diesel

[-=Mac=-]

Anyone else think a diesel engine option for the H3 would be a great idea?? I've had a couple of diesels... in fact, I traded a diesel 4X4 truck for my H3... and diesel suits wheeling like nothing else: gobs of torque, low revs, no electrics to get wet, cheaper to run.

GM, if you're reading, think diesel H3!!

-Mac

[HummBebe]

Sorry sweetie, we've been busy playing with a troll.

Yes we would love a diesel for the H3. Might be a while, like 3-5 years before we see one in the US. But it will show up eventually.:)

[Wisha Haddan H3]

diesel = :cool:

[f5fstop]

Anyone else think a diesel engine option for the H3 would be a great idea?? I've had a couple of diesels... in fact, I traded a diesel 4X4 truck for my H3... and diesel suits wheeling like nothing else: gobs of torque, low revs, no electrics to get wet, cheaper to run.

GM, if you're reading, think diesel H3!!

-Mac

I don't like the idea, and it will be quite a while before one hits the USA market. But there is one going to Europe next year.

[Steve - SanJose]

I have no desire for a diesel in my H3. I have no desire to have a diesel in any of my vehicles (SUV/sports sedan/sports car).

S.

[-=Mac=-]

Sorry sweetie, we've been busy playing with a troll.
Yeah, I noticed... Your remarks in my introduction thread make sense to me now.

I don't like the idea, and it will be quite a while before one hits the USA market. But there is one going to Europe next year.
I'm curious as to why you don't like the idea.

While I certainly don't aspire to follow Europe's example in most things (especially their penchant for socialism) Europe has diesel available in most models of vehicles. Almost all of their larger vehicles are diesel powered. Here in North America, diesels remain the exception. Given the huge advances and improvements made in the past decade, diesel is an excellent option, especially for vehicles like the H3.

-Mac

[Desert Dan]

I would not want a diesel in a light duty vehicle.
I wouldn't want to behind a diesel while wheeling. No Thanks

Maybe a Cummings diesel if I was towing horses, hogs or hay of a trailer.



If you have a leaking gerry can of diesel I wil stink up the truck and won't evaporate.

[f5fstop]

Yeah, I noticed... Your remarks in my introduction thread make sense to me now.


I'm curious as to why you don't like the idea.

While I certainly don't aspire to follow Europe's example in most things (especially their penchant for socialism) Europe has diesel available in most models of vehicles. Almost all of their larger vehicles are diesel powered. Here in North America, diesels remain the exception. Given the huge advances and improvements made in the past decade, diesel is an excellent option, especially for vehicles like the H3.

-Mac

They stink, and for the cost of the diesel, as well as the higher cost of diesel fuel, it is not worth the price. I will be satisifed with a nice V8:dancingbanana: .
Desert Dan said it best, for this size vehicle, unless you are pulling a farmyard full of animals, a diesel is not necessary. For a vehicle the size of an H2, a diesel might be ok, but if an option, I would not purchase one.

[-=Mac=-]

Here in Canada, the cost of diesel fuel is about the same as the cost of regular gasoline and much less than premium. I wasn't aware that diesel cost was more in the States.

The smell of diesel fumes are an acquired taste, I suppose, but the new diesels aren't the black-belching monsters of the past. My old Dodge was loud but the new Cummins aren't any noisier than a gas engine and get nearly double the mileage with more torque. The only downside is weight but even that is relative. My wife's grocery getter is a Volksdragon Jetta TDI. It is quiet and smooth running, no smell, gets great mileage and has decent power in a small package.

Daimler-Chrysler is plunking their new Bluetec diesel into their 2007 Grand Cherokee. It'll be interesting to see how that works out.

-Mac

[GregDiesel]

the only Diesel in my Hummer is me... :D

[HummBebe]

HEY!!!

THE CHIKIN IS BACK!!!


WELCOME BACK :excited:

[GregDiesel]

thanks baby ;)

[-=Mac=-]

the only Diesel in my Hummer is me... :D
I didn't know... I've been driving your name around for years and loving every minute of it... :giggling:

-Mac

[timgco]

WHere's the V8 at? When?

SAVE the deisel for the H2.

[K9sH3]

A deisel would be ok with me, But I would rather have the snorkel set up first.

[H3PAC]

They stink

I like it! 34115

[-=Mac=-]

I like it!
As one of my friends likes to say "You dropped it... you pick it up!!" :p

-Mac

[lennyrebel]

Anyone else think a diesel engine option for the H3 would be a great idea?? I've had a couple of diesels... in fact, I traded a diesel 4X4 truck for my H3... and diesel suits wheeling like nothing else: gobs of torque, low revs, no electrics to get wet, cheaper to run.

GM, if you're reading, think diesel H3!!

-Mac
Okay first of all Diesels pump out known carcinogens. NO. 2 When you crack a barrel of crude depending on grade you can get more than 50 gallons of gas and perhaps 20 gallons of stove oil with some propane depending on time of year etc. So because diesel is not nearly so refined it has more btus per gallon so its heavier but a barrel of crude gives you 40 gallons of diesel. Big savings in refinery costs so more energy at roughly same per gallon price. However if we all start burning diesel I'm sure price will soar . Catalytic converters for 2007 for diesels. Watch these all plug up from soot. Presently diesel emissions are only checked for clarity,ie if some light will pass through exhaust its a pass, never mind all the crap your inundating everyone with. I don't think diesel is much of an answer unless your trying to cure over population. The Rebel

[-=Mac=-]

I don't think diesel is much of an answer unless your trying to cure over population. The Rebel
Knowing my luck, the wrong people would end up dying so it isn't even good to cure over-population!! :giggling:

Seriously, your arguments were valid 10 years ago but the technology has advanced remarkably. According to what I've read (yeah, I know... seeing is believing) the Bluetec being produced by Mercedes is cleaner than a gas engine. One of the key differences between European and American diesels has always been the higher sulfur content allowed in American diesel fuel. The oil companies are now producing more refined (ie: less sulfur) diesel which won't produce as much gack to clog everyone's lungs. Advances in technology, better fuel... it's all good. Then there's the biodiesel possibilities.

In the meantime, I'm not contrary to gas engines. I didn't buy an H3 to sit in the garage. I'm just open to alternatives.

-Mac

[thedieter]

No. Almost all of our driving is short hops and I think diesels should be warmed up more for best results.

Also, diesel here is $0.70 more at local station which would wipe out any cost advantage. (rip-off)

Could the refining costs to remove sulfer be causing the higher cost for diesel?

I agree that if large numbers of cars use diesel, we will all pay more hidden for trucking costs.

Best regards, Happy Jack

[lennyrebel]

Knowing my luck, the wrong people would end up dying so it isn't even good to cure over-population!! :giggling:

Seriously, your arguments were valid 10 years ago but the technology has advanced remarkably. According to what I've read (yeah, I know... seeing is believing) the Bluetec being produced by Mercedes is cleaner than a gas engine. One of the key differences between European and American diesels has always been the higher sulfur content allowed in American diesel fuel. The oil companies are now producing more refined (ie: less sulfur) diesel which won't produce as much gack to clog everyone's lungs. Advances in technology, better fuel... it's all good. Then there's the biodiesel possibilities.

In the meantime, I'm not contrary to gas engines. I didn't buy an H3 to sit in the garage. I'm just open to alternatives.

-Mac
First let me state that my son is a Diesel Mechanic and I am in the automobile business as well . He does Emission checks on diesels and all they use is an opacity meter 12 inches above the stack at 1400 rpm .If some light passes through its a go. In 2007 all diesels must have catalytic converters, watch them plug up and get blown out or discarded. Naturally when your in your Diesel you don't notice soot and smell cause its behind you for everyone else to breathe. But I guess that is the philosophy of the me generation ,as long as I'm saving a buck to hell with everybody else. And I guess you don't understand that in the cracking process you can get more than 50 gallons of gas from a barrel of crud whereas with unrefined diesel your lucky to get 35 0r 40 gallons. So the mileage thing is a draw if the taxes were equal.

[H3PAC]

First let me state that my son is a Diesel Mechanic and I am in the automobile business as well . He does Emission checks on diesels and all they use is an opacity meter 12 inches above the stack at 1400 rpm .If some light passes through its a go. In 2007 all diesels must have catalytic converters, watch them plug up and get blown out or discarded. Naturally when your in your Diesel you don't notice soot and smell cause its behind you for everyone else to breathe. But I guess that is the philosophy of the me generation ,as long as I'm saving a buck to hell with everybody else. And I guess you don't understand that in the cracking process you can get more than 50 gallons of gas from a barrel of crud whereas with unrefined diesel your lucky to get 35 0r 40 gallons. So the mileage thing is a draw if the taxes were equal.

I'm glad to see that you immediately pulled your original reply to Mac and toned it down some, but take it easy. Mac is very correct about new diesel technology, particularly in Europe, where there is a different, cleaner burning fuel technology as well. And not all diesels are horribly dirty. My father drove a Dodge pickup powered by a Cummins turbo diesel (an outstanding, bulletproof engine) for a number of years. There were no choking clouds of black soot spewing out from his exhaust. And being born in 1924, living through the great depression, and serving in WW2, my father, now 82 and a diesel advocate, is certainly not a member of the "me" generation.

I find it rather ironic that you, driving a vehicle that gets around 16 mph, is preaching about vehicle emissions and efficiency. Why don't you do the responsible thing and by a vehicle that gets 32 mpg and produces exactly half the emissions of your H3? Instead, you drive down the highway "spewing" twice the carcinogens and greenhouse gasses than you need to, while wagging your finger at others. I don't find your arguent to be very credible from an environmental standpoint. Perhaps take another tack. 34152

[-=Mac=-]

I just traded a 1996 Dodge pickup with the Cummins turbodiesel 5.9 litre. We have emissions testing in Vancouver and the last time I had it tested, the opacity was 2.36% according to my records so no black cloud of smoke.

As for whether I understand the refining of aliphatic hydrocarbons or not, gasoline is a mixture of C7H16 through C11H24, all which boil at temperatures lower than water which is why they evaporate so readily. Kerosene, diesel and other fuel oils are in the C12Hn to C17Hn range. The denser oils and solid waxes (C18Hn through C80Hn) are typically cracked (a refinement process used to literally split apart heavy hydrocarbons into lighter ones) and later reformed using a process called alkylation but diesel isn't cracked as it's a desirable commodity.

I started this thread to discuss the idea of a diesel engine for the H3. The H1 had diesel engines since the beginning and, from what I've read, many people would welcome a diesel option in the H2. Others expressed their opinions both yea and nay. From your posts, I'm not sure if your problem is with me or diesels or both. If I did something to upset you, it wasn't intentional (especially since I have no idea what your beef is) but if you're hoping to impress or intimidate me, you've failed on both counts.

-Mac

[Huck BB62]

I just traded a 1996 Dodge pickup with the Cummins turbodiesel 5.9 litre. We have emissions testing in Vancouver and the last time I had it tested, the opacity was 2.36% according to my records so no black cloud of smoke.

As for whether I understand the refining of aliphatic hydrocarbons or not, gasoline is a mixture of C7H16 through C11H24, all which boil at temperatures lower than water which is why they evaporate so readily. Kerosene, diesel and other fuel oils are in the C12Hn to C17Hn range. The denser oils and solid waxes (C18Hn through C80Hn) are typically cracked (a refinement process used to literally split apart heavy hydrocarbons into lighter ones) and later reformed using a process called alkylation but diesel isn't cracked as it's a desirable commodity.

I started this thread to discuss the idea of a diesel engine for the H3. The H1 had diesel engines since the beginning and, from what I've read, many people would welcome a diesel option in the H2. Others expressed their opinions both yea and nay. From your posts, I'm not sure if your problem is with me or diesels or both. If I did something to upset you, it wasn't intentional (especially since I have no idea what your beef is) but if you're hoping to impress or intimidate me, you've failed on both counts.

-Mac

I drive a Duramax. I'd LOVE to have that engine and transmission in an H2, and a 6 cylinder version in the H3. Better mileage BY FAR better mileage. Off road, diesel's the ticket, it's torque off idle is a perfect match for the conditions.

Catalytic converters have been on diesels for a while now, they're not clogging up any more than any other vehicle. New for '07 WILL be particulate filters. They will not clog up either. They're designed to go into a self clearing burn off mode to keep it clear. They won't last forever though and will have a projected lifespan of about 100k miles.

People that don't like diesels haven't owned one. There's not a gas engine out there that will pull, or give the mileage of any of the big three diesel pickup truck engines. My Dmax is no more noisey than some chucklehead's aftermarket exhausted anything. It doesn't make smoke.

To keep this discussion real: The H2 is going bye-bye unless they put a diesel in it to bring the mileage up. It takes torque to maintain the thing at freeway speeds, at a low rpm, and get good mileage. The H3 could benefit from ANY engine upgrade. I'm imagining that six cylinder Dmax with a sweet six speed behind it and getting in the mid 20s on mileage. Ohhhhhh yeah!:dancingbanana:

[-=Mac=-]

I'm imagining that six cylinder Dmax with a sweet six speed behind it and getting in the mid 20s on mileage. Ohhhhhh yeah!:dancingbanana:
That's what I'm talking about!! :)

-Mac

[Wisha Haddan H3]

I'm imagining that six cylinder Dmax with a sweet six speed behind it and getting in the mid 20s on mileage. Ohhhhhh yeah!:dancingbanana:
That's what I'm talking about!! :)

-Mac

x2 :beerchug:

[Steve - SanJose]

That's a dream at best.:)

S.

[Huck BB62]

Dreams don't become reality in the auto world without customer demand. Hell, they built the SSR and Prowler didn't they? How far fetched were THOSE things?

[Steve - SanJose]

Dreams don't become reality in the auto world without customer demand. Hell, they built the SSR and Prowler didn't they? How far fetched were THOSE things?

Agreed, dreams are worth striving for in the automotive world. But from a business standpoint, SSR's and Prowlers are marginal at best both technically and economically.

S.

[BEST 4x4xFAR]

I'm holding out hope for a nice turbo diesel. I personally agree with the original poster, and feel a nice modern turbo diesel would be an excellent engine choice for the H3, especially if offered with a manual transmission. Clean, considerably better fuel efficiency, excellent off idle torque. I doubt that GM will be able to have the vision to see the possibilities though. They are only doing it in Europe because the truck would be doomed without it there. Europeans love their diesels, and for good reason.

[lennyrebel]

I'm glad to see that you immediately pulled your original reply to Mac and toned it down some, but take it easy. Mac is very correct about new diesel technology, particularly in Europe, where there is a different, cleaner burning fuel technology as well. And not all diesels are horribly dirty. My father drove a Dodge pickup powered by a Cummins turbo diesel (an outstanding, bulletproof engine) for a number of years. There were no choking clouds of black soot spewing out from his exhaust. And being born in 1924, living through the great depression, and serving in WW2, my father, now 82 and a diesel advocate, is certainly not a member of the "me" generation.

I find it rather ironic that you, driving a vehicle that gets around 16 mph, is preaching about vehicle emissions and efficiency. Why don't you do the responsible thing and by a vehicle that gets 32 mpg and produces exactly half the emissions of your H3? Instead, you drive down the highway "spewing" twice the carcinogens and greenhouse gasses than you need to, while wagging your finger at others. I don't find your arguent to be very credible from an environmental standpoint. Perhaps take another tack. 34152
For your info. my first reply didn't enter right it was not any different than second. Okay I forgot how thin skinned all you H3ers are. Funny how you pick out parts of my statement and others such as how you can get way more gas from cracking crude than making diesel. Also I guess you don't understand difference between possible greenhouse gases and known carcinogens from diesel particulate . And My FAther God Bless HIs sole never let any foreign junk such as vws or toyotas on his property in the 88yrs that he lived. In the future I'll confine my messages to the H2ers who have more intelligence and less belligerence. I guess cops and wannabees always want the last word and to hell with Facts .THE REBEL and PROUD OF IT

[H3.007]

:iagree:

Any costs previously saved by using diesel have also disappeared here.

Until we develope our fuel resources to the point where we can
:fdance: to the Middle East, I am afraid we are at the disposal of thieving oil barons and robber refineries everywhere. :violin:

[H3PAC]

For your info. my first reply didn't enter right it was not any different than second. Okay I forgot how thin skinned all you H3ers are. Funny how you pick out parts of my statement and others such as how you can get way more gas from cracking crude than making diesel. Also I guess you don't understand difference between possible greenhouse gases and known carcinogens from diesel particulate . And My FAther God Bless HIs sole never let any foreign junk such as vws or toyotas on his property in the 88yrs that he lived. In the future I'll confine my messages to the H2ers who have more intelligence and less belligerence. I guess cops and wannabees always want the last word and to hell with Facts .THE REBEL and PROUD OF IT

I hate calling someone a liar, but you sure DID change your post. I was in the middle of replying to your original message to Mac when an error occurred (when you deleted your original). I just happened to save a particularly rude portion of it. Here it is:

Typical diesel owners just brag about their mpg while they go spewing their soot and carcinogens down the highway. Sure if your inside it you don't smell it everybody else has to. I guess your part of the me only generation and to hell with everybody else. for your information I'm in the automotive industry as well.

Look familiar? It should. You wrote it. 34206

In the future I'll confine my messages to the H2ers who have more intelligence and less belligerence.

Promise? 34207

[-=Mac=-]

For your info. my first reply didn't enter right it was not any different than second. Okay I forgot how thin skinned all you H3ers are. Funny how you pick out parts of my statement and others such as how you can get way more gas from cracking crude than making diesel. Also I guess you don't understand difference between possible greenhouse gases and known carcinogens from diesel particulate . And My FAther God Bless HIs sole never let any foreign junk such as vws or toyotas on his property in the 88yrs that he lived. In the future I'll confine my messages to the H2ers who have more intelligence and less belligerence. I guess cops and wannabees always want the last word and to hell with Facts .THE REBEL and PROUD OF IT
Why am I not surprised by this post? :(

Fact? What facts, Lenny? The fact you're WRONG about diesels, the fact you tried and FAILED to impress with your "extensive" knowledge and experience or did you have some other "facts" which only exist in your head? :shhh:

Now you've finally aired your true objection... you don't like cops. :twak:

Yeah, I saw your remark on the other thread. Funny for a guy who's been on this forum for a couple of months to be making smarmy remarks about me being a newby and how ironic for YOU to be telling ME to lighten up!! :p

I don't know nor care why you don't like cops but if you're not man enough to deal with me for who I am, not what I do for a living, what does that say about you? ;)

For other who wish to continue discussing the possibility of a diesel H3, maybe even explore what size/type/configuration would work best, I would like to continue this thread despite the PROUD REBEL. Please excuse my redress of Lenny's nonsense. I've found it's best to put bullies in their place quickly and move on...

-Mac

[Viet Nam Vette]

........:popcorn:

[Steve - SanJose]

:yawn:

S.

[-=Mac=-]

The Jeep Liberty is available with a 2.8-liter four-cylinder motor that provides adequate power and 26 mpg with a 4 speed automatic tranny. When I test drove a Liberty, about the only thing which impressed me was the engine and even that was only adequate.

Since the H3 comes with an inline five, I took a look for inline five diesels and found this interesting article (http://elcova.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/6916043161/m/7801007341) as well as numerous articles on the Dodge Sprinter which has an inline five turbodiesel giving 154 horsepower and 243 pounds-feet of torque. Hmmmm, more HP would be nice but that torque number looks good for a start.

-Mac

[Desert Dan]

Let's see if the Holden H3 they sell in Australia has a diesel option.

I still see fewer gas stations with diesel here in CA.
I haven't seen any E 85 yellow pumps yet

[lamric]

Okay first of all Diesels pump out known carcinogens. NO. 2 When you crack a barrel of crude depending on grade you can get more than 50 gallons of gas and perhaps 20 gallons of stove oil with some propane depending on time of year etc. So because diesel is not nearly so refined it has more btus per gallon so its heavier but a barrel of crude gives you 40 gallons of diesel. Big savings in refinery costs so more energy at roughly same per gallon price. However if we all start burning diesel I'm sure price will soar . Catalytic converters for 2007 for diesels. Watch these all plug up from soot. Presently diesel emissions are only checked for clarity,ie if some light will pass through exhaust its a pass, never mind all the crap your inundating everyone with. I don't think diesel is much of an answer unless your trying to cure over population. The Rebel



One barrel of crude oil is 42 gallons. Out of that you will get roughly 19.4 gallons of gas and 9.7 gallons of home heating oil/diesel fuel. The cracking process will yield about 42 gallons of products.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

The Jeep Liberty is available with a 2.8-liter four-cylinder motor that provides adequate power and 26 mpg with a 4 speed automatic tranny. When I test drove a Liberty, about the only thing which impressed me was the engine and even that was only adequate.
That little 4 banger diesel puts out 295 ft-lbs at 1800 rpm. That's a lot of torque for 2.8 liters !!! It's all on the low end though ... drops off really fast after the peak, but still matches the 3.5L max even at 4000 rpm. Not much HP tho ... peaks at 160 HP.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

That's one good thing about the I-5 ... it has 2 torque peaks in the most used parts of the power band (2600 & 4800 rpm). HP peaks at 5600.

Here's a chart of the 3.5 and 3.7 L engines for comparison with the Liberty's CRD

[-=Mac=-]

Thanks for posting those!! The lack of horsepower explains why the Liberty wasn't much fun on the quick highway run, especially with the auto-tranny but that torque should make it capable for wheeling.

-Mac

[f5fstop]

You can show all the torque charts for every diesel made, make all the wishes you want, but unless the US market changes, the costs of installing a diesel in the H3 for the US/Canadian market is not worthwhile at this time. Someday in the future, it might change, but marketing research shows, diesels are not wanted at this time.

[BEST 4x4xFAR]

You can show all the torque charts for every diesel made, make all the wishes you want, but unless the US market changes, the costs of installing a diesel in the H3 for the US/Canadian market is not worthwhile at this time. Someday in the future, it might change, but marketing research shows, diesels are not wanted at this time.

Silly MAC, don't you know that as an enthusiasts you make up less than 1% of GMs customers, how many yuppies looking for something intimidating to drive (with a name that they feel gives them prestige) care about the virtues of a diesel? Now these buyers will buy a V8 in a heartbeat, cause everyone "needs" more power you know..

P.S. -- I'm with you MAC, I want a nice turbo diesel under the hood..

[Huck BB62]

I don't want an inline 5 diesel. I don't want a four banger. I want a six cylinder dmax. It's a GM company, and it wouldn't be that hard. Yeah, the H3 would cost $5k more but all I can say is this: H1 Alpha.

It would make a profound vehicle. I'd sacrifice some of the handling to get the solid axle up front too. You know, that brings this to mind, how cool would it be to have a portal driven front axle with a locker?!? Yeah, that's what I want:

H3 with 6cyl. dmax
6 speed baby Allison
14 bolt rear end with e-locker
Portal driven abbreviated front axle with e-locker
4:1 tcase
35's, stock
Removeable rear seat
Shifter on the column to give me back my console for the ham radio and cup holders

There, that's a long way towards the perfect H3 Alpha.

About there not being a market for the diesel? Yeah, right, if they did it right, they'd sell 'em like hotcakes. They're misidentifying their market. For cryin' out loud, people are putting $1000 ROOF RACKS on their vehicles!

[Wisha Haddan H3]

You can show all the torque charts for every diesel made, make all the wishes you want, but unless the US market changes, the costs of installing a diesel in the H3 for the US/Canadian market is not worthwhile at this time. Someday in the future, it might change, but marketing research shows, diesels are not wanted at this time.

I realize it's all about the marketplace ... but it's fun to talk about :D

[f5fstop]

I don't want an inline 5 diesel. I don't want a four banger. I want a six cylinder dmax. It's a GM company, and it wouldn't be that hard.


http://hometown.aol.com/f5fstop01/images/banghead.gif

GM does not, nor has it ever owned Isuzu. It did own somewhere between 7 and 10 percent at one time, but sold all their shares earlier this year. It still has an agreement with Isuzu in regard to the purchase of Isuzu engines, and there is still some agreement with the sale and service of their vehicles (or else those Isuzu vehicles sitting at my work location have been forgotten:confused: ).

In fact, I believe Toyota purchased about 5 percent of Isuzu right after GM sold their shares.

[-=Mac=-]

I realize it's all about the marketplace ... but it's fun to talk about :D
Agreed!! As Jeep starts to drop Bluetec engines into their assorted lineup, it'll be interesting to see if the market for diesel powered SUVs develops. The Liberty first, then the Grand Cherokee... rumour has it the Wrangler will be next. I would rather see GM lead than follow...

-Mac

[-=Mac=-]

6 cylinder Duramax is an Isuzu motor? Is the engine use arrangement like Cummins with Dodge?

-Mac
GM does not, nor has it ever owned Isuzu.

[Huck BB62]

Duramax is made in Ohio, by folks like you and I. Things I don't know would fill an encyclopedia, but the internet is helpful....

1971GM signed a capital agreement with Isuzu.1972KB pickup trucks first shipped to the U.S.A. under the Chevrolet LUV name.1974Gemini, the first car jointly developed with GM under the world-car concept, was introduced in the Japanese market.1983GM and Isuzu established GM Egypt jointly with local investors.1984Shipment of Gemini R-Car (Chevrolet Spectrum) commenced.1987IBC Vehicles Ltd. was set up to manufacture commercial vehicles in the U.K. as a joint venture between GM and Isuzu.1989GM and Isuzu jointly established Isuzu-General Motors Australia Ltd. to import, assemble and market Isuzu vehicles in Australia.1994Production of NPR gasoline powered trucks started at the GM Janesville Plant in Wisconsin.1995Production of Hombre pickups jointly developed with GM for U.S. market started at the GM Shreveport Plant in Louisiana.1996Production of medium-duty trucks with Isuzu cabs started at the GM Janesville Plant.1997Isuzu Motors Polska Sp. z o.o. was established in Poland to assemble diesel engines for Adam Opel AG in Germany.
Isuzu Thailand started the OEM supply of Isuzu TFR pickups to GM Thailand.1998In the U.S.A., DMAX, Ltd. was set up jointly by Isuzu and GM to manufacture diesel engines.1999GM raised its share of equity in Isuzu to 49.0% from 37.5%.2000Production of 6.6-liter direct-injection diesel started at DMAX, Ltd.
GM and Isuzu jointly established General Motors Isuzu Commercial Truck, LLC for sales and marketing of GM/Isuzu commercial vehicles in the U.S.A.2001GM and Isuzu agreed to start consigned-basis production of Isuzu one-ton pickups at GM Thailand.2002All-new Isuzu one-ton pickups, jointly developed by GM and Isuzu, debuted in Thai market as "Isuzu D-Max."2003GM's share of Isuzu's capital was altered from 49% to 12%.
Isuzu and GM established a new joint venture company called GMI Diesel Engineering Ltd. (GMIDEL) for powertrain systems.
Production of 1-ton pickup truck for general export started at GM Thailand.2004Supply of CKD to GM India for multi-purpose vehicle started.

The DMAX venture is 60 percent owned by Isuzu Motors and 40 percent owned by General Motors and involves an investment of $320 million in this engine launch. Though no technical details have been released, the new 6.6 L engine is said to offer significant improvements in performance characteristics, fuel economy and emissions over the current GM diesel.

[f5fstop]

Duramax is made in Ohio, by folks like you and I. Things I don't know would fill an encyclopedia, but the internet is helpful....

1971GM signed a capital agreement with Isuzu.1972KB pickup trucks first shipped to the U.S.A. under the Chevrolet LUV name.1974Gemini, the first car jointly developed with GM under the world-car concept, was introduced in the Japanese market.1983GM and Isuzu established GM Egypt jointly with local investors.1984Shipment of Gemini R-Car (Chevrolet Spectrum) commenced.1987IBC Vehicles Ltd. was set up to manufacture commercial vehicles in the U.K. as a joint venture between GM and Isuzu.1989GM and Isuzu jointly established Isuzu-General Motors Australia Ltd. to import, assemble and market Isuzu vehicles in Australia.1994Production of NPR gasoline powered trucks started at the GM Janesville Plant in Wisconsin.1995Production of Hombre pickups jointly developed with GM for U.S. market started at the GM Shreveport Plant in Louisiana.1996Production of medium-duty trucks with Isuzu cabs started at the GM Janesville Plant.1997Isuzu Motors Polska Sp. z o.o. was established in Poland to assemble diesel engines for Adam Opel AG in Germany.
Isuzu Thailand started the OEM supply of Isuzu TFR pickups to GM Thailand.1998In the U.S.A., DMAX, Ltd. was set up jointly by Isuzu and GM to manufacture diesel engines.1999GM raised its share of equity in Isuzu to 49.0% from 37.5%.2000Production of 6.6-liter direct-injection diesel started at DMAX, Ltd.
GM and Isuzu jointly established General Motors Isuzu Commercial Truck, LLC for sales and marketing of GM/Isuzu commercial vehicles in the U.S.A.2001GM and Isuzu agreed to start consigned-basis production of Isuzu one-ton pickups at GM Thailand.2002All-new Isuzu one-ton pickups, jointly developed by GM and Isuzu, debuted in Thai market as "Isuzu D-Max."2003GM's share of Isuzu's capital was altered from 49% to 12%.
Isuzu and GM established a new joint venture company called GMI Diesel Engineering Ltd. (GMIDEL) for powertrain systems.
Production of 1-ton pickup truck for general export started at GM Thailand.2004Supply of CKD to GM India for multi-purpose vehicle started.

The DMAX venture is 60 percent owned by Isuzu Motors and 40 percent owned by General Motors and involves an investment of $320 million in this engine launch. Though no technical details have been released, the new 6.6 L engine is said to offer significant improvements in performance characteristics, fuel economy and emissions over the current GM diesel.

That's nice that you know so much about DMAX, but your original statement was incorrect:
"Originally Posted by Huck BB62
I don't want an inline 5 diesel. I don't want a four banger. I want a six cylinder dmax. It's a GM company, and it wouldn't be that hard."

There is a quite a difference between a "joint venture" and a company that GM "owns." GM had a joint venture with Toyota too, does that mean GM owned Toyota.
Now, continue to dream on about a GM diesel in a H3, since you have probably sepent a day googling Isuzu and GM, I just spent two minutes on the future production charts for GM vehicles (to make sure nothing changed in the last week) and guess what....NO diesel for the H3.

I can google too:
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GM sells Isuzu shares for $300 million
Long expected, GM just anounced that they were selling off their Isuzu shares.

Snippet: TOKYO -- Cash-strapped General Motors Corp. is selling the shares it holds in truckmaker Isuzu to two Japanese trading companies and a bank for about $300 million to fund its turnaround in North America, the U.S. automaker said Tuesday.

Disposing of the Isuzu stake marks the latest retreat for a company besieged by staggering losses, labor problems and mounting competition from Asian automakers. The move also highlights GM's rapid pullout from Japanese partnerships it has built since the 1970s.
GM said last month that it was selling the 7.9 percent stake it held in Isuzu Motors Ltd., or about 90 million shares, but will keep its business partnership with Isuzu, such as joint development and manufacturing of trucks and diesel engines.

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Toyota-Isuzu alliance

Toyota and Isuzu have signed a memorandum of understanding stating they will start studying the synergic effects of business collaboration.

Not sure where this might lead, as it seems to me that Isuzu, from a product standpoint, offers pretty much the same types of offerings as does Toyota. In any event this is good news for Isuzu I would think, as on the surface, this appears to be more of a benefit for them than for Toyota.

Here's a news update: Toyota buys 5.9% of Isuzu.
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GM also has an agreement in place with Fiat to purchase some of their smaller diesels for use in small vehicles and trucks. This was left over from the recent buyout GM performed to get out of purchasing Fiat.

GM is also working on their own diesels that will meet ALL us state emissions regulations, and they are working on this issue without Isuzu. Go back in time, and GM at one time made some of the best truck diesels in the world....Detroit Diesel Allison.
(GM was also responsible for killing the diesel market in the US with the infamous small truck diesel in the 70s that was a POS.

Now, I'm done talking about diesels and I'll let all you guys who want diesels to either dream on, or purchase a Jeep. For some, it might be the best thing that could happen (for you and the forum).

[Huck BB62]

fstop, seems like you're in that Midol mood. What's your beef with diesels?

Thanks for taking the time to google more stuff for us. Not to pick too much, I don't google because they store their searches indefinitely. What that means yet, who knows, just going with my gut.

Spend a day searching? More like fifteen seconds. C'mon, you think I'm that involved in this krap? It would appear that you've spent a lot more time than that, I appreciate the effort.

OK, so it's not a GM company so much anymore. Big deal. The engine's made in Ohio still right?

Like I said before, if people don't say what they want, they'll be stuck with what they get.... period.

It's my guess that you're not done talking about diesels yet.....:beerchug:

[3Hummer]

I don't think a diesel a would be a bad idea.... I would'nt want one in my car though becuase the problem with it down here where I live is theres only like 2 gas stations that have diesel within 30 miles of me! If there's a bunch of a gas stations that have diesel it be a great idea, but diesel fuel is diminishing in gas stations quite alot, you usually only find it often on the highways now.

[f5fstop]

fstop, seems like you're in that Midol mood. What's your beef with diesels? I don't hate diesels. If I needed to tow a fifth wheel or something similar, I would purchase a Duramax in a flash. I don't think for small SUVs or cars they are logical at this time. One, the price of diesel fuel is about .60 more than gasoline; two, diesel options with their stronger axles and transmissions costs a lot more; thus, not logical in this day and age. In addition, like I have been trying to say, why wish for something that probably will not happen due to market research; at least at this time.
You have a small minority of people on this forum, which in itself is a very small minority of H3 owners, who want diesels. I prefer a V8 for possible better fuel economy, more torque, and more power for pulling a trailer, if required. Also, easier to find fuel. As 3Hummer stated, service stations where he lives are doing away with diesel, same here. Some are converting their diesel pumps to E85 (a wasted product, but that is for another discussion). So, it appears if I need diesel in a month or two, I would have to drive approx. 10 miles out of my way to get fuel. Great money savings....

Thanks for taking the time to google more stuff for us. Not to pick too much, I don't google because they store their searches indefinitely. What that means yet, who knows, just going with my gut. Actually, I use MSN search...google sucks, in my opinion, but it has become a work.
Spend a day searching? More like fifteen seconds. C'mon, you think I'm that involved in this krap? It would appear that you've spent a lot more time than that, I appreciate the effort.
OK, so it's not a GM company so much anymore. Big deal. The engine's made in Ohio still right? At this time, the present 6.6L is made in Ohio. But, will this change in 2010?:D

Like I said before, if people don't say what they want, they'll be stuck with what they get.... period. Then get about 50K people to write GM about a diesel, but again I say, marketing research at this time says a diesel, in this market is not something GM wants to invest in. Will this change? Sure it can change, people are finicky, so next year's market research might say a diesel is a good idea.

It's my guess that you're not done talking about diesels yet.....:beerchug:

Now I am since I see nothing else to add. If everyone wants to wish, or dream, who am I to destroy their dreams. If enough dream and write letters to GM asking for a diesel, then possibly their dreams will come true. Hell, I keep dreaming of winning the Megamillions with every ticket, but then I'm logical enough to know it will not happen, and my five dollars a week is at least going to support schools.:giggling:

[-=Mac=-]

If we don't have dreams, everything else becomes meaningless but that's a whole other subject.

I appreciate what you're saying, f5fstop- the market dictates what the manufacturers build but, as I said earlier, I would rather GM be a leader than a follower.

-Mac

[Huck BB62]

Nah, complacency is a good thing. Hell, that's what brought us AMC Matadors and Dodge Satellites while the Japanese were kicking our asses with their cars!

I bet they were saying..... If everyone wants to wish, or dream, who am I to destroy their dreams. If enough dream and write letters to GM asking for a fuel efficient, dependable, attractive car, then possibly their dreams will come true. Hell, I keep dreaming of winning the Megamillions with every ticket, but then I'm logical enough to know it will not happen, and my five dollars a week is at least going to support schools.:giggling:

[-=Mac=-]

Nah, complacency is a good thing. Hell, that's what brought us AMC Matadors and Dodge Satellites while the Japanese were kicking our asses with their cars!
No kidding... The "Big Three" spent a couple of decades learning a lesson which I'm still not convinced they've conquered... loyalty will only carry them so far.

-Mac

[Steve - SanJose]

Not seeing much loyalty to Big 3 around here at all. Don't think diesels are a big part of a successful GM turnaround. But I'm staying tuned and hopeful for more good products like the H3.

S.

[Huck BB62]

Have you ever driven a Duramax GM truck? I'd say that it has a LOT to do with GM truck sales since '01. I think that any power plant that gives fantastic power/torque and great mileage is going to help sales.

[JeffW]

GM seems to be putting all their foreign-oil-independent eggs in the E85 basket, but here in WA we don't have a single public E85 station. We do have quite a few biodiesel stations already and much more are on the way:

Grays Harbor port readies for biodiesel plant
By RACHEL LA CORTE
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Grays Harbor County will be home to an enormous biodiesel production plant under an agreement announced Tuesday involving Seattle-based Imperium Renewables.
The plant, to be built on land owned by the Port of Grays Harbor between Aberdeen and Hoquiam, will produce 100 million gallons of biodiesel a year. Construction began recently on a plant that will produce 85 million gallons per year in Velva, N.D.
Last year, national biodiesel production was just 75 million gallons, according to the Missouri-based National Biodiesel Board. By the end of the year, that number is expected to double.
...

With such momentum from Jeep and MB BlueTec, it definately seems like the General is missing the boat a bit.

[H3 Builder]

This is what Hummer has decided to do. They feel that Hummer will do better over seas with a diesel. The Colorado and Canyon were developed by Isuzu. The truck version of the Isuzu has the diesel available everywhere but the US. A number of things happened around the Colorado but GM decided to build Isuzu pickups in the US in exchange for Isuzu to supply diesel engines for H3 built in South Africa. But the majority will come with the I-5 motor. I have heard nothing of a diesel in the near term for US. But other things better to come. Stay tuned.

[blindzebra]

I think GM is vastly underestimating the market for diesel engines in H3s. Yes I understand what the market studies show. I also look back and see projects that went the opposite of the market created a whole new category unto itself. I think the new younger generation of young professionals would be very interested in a vehicle like this. It's small enough to daily driver and capable to take you to your weekend hobbies off the beaten trail. When you combine the small comfortable package with a heavy duty(for size) diesel engine and beefed up axles, I think the new YPs will gladly spend a few more dollars for quality. I think that it would be a bold move by GM, but I think they would profit suprisingly by its venture.

[-=Mac=-]

The market studies showed good things for the Aztec, didn't they?:giggling:

-Mac

[RubHer Yellow Ducky]

The market studies showed good things for the Aztec, didn't they?:giggling:

-Mac

TOUCHE :beerchug:

RYD

[Huck BB62]

Sometimes, to be a success, I think GM should go with what makes sense. Seriously, I look at the ads for the H3 and then look at this forum, and I can't for the life of me think of who GM thinks buys, or really wants the H3. The commercials are borderline ridiculous. Bling this, submarine that. Good grief.

Look at the Amstar Wilderness package. Look at the enthusiasm for it. Look at how willing people are to plop out the money for the Adventure package. Learn from it.

Make the H3 Dmax Alpha as I described above, they will come. They're chickensheeot, no vision dummies for listening to marketing a-holes when they should be at least offering an enthusiast version of the H3.

I'm willing to bet that the reason that they DON'T offer the H3 Alpha is that they're worried about mass sales. If I were a fly on the H3 meeting walls, I'm sure that was the decision.

[Lex_Ordo]

Here's another view of the motor issue.

Didn't GM put Turbo chargers in the Prototypes? Why didn't they make it to production? Seems that the power issue would have been curved a bit keeping the turbo or super charger in the lineup?

As for the diesel issue, I think it will require one of two things.
1) the market to change for diesel, requiring the companies to change
or
2) the companies building diesels requiring the fuel stations to now market it forcing the car buyer to change.

The average Joe, probably has no idea what's in his vehicle. From first hand experience with drivers, especially in a "ME " generation market like NY. These folks have absolutely no idea or desire to know what the prime mover of their car is. They just want to put the key in the ignition and go.
Sad, very sad. But this is the source for marketing info.

[Steve - SanJose]

But other things better to come. Stay tuned.

H3 Builder - please tell us a little more about the better things coming to the H3.

S.

[H3 Builder]

Here's another view of the motor issue.

Didn't GM put Turbo chargers in the Prototypes? Why didn't they make it to production? Seems that the power issue would have been curved a bit keeping the turbo or super charger in the lineup?

I don't know the perticulars, but it was canned right after it showed up on the show circuit.

[RubHer Yellow Ducky]

Lex[/SIZE]_Ordo]Here's another view of the motor issue.

Didn't GM put Turbo chargers in the Prototypes? Why didn't they make it to production? Seems that the power issue would have been curved a bit keeping the turbo or super charger in the lineup? This I agree with you!

As for the diesel issue, I think it will require one of two things.
1) the market to change for diesel, requiring the companies to change
or
2) the companies building diesels requiring the fuel stations to now market it forcing the car buyer to change.

The average Joe, probably has no idea what's in his vehicle. From first hand experience with drivers, especially in a "ME " generation market like NY. These folks have absolutely no idea or desire to know what the prime mover of their car is. They just want to put the key in the ignition and go.
Sad, very sad. But this is the source for marketing info.

Lex,

I think you have generalized a little on this,

PLUS

I believe over 90% of H-3 owners DO NOT fit your stated profile