Torsion Bar Information

[humdoug]

I received the attached document from Truxxx Manufacturing and it does provide some helpful information on how the torsion bars work.

Contact Information:

Truxxx Manufacturing LLC
810 E 19th St, Tucson, AZ 85719
(480) 882-0717 or toll free at 888-660-5892 - Fax: (480) 993-2267
Email info@truxxx.com (info@truxxx.com): http://www.truxxx.com (http://www.truxxx.com)


I currently have my bars adjusted 2 1/2 turns and I just ordered the Truxxx H3 Lift Kit. Should have it installed next week and I will provide feedback.

[wpage]

Good info,
I adjusted mine 2 turns and seems OK. Some lift to front end and no significant stifness noted. In fact seems the same ride so far. Thinking that if foul weather or catastrofic conditions occur I will crank it to the max to get up high to beat the water and come what may...
Regards,
W Page

[cestwick]

I received the attached document from Truxxx Manufacturing and it does provide some helpful information on how the torsion bars work.

Contact Information:

Truxxx Manufacturing LLC
810 E 19th St, Tucson, AZ 85719
(480) 882-0717 or toll free at 888-660-5892 - Fax: (480) 993-2267
Email info@truxxx.com (info@truxxx.com): http://www.truxxx.com (http://www.truxxx.com)


I currently have my bars adjusted 2 1/2 turns and I just ordered the Truxxx H3 Lift Kit. Should have it installed next week and I will provide feedback.

I just read the Truxxx report and while most of it is true that style of torsion key is not used in the H3. The H3 has a key bolt twice as big and doesn't force the end of the key up as in other gm's, It pulls the key down as you tighten the bolt. One thing I have noticed with the H3 is as you tighten the torsion bars the ride ends up getting rough...This is happening because the shock is "topping out". I cranked my torsion bars up 7 or 8 turns and untill my extended BDS shocks get here shimmed the shock lower in the mount so it is not "topping out. I also built a set of rear shackles that are 2 1/2 inches longer then stock to raise the rear and inch or so to match the front. In this pic I have the H3 with 315 Coopers, torsion bars cranked and shackles installed.

[humdoug]

I just read the Truxxx report and while most of it is true that style of torsion key is not used in the H3. The H3 has a key bolt twice as big and doesn't force the end of the key up as in other gm's, It pulls the key down as you tighten the bolt. One thing I have noticed with the H3 is as you tighten the torsion bars the ride ends up getting rough...This is happening because the shock is "topping out". I cranked my torsion bars up 7 or 8 turns and untill my extended BDS shocks get here shimmed the shock lower in the mount so it is not "topping out. I also built a set of rear shackles that are 2 1/2 inches longer then stock to raise the rear and inch or so to match the front. In this pic I have the H3 with 315 Coopers, torsion bars cranked and shackles installed.

I believe everyones concern is wanting to know the "acceptable limit" a torsion bolt can be turned without premature damage to connecting parts or the torsion bar itself. We (H3 owners) don't have any long term studies or verifications. I believe most, like me, are just winging it and scared to go beyone 3 turns. You went 7 or 8. For some this may be risky, others acceptable.

Please give some addition information:
How long ago did you do the 7 to 8 turns ?
How is the current ride and do you believe it will be better with new shocks?
Anticipate any wearing problems?
Other concerns?

I purchased the Truxxx kit and it gets installed on 8/2/06. I'll provide feedback and photos.

Thanks for the input of the Truxxx report.

[HummBebe]

I just read the Truxxx report and while most of it is true that style of torsion key is not used in the H3. The H3 has a key bolt twice as big and doesn't force the end of the key up as in other gm's, It pulls the key down as you tighten the bolt. One thing I have noticed with the H3 is as you tighten the torsion bars the ride ends up getting rough...This is happening because the shock is "topping out". I cranked my torsion bars up 7 or 8 turns and untill my extended BDS shocks get here shimmed the shock lower in the mount so it is not "topping out. I also built a set of rear shackles that are 2 1/2 inches longer then stock to raise the rear and inch or so to match the front. In this pic I have the H3 with 315 Coopers, torsion bars cranked and shackles installed.


Wait......are you married????







J/K:p :p :D ;) ;)

[MxHonda]

untill my extended BDS shocks get here shimmed the shock lower in the mount so it is not "topping out.

What did you use to lower the shock top mounting position?

Do you have a part # for the BDS shocks you ordered?

Thanks!

BTW here are my results and findings from 1 year ago...

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9434&highlight=torsion

[cestwick]

What did you use to lower the shock top mounting position? If you look at the top of the shock there is at least an inch of extra shaft left on the bolt. I just put a 1/2" space in between the bolt at the top of the shock and the washer for lower bushing.

Do you have a part # for the BDS shocks you ordered? For the front a 55602 and the rear a 55719. both BDS #'s in the 5500 series shock.

Thanks!

BTW here are my results and findings from 1 year ago...

http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=9434&highlight=torsion
Here

[Ipedog]

Humdoug - When are you having the Truxxx kit installed? I am very interested to see the results (I imagine that others are too ;)).

[DDWH]

Humdoug - When are you having the Truxxx kit installed? I am very interested to see the results (I imagine that others are too ;)).

X2!

[cestwick]

I am not an engineer or expert by any meens but I am an automotive technician that specializes in suspension and alignments. That said:

The only difference between the truxxis lift and what I did is they use a torsion key that offsets the twist on the torsion bar to raise the truck instead of just tightening the bolt already on the truck. Both methods turn the torsion bar the same exact amount and put the same amount of tension on the bar and the rest of the suspension. They make it sound in their paper that you are making it easier on the truck but all you are doing is changing one little part at the far end of the torsion bar. The "only" way to raise the truck and not put extra stress on the front suspension is to installe a lift kit that keeps the ball joints and other steering components in the stock position and angles.

They also give you a bracket to "lengthen" the shock. "I" would rather save the $400 turn up the torsion bars and buy a longer pair of shocks.

[H3.007]

Greetings!

Is the above green Hummer (nice ride btw!) showing the Truxx kit or just the torsion bar adjustment?

Also, on the torsion bar adjustment, when laying under the H3 and looking up at the adjustment bolts (with one's feet toward the rear end of the vehicle), which way do you crank - to the right or to the left?

Thanks!
Chris

[cestwick]

Greetings!

Is the above green Hummer (nice ride btw!) showing the Truxx kit or just the torsion bar adjustment? Thanks on the truck.

Also, on the torsion bar adjustment, when laying under the H3 and looking up at the adjustment bolts (with one's feet toward the rear end of the vehicle), which way do you crank - to the right or to the left?

Thanks!
Chris

Torsion bar adjustment.

Doesn't matter which way you are laying you turn the bar right to raise and left to lower. all it is is a bolt...righty tighty lefty loosey

[lance-n]

Wait......are you married????







J/K:p :p :D ;) ;)


LMAO BEBE!!!!

[humdoug]

I am not an engineer or expert by any meens but I am an automotive technician that specializes in suspension and alignments. That said:

The only difference between the truxxis lift and what I did is they use a torsion key that offsets the twist on the torsion bar to raise the truck instead of just tightening the bolt already on the truck. Both methods turn the torsion bar the same exact amount and put the same amount of tension on the bar and the rest of the suspension. They make it sound in their paper that you are making it easier on the truck but all you are doing is changing one little part at the far end of the torsion bar. The "only" way to raise the truck and not put extra stress on the front suspension is to installe a lift kit that keeps the ball joints and other steering components in the stock position and angles.

They also give you a bracket to "lengthen" the shock. "I" would rather save the $400 turn up the torsion bars and buy a longer pair of shocks.

I installed the Truxxx lift kit today. Did it myself and it took 1 1/2 hours total time. Not really a complicated installation but you better have some tools. The hard part was closing the shocks to install the shock lift bracket and inserting the bolts. The ride is smoother and I did get the lift as advertized. Tomorrow I take it for a alignment so I can see how far the settings are off.

This is the lift kit I used and it cost $449 + $5 for shipping.

http://www.truxxx.com/hummer_products/hummer8.jpg

The dimension from the center of the wheel to the fender is now 24.25". Stock tires shown 265/R75/16. Dimension from black skid plate under the engine is 12".

I have some belief in the statements from cestwick. It looks like the new torsion key design plays with the tension on the torsion bar. In fact, if you compare the stock key to the Truxxx key the internal hex is offset telling me more tension is applied from the start of installation. Again, the ride is smooth as stock. {maybe cestwick can provide comment on how smooth his ride is}. Unfortunately I am not sure where I am relative to the stock torsion bolt/bar setting.:rolleyes:

Here is the photo of my rig! Its definately higher when getting in and out.

[Ipedog]

Humdoug -

Congrats! It looks good, very good. If you don't mind I have a couple quick questions:


Did you do the install yourself?
What is the distance from the ground to the top of the front bumper now?
What is the distance from the ground to the lowest point of the front skid plate?
What size tire are you running?I'm sure that I'll have more questions later... :rolleyes:

Thanks! :D

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Very nice ... I'm impressed with your setup. yeah, what's the tire size.

[humdoug]

I updated my original post with answers to the latest questions.

[humdoug]

Took the H3 in for alignment. Numbers were way off but had it realigned according the Truxxx specification provided with the kit. Ride feels good but still have some small torsion bar noises inside the new keys. I should have put some lubricant inside the key during installation. I did spray some liquid grease and the noise cut way down. I believe the noise will go away with a few rides.

Now my discovery. When we all made adjustments to the torsion bars, 2, 2 1/2, 3 or more turns, what did we use for alignment specs? Most, like me, will say "the stock alignment specification".

After comparing the "stock" spec to the "Truxxx spec" the numbers are quite different and the Truxxx spec compensated for the additional lift. This would indicate we all have improper alignments with "cranked torsion bars" and stock alignment specs.:eek:

Maybe someone within the forum world can give some expert alignment specs/details for anyone with torsion bar adjustments.

[cestwick]

Took the H3 in for alignment. Numbers were way off but had it realigned according the Truxxx specification provided with the kit. Ride feels good but still have some small torsion bar noises inside the new keys. I should have put some lubricant inside the key during installation. I did spray some liquid grease and the noise cut way down. I believe the noise will go away with a few rides.

Now my discovery. When we all made adjustments to the torsion bars, 2, 2 1/2, 3 or more turns, what did we use for alignment specs? Most, like me, will say "the stock alignment specification".

After comparing the "stock" spec to the "Truxxx spec" the numbers are quite different and the Truxxx spec compensated for the additional lift. This would indicate we all have improper alignments with "cranked torsion bars" and stock alignment specs.:eek:

Maybe someone within the forum world can give some expert alignment specs/details for anyone with torsion bar adjustments.

What are the "new" specs from Truxxx

[HummBebe]

http://www.truxxx.com/instructions/403030-hummer-h3-instructions.pdf

It is at the bottom of the page...

[humdoug]

http://www.truxxx.com/instructions/403030-hummer-h3-instructions.pdf

It is at the bottom of the page...

These are the exact alignment numbers used for my alignment today.

Ride is smooooth and the H3 is setting high!:) :) Tonight I adjust the headlights down.

[HummBebe]

Wait......are you married????







J/K:p :p :D ;) ;)


You did not answer my question :-)

Nor did you respond to my request for additional shackles :-)

[cestwick]

You did not answer my question :-) Yes

Nor did you respond to my request for additional shackles :-) I am sure I could work something out once I weld mine and try them out this weekend at Timber Ridge Ranch in Iowa.

Not sure how many people are interested. I still have to get my shocks and install them. I also noticed that I will have to lengthen or at least arrange to allow the rear wheel speed sensor wires to travel the extra 2 or so inches that the shocks will allow.

Chris

[Ipedog]

Not sure how many people are interested. I still have to get my shocks and install them. I also noticed that I will have to lengthen or at least arrange to allow the rear wheel speed sensor wires to travel the extra 2 or so inches that the shocks will allow.

Chris

Chris -

Do you have pics of the sensor wire issue? How about the brake lines? Are there any issues with them?

Thanks! :D

[humdoug]

Chris,

What alignment spec did you use?

[cestwick]

Chris,

What alignment spec did you use?

I went pretty much with GM Service Info specs. I looked at the specs from Truxxx and they are pretty much within GM specs although they have a little less caster, and they have a little negative toe as aposed to positive.

Chris

[humdoug]

I went pretty much with GM Service Info specs. I looked at the specs from Truxxx and they are pretty much within GM specs although they have a little less caster, and they have a little negative toe as aposed to positive.

Chris

I'm not sure if the differences between the specs make a big difference or not. I plan to watch tire wear over the next couple months.

The H3 is sitting higher from my previous 2 1/2 bolt turns and it just fells better sitting exactly level. At 2 1/2 turns is wasn't level.

My jury is still out if the lift kit is any different from turning the torsion bolts 4 or 5 turns. I do know it's a smoother ride from the 2 1/2 bolt turns. This is why I can't determine which way is better. Maybe it's not the kit or bolt turns but the extension of the shocks that make it a smoother ride.

What the hell - the H3 is higher, smoother ride and the wife is having a hard time getting in. Three great improvements!:p

[lance-n]

I'm not sure if the differences between the specs make a big difference or not. I plan to watch tire wear over the next couple months.

The H3 is sitting higher from my previous 2 1/2 bolt turns and it just fells better sitting exactly level. At 2 1/2 turns is wasn't level.

My jury is still out if the lift kit is any different from turning the torsion bolts 4 or 5 turns. I do know it's a smoother ride from the 2 1/2 bolt turns. This is why I can't determine which way is better. Maybe it's not the kit or bolt turns but the extension of the shocks that make it a smoother ride.

What the hell - the H3 is higher, smoother ride and the wife is having a hard time getting in. Three great improvements!:p


Truck looks great BTW. Question - are you using stock shocks, or did you replace them with diifferent ones. If so, what type?

[humdoug]

The stock shocks are still on but the extension piece was added to lower shock bolt so the shocks work properly with the extra lift.

Wife still having a hard time getting in. :)

[Killer]

I too have the Truxxx kit installed and also previously had the torsion bars cranked. I speak from experience...the ride with the Truxxx kit is the same as the original ride from the factory. Not sure about any of you guys but the ride with the torsion bars "cranked" up was starting to get on my nerves and was very rough in comparison to that of the Truxxx lifted version of my H3. The price may seem steep but in IMHO it was money well spent as I now enjoy driving the H3 much more than I did when it "jarred" at every uneven section in the highway.

[H3.007]

I had my torsion bars adjusted this weekend by a garage that does professional alignments for individuals as well as many of the local delaerships. The system they used has digital cameras, IR sensors, and wheel mounted reflectors that measure the usual (caster, camber, etc. etc.). The system keeps a record of all adjustments for fine tuning or complete reversal.

The mech that did the work felt that the factory alignment was not correct from the get go. He spent about an hour and a half on the alignment and torsion bar adjustment. Total height adjustment was around three inches in the front and it now sits level. However, he had to adjust the torsion bars many more times than the two or three often spoke of on here. He also said that he wants to see it in 7,000 miles (10,000 mark) to check for settling. Perhaps every H3 is a bit different?

Regardless, after 100 miles of driving both highway and street conditions, ride quality is tighter with less sway. Overall, I'd say it was worth the $40. I will post if I see any unusual wear on parts or tires. :beerchug:

[usetosellhummer]

One good off road trip will blow that all to hell

[H3.007]

Anyone else with the torsion bar adjustment "blow it all to hell" after off-roading?:confused:

[MountainBlue]

I had my torsion bars adjusted this weekend by a garage that does professional alignments for individuals as well as many of the local delaerships. The system they used has digital cameras, IR sensors, and wheel mounted reflectors that measure the usual (caster, camber, etc. etc.). The system keeps a record of all adjustments for fine tuning or complete reversal.

The mech that did the work felt that the factory alignment was not correct from the get go. He spent about an hour and a half on the alignment and torsion bar adjustment. Total height adjustment was around three inches in the front and it now sits level. However, he had to adjust the torsion bars many more times than the two or three often spoke of on here. He also said that he wants to see it in 7,000 miles (10,000 mark) to check for settling. Perhaps every H3 is a bit different?

Regardless, after 100 miles of driving both highway and street conditions, ride quality is tighter with less sway. Overall, I'd say it was worth the $40. I will post if I see any unusual wear on parts or tires. :beerchug:

Everyone is slightly different. With mine, the driver's side was way off from the factory. I did 2.5 turns on the passanger side and had to 5.5 turns on the drivers side to get the ride height the same. I only went up about 1.5" and will see how it feels. Then take it in for tires and alinment.

[Sewie]

Anyone else with the torsion bar adjustment "blow it all to hell" after off-roading?:confused:

I think he was referring to the alignment. And yes, I've blown the alignment all to hell offroad. :D

[Sewie]

Total height adjustment was around three inches in the front and it now sits level. However, he had to adjust the torsion bars many more times than the two or three often spoke of on here.

Not everyone went for "level." I only wanted 1-1.5" of lift so mine were only turned a couple times.

[zibby]

extended BDS shocks

Do you have a part number for them?

[DURAMAX TIM]

We've been doing these to the H2 and all the 99 up GM trucks and SUVs.

It just changes the a arm location in relation to the torsion bars.

No different tension/twist in the bars since they are carrying the same weight.
put a 300# bumper or a snow plow on the front then turn the bars up to the original level, the bars have more load on them.

As said before just have to watch topping out the shocks.

[H3slate]

I did the torsion bar adjustment today. Did two and half turns and gained 1 inch in ground clearance. It is getting an alignment right now. Any ride difference is barely noticeable and looks great!

[HummBebe]

:D So whats the update on this???

[HummBebe]

Ok let me ask more specifically.

How are the BDS's working? Have you installed them?

I looked up the part numbers and it shows they are for the Chevy/GMC 4WD K1500 (nonHD) 99-06 6" lift.

Did you have to modify the mounts at all?

Why BDS ? What are the actual length of the shocks?

Thanks, Bebe

[cestwick]

Ok let me ask more specifically.

How are the BDS's working? No prob's noted. Have you installed them? Yes. I replaced rear shocks.

I looked up the part numbers and it shows they are for the Chevy/GMC 4WD K1500 (nonHD) 99-06 6" lift. That's right.

Did you have to modify the mounts at all? no.
Why BDS ? What are the actual length of the shocks? Extended length is 2 inches longer then factory. Giving you 4 more inches of travel at the wheel. You will have to remove rear sway bar or get a different sway bar link. they will not extend the extra inches and will pop out of there socket. I just removed whole bar. Have not had any probs. Gm's never had sway bars on solid axles before I haven't noticed any extra body roll....

Thanks, Bebe:)

[HummBebe]

OK,thank you.

Did you keep the front shocks stock? You had noted that you turned your T-Bars, 7-8 turns, did you not get longer shocks for the front???

:)

[Ipedog]

OK,thank you.

Did you keep the front shocks stock? You had noted that you turned your T-Bars, 7-8 turns, did you not get longer shocks for the front???

:)
x2 - This would be an interesting thing to know. Would the H3 benefit from longer shocks up front OR would the longer shocks become a problem at the upper limit of the front suspensions travel?

Would it be better to instead have a bracket fabricated comperable to the Truxxx shock extension bracket as the range of motion remains the same?

http://www.truxxx.com/hummer_products/hummer8.jpg

Shock extension brackets shown on right.

[cestwick]

OK,thank you.

Did you keep the front shocks stock? You had noted that you turned your T-Bars, 7-8 turns, did you not get longer shocks for the front???

:)

Yes I kept the front shocks factory. You would not benefit much from longer shocks in front because you are limited in the travel by the whole geometry of the front suspension. I do believe the brackets from Truxx would help the stiff front end if you crank the torsion bars up to the point it tops out the shock. The top shaft on the shock is long enough I just put a spacer between the shock and the lower bushing washer, efectively alowing the shock to sit lower in the mount and let it extend a little further.

[HummBebe]

BTT, anybody seen cestwick???

I have a couple of questions.....:)

[cestwick]

BTT, anybody seen cestwick???

I have a couple of questions.....:)
Last i know he was working at a T*y**a Dealership.

What can i do for ya?

Chris

[HummBebe]

I had my shackles built, just wanted to know if there is any feedback from your set up? It's been a while since you installed.

I have a 2" extended shackle.

[HummBebe]

Also, I found a Rancho 99227, from a 1 ton suburban 4" lift REAR, is 1" longer, all the same mounting, closed barpin, etc., and I think it's the same as the BDS you mentioned earlier in this thread.

I found some Hellwig adjustable end links, and some helper springs.

The Avalanche front shock Rancho 99268, is the same size as the H3 but with 6"'s of travel, vs 2.34 that Rancho has for the H3, and 4"'s that the stock shock has.

Think this will work?

[evldave]

Also, I found a Rancho 99227, from a 1 ton suburban 4" lift REAR, is 1' longer, all the same mounting, closed barpin, etc., and I think it's the same as the BDS you mentioned earlier in this thread.

...

Think this will work?

Only if you put a 12" lift on your Hummer :fdance: :giggling:

[HummBebe]

1"



:fdance: :fdance: :fdance: :fdance: :fdance: :fdance: :fdance: :fdance: :fdance: :fdance:

[HummBebe]

Hey look I just passed 5000 posts. :grouphug:

[Steve - SanJose]

Aren't most people over 5000 posts either banned, jailed, deported, or missing for good reason?....http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

[cestwick]

I had my shackles built, just wanted to know if there is any feedback from your set up? It's been a while since you installed.

I have a 2" extended shackle.


I can't say that i have had any problems in the back or noticed anything good or bad, other then the fact that with extended travel in the rear from long shocks you will have to change sway bar links or remove the sway bar all togather(which is what i did). The stock links will not twist enough and will pop out of the joint when articulated.

[HummBebe]

Like I said, Hellwig products makes the end links that are adjustable. I called and they said it will work for an H3...

Are they important to have? or have you been OK without your Sway Bar?

[cestwick]

Also, I found a Rancho 99227, from a 1 ton suburban 4" lift REAR, is 1" longer, all the same mounting, closed barpin, etc., and I think it's the same as the BDS you mentioned earlier in this thread.

I found some Hellwig adjustable end links, and some helper springs.

The Avalanche front shock Rancho 99268, is the same size as the H3 but with 6"'s of travel, vs 2.34 that Rancho has for the H3, and 4"'s that the stock shock has.

Think this will work?

I don't see why that wouldnt work. The front shock will have more travel then you can use with the front bump stops, but if you raise the bars a little more then you have now to match the rear you will need the extra travel to keep front for topping out the shock and causeing the rough ride.

[cestwick]

Like I said, Hellwig products makes the end links that are adjustable. I called and they said it will work for an H3...

Are they important to have? or have you been OK without your Sway Bar?

I havent noticed one bit that the rear sway bar isnt there....If you look at 90% of the trucks on the road they dont have rear sway bars

[HummBebe]

http://i70.photobucket.com/albums/i84/Hummbebe/Cestwick.jpg
I can't wait till I have flex like this :jump:

[Sewie]

I can't wait till I have flex like this :jump:

Doesn't look like much more than stock. :confused:

37680

37681

[HummBebe]

Yeah it does, we both have 33's in those pics, he's got 35's on and it still looks like more flex.


AND QUIT PEEING IN MY CHEERIOS DAMMIT!!!! :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:

But it is kinda funny to see our trucks from sooooooo long ago.

[Sewie]

But it is kinda funny to see our trucks from sooooooo long ago.

Oh, so that's whose trucks those are. :giggling:

[cestwick]

Doesn't look like much more than stock. :confused:

37680

37681

I actually Measured difference between a stock truck and my truck on the test course behind the dealership and I had a full 4" extra drop from the wheel well to the 35's.

Chris