ATTN: H3 Brand Quality Manager

[HummBebe]

An open letter to the H3 Brand Quality Manager.

Dear Sir,

I am formally making a request that all H3 front differentials, be changed from the Cast Aluminum Housing, to the Cast Iron Housing.

Why, for a $90 difference, would you continue to ignore and brush aside an issue that puts your most loyal and dedicated users of your off-road product at such incredible risk of harm?

Twice now, in two years, I have been stranded in very remote areas, due to my Front Differential failure or others. We don?t leave our people behind on a trail. We will go to great lengths to make sure all are off the trail safely. It is and inconvenience to us and the other off-roaders we ride with.

I know of many others who have experienced the same problem all across this Country.

Is that a risk we take? Yes. Do we fully understand that risk? Yes.

However:

H2?s don?t have this issue.
H1?s don?t have this issue.

The known weaknesses in both the above-mentioned Hummer vehicles allow for a trail repair. You can carry a spare tie-rod for the H2; you can carry spare tie-rods and half shafts for the H1.

You cannot carry a spare Front Differential on the trail for the H3.

Leaving this component as is, for those of us that off-road regularly is becoming an increased liability for Hummer. When it breaks out on the trail, or on the road for that matter, the vehicle is COMPLETELY disabled.

There is no temporary repair, no way to disable the full-time 4-wheel drive, so that the vehicle can be driven in two wheel drive off the trail.

It may not be the highest complaint on your warranty reports, but it is certainly one of the more dangerous.

My friends and I have been caught in snowstorms, high deserts in the heat etc, having to strap and winch, for the better part of a full day, to get one or more COMPLETELY disabled H3?s off the trail. I wouldn?t shrug your shoulders at my request until you have done this yourself.

You and I both know, that it does not take abuse to destroy the ring and pinion gear, or crack the housing. It can be done quite easily. To the point, the claim of being able to scale 16? vertical wall should be removed, that is a recipe for disaster, especially if you try it one wheel at a time.

Quotes from your AD copy:

?It delivers all of H3?s renowned off-road capability?, ?real-world testing on off-road trails in Moab, Utah, the Rubicon Trail and other challenging off-road venues?,? The H3 lineup also delivers exceptional rock crawling and climbing performance?, and

?A HUMMER by any measure?



Source; http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2008-Hummer-H3-Alpha.htm (http://www.seriouswheels.com/cars/top-2008-Hummer-H3-Alpha.htm)

I respectfully disagree; this HUMMER falls a bit short in reliability compared to it?s predecessors. And, because we have to be very careful about the front differential, we require far more strapping and winching up obstacles than that of our predecessors.

This is an easily solved, quickly remedied problem. I am confident that I and my other Hummer off-road enthusiasts would greatly appreciate this small action from your department.

I am going to further request that your replace all of the current H3 off-road enthusiasts housings immediately. I for one do not want to wait for it to break again, leaving me stranded on yet another trail, causing my friends and I more inconvenience, and potential danger.

If this is something you decide to act upon, I can guarantee you this growing group of H3 off-roaders will be completely satisfied, and once again, enthusiastic about off-roading.

Respectfully yours,

Jacquelyne Theisen
AKA HummBebe

[deserth3]

Nice letter Humbebe. Hope it does some good

[wpage]

Good point. Hope its well taken...

[DennisAJC]

Dear Jacquelyne,

Thank you for your concern. I have 3 things to say to you;

1. You get what you pay for.
2. It's 90% driver, 10% rig.
3. Get a real Hummer. An H2.

Yours Truly,

H3 Brand Quality Manager




:jump::jump::jump::jump:

[Dave92270]

well written letter - seems like it is a serious issue and it scares me off since I go out on the trail alone.. lets hope GM will address this. how many of you guys/gals around had the front diff problem already?

[HummBebe]

This not meant to be taken out of context, but it fits perfectly here, I hope you don't mind Rocks?

Usually I don't say too much about these issues, but as far as Hummer goes, they either want these vehicles to be capable at offroading, or they don't.

If they want to pander to Hollywood street queens, fine. Just don't market any offroading capability.

If they want it to go anywhere besides the dang grocery store, they need to pony up and fix these trucks so people aren't breaking things out in the middle of nowhere.

They already sell Escalades and Yukons for people that don't do this type of wheeling.

Shouldn't the Hummer stand up to the name and the image?

Wasn't the H3 the answer to peoples concerns about an affordable, narrower, off road vehicle? I'm beginning to wonder...

[HummBebe]

Let's not forget to mention how many we've broken:

BB=2 :rant:

[ROX]

I don't mind. In fact, I hope GM is reading. This is a Hummer Board, and this is where their consumers meet and discuss issues involving HUMMER. This is one topic they can no longer ignore. I look forward to hearing their response...:popcorn:

[timgco]

I think the issue of the the diff breaking should have been addressed ealier in production. Hell, I had mine replaced along with the transmission and it had only seen a couple of moderate trails and one 1200 mile road trip.

Also something for the HUMMER reps to keep in mind is that HUMMER owners will add and upgrade parts!

The addition of 35's, a "ton" of accessories, recovery gear, tools, passengers, and a poop bag is just too much for these H3's apparently.

I understand the extra stresses of adding the weight and larger tires!!!! I do. I have added this to H3 and had issues. SO have a few others that I have talked with. I have added larger tires and wieght to SEVEN H2's and only had one tierod issue.

I hope beebs upgrades to an H2 now! She's had wayyyyy too many issues on the trail with that front diff.....along with many others.
:popcorn:

Out of curiosity, how many have blown a diff on their H3? DId you have the stock tires or larger? Maybe a list would help those looking in on our forum. Other than the dealers, wher else can they get "constructive" feeback from many owners at one time?

..poor beebs.

+1 to those that helped with the recovery!!! It's great to see other group help out in a time of need.

[ROX]

I
The addition of 35's, a "ton" of accessories, recovery gear, tools, passengers, and a poop bag is just too much for these H3's apparently.:jump: too funnie!!

[HummBebe]

Thank you Tim, but just to clarify a couple of things:

I personally have been strapped for several hours off a trail ONCE…Golden Spike- April 2006. (8 teeth off the ring gear, chipped pinion gear)

I have broken the diff case shortly after in September of ’06, but my vehicle was drivable. (It broke because of the “carrier” bracket bushing wearing, which allowed the prop shaft to slam into the back of the diff when I put it into gear thus cracking the case and chipping the pinion gear, again.)

Many hypothesized that it was because of the 35’s….it wasn’t. Folks with 33’s were doing it too.

How many H2’s with 37’s pop front diffs? None. It’s just not a viable analogy in this case.
If it was due to 35’s, for as many diffs that have been changed out, GM/HUMMER would have said….those with 35’s do not get repaired under warranty. They haven’t done that, because they know, it’s the aluminum case, not the tires.

The Engineers run 35’s on their trucks, Rod Hall runs 35’s on his personal H3.

It’s a non-issue here. It is simply cause by too much torque and an Aluminum housing.

Aside from this trip, EVERYTHING I have broken was prior to adding the off road gear, winch, poopbag included, to my H3. I have made many modifications to support the weight added. HD Torsion bars, very nice shocks, leaf springs, etc...

I still made it off the trail with a broken locker, t-case and winch. I drove all the way home and then to the dealership.

I just don’t want to have to wait to wait for it to break again, get strapped of a trail again, and then have to partially pay for an upgrade THAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE IN THE FIRST PLACE.

dammit.:mad:

[H3slate]

Well said HummBebe! Just like they decided to put the 3.7 in all H3's, they need to man up and put the cat iron diff. in all H3's.

[kma]

In my experience, GM has totally backed the HUMMER product. And made a damm fine product too.

:giggling:

[GreenH3]

I have also lost a front diff. Only moderate off-roading and still on original Bridgestone Dueler A/T 33"s. 2006 Green H3, 52K miles. Hummer needs to step forward and do the right thing.

[LesC.]

Dear H3 Brand Quality Manager,
Thanks for the cast iron front differential you chose for my H3 alpha.
:beerchug:

[subunix]

:iagree: also I think Youre right that they need to change them for all H3's not just the alpha. I know exactly why they havent..... $90 for every H3 is something they wouldnt even consider looking at. We eliminate rosebuds to save $.05 it doesnt make sense but it doesnt make a business case either... trust me ive been trying to talk them into it and its not happening right now... just my 2 cents

[3Hummer]

may be 90 bucks on each H3, but considering the amount of money the loose repairing them from warrenty who knows if it equals out or surpasses that amount. Anyway i cant wait to see the response. And i totally agree that this is where most Hummer users that use their rigs dsicuss and if this is an issue amongts us offroaders then they should really take a look at that.

[deserth3]

For all you folks that have lost a front diff have you read and followed the instructions as outline on page 7-2 and 7-3 of you owners manual?
Next time I'm in the dealership I plan on talking to the service manager with my own concerns about the differential. Though I haven't broken the front yet it sounds like a very real possibility. Jerry Seiner so far has been excellent with my needs and concerns.
The BBB Auto Line also has a web site; http://www.dr.bbb.org/autoline/index.asp

Here is another posibility; http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/

[HummBebe]

may be 90 bucks on each H3, but considering the amount of money the loose repairing them from warrenty who knows if it equals out or surpasses that amount.

And that's exactly the point. At what point do we as consumers, beyond that, enthusiasts, get considered for the amount and level of inconvenience and DANGER of being stranded far from help, food water, shelter, etc????

Been there, done that X2. Not willing to do it again.:rant:

[FutureBeachBum]

has anyone had their original front diff switched out to the cast iron version?

If so, was it done at a dealer?, how much?

[Alan06SUT]

And that's exactly the point. At what point do we as consumers, beyond that, enthusiasts, get considered for the amount and level of inconvenience and DANGER of being stranded far from help, food water, shelter, etc????
Been there, done that X2. Not willing to do it again.:rant:


I agree they should put in the cast iron case.

And please don't take this the wrong way.... I heart beebee and all you've done for the trails and hummers, but as for the part eluding that the differential put you in danger far from help, I just cant see that as a valid point to your argument.

We all make decisions to go offroading and we put ourselves in the above mentioned dangers. I think that you should leave that point out of your argument to hummer and just stick with the reliability and excessive falure rates so they can't try to discredit you on that one point and therefore not pay attention to your very valid argument. Wheeling is risky and obviously you guys were prepared and had a back up plan to get out of there, etc. I/ we here know you are more than responsible and prepared wheeler.

I am just bringing this up an an editing thing so they can't put any bullets into your letter.

Good luck with the whole warranty thing, don't forget how much you love your hummer and your hummer family in stressful times! I am optomistic that they will take care of it for you, you may have to rattle some cages though. Take care.

[justforfun]

Good letter Beebs...

With regards to tires, mods etc - mine is standard base model running 32" tires and my front diff went on me around 3mths ago - my car was in the dealer for 4 WEEKS as no parts in the Middle East and according to Service Manager - GM U.S.A had none in stock either... WTF? :rant:

As a result of the dealer trying to use the original casing - the car has now been in the dealer for 3 weeks, and I don't expect to get it back for another 2-3 weeks while they wait for a complete new diff assembly including the casing.

So... apart from the fact the diff's are a known problem, it's obviously considered okay for a customer to be without a car purchased new from the company for over 2 MONTHS due entirely to the front diff? :rant: :rant:

Yeah, my dealer screwed up, but if the diff was good in the first place it wouldn't have happened. ;)

I really do hope someone in GM takes notice... otherwise, they'll lose sales for those that are gonna buy a car for use off-road and do a bit of research first!!

Cheers
JFF

[3Hummer]

snap, justforfun, that does not sound fun haha. They havent given you an update on how much longer for the diff? You should ask them to get you the cast iron one that is in the H3 Alpha. And meanwhile while they have your H3 did they at least give you a loaner h3 to drive for the time being?

[justforfun]

snap, justforfun, that does not sound fun haha. They havent given you an update on how much longer for the diff? You should ask them to get you the cast iron one that is in the H3 Alpha. And meanwhile while they have your H3 did they at least give you a loaner h3 to drive for the time being?

Yep got a loaner H3 - slate blue - from them (after getting the dealer GM involved!)... we had an event planned when mine was "supposed" to be returned.... told them exactly what I was doing with it too... and to be fair, they didn't seem fazed! This is it below:

http://i127.photobucket.com/albums/p150/HavanaPint/DSC01930.jpg

As for updates, they do keep me informed - service staff are excellent, but the workshop? :lame:

Contacted them today to see if they can get a cast iron one out here... took a bit of explaining as they didn't know much about it, but will see what happens... suffice to say, I aint gonna hold my breath!!!

JFF

[MarineHawk]

has anyone had their original front diff switched out to the cast iron version?

If so, was it done at a dealer?, how much?

I'd like to know too. I assume it can be done, right? If it's just $90 plus labor, it can't be that bad, right? Not saying it should't be free via GM, but when I paid about $200 parts/labor to get the HD tie rods installed less than a week after I bought my H2, I didn't think too much of it. I also didn't think too much of it when I upgraded tires a few weeks later.

I agree they should put in the cast iron case.

And please don't take this the wrong way.... I heart beebee and all you've done for the trails and hummers, but as for the part eluding that the differential put you in danger far from help, I just cant see that as a valid point to your argument.

We all make decisions to go offroading and we put ourselves in the above mentioned dangers. I think that you should leave that point out of your argument to hummer and just stick with the reliability and excessive falure rates so they can't try to discredit you on that one point and therefore not pay attention to your very valid argument. Wheeling is risky and obviously you guys were prepared and had a back up plan to get out of there, etc. I/ we here know you are more than responsible and prepared wheeler.

I am just bringing this up an an editing thing so they can't put any bullets into your letter.


:iagree: It's not too far from claiming that the stock H2 is "dangerous" because the stock tires aren't as puncture-resistant or as good in the mud as some more-expensive tires (a $1,500+ upgrade); and GM does not provide a winch or winching gear stock for remote off-roading.
Thus, H2 owners might get stuck out in the boonies and become severely mauled by a bear. For that matter, no H3 (at least 2007) comes standard with the UCP and rocker panels.

I totally agree that these vehicles should come with a better front diff stock, but I also agree with Alan that the danger or being stranded argument (though not necessarily incorrect) won't likely get GM to act. It's far more of a safety stretch to them than defective brakes, airbag, etc. The basic point is: Will the H3 reliably do what GM claims it will do with the stock diff? If not, it's defective and should be fixed--same as with a defective radio or cd player.

[CO Hummer]

I saw someone post a good point about H3s being advertised, by GM, to tackle the Moab trails. Yet the tough Moab trails eat H3s differentials like nothing.

GM can't be responsible for everything. But they outta backup their Moab claims with vehicles that actually can do Golden Spike routinely without total failure.

[DennisAJC]

HAHAHA!!!!


I remember a long time ago(:giggling:) when this kind of H3 talk was considered TROLLING and got flamed for it.

:jump::OWNED::jump:


Coming soon to the H3 Forum: An "I TOLD YOU SO" Thread.:clapping:

[HummBebe]

Maybe the H2 owners could provide rants about how inconvenient it is to wheel with us???:fdance:

[HummBebe]

Yet the tough Moab trails eat H3s differentials like nothing.

Not if you strap up :fdance:

[3Hummer]

just take some H2's through 24 inches and have them be a sitting duck (no pun intended on the yellow ones) and well see which vehicle comes out on top haha

[CO Hummer]

Maybe the H2 owners could provide rants about how inconvenient it is to wheel with us???:fdance:

There is a place for wheeling with the H3ers. For example, H2 guys that recently bought a new winch or tow strap should be encouraged to get comfortable with their new equipment. Wheeling with the 3s is a great opportunity for that.

[CO Hummer]

just take some H2's through 24 inches and have them be a sitting duck (no pun intended on the yellow ones) and well see which vehicle comes out on top haha

Very good point. I'm constantly watching those off-road & rock crawling competitions where the really good wheeling rigs are ones that can cross a stream. :rolleyes: :D

[Birdman]

There is a place for wheeling with the H3ers. For example, H2 guys that recently bought a new winch or tow strap should be encouraged to get comfortable with their new equipment. Wheeling with the 3s is a great opportunity for that.


CO,
Don't forget that wheeling with the 3ers can also provide you a real shot at getting some after-wheeling hotel room action South Carolina style!

[timgco]

just take some H2's through 24 inches and have them be a sitting duck (no pun intended on the yellow ones) and well see which vehicle comes out on top haha

Someone on here has a pic of my SUT in about 3ft on teh Cane Creek Trail in Moab. no issues and no water inside. On the other hand I didn;t get a chance to try that in the H3 when I had it.

[DennisAJC]

HAHAHAHA!!!!!

The fight is gone. They are a beaten people.:OWNED:

[MarineHawk]

just take some H2's through 24 inches and have them be a sitting duck (no pun intended on the yellow ones) and well see which vehicle comes out on top haha

Yeah, we're scared of the depp water.

[MarineHawk]

Not.

[HummBebe]

It's not even over the top of your tires light weight.....:fdance:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff97/hummbeebee/FordyceOct07070.jpg

[Big Dad]

Those are some awesome pics...reminds me of moose hunting off of quads back home.

[MarineHawk]

It's not even over the top of your tires light weight.....:fdance:


True. But my tires are 13" taller than the 24" supposed H2 barrier. Nice pic.

[lance-n]

i just hope the "poop bags" you guys are discussing are disposable and not reuseable - really gross!!!

[3Hummer]

so far the only h2 water fording pic ive seen that can fare well against my argument is the one of hummbebe. im probably wrong but in the orignal thread i read with that pic didnt you get stuck>?? or was that some other place?

[Sewie]

so far the only h2 water fording pic ive seen that can fare well against my argument is the one of hummbebe.

That's H2 Rocks in that pic. And its a stupid argument. ;)

[3Hummer]

i knew it wasnt her, i was like hmm maybe she got a new one or something.

[wpage]

The H3 Product Manager Has some work to do...:confused:
We need a new thread listing things to do!!:violin:
1.Suggestion Improved Transmissions:popcorn:

[CO Hummer]

That's H2 Rocks in that pic. And its a stupid argument. ;)

X100.

Holding onto the water fording capabilities as the cornerstone of your rig's ability to wheel is ridiculous.

What would you rather have - a differential that actually works offroad or the ability to go two inches deeper in the water. Hmmm.

[Alan06SUT]

This is 35 plus inches of fording (mud line was at the top of the tires). H2 on 37's. The H3's with me got high centered (thanks to the ruts myself and an H1 on 39's dug).
http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i16/acablik/HummerExperience10-9-06034Medium.jpg

[Demo]

Hey Bebe, good luck with this. I hope Hummer steps up and fixes this problem before they lose you and many other "real" hummer owners. I sold my H3 two months after my front diff was fixed. I could not trust that it would not happen again (time and again) after seeing how easy it broke. I miss my H3 but I don't miss having to baby a hummer offroad to keep from breaking it.