope that by piling on more insults, people won't notice.

I look up most of the information I use to challenge people on the Internet. Most of the time I am wrong, but who cares? I have more insults! Perhaps I will committ suicide soon to end my miserable life. I know I should... But I feel that I must stick around here just to insult people.

Gee... What do you think?

Oh my sweet gheynez.http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/geno/rotz.gif Pathetic.

http://www.overtorqued.net/images/smilies/endself.gif

[PARAGON]

I have a feeling I will get the blame for this one too ;)

ALL YOUR AE ARE BELONG TO ME :D:DNope, entirely too much thought and love was put into this one for it to be you.

I think he wants a date. Sounds like he wants a kiss.

[PARAGON]

Nope, entirely too much thought and love was put into this one for it to be Alec.

I think he wants a date. Sounds like he wants a kiss.

I thought all AEs are me according to the great know it all Paragon. But? some might be other people?

Whoa, you actually admitted this.

Nice, but this one was me.




Not so surprising that YOU would be the one wanting a date and a kiss.

[PARAGON]

What's the matter Alec? You have no conviction? You can't post your BS and then stick by it without deleting it afterwards?

What's the point in the deletions.:rolleyes:

[PARAGON]

Actually the owned pic was moderated. Nice try tho.you deleted your posts, nice try tho

[PARAGON]

Nope, however believe what you want, it makes no difference to me what you think.

BTW the sky is green and grass is blue.lies come easy for you, don't they.

pitiful

[QATAR]

http://www.amerits.com/images/hummer/luxh31.JPG

[Steve - SanJose]

Quatar - what are we looking at in that H3 pic?

S.

[fourfourto]

Quatar - what are we looking at in that H3 pic?

S.

X2 link to sound file of exaust would be nice.:D

[wpage]

Had some improvement in performance by adding S&B Filter replacing stock air filter. In addition cut a 3" hole and inserted a aluminum flex tube running out under thru front starboard wheelwell to hole in bumper as a natural ram with a common air conditioner filter.
My estimate 5-10% gain in torque and hp. Impact on warrentee after cutting hole in air plenum is unknown!

[PARAGON]

.

[KenP]

Ram Air on a HUMMER? http://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/geno/rofl.gifhttp://smilies.vidahost.com/contrib/sarge/Whatever_anim.gif

[Steve - SanJose]

Yea and engineered by hacksaw. No need to ask the dealer about warranty coverage. More noise than horsepower gain is guaranteed.

S.

[fourfourto]

Had some improvement in performance by adding S&B Filter replacing stock air filter. In addition cut a 3" hole and inserted a aluminum flex tube running out under thru front starboard wheelwell to hole in bumper as a natural ram with a common air conditioner filter.
My estimate 5-10% gain in torque and hp. Impact on warrentee after cutting hole in air plenum is unknown!


Nots not a good idea if your going through water :eek:

Ram air + water = blown moter


I dont have the factory ram air on my 68 442 so I made one and have two 3 inch hoses running down under the bumper(used 2 wet vac attachments for ducts at bumper and metal elbows from home depot at the air cleaner).:D

[wpage]

GM Did not do thier homework,
There are mods that can enhance the H3 with upgrades...
A. Add S&B Air Filter replace stock filter for beter aspiration.
B. Cut 3" hole to air plenum and add aluminum flex air tube from plenum to bumper air foil.
C. Modify air input to battery and rerout direct to air input.
Result 5 -10 % increase in HP and torque with no loss in MPG and potential increase in MPG dependent on driving.
Regards,
W Page

[PARAGON]

GM Did not do thier homework,
There are mods that can enhance the H3 with upgrades...
A. Add S&B Air Filter replace stock filter for beter aspiration.
B. Cut 3" hole to air plenum and add aluminum flex air tube from plenum to bumper air foil.
C. Modify air input to battery and rerout direct to air input.
Result 5 -10 % increase in HP and torque with no loss in MPG and potential increase in MPG dependent on driving.
Regards,
W Page
A. GM is not going to put high-flow oil cover filters in their vehicles. Paper filters filter to lower microns, period. How do you think it get's higher air flow?

B. I'm sure the engine breathes fine. If you are referring to your stupid ass ram air idea you posted above. OK. But why would you add flex crap when it restricts flow. Why not make a smooth tube like someone with any logical knowledge would do?

C. I don't think having air going to the battery is going to do much.

D. Do you sell these? http://www.turbonator.com/

http://www.electricsupercharger.com/

[HummBebe]

GM Did not do thier homework

Oh yeah, and .....

http://i12.photobucket.com/albums/a240/HummBeeBe/soopersmartt.jpg

[DDWH]

Hi - I am Paragon's alter ego. I just want to let everyone know that I am very unsecure so I feel that I need to insult everyone. Maybe it's because my wife fcks around with the neighbors or because I was abused as a child. I am not sure... I'm not sure of anything. I like to insult people to make myself feel better. I feel like a bigger person when I let go on others. Maybe it was because I rode to school on the short little yellow bus. Most of the time I was late for the bus because I would chit my pants and my mommy had to change my clothes.

I really don't know what I am talking about most of the time... That is another reason I like to insult people. When I insult people, they tend to get so upset about my insults, they don't even realize that I have no earthly idea what I am talking about.

I cannot contribute to ANY thread in a positive manner. I MUST cut people down to feel better about myself. Let's face it, I have severe problems. I know that everyone is aware of this but I hope that by piling on more insults, people won't notice.

I look up most of the information I use to challenge people on the Internet. Most of the time I am wrong, but who cares? I have more insults! Perhaps I will committ suicide soon to end my miserable life. I know I should... But I feel that I must stick around here just to insult people.

Gee... What do you think?

Paragon_Is_An-Ass (http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/member.php?u=5216) http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif vbmenu_register("postmenu_272708", true);
You have been Banned!

[PARAGON]

I thought all AEs are me according to the great know it all Paragon. But… some might be other people?

Whoa, you actually admitted this.

Nice, but this one was me.
wonder why he was banned?

[usetosellhummer]

can't we all just get along, what am i saying ?

[Steve - SanJose]

Don't know. What are you saying?:)

S.

[NEOCON1]

i dont need any more power :p