WARNING - H3 Off Road Lights - Possible Fire Hazard

[H3.007]

Hi All,

Recently, I accidently bumped the off-road light switch in my H3 without realizing it. I began smelling burnt plastic about 15 minutes after I fgure I had bumped the switch but did not realize what was "burning" until I noticed my lamp covers warping about an hour after I figured bumped the switch.


The Hummer dealer I bought the H3 from had installed the off-raod lights post shipment. When I told them about the problem, they allegedly checked the GM specs for the installation and they said they did it correctly - but were willing to replace the damaged items and rewire the switch to the ignition relay.

I have been wiring vehicle electronics for close to fifteen years now and I have never heard of wiring a push button switch to a "hot wire". Does anyone else have an H3 with the hot-wired botton? Do any of the Hummer techs that frequent this site know if it is a common practice to do this or not? If it is - fair warning - I bet there's a decent chance that the melt could result in a fire that could burn the vehicle, house, or garage the hicle was stored in if not caught in time. Thankfully, I was there to realise the problem. But I wonder what would happen if the problem was left unattended overnight???

[f5fstop]

Gee, irregardless of whether or not the switch was wired hot or not, if you turn on the switch, be it a throw or push button type, the lights will come on, and the covers, if installed will melt.
I agree, if wired to ign Hot versus B+, the ignition switch would cut them off.
So, not sure what you are trying to say, except you accidentally hit a switch and burned your covers. Hell, I have done that a few times myself with aftermarket lights. From experience, the covers will not burn, but will melt quite nicely.:D My experience comes from a lot higher output bulbs than the 55 watters used on the factory lights, I never started a fire.

Also, hate to inform you, this is not considered an "electronic" circuit, it is an electrical circuit, we are not talking in milliamperes, but in AMPS. There is a big difference between the two.

Want to change it to a ignition circuit, write me and I'll send you the exterior light schematics. With your experience, it should not be a problem.

[H3.007]

Hummer called me back and they are going to replace the whole thing, wiring it to the ignition switch, despite the fact they claim they followed GM specs in wiring it the way they did. I called a GM garage and they stated that the wiring should have never been connected the way it is...

So regardless of what you call it, someone screwed up. Fair warning for those with these lights - while "us idiots" who know not to run our lights with the covers on have now been re-educated that you aren't supposed to (land o goshen, golly gee), an accidental switch activation due to improper wiring is possible with these lights. Check yours before you have the same problem I did.

[bjc]

So, not sure what you are trying to say, except you accidentally hit a switch and burned your covers.

Yeah, that was my impression as well - your title is a bit alarmist.

I accidently broke the plastic tabs that keep the covers on so I ride without them. I know they are technically supposed to be covered when not in use, but I have ended up using the lights a whole lot more now since I can just hit the switch instead of having to get my lazy ass out of the truck to remove the covers.

[H3.007]

I'd rather be an alarmist than to have somebody's child burn up because of someone's stupid mistake and the chance that a fire may happen regardless of the odds and experience.

Also, don't try riding around Pennsylvania with your covers off because you didn't feel like putting them on - its an instant invite for a respectable traffic citation.

[evldave]

Hi All,

Recently, I accidently bumped the off-road light switch in my H3 without realizing it. I began smelling burnt plastic about 15 minutes after I fgure I had bumped the switch but did not realize what was "burning" until I noticed my lamp covers warping about an hour after I figured bumped the switch.

Been there, done that. Melted the plastic covers right into the lens. It was one of those black plastic toggle switches. I switched to lighted aircraft style (w/o the interlock) so now I know when they are on. We all make mistakes.:D


The Hummer dealer I bought the H3 from had installed the off-road lights post shipment. When I told them about the problem, they allegedly checked the GM specs for the installation and they said they did it correctly - but were willing to replace the damaged items and rewire the switch to the ignition relay.

I checked the FSM - Roof Mounted Off-road lights are wired HOT full time straight from the fusebox. Instructions to install are cake. I'm guessing the installation was done per spec.

I have been wiring vehicle electronics for close to fifteen years now and I have never heard of wiring a push button switch to a "hot wire".

Now you have...

Does anyone else have an H3 with the hot-wired botton? Do any of the Hummer techs that frequent this site know if it is a common practice to do this or not?

Based on what I see, I'm hoping everyone does. I don't know where you come from, but all my offroad lights are wired full-time hot so I can have them on at night without having to start the truck (and hope I don't wear down the battery):D

If it is - fair warning - I bet there's a decent chance that the melt could result in a fire that could burn the vehicle, house, or garage the hicle was stored in if not caught in time. Thankfully, I was there to realise the problem. But I wonder what would happen if the problem was left unattended overnight???

I completely disagree with this. The ignition temperature of most metals (what your truck is made with) is higher than what the light will get. The ignition temperature of the plastic (is it ABS, I don't have one) is also likely much higher than the lights will get.

Most likely scenario for when people forget and leave their covers on is the plastic melts and stinks. If you aren't around, the temps will get high enough to most likely melt the wiring of lights, causing a short and cutting power (and no more melting!). Most wiring is rated 90-105C, which is much lower than the ignition temps of most plastics, so the insulation melts first, before there's a fire.

[evldave]

Hummer called me back and they are going to replace the whole thing, wiring it to the ignition switch, despite the fact they claim they followed GM specs in wiring it the way they did. I called a GM garage and they stated that the wiring should have never been connected the way it is...

Then the 2nd GM garage you called is wrong.

So regardless of what you call it, someone screwed up.

Just you, my friend.

Fair warning for those with these lights - while "us idiots" who know not to run our lights with the covers on have now been re-educated that you aren't supposed to (land o goshen, golly gee), an accidental switch activation due to improper wiring is possible with these lights. Check yours before you have the same problem I did.

Or just don't turn on the switch with the covers on.

[NEOCON1]

he had some crispy micky mouse ears :p ;) :D

[evldave]

I'd rather be an alarmist than to have somebody's child burn up because of someone's stupid mistake and the chance that a fire may happen regardless of the odds and experience.

Also, don't try riding around Pennsylvania with your covers off because you didn't feel like putting them on - its an instant invite for a respectable traffic citation.

Aren't you on 1st name basis with the PA Attorney General? Maybe you should just call him and tell him to ban all offroad light covers because of the pervasive threat to all helpless children due to their own PARENTS negligence. Sorry, buddy, this one is all you...

[HummBebe]

evldave with the FSM. I suppose I could have called you this weekend....glad I kept you cell, I'll remember next time:D:D:D:D:D

[evldave]

Off-road light schematic (http://community.webshots.com/photo/552533348/2663849740085270165libWZM)

[evldave]

evldave with the FSM. I suppose I could have called you this weekend....glad I kept you cell, I'll remember next time:D:D

Anytime! Just let me know! I carry them in the truck, so they are almost always at hand in case of emergency (ps-I did the same thing as the tech when I took my panel off - forgot to hook back up the fan control, took me a full day to realize it was my own dang fault :rolleyes: )

[f5fstop]

Eldave has done an excellent job of rebuttal, and that wiring schematic is just like mine.:D

I carry my schematics on the laptop....:D

[Mark805]

I went into my dealership a few weeks ago and they had one of those blue limited edition H2T in the showroom. My sales guy comes up and tells me how sweet it is and I was drooling, I love that blue color.

I look up at the off road lights on the roof and ask "Are those warped covers included? Cause they look like crap."

He looks up and the look on his face about made me laugh. I said "good thing I bought the H3 without the off road lights". Someone had left the lights on and melted the covers. He promply had the service dept out there moving stuff around.

moral of the story: Can happen to anyone. Like mom always says "Turn off the lights!"

note to self: Dont argue with evldave

[ree]

Based on what I see, I'm hoping everyone does. I don't know where you come from, but all my offroad lights are wired full-time hot so I can have them on at night without having to start the truck (and hope I don't wear down the battery):D
Can't you wire it to a circuit that's on when the key is in the run position, put the key in and turn it to run, but don't start the engine? Yes you have to put the key in, but you don't have to start the truck.

[PARAGON]

Can't you wire it to a circuit that's on when the key is in the run position, put the key in and turn it to run, but don't start the engine? Yes you have to put the key in, but you don't have to start the truck.Yes, that is the way you wire them. Wiring them to constant 12V POS makes no sense for practical purposes.

Aftermarket light manufacturers even vary on their wiring diagrams. Some are through a switched source and some just say 12V POS.

The grill lights that came on the H2 were wired hot all the time and when I put the PIAAs up there, I rewired the switch to be on a switched circuit. It's just a matter of common sense. I don't need the lights to be able to burn without the key on and more importantly the engine running (since now I have 8 - 85 watt and 4 - 55 watt lights).

But, H3.007, why don't you think the same thing can occur with the key ON. I've melted covers before. It get's gooey, makes a mess, cools down, hardens and then is a pain. It doesn't catch fire, it doesn't kill little children or blow up houses or even cause heart attacks. The true hazard is to your ego for being the idiot that hit the switch and melted your covers. Get over it, you are certainly not the first and most certainly won't be the last.

[ree]

Yes, that is the way you wire them. Wiring them to constant 12V POS makes no sense for practical purposes.
I know this.:rolleyes: It was sort of a rhetorical question to point out to evldave that you can get run the lights without engine wired to ignition switched. And for H3.007, if he's still afraid of a house fire, it'll eliminate that scenario.

But why don't you (H3.007) think the same thing can occur with the key ON. I've melted covers before. It get's gooey, makes a mess, cools down, hardens and then is a pain. It doesn't catch fire, it doesn't kill little children or blow up houses or even cause heart attacks. The true hazard is to your [H3.007's] ego for being the idiot that hit the switch and melted your covers. Get over it, you (H3.007) are certainly not the first and most certainly won't be the last.
Redirected/fixed.

[PARAGON]

I know this.:rolleyes: It was sort of a rhetorical question to point out to evldave that you can get run the lights without engine wired to ignition switched. And for H3.007, if he's still afraid of a house fire, it'll eliminate that scenario.I know this:rolleyes: I was backing up what you were saying :D

Damn, people are awfully jumpy around here.:(

I was simply adding to your comment.

There, I edited it to make it clear to whom I was addressing.;)

[ree]

I know this:rolleyes: I was backing up what you were saying :D
I thought (now know) you knew, I know this. :D

Damn, people are awfully jumpy around here.:(
I've been up since 3:30 (child issues) and am a little over-coffee'ed.

[PARAGON]

I've been up since 3:30 (child issues) and am a little over-coffee'ed.melted light covers?;)

[ree]

melted light covers?;)
No. Something else...not sure what as 2 year olds aren't that good at explaining their woes.

[evldave]

I carry my schematics on the laptop....:D

Lucky you;) I wasn't about to spend $400 on the DVD (I tried a group buy with friends/family, but everyone said "It's a new truck, why would I need a FSM?"). Now, I just carry around 20lbs of paper with me everywhere I drive.

[evldave]

Can't you wire it to a circuit that's on when the key is in the run position, put the key in and turn it to run, but don't start the engine? Yes you have to put the key in, but you don't have to start the truck.

I prefer to have at least one set of lights available when the ignition is off - I hate the chimes and sometimes at night it's nice to have some serious light.

That said, you should be able to manually wire the relay from an open ACC/IGN position on the fusebox. I can't remember what # I used, but there are quite a few available switched spots - just run a (12+ gauge) wire from the fuse box to the power input on the relay (ignore the schematic) - the switch in the cab would work, but the relay would have no power unless the switch was on.

[cestwick]

I am at home now and would have to look but I do know for a fact that roof mounted lights are on a "HOT" circuit but the Grille mounted lights are on a "Ign. on HOT" cicuit. I do not know why GM made one hot all the time and not the other or vis-versa but they did. If you want it to be keyed hot all you would have to do is switch the wire in the fuse box from the roof light terminal to the grille lights terminal..before you ask I do not have that info with me but can find out or someone esle on here might have it available..

Chris

[PARAGON]

I am at home now and would have to look but I do know for a fact that roof mounted lights are on a "HOT" circuit but the Grille mounted lights are on a "Ign. on HOT" cicuit. I do not know why GM made one hot all the time and not the other or vis-versa but they did. If you want it to be keyed hot all you would have to do is switch the wire in the fuse box from the roof light terminal to the grille lights terminal..before you ask I do not have that info with me but can find out or someone esle on here might have it available..

ChrisChris,

Are you sure the grille lights are not wired off the low beam headlights ie- the headlights have to be on to turn the grill lights on? Sometimes aux lights switch are fed this way.

[f5fstop]

Grille lights are controlled by the BCM, which in turn controls the RAP circuit. You could do some rewiring from the roof to the grille, but it would be more than one wire.
Roof has one wire coming out of the fuse box; whereas, the grille has two wires; not counting the BCM control circuit for the RAP relay.
It would be easier to do some cutting and butting of wires, than trying to rewire the roof lights to be the same as grille lights.

[MxHonda]

I'd rather be an alarmist than to have somebody's child burn up because of someone's stupid mistake and the chance that a fire may happen regardless of the odds and experience.



And we should close down the trails that are getting all torn up by 4 wheelers and bikers. Save the forest for our children! (unless they get all burnt up by leaving you light covers on and starting the city on fire) then we can keep the trails open :D

If I leave the stove on, a candle lit, or the Iron on, and it burns my house down, who can I blame? :rolleyes:

Really, thanks for the heads up! I always like it when I can learn from someone elses mistake. God knows I make enough of my own!:o