Kerry insults every man and woman in uniform

[GeorgeSSSS]

John Kerry's exact words to a group of students during a campaign stop at Pasadena City College for California Democratic gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides (another jerk):

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."

This insult to every man and woman in military uniform slipped out because that is how he really feels.

This SOB was born into a rich family with a silver spoon up his a$$ and has made a profession of marrying women who outlived their wealthy husbands. He is an elitest and a gigolo and the epitome of everything I don't want my sons to be.

George SSSS

[DennisAJC]

Kerry is just telling the truth.

[GeorgeSSSS]

Kerry is just telling the truth.
Dennis:

My son's friend graduated from high school with honors, went to the Naval Academy, and is a SEAL officer in Iraq. Did Kerry tell the truth about him?

[DennisAJC]

Dennis:

My son's friend graduated from high school with honors, went to the Naval Academy, and is a seal in Iraq. Did Kerry tell the truth about him?

Of course there is a percentage of highly educated. Small percentage.


Like the general public thinking that all Hummer owners never off road their rigs. But we all know that's not entirely true. But close enough.

[GeorgeSSSS]

Of course there is a percentage of highly educated. Small percentage.


Like the general public thinking that all Hummer owners never off road their rigs. But we all know that's not entirely true. But close enough.

Dennis: Have you ever been on active duty?

[PARAGON]

Kerry is just telling the truth.No, he's not.

You get stuck in "Ding, fries are done"

Some people feel it's an honor and their duty to go serve their country. Obviously, others like Kerry, feel it's an insult.

[BlueHUMMERH2]

I think I was the only person at our campus to approach the Marine recruiters and tell them, "Thank You." I support the troops, but I don't support the leadership they follow. I'm surprised people my age would actually enter the armed forces, because most I talk to (in the service or not) don't like the commander in chief and his policies. But I don't think it's fair to insult the troops. Insult the people who make their decisions for them.

[wpage]

But he has a top secret plan!

[BlueHUMMERH2]

Who? Kerry? Bush?

Most of the liberal extremists I've met think Bush's secret plan is that he'll somehow serve a 3rd term...

The conservative extremists think an atheist, gay, married couple will move in next door, some illegal immigrants will form a community crime watch group, and we'll all have to subside on organic vegetables and drive electric cars.

[DennisAJC]

I don't want fruitcakes living in my hood.

[mountainbiker]

You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in IraqGrrrrr !

[PARAGON]

I don't want fruitcakes living in my hood.Like Aubs?

[DennisAJC]

Like Aubs?

Yes.

[wpage]

Kerry owes service personel and thier family's a BIG apology.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Kerry's words were uncalled for :twak:

Like blue said, don't insult the troops just because you have a problem with the leadership. That's just wrong. It's awesome when someone joins the military out of patriotism or for experience, career path or education. But I will say it's sad when someone flunks out of high school and signs up because he has no other options.

[KenP]

The US has the most educated military in the world. You MUST have a High School diploma to enlist and while enlisted many continue with higher education since we, as a nation, pay for it. Good for us.:D

Kerry stepped in it big time. It was great watching Fox today.:jump:

Did you see Kerry nearly flipping out this afternoon? "I do not owe anyone an apology!"

I love Kerry. While he's not on the ballot, I bet he cost the dems a few votes and probably sank his '08 aspirations.:jump:

There's a reason politicians are so scripted.

[BlingBlingWJBoy]

D3MOCRATS AND LEIBRALS R STOOPID

[GeorgeSSSS]

D3MOCRATS AND LEIBRALS R STOOPID

You give them too much credit.

[MarineHawk]

Kerry is just telling the truth.

Fcuk you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

You worthless fcuk!! You have no idea. How many U.S. Marine officers or enlisted have you been around? I went to the Gulf War with a regiment of Marines that blew me away with their level of competence, integrity, intelligence, and diligence. Far, far in excess of any other professional group I have ever encountered before or since. In 1991, when my reserve regiment (the 24th) left, more than 50% of the regiment's enlisted had more than two years of college experience. The vast majority of those were were progressing to degrees. Yet they decided to enlist nonetheless, in the Marines, who offered the least college benefits of any service. Why? Because, although most were intelligent and competent, they wanted, for at least a brief period, to do something more meaningful and important to history than just taking the easiest path to the most money. What have you done for the world Dennis that was not in your own self interest?

Even by your own shallow standards, the Marines have done pretty well. I don't know what the percentages are today, but, in 1990, more than 20% of the U.S. Congressmen and Senators and C.E.O.s of the Fortune 500 companies were former Marines. Granted these people might not be up to your lofty caliber, but they did okay. I can only assume that the other U.S. Services are similarly filled with exceptionalism. And I assume it's even better today than in 1990. You simply don't know what you are talking about. These guys are smart, hard-working, dedicated, brave, and they are doing something more valuable than almost anyone else I am aware of is doing. They are heros. They really are.

[MarineHawk]

The US has the most educated military in the world. You MUST have a High School diploma to enlist and while enlisted many continue with higher education since we, as a nation, pay for it. Good for us.:D
Kerry stepped in it big time. It was great watching Fox today.:jump:

Did you see Kerry nearly flipping out this afternoon? "I do not owe anyone an apology!"
I love Kerry. While he's not on the ballot, I bet he cost the dems a few votes and probably sank his '08 aspirations.:jump:

There's a reason politicians are so scripted.

OMFG!

John Kerry is the gift that just keeps on giving!

Did he just single-handedly lose the mid-term elections for the Donkeys?

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2619383&page=1 (https://www.3476.org/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/story?id=2619383%26page=1) ("A Democratic congressman told ABC News Tuesday, "I guess Kerry wasn't content blowing 2004, now he wants to blow 2006, too.")

http://corner.nationalreview.com/ (https://www.3476.org/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://corner.nationalreview.com/)

http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/ (https://www.3476.org/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://hughhewitt.townhall.com/)

Sweet!

[MarineHawk]

I'm surprised people my age would actually enter the armed forces, because most I talk to (in the service or not) don't like the commander in chief and his policies. But I don't think it's fair to insult the troops. Insult the people who make their decisions for them.

Maybe you are talking to French and/or gay troops. Wrong.

Yeah, insulting the Commander in Chief is cool. It doesn't damage troop morale in wartime or anything like that. And morale of the troops barely factors in to combat effectiveness. Great idea.

[MarineHawk]

:jump:

Byron York: "And now, of course, Democrats, who might have to defend Kerry in public, are appalled at the way he has injected himself into the campaign. From their point of view, is there any doubt that his political instincts are always wrong? He made a mistake in 2004 by not responding earlier to the Swift Boat Veterans. And now, he has misapplied the lesson of '04 by over-responding to the controversy caused by his "you get stuck in Iraq" statement. The incident will follow him on the campaign trail for at least another day, and, at least once, Democratic candidates everywhere will have to address the Kerry Question. If you were looking for a Democratic candidate to support in 2008, would there be any doubt about who you would not choose?"

"DES MOINES, Iowa A Democratic Congressional candidate from Iowa is canceling a campaign event later this week with Senator John Kerry.
Brucy Braley says Kerry's recent comments about the Iraq war were inappropriate." http://www.eyewitnessnewstv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5616595&nav=F2DO

John McCain: "You can't make this up. His statement, basically, was so demeaning to the men and women who are serving in the military that you will be even more grateful than you are at this moment that George Bush is president of the United States?
You can't make this up. His statement was that if you get an education and you do well, then you don't have to go to Iraq, and if you don't have an education, then you have to go to Iraq. Do you know how demeaning that is to the men and women who are serving so magnificently in the cause of freedom and are fighting and dying in Iraq today? As I said, you can't make it up."

Jonah Goldberg: "That's just great stuff for the GOP. If he goes to PA, Santorum can cut an ad of Casey and Kerry together with Kerry's comments bookending the video. If Casey distances himself, the Kerry story has new oxygen. If Casey disinvites Kerry, more oxygen. If Kerry stays away, even more oxygen." http://corner.nationalreview.com/

[MarineHawk]

BTW: I'm over 1K posts now, and that makes me feel extra-fancy.

[PARAGON]

BTW: I'm over 1K posts now, and that makes me feel extra-fancy.Marines are uber ghey

That is all:giggling:

[DennisAJC]

I went to the Gulf War with a regiment of Marines that blew me away with their level of competence, integrity, intelligence, and diligence.

So....... You must be one of the stupid ones Kerry was referring to.

[DRTYFN]

So....... You must be one of the stupid ones Kerry was referring to.
I think Ken or CO should give you a 1 week vacation.

[Mrs.ssippi]

I think I was the only person at our campus to approach the Marine recruiters and tell them, "Thank You." I support the troops, but I don't support the leadership they follow. I'm surprised people my age would actually enter the armed forces, because most I talk to (in the service or not) don't like the commander in chief and his policies. But I don't think it's fair to insult the troops. Insult the people who make their decisions for them.You are able to say those things about our Commander in Chief and his policies because of our troops. I think most of the troops believe in our Commander in Chief, with the liberal press we only hear about the ones that don't believe in him and what we are doing over there. During a time of war I don't think our troops should hear anything negative while they are fighting over there. I know alot of you are young, but so am I. I know most of you "youngins" have at least read about Vietnam and how our troops were treated when they came home. I personally think that even if you don't believe 100% in what we are doing over there, you damn well better pretend that you do. Change things when you go in and vote. But other than that shut up and support our troops with everything you have. People "your age" are very proud to live in the USA, that is why they join the service. HOME OF THE FREE, BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE !!!!!!!!!!

[Mrs.ssippi]

So....... You must be one of the stupid ones Kerry was referring to.Your in time out go sit in the corner!!!!!!!!!!!:twak:

[William Howard Taft]

I think I was the only person at our campus to approach the Marine recruiters and tell them, "Thank You." I support the troops, but I don't support the leadership they follow. I'm surprised people my age would actually enter the armed forces, because most I talk to (in the service or not) don't like the commander in chief and his policies. But I don't think it's fair to insult the troops. Insult the people who make their decisions for them.

Sir, just because you want to float your sausage in a gumbo of real men, don't insult the Presidency over your sexual preferences.

[HummerHippy]

Yea! Who started that rumor that if you stayed in college, you'd get an exemption from the draft!

[Scouts Out]

Well Marine Hawk has the facts right, no high school drop out in the Army either. In the Battalion I deployed with, we had over 65% of our soldiers with some college. Of the Cavalry Troop that I commanded, I had nearly 100 soldiers and all but two had some college and over 50% were in college and went to Iraq.

Kerry is a idiot who had no issues to use the military how ever he liked, he used it to raise his statue in the 1970 by making up war crime stories he claims he commited (until they held a hearing to see if he should be charged then he decided he was tallking in a philosophic manner and did not actually happen) later had to recant, then he protrayed his military lineage during the election, now he is pissed that the military does not like he and he dumps on us regularly. His so called medals he won have been show to be examples of decorating himself, a very poor leadership style.

[frenzy1]

http://http://www.hit-country-music-lyrics.com/images/support_our_troops.gif


I support the men and women in uniform!!!!

[frenzy1]

http://www.ryanholman.com/images/support_our_troops.jpg

[BlueHUMMERH2]

You are able to say those things about our Commander in Chief and his policies because of our troops. I think most of the troops believe in our Commander in Chief, with the liberal press we only hear about the ones that don't believe in him and what we are doing over there. During a time of war I don't think our troops should hear anything negative while they are fighting over there. I know alot of you are young, but so am I. I know most of you "youngins" have at least read about Vietnam and how our troops were treated when they came home. I personally think that even if you don't believe 100% in what we are doing over there, you damn well better pretend that you do. Change things when you go in and vote. But other than that shut up and support our troops with everything you have. People "your age" are very proud to live in the USA, that is why they join the service. HOME OF THE FREE, BECAUSE OF THE BRAVE !!!!!!!!!!

I'm sorry, but that's a highly ignorant viewpoint. Blindly supporting a leader because you're trying to be "patriotic" and "an American". You know what happens when a nation does that, when they're fueled by the idea of a nationalism, blind to whatever injustices might occur along the way? You end up with a situation that none of us want to be in, fascism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism).

You're telling me if I enjoy my freedoms I need to just support the Comander in Chief (CIC) and go along with things? That's BS. If I wanted to praise the CIC, act like he was the greatest, and stand behind him 100%, I'd move to North Korea or Iran. I don't agree with what's been done, and I am not a bible-thumper, and I am certainly not a conservative. I am also not an extreme liberal. And I see no reason why I should be 100% supportive. Is your SS going to come after me, and silence me because I don't agree? Are they going to try to make me fit? I have the right to speak, as do you, but this is true in MANY countries, so don't act like it's just the US. And I'd give more credit to the leaders of the past for those rights, not the leaders of today.

And you're saying I need to silence what I feel for the national good. Go spend some time reading about history. The US is not immune from the damage that nationalism plays on any civilization. We can just as easily end up in the pitfalls of history. We have to remember what's happened in the past, and what goes arwy when a leader is not questioned. This country was built by those who were not happy with their government, who wanted new freedoms, and who were willing to stand up and say their mind. What's happened? Obviously, you've become a mindless drone. And mindless drone=/=American.

And the liberal press idea? Give me a break. Travel somewhere else in the country, and the "liberal press" sounds more moderate than you'd like to believe. I think the troops should know the truth, even if it is negative. Why should they be prevented from knowing? Don't you think they have a strong enough conviction to handle the truth? You think they might flee if they do?

And as for voting, I hope Democrats win the majority. I don't like either party really, but I certainly don't like what's been going on in there lately. So I think the Democrats deserve a shot. But I think the reason the Republicans hold such a strong voter turn out: religion. I don't even want to talk about that though, because I have a feeling some people here wouldn't understand the anthropological underpinnings of why it exists, and how it influences the control of a leader over a complex society. Why do you think all political parties try to so hard to win over the religious vote?

But should you support the military? Absolutely! These are guys that are actually standing up, and fighting for something. I think some of them are happy to fight for the current CIC. Others are probably not. But I think they believe that they are protecting "their" America, meaning what they value about home, their views. And I think that makes them more American than most "Americans" here at home.

But you have some dangerous ideals that would silence dissenters and keep the military cut off from the truth of real events. You think those are good ideas???

[h2co-pilot]

Coming from anyone those comments are treasonous and wrong in so many ways, let alone a man that could've been the leader and representive of our country.

You know he is wiping the sweat from his neanderthal like brow. He canceled all of his campaigning schedule for the next couple days.:giggling:

Hey- it promoted more votes for my side.:dancingbanana:

[h2co-pilot]

But should you support the military? Absolutely! These are guys that are actually standing up, and fighting for something.

Yeah- You and everyone else, including John Fairy.

[MarineHawk]

Marines are uber ghey

That is all:giggling:

Yes, as you well know, we all wore pink undies under our camies.

[Vettster]

http://www.ryanholman.com/images/support_our_troops.jpg

X2

They ought to round up Kerry, Jane Fonda and the Dixie Chicks and ship them to Iraq.:D
Who did I leave out?

[CO Hummer]

...some people here wouldn't understand the anthropological underpinnings of why it exists, and how it influences the control of a leader over a complex society....

Haha. That would definitely include YOU.

[h2co-pilot]

X2

They ought to round up Kerry, Jane Fonda and the Dixie Chicks and ship them to Iraq.:D
Who did I leave out?

Sarandon, Garafolo, Robbins, Stewart, Celine Dion (:giggling:) and Aubs n' Dennis.

[PARAGON]

I'm sorry, but that's a highly ignorant viewpoint. Blindly supporting a leader because you're trying to be "patriotic" and "an American". You know what happens when a nation does that, when they're fueled by the idea of a nationalism, blind to whatever injustices might occur along the way? You end up with a situation that none of us want to be in, fascism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism).

You're telling me if I enjoy my freedoms I need to just support the Comander in Chief (CIC) and go along with things? That's BS. If I wanted to praise the CIC, act like he was the greatest, and stand behind him 100%, I'd move to North Korea or Iran. I don't agree with what's been done, and I am not a bible-thumper, and I am certainly not a conservative. I am also not an extreme liberal. And I see no reason why I should be 100% supportive. Is your SS going to come after me, and silence me because I don't agree? Are they going to try to make me fit? I have the right to speak, as do you, but this is true in MANY countries, so don't act like it's just the US. And I'd give more credit to the leaders of the past for those rights, not the leaders of today.

And you're saying I need to silence what I feel for the national good. Go spend some time reading about history. The US is not immune from the damage that nationalism plays on any civilization. We can just as easily end up in the pitfalls of history. We have to remember what's happened in the past, and what goes arwy when a leader is not questioned. This country was built by those who were not happy with their government, who wanted new freedoms, and who were willing to stand up and say their mind. What's happened? Obviously, you've become a mindless drone. And mindless drone=/=American.

And the liberal press idea? Give me a break. Travel somewhere else in the country, and the "liberal press" sounds more moderate than you'd like to believe. I think the troops should know the truth, even if it is negative. Why should they be prevented from knowing? Don't you think they have a strong enough conviction to handle the truth? You think they might flee if they do?

And as for voting, I hope Democrats win the majority. I don't like either party really, but I certainly don't like what's been going on in there lately. So I think the Democrats deserve a shot. But I think the reason the Republicans hold such a strong voter turn out: religion. I don't even want to talk about that though, because I have a feeling some people here wouldn't understand the anthropological underpinnings of why it exists, and how it influences the control of a leader over a complex society. Why do you think all political parties try to so hard to win over the religious vote?

But should you support the military? Absolutely! These are guys that are actually standing up, and fighting for something. I think some of them are happy to fight for the current CIC. Others are probably not. But I think they believe that they are protecting "their" America, meaning what they value about home, their views. And I think that makes them more American than most "Americans" here at home.

But you have some dangerous ideals that would silence dissenters and keep the military cut off from the truth of real events. You think those are good ideas???

You are so f'ing dillusional. The President of the United States does not wield all-mighty powers. There is a balance set forth by the Constitution. The President is as much a Head of State as he is a Commander in Chief and does not get to make unilateral decisions such as going to war.

You are the one that needs to return and read a little history. Comparing our country to any other in the light that the Presidency is a pathway to some sort of Dictatorship is asinine at best. Simply stupid at least.

[GeorgeSSSS]

So....... You must be one of the stupid ones Kerry was referring to.

Dennis:

Look at the facts (hard for you). Any large corporation or organization has a broad distribution of highly educated and not so highly educated. The truth is that the officers and NCOs in the military are more highly educated than the general workforce of NBC, GM, FEDEX -- -- you name it. But no one ever questions the educational credentials of those organizations' employees.

The fact is, Kerry and you don't know what you're talking about.

George SSSS
BA Economics, magna cum laude
Former Lieutenant, US Navy

[PARAGON]

X2

They ought to round up Kerry, Jane Fonda and the Dixie Chicks and ship them to Iraq.:D
Who did I leave out?Aubs?

[PARAGON]

Haha. That would definitely include YOU.So true. So, so true.

[MarineHawk]

I have the right to speak, as do you, but this is true in MANY countries, so don't act like it's just the US. ...

Sure, you have a constitutional right to be stupid. You exercise it well.

After the partial collapse of Europe, around 1919, the U.S. became the leading power in the world. At the time, there were seven democracies on the planet. The U.S. solidified its role as the leader of the world in the 1940s, when it took the world through one of its darkest periods in which 55,000,000 people were murdered. We did this by sacrificing appx 400,000 of our citizens to defeat real tyranny. Over the decades, the U.S. has set up or facilitated the emergence and growth of many of the democracies that currently exist. That's what we are trying to do in Iraq. Succeed or fail, we are trying to replace a brutal butcher with a democratic government. Presently, after decades of the U.S.'s military, economic, and political leadership, there are now more than 100 democracies in the world That would not have happened if the Russians, Chinese, French, Germans, Canadians, Dutch or anyone else had been running the show.

Further, we are the only solitary example in world history of a nation or empire that has had the absolute, virtually uncontested ability to colonize and take territory from others (it would take us about 5 weeks to conquer all of North and South America for example, and no one could do anything about it), which has NOT exercised that power. If I'm wrong give me another example. You can't. We're the good guys.

Blah, blah, blah, ...You end up with a situation that none of us want to be in, fascism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism). ... Is your SS going to come after me, and silence me because I don't agree? Are they going to try to make me fit?

I hear few things more ignorant these days than comparing conservatives or Republicans in this great country to the Nazis. Do they kill millions of our own citizens? Do they terrorize and gas us and make lampshades out of our skin? Just because Mrs.ssippi correctly recognizes your expressed remarks as moronic, it doesn't follow that she is part a movement similar to the one, which, 60 years ago, murdered and humiliated millions of people out of racial hatred and thirst for political power. Criticizing idiotic comments is not comparable to that. To make such a suggestion is just further idiocy.


And mindless drone=/=American. ... I'd move to North Korea or Iran


Do now!

[h2co-pilot]

Dammit, it's a shame the lengths people go thru and who they will sh!t on just for the hope of gay marriage.:rant:

[Grape Ape]

Kerry is just telling the truth.
Feel safe knowing that US troops will be saving your ass if anything ever happens in Canada. A troop of Girl Scouts with sharp sticks could take over your country.
Maybe we only should have fought Japan in World War II in retaliation for attcking us. Wonder what the world would be like today.
Saddam is a modern day Hitler that had to go...period. Do some research.
I dont want to see any of our troops get killed and hope they get home safe soon.
I am proud of our troops and the sacrifice they are making to help make the world a safer place.

[PARAGON]

Kerry Campaign Events Cut as Democrats Criticize Troops' Remark
By Roger Runningen

Nov. 1 (Bloomberg) -- Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts canceled campaign appearances with Democratic congressional candidates in three states after members of his own party criticized his remarks about the Iraq war and U.S. troops.

Kerry won't appear today in Mankato, Minnesota on behalf of Tim Walz, a Democrat challenging Republican Representative Gil Gutknecht. The decision to cancel ``ultimately'' was Kerry's, said Walz spokeswoman Meredith Salsbery.

Bruce Braley, a Democrat running for Iowa's 1st Congressional seat, asked Kerry not to campaign with him tomorrow, the Quad-Cities Times reported. Braley thought Kerry's remarks suggesting people with less education ``get stuck in Iraq'' were inappropriate, the paper said, citing Braley spokesman Jeff Giertz

Kerry also won't appear today in Philadelphia with U.S. Senate candidate Bob Casey, ABC News reported. Casey's race to unseat Republican Rick Santorum in Pennsylvania could be pivotal to Democrats' hopes to gain control of the Senate.

In Montana, Jon Tester, the Democratic challenger to incumbent Senator Republican Senator Conrad Burns, also sought to distance himself from Kerry.

``Senator Kerry's remarks were poorly worded and just plain stupid,'' Tester said in a statement late yesterday. ``He owes our troops and their families an apology.'' President George W. Bush is scheduled to campaign for Burns in Montana tomorrow.

Kerry's spokesman confirmed the senator has canceled the appearances.

``We made a decision not to allow the Republican hate machine to use Democratic House candidates as proxies in their distorted spin war in which once again they're willing to exploit brave American troops,'' David Wade said in a statement. :confused:

`Stuck in Iraq'

Kerry, while campaigning in California Oct. 30 for gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides, said: ``Education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq.''

Bush yesterday accused Kerry of insulting troops in Iraq and said he should apologize. Kerry said Republicans were feigning outrage over a ``botched joke,'' and said Bush ought to apologize for misleading Americans over the war.

The Republican National Committee today rushed out a video clip headlined ``Kerry insults our troops'' with a replay of the senator's remarks.

To contact the reporter on this story: Roger Runningen in Washington at rrunningen@bloomberg.net (rrunningen@bloomberg.net)

[GeorgeSSSS]

Kerry's public appearances have been cancelled because
[Choose one]
(a) He's an embarrassment
(b) He's an embarrassment to the Democrats
(c) He's an embarrassment to America
(d) No one wants to be seen near him
(e) Teresa told him to go stand in the corner and he's still looking for it.
(e) Teresa cut off his allowance
(f) It's time to reload his botox

[Correct answer]: He voted for the war appropriation before he voted against it.

George SSSS

[DennisAJC]

Feel safe knowing that US troops will be saving your ass if anything ever happens in Canada. A troop of Girl Scouts with sharp sticks could take over your country.
Maybe we only should have fought Japan in World War II in retaliation for attcking us. Wonder what the world would be like today.
Saddam is a modern day Hitler that had to go...period. Do some research.
I dont want to see any of our troops get killed and hope they get home safe soon.
I am proud of our troops and the sacrifice they are making to help make the world a safer place.

I am not mocking what your great leaders of past have done to maintain the free world, but you digging up the past noble causes of WWII and comparing them with blunders like Iraq are just stupid.

Understandable if you guys were making a safer world by beating the shyt out of North Korea(Which is a pathetic diplomatic posture). That is a noble cause. This maneuver has made the USA look weak(Pick on the weaker and totally avoid the guy that has the muscle.) by side stepping North Korea.

Soldiers dying in a third world country proven incapable of hurting the USA??? We all know it's all for the oil now. The excuses have run out. If you call that a noble cause, Well I guess we better add sheep to it's definition.

And yes. The majority of your military are burger flippers and getto kids using another avenue towards personal advancement.

Without the draft, the illiterate is the next best scource.

How can you sit there and use the word "PATRIOTISM" when there is a clear division in your country?

[DRTYFN]

Canadians shouldn't be trolling about anything until they cut the umbilical cord with England.:OWNED:

[MarineHawk]

(Pick on the weaker and totally avoid the guy that has the muscle.) by side stepping North Korea.


Who is the head of state who repeatedly invaded other nations and lost out of his insane sense of invulnerability? Jim Jong? No. Kim Jong went into hiding for 59 days beginning in March 2003. Unlike Saddam, Jong does, though his bubble is a little off center, obey the laws of deterence, just like most of our potential enemies have, e.g. the USSR, over the years. Another important question? Who are the only two world leaders who have used WMD (and by that, I mean nuclear, chemicial, or biological weapons) since 1918? There are only two. Who? Kim Jong? No. Only Harry and Saddam (some on his own people no less). Saddam's the really crazy one. Make sense now?

... And yes. The majority of your military are burger flippers and getto kids using another avenue towards personal advancement.


You truly don't know what you are talking about. Again, how many of U.S. enlisted servicemen have you personally met? Or do you not need first-hand information to reach such a brilliant conclusion? You're too smart to need actual information before you condemn a giant group comprising more than a million people. Aren't you?

[deserth3]

DennisAJC, North Korea has China helping the world keep an eye on their sorry butt. The ONLY reason why North Korea still excists is because of China and China lost a lot of people making it that way. But China no longer wants a war. Because if the U.S. stopped buying goods from there, Chinas economy would take a dive.

There's a couple of facts that you seem to have forgotten about Iraq...
1. The U.N inspectors said Sadam had Weapons of mass destruction. They said they would go into a site and all they saw were tire tracks. That is until after tha war started.
2. Sadams Generals said he had weapons of mass destruction.
3. All Sadam had to do was let inspectors into these sites without delaying them or kicking them out of the country and he'd still be in power.

Now I don't know if these weapons excisted. For me it's a mute point. That's a big desert. And it would be easy to hide that stuff. There are also several surounding nations that would have happily taken the stuff.

ONe more thing and I'll go back to the side lines... Our president did have an exit stratagy. Go in, get Sadam out of power, let the Iraq people make a new government, get out... That is a strategy... What failed is not the U.S. President, not the U.S. goverment, not the U.S. military.
What failed was the Iraqi people. That's where the failure lies. But that could lead to another aurgument.

[h2co-pilot]

I am not mocking what your great leaders of past have done to maintain the free world Keep free in mind for a moment, but you digging up the past noble causes of WWII and comparing them with blunders like Iraq are just stupid. You're right Jihad is no concern.:rolleyes:

Understandable if you guys were making a safer world by beating the shyt out of North Korea(Which is a pathetic diplomatic posture). That is a noble cause. This maneuver has made the USA look weak(Pick on the weaker and totally avoid the guy that has the muscle.) by side stepping North Korea. We are going through the same diplomat process as we did with Iraq. If we go in right now we would be criticized also, no? Why don't you ask your own government to do something?

Soldiers dying in a third world country proven incapable of hurting the USA??? 9/11/01, Assumed WMD-sound familiar. We all know it's all for the oil now.Give me a break. The excuses have run out. If you call that a noble cause, Well I guess we better add sheep to it's definition.

And yes. The majority of your military are burger flippers and getto kids using another avenue towards personal advancement. Nice.

Without the draft, the illiterate is the next best "scource". IRONIC AS A MOFO.

How can you sit there and use the word "PATRIOTISM" when there is a clear division in your country?

SUCK A DICK DENNIS!

[PARAGON]

Without the draft, the illiterate is the next best "scource". IRONIC AS A MOFO.

SUCK A DICK DENNIS!

:giggling: :OWNED:

[Grape Ape]

I am not mocking what your great leaders of past have done to maintain the free world, but you digging up the past noble causes of WWII and comparing them with blunders like Iraq are just stupid.

Understandable if you guys were making a safer world by beating the shyt out of North Korea(Which is a pathetic diplomatic posture). That is a noble cause. This maneuver has made the USA look weak(Pick on the weaker and totally avoid the guy that has the muscle.) by side stepping North Korea.

Soldiers dying in a third world country proven incapable of hurting the USA??? We all know it's all for the oil now. The excuses have run out. If you call that a noble cause, Well I guess we better add sheep to it's definition.

And yes. The majority of your military are burger flippers and getto kids using another avenue towards personal advancement.

Without the draft, the illiterate is the next best scource.

How can you sit there and use the word "PATRIOTISM" when there is a clear division in your country?
Didnt Saddam invade a "weaker" Kuwait? Maybe Canadian TV censored the mass graves and interviews with Iraqi families who have had their fathers "disappear" because they said something against Saddam? Miss the gas attacks against the Kurds? Maybe it is easy to turn a blind eye to what does not directly affect you. A lot of other people obviously dont see it your way. The US is the "big brother" of the world and you benefit from it.
The blood for oil theory is a bunch of hippie liberal crap. I am sure some freaks criticized FDR back in the day. They just didnt have the balls to say it in public. Sometimes unpopular things have to be done for the better good.
Enjoy life in your bubble...crack a Molsons and fire up some BC bud.

[DennisAJC]

DennisAJC, North Korea has China helping the world keep an eye on their sorry butt. The ONLY reason why North Korea still excists is because of China and China lost a lot of people making it that way. But China no longer wants a war. Because if the U.S. stopped buying goods from there, Chinas economy would take a dive. I agree with you there.

There's a couple of facts that you seem to have forgotten about Iraq...
1. The U.N inspectors said Sadam had Weapons of mass destruction. They said they would go into a site and all they saw were tire tracks. That is until after tha war started. You can't suggest all this was based on an assesment of tire tracks?
2. Sadams Generals said he had weapons of mass destruction. Believing what the enemy tells you means you've been PUNK'D by propaganda.:D
3. All Sadam had to do was let inspectors into these sites without delaying them or kicking them out of the country and he'd still be in power. But now he's out. Job done. Then what?

Now I don't know if these weapons excisted. For me it's a mute point. That's a big desert. And it would be easy to hide that stuff. There are also several surounding nations that would have happily taken the stuff. Ya, like Syria. Why waste time looking for milk in the bathroom when it's in the kitchen?

ONe more thing and I'll go back to the side lines... Our president did have an exit stratagy. Go in, get Sadam out of power DONE (Job well done), let the Iraq people make a new government Close enough, get out... That is a strategy... What failed is not the U.S. President Can't agree with you on that., not the U.S. goverment, not the U.S. military.
What failed was the Iraqi people. That's where the failure lies. But that could lead to another aurgument.That could be a new but interesting argument there. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. It's like someone forcing you to pray to Allah instead of God. It'll never happen. Like a parent, you pray you've done your best. But the rest is up to them.

.

[GeorgeSSSS]

Everyone knows I'm a proud veteran, but maybe Kerry was right.

[KenP]

Kerry's public appearances have been cancelled because
[Choose one]
(a) He's an embarrassment
(b) He's an embarrassment to the Democrats
(c) He's an embarrassment to America
(d) No one wants to be seen near him
(e) Teresa told him to go stand in the corner and he's still looking for it.
(e) Teresa cut off his allowance
(f) It's time to reload his botox

[Correct answer]: He voted for the war appropriation before he voted against it.

George SSSSI"ve been laughing all morning!!!!

[PARAGON]

You can't teach an old dog new tricks. It's like someone forcing you to pray to Allah instead of God. It'll never happen. Like a parent, you pray you've done your best. But the rest is up to them.That's just not true.

If it were, it would be useless to attempt to help other countries better themselves. To help other people better themselves.

Hell, at one time, people thought Zeus threw lightning bolts at them and they were pretty old.:popcorn:

[PARAGON]

Watch this video and then argue in favor of Kerry's words

Some of the "dumb" Armed Forces members (http://downloads.instream.com/servlets/getPlaylist?ver=2.0&nwid=11375&content=http%3a%2f%2fimages.military.com%2fVideo%2 f061023_numb.wmv&format=Video-Windows-300-320x240&level=Military+Advantage%3aMilitary.com&audit=param&mswmext=.asx)

[KenP]

Nope, not gonna watch it. I can see it all day on the news.:popcorn: :clapping: :popcorn:

[PARAGON]

Nope, not gonna watch it. I can see it all day on the news.:popcorn: :clapping: :popcorn:It's not what you think it is..... at all.

There is nothing about John Kerry in it. Just American Heroes.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

This is a good debate. I see good points all around and some I disagree with, and that's cool. I love that we can disagree with the politicians and not get arrested, kidnapped or put on a death list.

That's the best thing about America ... we're free to think what we want and speak our mind. We can consider all sides of an issue and make our own decisions with information from a variety of sources. It's our right and responsibility to listen to different points of view and agree or disagree as we see fit.

But to oppress or ban opposing viewpoints is the road to totalitarianism. Dictatorships are full of blind, obedient patriotic citizens who don't think for themselves, use only one source of information and follow a single-minded ideology. That path leads to the antithesis of democracy and freedom - fascism, jihad, and crusade.

There's a difference between "majority rules" and "might makes right". Even within a democracy, when people blindly follow their leaders, their party or their own ideology, they disrespect what democracy exists for. Ultimately, although the US was founded with a political structure of checks, balances and democracy, it's only as democratic as the people who think for themselves, stay informed, consider opposing viewpoints, make up their own mind and vote their own conscience. Anything else is the slippery slope toward totalitarianism.

[h2co-pilot]

Watch this video and then argue in favor of Kerry's words

Some of the "dumb" Armed Forces members (http://downloads.instream.com/servlets/getPlaylist?ver=2.0&nwid=11375&content=http%3a%2f%2fimages.military.com%2fVideo%2 f061023_numb.wmv&format=Video-Windows-300-320x240&level=Military+Advantage%3aMilitary.com&audit=param&mswmext=.asx)


Even Kerry is saying that he did not mean it in that way, tho some here defend in how it was interpretted at first.

Time to apologize Mr. Heinz. :popcorn:

[DennisAJC]

Kerry has served his country.

He has experienced war and seen death at ground level (Not at 30,000 feet).

Therefore he has a right to his views.

He does not need to apologize IMO.

[PARAGON]

Kerry has served his country.

He has experienced war and seen death at ground level (Not at 30,000 feet).

Therefore he has a right to his views.

He does not need to apologize IMO.No, he doesn't. He needs to shut the **** up and resign his senatorship.

[GeorgeSSSS]

No, he doesn't. He needs to shut the **** up and resign his senatorship.
x10

[CO Hummer]

I think you guys are making too much of Kerry's "intentions" and "opinions". The guy is an idiot. He never expressess any form of REAL opinion. He is 101% driven to say only what he thinks will get him votes or make him popular. He has NO depth at all, not even a trace amount. He is simply a monitor-the-polls-and-react idiot. The fact that he's incompetent is demonstrated by his continual "oopsies" like this one.

[PARAGON]

I think you guys are making too much of Kerry's "intentions" and "opinions". The guy is an idiot. He never expressess any form of REAL opinion. He is 101% driven to say only what he thinks will get him votes or make him popular. He has NO depth at all, not even a trace amount. He is simply a monitor-the-polls-and-react idiot. The fact that he's incompetent is demonstrated by his continual "oopsies" like this one.

I agree wholeheartedly. Problem is that he was the Presidential nominee and is considered the leader for the Democratic Party. Notwithstanding that, he is also currently a United States Senator. By denigrating the Military of which he owes most of his political power to, he should cast some serious doubt upon the party as whole on just what is important. Polls or lives.

[Scouts Out]

you need to read his own notes about his service, first he presented himself as a hero making sure he got all the fun medals and his guys who were with him got Jack, then he decided he wanted to be a democrat so he became a war criminal who shot unarmed civilians , then when they threatened to charge him so he claimed he was a war criminal not for shooting civilians but for using a M2 (.50 cal) on dismounts, and as the Geneva Convetion says any good military officer or NCO will tell you has never been illegal. Then he decided he want to be president he want to be a decorated veteran.

He is a Jack ass, but our jack ass so you need to move to the US and vote if you want to support him or other wise state you opinion, we will say "oh that is good you have and opion" and lets move on to Quebec's efforts for independence.

Mean while he is no more a grunt than a pilot is as he rode up and down the river on his fast boat. He never dismounted, he never partolled on foot thru the night in the jungle. Swift boats were a tough job, a very honorable MOS but he went home each night as the infantryman slept day and weeks in the field

I am a Cavalryman and do alot of the same stuff as the infantry man but no one will every experience what they deal with day and night so I never would place myself, after 2 tours, in the same categoory as them.

Kerry was a politiciaan even when in the service, he was looking for medals and a resume booster while in.

[KenP]

That track of him is going to be playing full time on Al-Jazeera, emboldening the insurgents.:mad: :mad: :mad:

[MarineHawk]

... But to oppress or ban opposing viewpoints is the road to totalitarianism. Dictatorships are full of blind, obedient patriotic citizens who don't think for themselves, use only one source of information and follow a single-minded ideology. That path leads to the antithesis of democracy and freedom - fascism, jihad, and crusade.

There's a difference between "majority rules" and "might makes right". Even within a democracy, when people blindly follow their leaders, their party or their own ideology, they disrespect what democracy exists for. Ultimately, although the US was founded with a political structure of checks, balances and democracy, it's only as democratic as the people who think for themselves, stay informed, consider opposing viewpoints, make up their own mind and vote their own conscience. Anything else is the slippery slope toward totalitarianism.

This is such crap. Just because we disagree with the lefties who ARE NOT in the White House, and instead agree on many issues with our President, doesn't mean that we are "blind, obedient patriotic citizens who don't think for themselves." I, and I assume most who agree with Bush's foreign policy, have thought their opinions through very carefully and intelligently. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean that we are "people blindly follow their leaders, their party or their own ideology."

By the way: That arrogant (yet oddly stupid) theory is mostly unique to the liberal/Democrat crowd. When Clinton was in office, many conservatives dramatically disagreed with his policies and his followers. Nevertheless, I can't recall any significant number of conservatives moronically claiming that the liberals were heading us to Dictatorship because they were “blindly following” the man. We just disagreed with them and said so. It’s a poor substitute for a real argument to simply accuse people who don’t accept your views as “oppressors.”

By the way #2: The slippery slope argument is one of the most overused, overextended metaphors. Success in life is basically all about moderation and focus. The former concept defies the slippery slope concept altogether. It can be applied to anything, and usually is in a paranoid result-oriented manner:

- If we ban porn in the elementary schools, pretty soon, they’ll be coming after our political speech.

- If someone criticizes my venomous attacks on President Bush, they will soon be sending me to a concentration camp.

Slippery slopes are not that slippery.

For example, most people, including me, condemn the Japanese internments. But you cannot make a case that it paved the way for other such transgressions. If it set any precedent at all it set trends in the opposite direction. In 1988, the United States Congress formally apologized for the internment and appropriated money to compensate the 60,000 survivors. The same thing holds true for pretty much every such civil-liberties "outrage" in American history. Habeas corpus was reinstated after the Civil War and, over the next 150 year, became an even stricter legal standard. After all of the revelations of the 1960s and 1970s about wiretaps and secret files, Congress made it more, not less, difficult to abuse the civil rights of citizens.

This exposes the main flaw with slippery-slope arguments. Much like conspiracy theories, they reflect more imagination and less hard thinking than usually required. When we go "too far" one way, we are more likely to swing back the other way than to keep sliding in the wrong direction. It's called the law of unintended consequences. FDR may have been right or wrong when he used military tribunal for icing a few Nazi spies, but that's a stand-alone argument; it didn't launch any long-term authoritarian trend.

So, if you're going to get mad when people reject your attacks on our President or even your “mindless following” of Ted Kennedy,” that's perfectly legitimate. But please bring something more to the table than a slippery-slope argument — because we've been sliding uphill for more than two centuries.

[PARAGON]

Much like conspiracy theories, they reflect more imagination and less hard thinking than usually required. Could this be why so many artistic types are liberal....... hmmm.:giggling:





MH, instead of the Marine Corps, you should have gone to law school and sought the attorney's path and not the loser military path. As a Marine, you make a very convincing counselor.;)

[MarineHawk]

Could this be why so many artistic types are liberal....... hmmm.:giggling:
MH, instead of the Marine Corps, you should have gone to law school and sought the attorney's path and not the loser military path. As a Marine, you make a very convincing counselor.;)

You know, I thought about it, but as a Lance Corporal in the Corps in 1990, I quickly grew to realize that my mild retardation would never permit me even to get a GED, much less a law degree. Now, I'm stuck in Iraq with all those other mentally and morally inferior types. :confused:

[Mr. I - Man]

You know, I thought about it, but as a Lance Corporal in the Corps in 1990, I quickly grew to realize that my mild retardation would never permit me even to get a GED, much less a law degree. Now, I'm stuck in Iraq with all those other mentally and morally inferior types. :confused:

:iagree:

I would have been stuck in Iraq as well, but I was late and missed the yellow short bus that morning.:fdance:

[PARAGON]

You know, I thought about it, but as a Lance Corporal in the Corps in 1990, I quickly grew to realize that my mild retardation would never permit me even to get a GED, much less a law degree. Now, I'm stuck in Iraq with all those other mentally and morally inferior types. :confused:Wow, did you go through MCRDPI? If so, when and what platoon?

[wpage]

Both Kerry and Murtha need to spend a night sleeping out on the ground wondering if someone is going to kill them while they slumber. Evidently they have forgotten thier bretheren in arms.
The Jihadists are loving it!
Being in the line of fire is no joke!

[Wisha Haddan H3]

This is such crap. Just because we disagree with the lefties who ARE NOT in the White House, and instead agree on many issues with our President, doesn't mean that we are "blind, obedient patriotic citizens who don't think for themselves." I, and I assume most who agree with Bush's foreign policy, have thought their opinions through very carefully and intelligently. Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean that we are "people blindly follow their leaders, their party or their own ideology."

I see your point MarineHawk. I didn't say that everyone who agrees with the current administration is blind or hasn't thought it through, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I meant that too many political activists (on both the right and left) are uninformed followers who don't think for themselves but are all too willing to shut down any other point of view.

I also didn't say (or mean) that the GOP is leading us down the road to totalitarianism. It's not one party or the other that flushes democracy down the toilet ... it's disrespect for differing points of view and refusal to seek common ground. It doesn't matter how much I disagree with someone, I love a well-spoken rational argument because there's always something new to learn or consider. Whether I change my mind or not, I'm better off because I've thought about an issue in a new way.

True, the "slippery slope" is an overused metaphor. In this context, I am saying that anyone who thinks they are infallibly right and refuses to hear other points of view (because "all liberals are commies" or "all conservatives are nazis") is on dangerous ground. When this happens in politics (right or left) and the opposition is silenced, it can lead to totalitarianism.

The best way to preserve democracy and find workable compromise is to examine opposing points of view. It allows us to see all sides of an issue and reminds us that we don't know everything. If we unilaterally shut down everyone who disagrees with us regardless of their reasoning or politics, we are opposing the nature of democracy.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

btw, I haven't attacked the President and I'm not angry about anything. and I already posted that Kerry was wrong for saying that about the troops.

[KenP]

It's not what you think it is..... at all.

There is nothing about John Kerry in it. Just American Heroes.:perfect10s: :perfect10s: :perfect10s:

[MarineHawk]

Wow, did you go through MCRDPI? If so, when and what platoon?

Sand Diego (didn't have to deal with all of the sand fleas). March-July 1990. Mike Company for the first 2-1/2 months until i broke my 3rd metatarsal in my left foot, which sent me to MRP for 4-1/2 weeks, then back out to India Company. I can't remember which platoons in Mike and India. Suffice it to say it was either First, Second, or Third. When I went in, I consoled my mother: "Don't worry, they haven't deployed the Marine Reserves in wartime since 1945."

[MarineHawk]

I see your point MarineHawk. I didn't say that everyone who agrees with the current administration is blind or hasn't thought it through, and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I meant that too many political activists (on both the right and left) are uninformed followers who don't think for themselves but are all too willing to shut down any other point of view.

I also didn't say (or mean) that the GOP is leading us down the road to totalitarianism. It's not one party or the other that flushes democracy down the toilet ... it's disrespect for differing points of view and refusal to seek common ground. It doesn't matter how much I disagree with someone, I love a well-spoken rational argument because there's always something new to learn or consider. Whether I change my mind or not, I'm better off because I've thought about an issue in a new way.

True, the "slippery slope" is an overused metaphor. In this context, I am saying that anyone who thinks they are infallibly right and refuses to hear other points of view (because "all liberals are commies" or "all conservatives are nazis") is on dangerous ground. When this happens in politics (right or left) and the opposition is silenced, it can lead to totalitarianism.

The best way to preserve democracy and find workable compromise is to examine opposing points of view. It allows us to see all sides of an issue and reminds us that we don't know everything. If we unilaterally shut down everyone who disagrees with us regardless of their reasoning or politics, we are opposing the nature of democracy.

Fair enough. From my own perspective though, I believe that, when our country goes to war, for those who really care about our troops and/or about the security of our nation, it's the time when we most need to give our C-in-C the most support at least on that mission.

I assume most of the people who are attacking Bush in these circumstances don't realize what damage they are doing. I also assume that, if they did, some of them might stop.

One of the few real similarities between this war and Vietnam is that the enemy(ies) are very much encouraged by our internal divisiveness brought on by the left. This helps their morale, makes them braver and more hopeful. It also hurts our troops’ morale. Morale in combat really is one of the few most important variables in determining outcome and how many of one side’s troops live or die or get injured. This is why the idea of supporting the troops but deriding the mission does not work. No Soldier, Marine, Sailor, or Airman wants to risk his or her life to fight and win a stupid, evil war. I experienced this first hand. In 1991, our morale, and thus our combat effectiveness, was extremely high, mostly because the nation was, with the exception of a very small minority, very united behind the mission. This really fueled our ability to deal with hardship and fear. We believed we were fighting for something important. Once enough citizens start saying (ultimately to our troops) that their mission is stupid, you kill their morale, and ultimately make their job much more difficult and deadly.

I'm not partisan on this issue. I thought that the GOP's worst hour since Watergate was in April 1999, when only a few Republicans would just come out and unequivocally support the war in Kosovo. Most of them were playing politics and stating the same old "support the troops, but not necessarily the mission" crap. McCain (who I'm not terribly fond of as a politician) was to his credit one of the exceptions. As much as I really hated Clinton, I just wanted the GOP to say, on Kosovo, we support you without qualification whether or not we would have made the same decision. The failure to do so back then was compounded by the fact that we had a weak President, who, out of fear of unpopularity, actually told our enemies that we would not use ground troops under any circumstances—thus iolating one of the most basic rules of warfare--don't tell your enemies your limitations. If Clinton, having no intention of using them, had deployed two armored divisions in Macedonia, before he began the bombing. Milosevic would have caved in five minutes. Perhaps Clinton would have done this if he had had a blank check from the GOP. It would have made us stronger and our troops safer.

The same is true now, except that the consequences are much, much more severe. If we lose in Iraq, we're screwed. If we win, al Qaeda is screwed. Reasonable minds can differ on whether or not we should have gone into Kosovo or Iraq, but neither one are evil wars whereby we are slaughtering innocent people for our own gain. There are, at least, legitimate reasons for both campaigns. Thus, there’s no reason to believe that, by supporting those either of those wars (or at least not attacking our C-in-C) that we are facilitating the path toward an evil Hitlerian state. It just means we will win the war more quickly. It really has an effect. The growing dissension on this war is simply encouraging our enemies and weakening our forces. It's bad for the country. Sure, anyone who wants to attack Bush on the war has the right to do so. I just think it’s not necessarily wise to exercise that right no venomously. Even worse, few Dems will ever concede that, of which I am convinced (partly because I agree with him), that Bush thinks he’s doing the right thing and that then simply disagree with his policies. Instead, they accuse him of all kinds of evil motives. This makes any constructive debate impossible.

I wish the Dems would just say: "Bush we disagree with every domestic decision you have ever made, but we will support you in this war [that they voted for when it was in their political interests] and will help you win it as quickly and decisively as possible." It's what the GOP should have done in 1999, and it's what the Dems should do now. As a byproduct, if they had been taking this posture, IMO, they would have won a lot more elections in the last few years.

[PARAGON]

Fair enough. From my own perspective though, I believe that, when our country goes to war, for those who really care about our troops and/or about the security of our nation, it's the time when we most need to give our C-in-C the most support at least on that mission.

I assume most of the people who are attacking Bush in these circumstances don't realize what damage they are doing. I also assume that, if they did, some of them might stop.

One of the few real similarities between this war and Vietnam is that the enemy(ies) are very much encouraged by our internal divisiveness brought on by the left. This helps their morale, makes them braver and more hopeful. It also hurts our troops’ morale. Morale in combat really is one of the few most important variables in determining outcome and how many of one side’s troops live or die or get injured. This is why the idea of supporting the troops but deriding the mission does not work. No Soldier, Marine, Sailor, or Airman wants to risk his or her life to fight and win a stupid, evil war. I experienced this first hand. In 1991, our morale, and thus our combat effectiveness, was extremely high, mostly because the nation was, with the exception of a very small minority, very united behind the mission. This really fueled our ability to deal with hardship and fear. We believed we were fighting for something important. Once enough citizens start saying (ultimately to our troops) that their mission is stupid, you kill their morale, and ultimately make their job much more difficult and deadly.

I'm not partisan on this issue. I thought that the GOP's worst hour since Watergate was in April 1999, when only a few Republicans would just come out and unequivocally support the war in Kosovo. Most of them were playing politics and stating the same old "support the troops, but not necessarily the mission" crap. McCain (who I'm not terribly fond of as a politician) was to his credit one of the exceptions. As much as I really hated Clinton, I just wanted the GOP to say, on Kosovo, we support you without qualification whether or not we would have made the same decision. The failure to do so back then was compounded by the fact that we had a weak President, who, out of fear of unpopularity, actually told our enemies that we would not use ground troops under any circumstances—thus iolating one of the most basic rules of warfare--don't tell your enemies your limitations. If Clinton, having no intention of using them, had deployed two armored divisions in Macedonia, before he began the bombing. Milosevic would have caved in five minutes. Perhaps Clinton would have done this if he had had a blank check from the GOP. It would have made us stronger and our troops safer.

The same is true now, except that the consequences are much, much more severe. If we lose in Iraq, we're screwed. If we win, al Qaeda is screwed. Reasonable minds can differ on whether or not we should have gone into Kosovo or Iraq, but neither one are evil wars whereby we are slaughtering innocent people for our own gain. There are, at least, legitimate reasons for both campaigns. Thus, there’s no reason to believe that, by supporting those either of those wars (or at least not attacking our C-in-C) that we are facilitating the path toward an evil Hitlerian state. It just means we will win the war more quickly. It really has an effect. The growing dissension on this war is simply encouraging our enemies and weakening our forces. It's bad for the country. Sure, anyone who wants to attack Bush on the war has the right to do so. I just think it’s not necessarily wise to exercise that right no venomously. Even worse, few Dems will ever concede that, of which I am convinced (partly because I agree with him), that Bush thinks he’s doing the right thing and that then simply disagree with his policies. Instead, they accuse him of all kinds of evil motives. This makes any constructive debate impossible.

I wish the Dems would just say: "Bush we disagree with every domestic decision you have ever made, but we will support you in this war [that they voted for when it was in their political interests] and will help you win it as quickly and decisively as possible." It's what the GOP should have done in 1999, and it's what the Dems should do now. As a byproduct, if they had been taking this posture, IMO, they would have won a lot more elections in the last few years.x2:giggling:

Very well said.


Also,

It's not a matter of want to silence. It's a matter of one should have respect to silence one's own self out of respect of the men and women, not only in combat, but those supporting them and those that are their family and friends.

I still hold that it is a hugely bold and at the same time ignorant stance to assume one has the knowledge to properly voice their dissention to something as large as war. We elect officials to make decisions that are important for the welfare of our country. They make those decisions based on information that only they have at the time and we, as citizens do not deserve to receive as it will undermine security. For one to assume you can intelligently argue the rights and wrongs of entering and/or the direction of a war without real facts, is simply zealous to the point that one's own words become more important that the actual facts.

This is what's happening with all of the war dissenters. Not only do they have short-term memory loss, they are jumping to conclusions without any real facts and doing that in the media. This in turn gets blasted in front of the troops, their family and friends and it undermines moral. It gets shown all over the enemy's airwaves and emboldens them because they realize all they have to do is make it costly, not win the war, just make it costly and the US will leave when the next election comes. That's the way it worked before.

[h2co-pilot]

"The Paper Tiger"

“After leaving Afghanistan, the Muslim fighters headed for Somalia and prepared for a long battle thinking that the Americans were like the Russians. The youth were surprised at the low morale of the American soldiers and realized, more than before, that the American soldier was a paper tiger and after a few blows……would run in defeat.”

"We have seen in the last decade the decline of American power and the weakness of the American soldier who is ready to wage Cold Wars, but unprepared to fight long wars. This was proven in Beirut in 1983 when the Marines fled after two explosions. It also proves they can run in less than 24 hours, and this was also repeated in Somalia (in 1993)."

- Osama Bin Laden in the 90's

[MarineHawk]

Similarly, in his 1996 Ladenese Epistle Fatwa, bin Laden stated:

... Few days ago the news agencies had reported that the Defence Secretary of the Crusading Americans had said that "the explosion at Riyadh and Al-Khobar had taught him one lesson: that is not to withdraw when attacked by coward terrorists".
We say to the Defence Secretary that his talk can induce a grieving mother to laughter! and shows the fears that had enshrined you all. Where was this false courage of yours when the explosion in Beirut took place on 1983 AD (1403 A.H). You were turned into scattered pits and pieces at that time; 241 mainly marines solders were killed. And where was this courage of yours when two explosions made you to leave Aden in lees than twenty four hours!
But your most disgraceful case was in Somalia; where- after vigorous propaganda about the power of the USA and its post cold war leadership of the new world order-you moved tens of thousands of international force, including twenty eight thousands American solders into Somalia. However, when tens of your solders were killed in minor battles and one American Pilot was dragged in the streets of Mogadishu you left the area carrying disappointment, humiliation, defeat and your dead with you. Clinton appeared in front of the whole world threatening and promising revenge , but these threats were merely a preparation for withdrawal. You have been disgraced by Allah and you withdrew; the extent of your impotence and weaknesses became very clear. ...

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/terrorism/international/fatwa_1996.html

Same is true now, if he hadn't fought in Iraq or if we allow ourselves to be defeated, we will be facing encouraged, stronger Islamic extremist enemies for many years to come. Now (actually, it was years ago) is the time to come together, unite and finish this war with a win.

[GeorgeSSSS]

John Kerry is the only American military member to ever have part of an enemy's military museum dedicated to him. The Vietnamese military museum in Hanoi has a section dedicated to Kerry and Jane Fonda explaining how they helped (then) North Vietnam prevail by damaging morale in the U.S. The Tet offensive was a military disaster for the North, but Kerry and Fonda (with the help of Walter Cronkite) turned it into a success by convincing people that the fact it was tried meant North Vietnam was invincible. If you think I'm making that up, check it out for yourself.

Kerry is a traitor, elitist, and gigolo.

And now he's at it again.

[PARAGON]

And now he's at it again.Those Marines are too dumb to have a sense of humor like that;)

[partsguy]

:popcorn: Nothing better to do...........tenden injury(from treat or tricking)

Go on.

[KenP]

Kerry smacked the military when he got out. He smacks it now, while we're at war again. And he wants to be president.

WTF would our military be like with HIM as Commander in Chief?!?!:mad:

[GeorgeSSSS]

Kerry smacked the military when he got out. He smacks it now, while we're at war again. And he wants to be president.

WTF would our military be like with HIM as Commander in Chief?!?!:mad:

They'd be fighting wars "more sensitively" (his words).
:lame:

Kumbia

George SSSS

[The Green Lantern]

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well. And if you don't, you get stuck in Iraq."




:dancingbanana: :dancingbanana:

[Star Jones]

I luv jon kary. He can keep miz homo donkgangsta outa da bighouse cuz he liks da litel boiz an gets um to were man capri gaygeer an hold da handels. Hes grodygay gross wit da poopdic.

[BlueHUMMERH2]

Amazing how divided the group is on here. Yet we all drive the same vehicles. MJF, and now this issue.

I still think Kerry is an idiot. So was Dean, and Al Gore. But I think the same about their competitors.

I think I was trying to get at the point that if you deny what's happening in the country around you for the "greater good", then this country as we know it is doomed. If you choose to be quiet rather than speak, then who's going to change anything? I don't think anyone should be quiet "for the sake of the troops". That's a strange arguement, because they should know how the people they're fighting for feel. I agree, if they hear only positives, of course the morale will stay up, and that's good for them. That's a winning strategy for sure. But they should know why they're there, in their hearts, and what they're fighting for. If they don't know that, then why did they sign up in the first place? For income? For college? And then Iraq came around, and they got screwed? If you think the news from home would sway their commitment, then you really have a lot to say about the integrity of our troops, don't you?

Certainly Marinehawk, comparing today's events to those of WWII is far-fetched. I merely wished to make the point about facism, and where it comes from. Do I think we'll get there? I don't know. Will our society collapse in 50 years? Some anthropolgists think so. But using military history will always provide the answer that might is right, because only the victorious write the "facts". There is more to culture than militarism however.

I think WWII had a very clear enemy, and it was more B&W. Today, things aren't so clear anymore. And that makes it difficult for some people to figure out what we're doing in the world today and why. Who is evil? What is evil? We're not fighting against a nation, we're fighting against a group of individuals that share a common ideal. They're everywhere. And I think that makes the wars of today far more complicated than some of those in the past.

I'm not trying to be mean here. I'm just stating my opinion. But I get very little respect here anyway, and hardly anyone likes me, so I really don't care what anyone thinks of what I say at this point. I'll continue to post here just the same.

I'm not a liberal extremist, and I'm not a conservative. I'm a moderate liberal. Do I think we need to/should be in Iraq? I am not sure. Do we need to win? YES. I have great respect for the service of our veterans. And I am surprised at how many come out as supporters of war, and how many disagree with such tragedy and death. This war in Iraq is a tragedy, and it has nothing to do with terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. Because we didn't find the latter, and we certainly aren't eliminating the former.

My grandfather is the only member of my family to serve, drafted in WWII. He was sent to Japan following their surrender. His opinion is now completely against violence and the current war. My g/f is a National Guard member. She's a medic. She doesn't like the CIC, and is not happy with what's going on in Iraq, nor are her friends. So I am not isolated from this issue.

[h2co-pilot]

Maybe this would be helpful:

http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html


(Sokay to hover, it's not meatspin. I relish in your disappointment.:D)

[The Green Lantern]

"You know, education, if you make the most of it, you study hard, you do your homework and you make an effort to be smart, you can do well and afford to buy a Hummer H1. And if you don't, you get stuck in the mud."


:giggling:

[Hmmm2]

Fcuk you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

You worthless fcuk!! You have no idea. How many U.S. Marine officers or enlisted have you been around? I went to the Gulf War with a regiment of Marines that blew me away with their level of competence, integrity, intelligence, and diligence. Far, far in excess of any other professional group I have ever encountered before or since. In 1991, when my reserve regiment (the 24th) left, more than 50% of the regiment's enlisted had more than two years of college experience. The vast majority of those were were progressing to degrees. Yet they decided to enlist nonetheless, in the Marines, who offered the least college benefits of any service. Why? Because, although most were intelligent and competent, they wanted, for at least a brief period, to do something more meaningful and important to history than just taking the easiest path to the most money. What have you done for the world Dennis that was not in your own self interest?

Even by your own shallow standards, the Marines have done pretty well. I don't know what the percentages are today, but, in 1990, more than 20% of the U.S. Congressmen and Senators and C.E.O.s of the Fortune 500 companies were former Marines. Granted these people might not be up to your lofty caliber, but they did okay. I can only assume that the other U.S. Services are similarly filled with exceptionalism. And I assume it's even better today than in 1990. You simply don't know what you are talking about. These guys are smart, hard-working, dedicated, brave, and they are doing something more valuable than almost anyone else I am aware of is doing. They are heros. They really are.

I lost my brother who was in the Marines during the Vietnam era. He never made it home. He was in college .. soon to graduate .. then chose to ENLIST (no, he wasn't drafted)...and decided to finish up the few credits to get his degree after he completed his enlistment period. My dad is a West Point graduate who served with the U.S. Army in Army Intelligence during WWII. I agree with MarineHawk.Those who have served are more than sensitive when it comes to statements as made by people like Kerry. I think it's fair to comment on Kerry's statement, but, everything else is like treading on thin ice. Especially when it comes to bashing the U.S. military when some of the members here commenting aren't even U.S. citizens. That's an insult.

[BlueHUMMERH2]

Maybe this would be helpful:

http://www.self-gov.org/quiz.html


(Sokay to hover, it's not meatspin. I relish in your disappointment.:D)

Your point?

ACCORDING TO YOUR ANSWERS,

The political description that
fits you best is...

CENTRIST

CENTRISTS espouse a "middle ground" regarding government
control of the economy and personal behavior. Depending on
the issue, they sometimes favor government intervention
and sometimes support individual freedom of choice.
Centrists pride themselves on keeping an open mind,
tend to oppose "political extremes," and emphasize what
they describe as "practical" solutions to problems.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=8&e=5

I relish in your disappointment :D

[PARAGON]

Amazing how divided the group is on here. Yet we all drive the same vehicles. MJF, and now this issue.

I still think Kerry is an idiot. So was Dean, and Al Gore. But I think the same about their competitors.

Whoa there, pocket monkey. Don't flatter yourself that you are part of some "group." You obviously are too young and overly-ambitious in your attempt to "fit in" because you have no idea of where you "belong."

It's obvious to others who the fish out of water are here and "your group" doesn't have enough members to be considered a group here.

Dennis doesn't count because he just likes to stir the political sh!t pot much as I do the rest.



I think I was trying to get at the point that if you deny what's happening in the country around you for the "greater good", then this country as we know it is doomed. If you choose to be quiet rather than speak, then who's going to change anything? I don't think anyone should be quiet "for the sake of the troops". That's a strange arguement, because they should know how the people they're fighting for feel. I agree, if they hear only positives, of course the morale will stay up, and that's good for them. That's a winning strategy for sure. But they should know why they're there, in their hearts, and what they're fighting for. If they don't know that, then why did they sign up in the first place? For income? For college? And then Iraq came around, and they got screwed? If you think the news from home would sway their commitment, then you really have a lot to say about the integrity of our troops, don't you? .

You just aren't going to get it because 1) you're too ignorant of life's realities 2) you're too blind by your own political views to see what is RIGHT

What good does it do for anyone, and I mean anyone to voice their dissent to what they feel is an unjust war when they do that in the open, public arena. What does that accomplish and what change does that supply. None. If you as a voter, if you are even registered to vote, want to make a change to policy, you vote for someone that you feel will make a difference and/or call your Congressman and Representative to let THEM know how YOU feel.

For others that really give a damn, since you don't seem to care, lack of morale, kills. It kills the very troops that protect your freedom to say the stupid sh!t you are wanting to say without any concrete basis.

Bringing us, to the point of WHO THE **** do you think you are, that you can second guess the President and all of his advisors and every single Senator and Representative that voted in favor of this war who all had, has and will have mounds of more information about the subject than you through the biased media reports.

WHY IN THE **** do you think you can make some type of proclamation that could possibly cause death to American troops in combat without having any REAL data on the subject.

Some people should exercise self-censorship.

Certainly Marinehawk, comparing today's events to those of WWII is far-fetched. I merely wished to make the point about facism, and where it comes from. Do I think we'll get there? I don't know. Will our society collapse in 50 years? Some anthropolgists think so. But using military history will always provide the answer that might is right, because only the victorious write the "facts". There is more to culture than militarism however.

I think WWII had a very clear enemy, and it was more B&W. Today, things aren't so clear anymore. And that makes it difficult for some people to figure out what we're doing in the world today and why. Who is evil? What is evil? We're not fighting against a nation, we're fighting against a group of individuals that share a common ideal. They're everywhere. And I think that makes the wars of today far more complicated than some of those in the past.

I'm not trying to be mean here. I'm just stating my opinion. But I get very little respect here anyway, and hardly anyone likes me, so I really don't care what anyone thinks of what I say at this point. I'll continue to post here just the same.

I'm not a liberal extremist, and I'm not a conservative. I'm a moderate liberal. Do I think we need to/should be in Iraq? I am not sure. Do we need to win? YES. I have great respect for the service of our veterans. And I am surprised at how many come out as supporters of war, and how many disagree with such tragedy and death. This war in Iraq is a tragedy, and it has nothing to do with terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. Because we didn't find the latter, and we certainly aren't eliminating the former.

My grandfather is the only member of my family to serve, drafted in WWII. He was sent to Japan following their surrender. His opinion is now completely against violence and the current war. My g/f is a National Guard member. She's a medic. She doesn't like the CIC, and is not happy with what's going on in Iraq, nor are her friends. So I am not isolated from this issue.

That's what you want to call your resume for speaking from experience?

Why don't you go see a recruiter and sign up right now? Why don't you go do something bigger with your life and serve your country and get some real experience?

[Wisha Haddan H3]

I'm not a liberal extremist, and I'm not a conservative. I'm a moderate liberal. Do I think we need to/should be in Iraq? I am not sure. Do we need to win? YES. I have great respect for the service of our veterans. And I am surprised at how many come out as supporters of war, and how many disagree with such tragedy and death.

x2

My parents served honorably in the army during the Korean War and my dad joined the NSA afterwards. My brother served in the Air Force during the Gulf War. I'm proud of them and of my nephew who plans to join the Navy.

imo, we should not have invaded Iraq under Pres GW Bush. But that's as far as I can agree with my liberal friends. Now that we are there, we MUST NOT abandon the mission. What we need now is bipartison dialog on how best to complete the transition of power to the iraqis and reduce (not eliminate) our military presence there.

Pulling out now, the way we abandoned Beirut, Somalia and other places, would only embolden our enemies and leave the middle east in a power vacuum next door to an Iran eager to annex all that nice land to the west.
And to me that's far scarier than anything Saddam had in my mind.

[h2co-pilot]

Your point?

ACCORDING TO YOUR ANSWERS,

The political description that
fits you best is...

CENTRIST

CENTRISTS espouse a "middle ground" regarding government
control of the economy and personal behavior. Depending on
the issue, they sometimes favor government intervention
and sometimes support individual freedom of choice.
Centrists pride themselves on keeping an open mind,
tend to oppose "political extremes," and emphasize what
they describe as "practical" solutions to problems.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=8&e=5

I relish in your disappointment :D

Your point cawcksucker? I am proud of that conclusion.

So sorry for you to believe that the meatspin comment was directed at you, I guess you were disappointed. Hey, I like dick too and haven't really bashed on your ubergaynez. So calm down.

[BlueHUMMERH2]

Not trying to be mean to you. I just kinda thought it was. I'm sorry, but certain members have made me a bit weary lately. I appreciate your lack of uberbashing. :D

[PARAGON]

We can't pull out of Iraq, even the dems know that. The country would fall into dispair and civil war. Iran would then be the big bully on the corner and really start to fck things up. Hell, Al-Q is going nuts wanting us to leave so they can get in there again and build up.

When the President and the House are of the same party, it's typical for that party to loss seats during mid-term elections. It's been that way for decades.

We better vote Republican Tuesday. We sure as hell don't want the dems in there. Have any of you heard some of the crap they want to do? Sh!t, it's scary. Bye-bye tax cuts, hello hearings, payback for Clinton's impeachment, Nancy Pelosi, reduction in Iraqi personel when the Generals say we have barely enough now, the list goes on....:rant: :rant: :rant:

That will become Speaker of teh House.

Simply can't happen.

[usmcman001]

Dennis I honestly think your a COCK sucker...You dont have the ****ing balls to go over there do you...PRICK! Your buddy thinks he deserves those purple hearts!!! LOL I personally know many Marines and Soldiers that have been wounded and not said a damn thing because they wanted to stay in the fight with there brothers. You have no clue what is going on in Iraq except what CNN says. All bull****. 90 Percent of the troops want to be there and have personally seen troops buy toys, books, and anything else to help the young generation evolve into the great nation we are. I agree Saddam is gone but that was the very beginning of the long process to help this nation. Think if we left tomorrow the country would go to **** in a few years and about 8-10 years we would be back doing the same ****. Thats why we have to stay and help this country. Dennis STFU and go cry to all your pussy friends about this...

[DennisAJC]

Dennis I honestly think your a COCK sucker...You dont have the ****ing balls to go over there do you...PRICK! Your buddy thinks he deserves those purple hearts!!! LOL I personally know many Marines and Soldiers that have been wounded and not said a damn thing because they wanted to stay in the fight with there brothers. You have no clue what is going on in Iraq except what CNN says. All bull****. 90 Percent of the troops want to be there and have personally seen troops buy toys, books, and anything else to help the young generation evolve into the great nation we are. I agree Saddam is gone but that was the very beginning of the long process to help this nation. Think if we left tomorrow the country would go to **** in a few years and about 8-10 years we would be back doing the same ****. Thats why we have to stay and help this country. Dennis STFU and go cry to all your pussy friends about this...

Love the bravado! Just love it!:giggling:

When you get your fake e-toughness under control maybe what I say will soak into your thick skull.

I've always been Pro American, Pro Military and Pro Pussy. I'm just not Pro Bush. Get it Mr. I'matoughtalkerbutlovetheoccasionalpenisinmymouth? One of the reasons I drive a Hummer is because I support the American machine.

You won't win any football games when your QB is a moron. Bush is a moron. Kerry is a moron. You guys are without a leader and you must pray your choices are better in 2008.

And yes I still believe it true that the majority of your youth use the military because they can't afford the costs of higher education. So what? I found Kerry's joke to ring true. Don't start flapping like a c(_)nt because the "Joke" offends you. F(_)cking flower.

Like Vietnam, like Somalia, Iraq will leave the USA looking weak if they stay any longer and waste American lives. It will be another Chechnya.


Support the troops. Question the leadership.
I have no desire to see my American friends get hurt because their leader was an idiot. Does that make me a bad person?


Hell, don't bother trying to convince me, I'm Canadian. Try and convince the other 60% of Americans that feel my way.


The Democrats will have the house majority when the ballots are counted. Hello? Does that tell you something? Welcome to the minority.

[mountainbiker]

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r177/mountainbiker63/john-kerry.jpg

[daver]

Love the bravado! Just love it!:giggling:

When you get your fake e-toughness under control maybe what I say will soak into your thick skull.

I've always been Pro American, Pro Military and Pro Pussy. I'm just not Pro Bush. Get it Mr. I'matoughtalkerbutlovetheoccasionalpenisinmymouth? One of the reasons I drive a Hummer is because I support the American machine.

You won't win any football games when your QB is a moron. Bush is a moron. Kerry is a moron. You guys are without a leader and you must pray your choices are better in 2008.

And yes I still believe it true that the majority of your youth use the military because they can't afford the costs of higher education. So what? I found Kerry's joke to ring true. Don't start flapping like a c(_)nt because the "Joke" offends you. F(_)cking flower.

Like Vietnam, like Somalia, Iraq will leave the USA looking weak if they stay any longer and waste American lives. It will be another Chechnya.


Support the troops. Question the leadership.
I have no desire to see my American friends get hurt because their leader was an idiot. Does that make me a bad person?


Hell, don't bother trying to convince me, I'm Canadian. Try and convince the other 60% of Americans that feel my way.


The Democrats will have the house majority when the ballots are counted. Hello? Does that tell you something? Welcome to the minority.
Wow!! Canadians really are stupid! DennisAJC is a moron with absolutely no credibility!

[DennisAJC]

Great an AE!:giggling:

[daver]

Great an AE!:giggling:
Yep, but you are still an idiot Dennis :giggling:

[DennisAJC]

Yep, but you are still an idiot Dennis :giggling:

Hiding behind an AE on the internet. Sweet. RAAARRR!!!!!:giggling:

[daver]

Hiding behind an AE on the internet. Sweet. RAAARRR!!!!!:giggling:
A bit hiding I guess. You made my real me go way Dennis because I won't shut up. I guess the real me was way too much for you! LMFAO

But you are wrong on this particular issue (why I posted)

Gonna come back with a tomato plant thing you unbelievable scumbag?

[Scouts Out]

I think as we debate, and in some cases ban people, on this subject... we miss the one person we could blame for the biggest failures in the war. Rumsfield. GEN Eric K. Shinseki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_K._Shinseki) told Rumsfild the number of troops he needed to win the war and the number he needed to keep the peace. Rumsfield went on tv and called him an idiot ad promptly pulled a general out of retirement who would agree with him and made him the Army cheif of staff. When we got into to Iraq, Rumsfield promptly had the Iraqi Army disbanded even though the Army recommended he not. His arrogacne is only matched by his total ignorance of military history. His failure to listen to the recomedation of his commanders probably was the biggest single failure of the entire war. Let us not forget his infamous "you fight with the army you brung" quote he told the guardsmen who were upset they were not completely equipped to MTOE (ad was prompted by a ewspaper reporter to say it).

[DennisAJC]

A bit hiding I guess. You made my real me go way Dennis because I won't shut up. I guess the real me was way too much for you! LMFAO

But you are wrong on this particular issue (why I posted)

Gonna come back with a tomato plant thing you unbelievable scumbag?

Thank-you

Now enjoy your banning.;)

[MarineHawk]

Your point?

ACCORDING TO YOUR ANSWERS,

The political description that
fits you best is...

CENTRIST

CENTRISTS espouse a "middle ground" regarding government
control of the economy and personal behavior. Depending on
the issue, they sometimes favor government intervention
and sometimes support individual freedom of choice.
Centrists pride themselves on keeping an open mind,
tend to oppose "political extremes," and emphasize what
they describe as "practical" solutions to problems.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=8&e=5

I relish in your disappointment :D

The test is meaningless to me: http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?p=243813#post243813

[MarineHawk]

I think as we debate, and in some cases ban people, on this subject... we miss the one person we could blame for the biggest failures in the war. Rumsfield. GEN Eric K. Shinseki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eric_K._Shinseki) told Rumsfild the number of troops he needed to win the war and the number he needed to keep the peace. Rumsfield went on tv and called him an idiot ad promptly pulled a general out of retirement who would agree with him and made him the Army cheif of staff. When we got into to Iraq, Rumsfield promptly had the Iraqi Army disbanded even though the Army recommended he not. His arrogacne is only matched by his total ignorance of military history. His failure to listen to the recomedation of his commanders probably was the biggest single failure of the entire war. Let us not forget his infamous "you fight with the army you brung" quote he told the guardsmen who were upset they were not completely equipped to MTOE (ad was prompted by a ewspaper reporter to say it).

Don't forget that we would have had another 40,000 troops from the start if the Turkish Parliament had not betrayed us at the last minute. Also, while the words used may not have been dimplomatic, we do generally have to fight wars with what we have. Yeah, I know more stuff would save more lives, but, in reality, we can only go so far. If every soldier or Marine had his way, we would have a combined force of 3,000,000 troops to fight an army of 200,000, and each soldier would have their own fully supplied automated M-1 Abrams main battle tank, and each one of those would be supported by two F-22 Raptors, three Apache helos, five F-18 Hornets, and two artillery batteries. Not feasible. We have, by far, the best supplied military in the world, and it's getting better. Asking for much more seems a little picky.

[DDWH]

.

[GLBLWARMR]

Everything has gotten lost over the last couple of years. It takes more than one man in the US to say I am going to invade a country. It took more than just that one vote. Everyone saying that the President mislead the country in why we went to war. That is a bunch of bullshlt. Congress saw the same intelligence the President saw and if they saw the need to remove a evil little man from power then there must have been something there. All of this political bullshlt makes me sick. Do not use me, my brothers and sisters as fuel for you to try and win a fvcking election. I am busy, I have work to do trying to help rebuild a country so leave us the fvck alone.

Concerning education. Right there are many people that cannot afford higher education but there are standards that one must meet before being allowed to join the miliatary. We have standards in the military so if you are "Ding, Fries ready" look somewhere else because you will be turned away at the door. Yep some people slip through the cracks but it is my job as a SNCO to help that individual succeed and if it is deemed that this person does not fit the mold then there is a process to help them out of the military. We have jobs for smart people and the not so smart people.

Now on about the leadership. The only decission of the US Government that I have to follow is going to a country that smells like ass it is not the decision of one person but a group of people. Other than that it is the tactical Ground Commander that I have to follow. He is the one that is making the tactical decisions within the country. He is the one that determines which raid and patrol we go on. But again it is not really one person that makes all of the decisions. When options are provided there are usually a couple of different COAs provided.

They need to quite using us for politcal purposes we are busy right now working bigger issues. So if there is a problem with education in the country do something about fixing it instead of making fvcking ridiculous jokes about it. Thanks for saying that you are proud that you have not done anything about making the country a better place by making smarter citizens. So other than that

[KenP]

We can't pull out of Iraq, even the dems know that. The country would fall into dispair and civil war. Iran would then be the big bully on the corner and really start to fck things up. Hell, Al-Q is going nuts wanting us to leave so they can get in there again and build up.

When the President and the House are of the same party, it's typical for that party to loss seats during mid-term elections. It's been that way for decades.

We better vote Republican Tuesday. We sure as hell don't want the dems in there. Have any of you heard some of the crap they want to do? Sh!t, it's scary. Bye-bye tax cuts, hello hearings, payback for Clinton's impeachment, Nancy Pelosi, reduction in Iraqi personel when the Generals say we have barely enough now, the list goes on....:rant: :rant: :rant:

[wpage]

Support the troops. Dump the politico's...

[MarineHawk]

When the President and the House are of the same party, it's typical for that party to loss seats during mid-term elections. It's been that way for decades.

We better vote Republican Tuesday. We sure as hell don't want the dems in there. Have any of you heard some of the crap they want to do? Sh!t, it's scary. Bye-bye tax cuts, hello hearings, payback for Clinton's impeachment, Nancy Pelosi, reduction in Iraqi personel when the Generals say we have barely enough now, the list goes on....:rant: :rant: :rant:

Keep your fingers crossed: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/05/AR2006110501075_pf.html

[PARAGON]

RAIN! RAIN! RAIN! RAIN! :D

[KenP]

Keep your fingers crossed: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/05/AR2006110501075_pf.htmlWE ahd a poll worker stop by yesterday. I reminded her I had a sign in the front yard.:beerchug:

X2 Paragon. RAIN RAIN RAIN!!!!!

[wpage]

Kerry=Demo killer!

[GeorgeSSSS]

Keep your fingers crossed: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/05/AR2006110501075_pf.html

:perfect10s::perfect10s::perfect10s: :clapping::clapping::clapping: