Warranty dont cover T-Bar Crank

[aflax24]

Went to the dealer b/c I have som popping in vicinity of my torsion bars...Dealer said since I cranked the T-Bars that the warranty will not cover front end problems. AWESOME. Anyone else have this problem.

[HummBebe]

What Dealer?

[f5fstop]

What front end problems? Are you saying the dealer won't cover a shock, steering gear, etc., or just a condition that could have been caused by the cranking of the torsion bar?
If I were a dealer, and you came in with a front end noise, and the front had been cranked up, I would inform you that if the repair is due to your cranking the rod, you would pay. If caused by a warrantied item. GM will pay.

Let's face reality. GM, or any other manufacturer, warranties the vehicle as it is when it leaves the factory, for what the vehicle is designed to do when driven. If you perform any modifications to the vehicle, that might cause a secondary problem, then why should GM pays for the repair! However, due to some Federal Regs, one of which is the M/M act, GM would have to prove the modification caused the problem.

If you off-road a Corvette, GM won't pay for an axle damaged due to crawling rocks, if you off-road a H3, GM better pay for a blown axle...get the idea.

[algy]

It?s time for GM to man up!

I think GM has superbly marketed their line of SUVs and has burned quite an impression into the market that Hummer is a superior, rugged and capable off-road vehicle. When you compare the clientele of Hummer buyers to luxury vehicle buyers, there should be a high expectation that the vehicle will be used for more than grocery transport and Saturday night debauchery with the lady types.

If aflax24 needs to crank his T-bars so he can successfully run core samples of the Earth to scientist in Antarctica, there should be a level of professional understanding by GM to do what it takes to keep his truck running.

[yat74]

It?s time for GM to man up!

I think GM has superbly marketed their line of SUVs and has burned quite an impression into the market that Hummer is a superior, rugged and capable off-road vehicle. When you compare the clientele of Hummer buyers to luxury vehicle buyers, there should be a high expectation that the vehicle will be used for more than grocery transport and Saturday night debauchery with the lady types.

If aflax24 needs to crank his T-bars so he can successfully run core samples of the Earth to scientist in Antarctica, there should be a level of professional understanding by GM to do what it takes to keep his truck running.

I agree :perfect10s:

[usetosellhummer]

Come out come out bro... lot of people here can help and that is bull. call hummer customer service and start a ticket. then ask for in writing the refusal to repair or check for the problem. Then talk to the service Mgr. and GM. Then hummer. If that doesn't work call another dealer that might want you biz. All else fails call the state AG and start a file taht they will have to answer.

Come on let's go

[usetosellhummer]

The day soemthing like that happens i trade it in on another brand.

[f5fstop]

It?s time for GM to man up!

I think GM has superbly marketed their line of SUVs and has burned quite an impression into the market that Hummer is a superior, rugged and capable off-road vehicle. When you compare the clientele of Hummer buyers to luxury vehicle buyers, there should be a high expectation that the vehicle will be used for more than grocery transport and Saturday night debauchery with the lady types.

If aflax24 needs to crank his T-bars so he can successfully run core samples of the Earth to scientist in Antarctica, there should be a level of professional understanding by GM to do what it takes to keep his truck running.

Well, why stop there. Let's say he can twin turbo the five cylinder, do a complete power kit to the trans, smaller torque converter; damn the thought that GM only tested the vehicle the way it left the factory. Those GD supplies have to get there right away.

[f5fstop]

The day soemthing like that happens i trade it in on another brand.

If you are referring to my post...I guess it is time to sell. I agree maybe the dealer should first explain what happens if it is due to the cranking of the rods, but if the noise is due to the cranking of the rods, exactly how do you expect the dealer to repair? Will the dealer install an aftermarket item to prevent the noise, should they spend hundreds to invent something, should they pray over it?
Sorry, the dealer will only and should only do an authorized repair on the vehicle. Doing anything else, leaves the dealer open for possible legal problems in the future if their "homemade" fix fails.

[algy]

F5, one can only assume warranty is lost?

41282

I see your point, but based on a torsion adjustment, were not talking a catastrophic overhaul to the vehicle. Engineers building these types of vehicles must take in consideration the possibilities of a owner making these types of common adjustments to an intended off-road vehicle.

He should fight it, I know I would.

[stagger_lee]

Its a slippery slope, but I think I would respect f5's response. I think his original response was very open and right on. If your cranking Tbars caused the problem, its your problem. Mechanical failure otherwise is GMs problem. I find it hard to argue with that. As we say with doctors, get a second opinion. :beerchug:

[algy]

Its a slippery slope, but I think I would respect f5's response. :beerchug:


I respect any valid response, especially from F5; it won't stop me from a friendly debate though.

[HummBebe]

Went to the dealer b/c I have som popping in vicinity of my torsion bars...Dealer said since I cranked the T-Bars that the warranty will not cover front end problems. AWESOME. Anyone else have this problem.


If he is saying that in general "front end problems won't be covered because you turned the torsion bars" ask him why.

There is something up here.....

Dealers usually take a defensive stance like that if they already know something is not right with any mods, or if you are being unreasonable.

Did you crank them too high? If not, then chances are the problem, what ever they determine it to be should be covered.

I have had mine cranked, not to max but to about 23" ride height for almost 30K miles, and I have had no front end problems that were not covered under warranty.

In my experience, GM has totally backed the HUMMER product. And made a damm fine product too.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Aflax, find out how much out of spec you were on the t-bar crank. I doubt it's close, but you might still have a case. But with 35" tires, it probably doesn't matter. That's way out of spec.

[HummBebe]

What way out of spec??? 35's only make a difference from the ground to the front skidplate....does not change any angles that I am aware of.

Does it?

[f5fstop]

If I were a dealer, and you came in with a front end noise, and the front had been cranked up, I would inform you that if the repair is due to your cranking the rod, you would pay. If caused by a warrantied item. GM will pay.



Let me make it clear to all, I only mean the front end noise. I do not mean shocks, knuckles, steering, prop shaft, etc., so long as it is just a one or two inch raise of the front end.
If someone raises the front end one or two inches, and a thousand miles later a shock collapses, GM should warranty the item. However, adding more possible stress to a bushing or weld joint....Not too sure.

Oh, and here I will really stretch it, but something that is coming to all of us with the 2008 vehicles.
Scenario....
You crank up the front end two inches, you rear end someone, or have a head on, the H3 goes up and over and causes great bodily harm. Smart attorney, with a great investigator (and I know some fantastic ones that took early outs from GM/Ford and Chrysler in the past few years), who finds the front end was raised by the owner; thus making one hell of a great case for an attorney. Even if the accident was the other persons fault, their, or their relatives attorney could make a case that they would not have had as much damage if the vehicle was at stock height.

In the future, it might be more of a case, since on these high rise vehicles, a device is installed in the front to help prevent the vehicle from going up and over.

[stagger_lee]

I respect any valid response, especially from F5; it won't stop me from a friendly debate though.

:beerchug:

[marin8703]

Let me make it clear to all, I only mean the front end noise. I do not mean shocks, knuckles, steering, prop shaft, etc., so long as it is just a one or two inch raise of the front end.
If someone raises the front end one or two inches, and a thousand miles later a shock collapses, GM should warranty the item. However, adding more possible stress to a bushing or weld joint....Not too sure.

Oh, and here I will really stretch it, but something that is coming to all of us with the 2008 vehicles.
Scenario....
You crank up the front end two inches, you rear end someone, or have a head on, the H3 goes up and over and causes great bodily harm. Smart attorney, with a great investigator (and I know some fantastic ones that took early outs from GM/Ford and Chrysler in the past few years), who finds the front end was raised by the owner; thus making one hell of a great case for an attorney. Even if the accident was the other persons fault, their, or their relatives attorney could make a case that they would not have had as much damage if the vehicle was at stock height.

In the future, it might be more of a case, since on these high rise vehicles, a device is installed in the front to help prevent the vehicle from going up and over.

crazy laws these days, a person cant have yheir own property the way they want. but its gota be the way its gota be. :crying:

[Wisha Haddan H3]

What way out of spec??? 35's only make a difference from the ground to the front skidplate....does not change any angles that I am aware of.

Does it?

You're right, the extra height isn't much by itself. But I'm also thinking of tire weight and width.

The extra weight puts more stress on CVs and tie rods that are already angled out of spec. Between that, the t-bar preload, the new travel range and separation from the bump stop, the shocks are going to take a beating, which further stresses the front end. Tire weight also affects braking force and distance, and can cause heat buildup and glazing in the pads.

Steering components like tie rods and power steering pump will also suffer from the extra force required to overcome the larger contact patch. Then you take it on a trail and multiply all of the above by the stress of inertia and articulation.

[HummBebe]

You're right, the extra height isn't much by itself. But I'm also thinking of tire weight and width.

The extra weight puts more stress on CVs and tie rods that are already angled out of spec. Between that, the t-bar preload, the new travel range and separation from the bump stop, the shocks are going to take a beating, which further stresses the front end. Tire weight also affects braking force and distance, and can cause heat buildup and glazing in the pads.

Steering components like tie rods and power steering pump will also suffer from the extra force required to overcome the larger contact patch. Then you take it on a trail and multiply all of the above by the stress of inertia and articulation.

I guess the operative word here is "can". But in my case and Sewies, it hasn't so far.:D

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Yep, "can" is the word ... it's not like I've done the math on it or anything, but I can see a dealer nixing some warranty items because of it.

Don't get me wrong tho ... I'd LOVE a set of 35's! With the right setup, like Cognito or Fox shocks and limiter straps, a lot of that stress is absorbed at the shock and won't damage the next part in line.

[H3less]

So Aflax, how much did you crank the bars? I know I want to level the front end when it comes time. It seems there are plenty of you that have done it with no issues, what's the dealer's responce to that one?

[aflax24]

All I did was crank 2 turns and put on my 35s. I started getting a popping after a couple months, which dealer claims is from the TBars. The dealer (Bob Moore Hummer in OKC) put the 35's on for me and I cranked the bars. When I brought it in, they dropped the bars and said the noise went away then they went ahead and cranked them back up and gave me the car back to go on my way.

It seems to me that if the dealer can sell new H3's with lift kits and perfomance tunes under warranty that lt shouldnt be a problem to fix the problem that came from 2 turns of the bars?

[NEOCON1]

never ever admit to anything ;)

[H3less]

never ever admit to anything ;)
Good point:twak:

Are most dealers techs good enough to spot something like a crank on the t bars, or is it tough to tell with out measureing and stepping back and taking a good look from the side comparing it to another non lifted?

[aflax24]

No Sh1t...Too late for that...At least I learned my lesson...

Except for this incident, the dealer has been awesome. So I really should not be complaining too much.

[hummerabia]

Good point:twak:

Are most dealers techs good enough to spot something like a crank on the t bars, or is it tough to tell with out measureing and stepping back and taking a good look from the side comparing it to another non lifted?

Not in this neck of the woods;) They just think the raised appearance is due to fitting 33's:giggling: GMC dealer even did the alignment on warranty after I done mine a couple of turns:shhh:

[usetosellhummer]

F5 always the hard line with you and I understand it and love it. I come from real world Hummer sales, Management, and service. I have way too many stories to tell of mods including turbos that have been repaired under service warrenty. Bottom line. Customer service and as long as you don't go so far out of bounds it is major it should and will be covered. And if the dealer did pull that on me i would trade it. (has not happend yet)
Sold 4.5 million dollars of Hummer products
Demos: 03 H1, 98 H1, 03,04 H2
Owned 06 H3
Lovin my 07 H3

[Crash ?]

Let's face reality. GM, or any other manufacturer, warranties the vehicle as it is when it leaves the factory, .

Interesting.. So GM should only be liable to fix it if I'd left the right side adjusted a inch and half lower than the left.. Just like it was when I picked it up from the dealer..

BTW.. A walked around the dealer lot the other day while waiting on a service.. Over half of the H3s on the lot were lopsided by half an inch or more.. Most of them were lower on the right rather than the left.. Or maybe the left was just higher than the right..

[Steve - SanJose]

Interesting.. So GM should only be liable to fix it if I'd left the right side adjusted a inch and half lower than the left.. Just like it was when I picked it up from the dealer..

BTW.. A walked around the dealer lot the other day while waiting on a service.. Over half of the H3s on the lot were lopsided by half an inch or more.. Most of them were lower on the right rather than the left.. Or maybe the left was just higher than the right..

Mmmm, asphalt parking lots are rarely level too....

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Interesting.. So GM should only be liable to fix it if I'd left the right side adjusted a inch and half lower than the left.. Just like it was when I picked it up from the dealer..

BTW.. A walked around the dealer lot the other day while waiting on a service.. Over half of the H3s on the lot were lopsided by half an inch or more.. Most of them were lower on the right rather than the left.. Or maybe the left was just higher than the right..
It's really about the specs. Whether there were quality control issues at the factory or something settled during transport, GM is responsible for delivering trucks that meet their specs (mechanical, dimensional, longevity, reliability, etc). If not, GM has to bring the vehicle back to spec under warranty. Likewise, they can hold you to the same specs when you request warranty work after a mod.

The Magnusson-Moss act (passed in 1975) prevents manufacturers from voiding your entire warranty when you install equivalent aftermarket parts. However, if the parts aren't "equivalent" or damaged related systems, they can still deny coverage on that system.

[H3.007]

What kind of noise or damage was supposedly caused by the T-bar crank? And was it properly aligned after the adjustment?

As far as adjustment elading to an accident, if it passes inspection, I do not see how such customization can become a liability. If it passes DOT code, where is the issue? If they start arguing that perspective, I'll start arguing that the sheer ugliness of the FJ caused me to run over said driver - and I wash my hands of the incident. But then again, as long as you are on private property and the accident happens, the cops are not even willing to fine the perpetrator. I found that out the hard way. Unreal.

:jump:

[BigBill]

I think GM has superbly marketed their line of SUVs and has burned quite an impression into the market that Hummer is a superior, rugged and capable off-road vehicle. When you compare the clientele of Hummer buyers to luxury vehicle buyers, there should be a high expectation that the vehicle will be used for more than grocery transport and Saturday night debauchery with the lady types.

If aflax24 needs to crank his T-bars so he can successfully run core samples of the Earth to scientist in Antarctica, there should be a level of professional understanding by GM to do what it takes to keep his truck running.[/quote]

:iagree:

[BigBill]

I think GM has superbly marketed their line of SUVs and has burned quite an impression into the market that Hummer is a superior, rugged and capable off-road vehicle. When you compare the clientele of Hummer buyers to luxury vehicle buyers, there should be a high expectation that the vehicle will be used for more than grocery transport and Saturday night debauchery with the lady types.

If aflax24 needs to crank his T-bars so he can successfully run core samples of the Earth to scientist in Antarctica, there should be a level of professional understanding by GM to do what it takes to keep his truck running.[/quote]

:iagree:

[waynesoffroad]

Over the past 20 years I have owned over 15 new vehicles and all of them were lifted. I have never had any problems with work being covered under warrenty. Even with my F-350 with a 10" lift and 38's. The dealers in my area are even selling new vehicles with lifts already installed on them. That's BS!

[subunix]

Let me make it clear to all, I only mean the front end noise. I do not mean shocks, knuckles, steering, prop shaft, etc., so long as it is just a one or two inch raise of the front end.
If someone raises the front end one or two inches, and a thousand miles later a shock collapses, GM should warranty the item. However, adding more possible stress to a bushing or weld joint....Not too sure.

Oh, and here I will really stretch it, but something that is coming to all of us with the 2008 vehicles.
Scenario....
You crank up the front end two inches, you rear end someone, or have a head on, the H3 goes up and over and causes great bodily harm. Smart attorney, with a great investigator (and I know some fantastic ones that took early outs from GM/Ford and Chrysler in the past few years), who finds the front end was raised by the owner; thus making one hell of a great case for an attorney. Even if the accident was the other persons fault, their, or their relatives attorney could make a case that they would not have had as much damage if the vehicle was at stock height.

In the future, it might be more of a case, since on these high rise vehicles, a device is installed in the front to help prevent the vehicle from going up and over.

we put in a new bar in the front bumper to deal with that issue

[subunix]

never ever admit to anything ;)


:iagree:

[H3.007]

Interesting.. So GM should only be liable to fix it if I'd left the right side adjusted a inch and half lower than the left.. Just like it was when I picked it up from the dealer..

BTW.. A walked around the dealer lot the other day while waiting on a service.. Over half of the H3s on the lot were lopsided by half an inch or more.. Most of them were lower on the right rather than the left.. Or
maybe the left was just higher than the right..

I had my t-bars cranked by a garage with a professional, laser aimed, digital photo taking alignment machine (I think it controls the ISS too :giggling: ).

Anyway, they cranked the bars to level the H3 (within 1/4" of level at at all four corners) and then ran the alignment program - which was only 1/100th of an inch off at the 5,000 mile follow-up check. The tech stated the factory alignment, at least by his standards, was terrible. But he was impressed with just about everything else on the H3 and thought perhaps the issue was due to the vehicles being cranked down too tightly on the auto carriers when inbound to dealerships.... My frame was even scratched and chipped where the transporters had hooked on the chains and it initially sat lower on the right side. No worries though - Rustoleum to the rescue and truck bed coating to the rescue. The alignment did the rest.

:drama:

[dbphotos]

Hummer encourages everyone to run their vehicles off-road and put them in places that damage can happen, so much that they send mechanics and parts to all Hummer events. I agree that if you "mod" your Hummer you could stand to void your warranty on the specific parts you "modded" , but adjustinging a t-bar is certainly not a "mod", but a simple adjustment.

I would talk to the Service Manager and explain your concerns and if that doesn't rectify the situation then tell him/her that you will be opening a ticket with Hummer and then actually do it. My guess is that they will ultimately cover the issue.

Let us know how it turns out.