Upgrading the steering

[VegasGuy]

After reading dozens of posts about the H2 front steering, I am going to upgrade my H2. It only has 20,000 miles and still has the OEM parts. Nothing is wrong. I just want to address some weak points before I have a problem.

What is the difference between the Cognito GM 8-Lug HD Tie Rods ($230) and the Cognito Chevy 8-Lug & Hummer H2 Tie Rod Kit ($360) beside the price. I am not sure which to buy and have yet to see a discussion on the differences.

Do Fabtech tie rods have any advantage over the Cognito's or visa versa?

As long as I'm doing that, I thought I might as well add the Cognito Chevy 8-Lug & Hummer H2 Pitman/Idler System. Others seem to like this product and strongly recommend it.

I am going to add the Rancho Hummer H2 Steering Stabilizer. I'm not sure it is worth doing the shocks at this time.

Should I add the Cognito GM 8-Lug & Hummer H2 HD Sway Bar End Links right away?

Are these parts something a handy guy with a lot of tools but no front end experience (which explains all the questions) is capable of putting on himself? About how many hours?

Am I overlooking anything that really should be done at this time?

I assume I will need to get the front end re-aligned afterward, right?

I'm trying to get a handle of this project and make sure I am not leaving something out or skipping something that would be easier to do while everything is apart. Thanks in advance.

[splne1]

Looks like you have it all worked out, Cognito and Fabtech are pretty much the same, I have cognitos on my rig.

[VegasGuy]

Thanks, splne1. I have continued to dig around and found an excellent pictorial on how to install the GM 8-Lug Pitman and Idler Arm Support Kit on the home page of the Pirate 4x4 site. That, and a few YouTube videos answered a lot of questions.

[Quijy]

LOL, I just got done doing almost the same thing. The following has been installed just last week in my h2.

MOOG pitman and idler arms
Cognito pitman and idler support kit
Rare Parts tie rods
Rancho stabilizer

What a difference that made in the steering. I have 52k on the rig and never had a problem. Like you I did it simply to prevent a problem later. I had planned to install everything on my own, but when I called around to get the alignment a very good 4 wheel drive shop offered to install all of it, and do the alignment for 280 bucks. Totally worth it because they did it in 3 hours and they had run into one problem with binding on the pitman stud after the support kit was installed. They resolved it is a few minutes with parts I would not have had in the driveway. So you may want to call around and get the work done.

I am debating on doing the sway bar links as well. Waiting on my Gobi rack to come first.

[VegasGuy]

Thanks for the info, Quijy.

What was the deciding factor in using Rare Parts tie rods? I was just looking at them and they seem pretty beefy. It's hard to tell by comparing pictures, but they seem to have a bigger diameter than the rods on either Fabtech or Cognito.

Here's a break test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRSjXnvas_8

[Quijy]

I have seen some posts of the fabtech and cognitio rods breaking. But then again the rare parts rods have not been out long. Or maybe used on the hummers as long as the others. When I took them to my 4x4 shop the guy looked at them and said, I have not seen these in about 25 years. He did say they looked like the design had been improved but basically the same old school design. He was impressed with them when done. I chose them because I figured they were a straighter design. And looked larger diameter than the fab or cog, plus I had some recommendations from others to use them. Overall I am very happy with my front end. I have no worries with possible problems in the future.

[VegasGuy]

I have seen some posts of the fabtech and cognitio rods breaking.
My guess is the spindle end broke and not the rod. But then, I'm no expert on the subject.

[seventwozero]

LOL, I just got done doing almost the same thing. The following has been installed just last week in my h2.

MOOG pitman and idler arms
Cognito pitman and idler support kit
Rare Parts tie rods
Rancho stabilizer



Is there a difference between OE and the MOOG's? I was looking at the MOOG's online but couldn't see a physical difference between the two really.

[Quijy]

From what I have read the quality of the MOOGs are better than OEM. They last longer than OEM as well. I had 52k on my stock parts and they did have some wear but not enough to be concerned with.

[tomp]

Main difference in Moog vs OEM is on the Idler arm. It is much thicker arm than the OEM arm, so less flex in the arm. Also, the joints are stronger than OEM on both P&I arms

[tomp]

The rare parts tie rods are better than the chinese crap metal used in both the Fabtech and Cognito rods. When fabtech first came out with them, they were great but China changed the type of metal and now they dont last even marginally amoutn of mileage - total junk now!

Rare parts are made in US wqith high quality hardened American steel. All part are also available seperately so you only have to but the parts you need to rebuild them down the road! Try doing this with Fabtech (have to buy entire kit again) or Cognito (will sell them but you have to but them at almost cost of buying the entire kit!) The Cognito heim joint version is decent if you dont live near salt or sand areas but be warned that even mud is gritty in texture and always ends up all over the heim joints

[Scarsman]

So Rare Parts are the ones to go with these days? I just found out my stock ones are starting to get a little play in them, so I will need to replace them soon. I will be upgrading them, and I am researching options right now.

[KT2T]

I am starting to put together a parts list right now for my front end as well. It's good to know about the quality of the Rare Parts, and even more so the decline in quality of the Fabtechs! There is a ton of information around, but nothing that I could point to and say "yup, this is the definitive list of upgrades for the H2 front end", so I am going to try and make such a list with the help of you guys. It may not be applicable to everyone because I also want to level the H2 by raising up the front end a little bit.

So far, I have (Cognito parts listed):

o UCAK100044 (H2 Uni-ball Upper Control Arms)
o UCAK100001 (front end level kit)
o BILSTEIN-BE5-E381-T0 (longer-than-stock shocks for use with o UCAK100001)
o SBELKHD-1000 (end-links for use with UCAK100001)
o PISK2008 (pitman/idler support kit)
o IPAWG8 (Idler Pivot kit)
o TRK100045 (tie rods)

Based on what I have read thus far in this thread, I will dump the TRK100045 tie rods for the Rare Parts (part number anyone?).

Please keep the suggestions coming guys, thanks a ton!

[seventwozero]

I was looking on the rare parts site and have seen their tie rods, they also make their own pitman and idler's among other parts. Does anyone have anything to offer regarding their parts? I wonder if the Cognito support kit would still fit with the rare parts p/i arms.. and if the added cost is worth it? For what its worth, I probably won't be doing extreme rock crawling or anything like that.

edit: since I'll need an alignment after the work is done, I'm trying to do the majority of it at once.

[VegasGuy]

So Rare Parts are the ones to go with these days? I just found out my stock ones are starting to get a little play in them, so I will need to replace them soon. I will be upgrading them, and I am researching options right now.
When I get some time in my schedule this is the combo I am going to go with. The price seems pretty good:

http://dmaxstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23_173_137&products_id=273

[seventwozero]

When I get some time in my schedule this is the combo I am going to go with. The price seems pretty good:

http://dmaxstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23_173_137&products_id=273

The price is pretty dang nice, I think from Rare Parts the rods are about $200/ea and the Congnito kit is $200'ish as well. (correct me if I'm wrong) Will you replace your p/i arms with OEM replacements or something else?

[KT2T]

Update, and a question...

o UCAK100044 (Cognito - H2 Uni-ball Upper Control Arms)
o UCAK100001 (Cognito - front end level kit)
o BILSTEIN-BE5-E381-T0 (Cognito - longer-than-stock shocks for use with UCAK100001)
o SBELKHD-1000 (Cognito - end-links for use with UCAK100001)
o PISK2008 (Cognito - pitman/idler support kit)
o IPAWG8 (Cognito - Idler Pivot kit)
o RP28559 (Rare Parts - Xtreme Duty Tie Rods)

Ok, so I found the part number for the Rare Parts tie rods and listed it above, but while looking at the DMAX store I also noticed the DMAX KRYPTONITE Series Tie Rods (http://dmaxstore.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=23_173_137&products_id=377). The cost is $70 more than the Rare Parts tie rods, but not sure the cost is justified.

Thanks guys, keep the suggestions and ideas coming. Once the list is honed then maybe I/we can do a complete kit deal search.

[VegasGuy]

The price is pretty dang nice, I think from Rare Parts the rods are about $200/ea and the Congnito kit is $200'ish as well. (correct me if I'm wrong) Will you replace your p/i arms with OEM replacements or something else?
Mine are fine for now and I've never heard of them breaking (like the tie rods will). So if it ain't broke . . .

[HumminNBoatin']

Great info guys. I have the Fabtechs now. While they have stood the test of offroad durability the inner ball joints are worn and I am on the market for new ones. From what I understand Fabtech uses a nylon bushing on the innter ball joint that wears down.... I just wonder if there is a way to service this? Maybe replace it with a brass bushing???

[KT2T]

Hey Eric,

I was just reading through your old thread (http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36505) and wanted to ask about the 'green keys'. Are the green keys required when using the Cognito kit? As far as I can tell, the Cognito kit provides new upper control arms and shock mount extender brackets* but doesn't actually raise the front end, is that right? If that's true then either the stock keys need to be turned up, or swapped out with the green keys.

* - I won't use the brackets and will opt for longer shocks instead (BILSTEIN-BE5-E381-T0). :beerchug:

[HumminNBoatin']

Hey Eric,

I was just reading through your old thread (http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36505) and wanted to ask about the 'green keys'. Are the green keys required when using the Cognito kit? As far as I can tell, the Cognito kit provides new upper control arms and shock mount extender brackets* but doesn't actually raise the front end, is that right? If that's true then either the stock keys need to be turned up, or swapped out with the green keys.

* - I won't use the brackets and will opt for longer shocks instead (BILSTEIN-BE5-E381-T0). :beerchug:

Correct its the green keys that give you the lift. In most cases the factory keys do not have enough adjustment left to effectively lift the H2. The H2 keys were designed for 3/4 ton trucks that actually weigh less than the H2 so from the factory they are already cranked further than they would be on a 2500 truck.

I am going with the new Racho RS5000's They just released a set for a torsion bar lifted H2. Now if someone just had them in stock....

[SteelsH2]

http://www.fourwheeler.com/techarticles/drivetrain/129_0806_gm_steering_column_repair/index.html.

I am thinking the Borgeson steering shaft needs to be the first steering upgrade for my new to me 2005 H2.

Anyone disagree that this is a good first mod for H2 steering?

[VegasGuy]

Looks like an easy solution for anyone having the clunking issue. Thanks for the heads up.

[seventwozero]

I'm sitting down to make my order and I ran into the question; whats the difference between the 3 groove and 4 groove splines on the pitman arms? (moog brand specifically)

[EuroHummer]

Has anybody tried these tie rods. $179 each.

http://www.hendersonslineup.com/products/steering-and-tracking/supersteer-heavy-duty-gm-tie-rod-8-lug.html

They are the ones who make the idler arm support and brace kit-$392

http://www.hendersonslineup.com/products/steering-and-tracking/supersteer-ss175k8-idler-arm-support-and-brace-kit-assembly-8-lug.html

Here is the page that shows what they make/sell-

http://www.hendersonslineup.com/products/pick-up-truck-and-suv/steering-and-tracking.html

I am going with supersteer parts to upgrade my H2 front end after looking at every other brand. If you notice, Cognito is selling their parts as well. They also have upgrades for the rear suspension.

[KT2T]

I looked at the installation instructions for the SS175 on their site and there are no specific instructions for the H2 as there are in the Cognito IPAWG8 installation documentation. Hmm. The Cognito documentation is very specific, with pictures, regarding the installation of the IPAWG8 in a HUMMER H2, and even if it is the same part as the Henderson, I will support the vendor who goes to that amount of trouble to detail H2-specific modifications.


o UCAK100001 (Cognito - front end level kit)
o BILSTEIN-BE5-E381-T0 (Cognito - longer-than-stock shocks for use with UCAK100001)
o SBELKHD-1000 (Cognito - end-links for use with UCAK100001)
o PISK2008 (Cognito - pitman/idler support kit)
o IPAWG8 (Cognito - Idler Pivot kit)
o RP28559 (Rare Parts - Xtreme Duty Tie Rods)
o RS5407 (Rancho steering stabilzer)
o GM green keys (3" lift to the front) $44 15592573 (ORDERED)


After talking to Cognito, I have opted for the UCAK00001 over the UCAK00044 since the -01 has bolt-on, replaceable balljoints instead of the pressed-in uniballs of the -44.

I have a call in to the DMAXSTORE right now to get some specifics on the differences between the Rare Parts Xtreme Duty tie rods and their DMAX KRYPTONITE series tie rods. I will post a follow-up with those details.

[Hellz]

Correct its the green keys that give you the lift. In most cases the factory keys do not have enough adjustment left to effectively lift the H2. The H2 keys were designed for 3/4 ton trucks that actually weigh less than the H2 so from the factory they are already cranked further than they would be on a 2500 truck.

I am going with the new Racho RS5000's They just released a set for a torsion bar lifted H2. Now if someone just had them in stock....

when you find out that information, let me know as i plan on replacing my front shocks, but no lift other than Tbars.

[NJ H2]

I have a call in to the DMAXSTORE right now to get some specifics on the differences between the Rare Parts Xtreme Duty tie rods and their DMAX KRYPTONITE series tie rods.


I'm interested in DMAX's response as well.
Maybe try and set up a group buy

[Scarsman]

I'm interested in DMAX's response as well.
Maybe try and set up a group buy

Excelent idea! Let us know what you find out.

[VegasGuy]

I'm interested in DMAX's response as well.
Maybe try and set up a group buy
Count me in as another who would participate.

[KT2T]

I'm interested in DMAX's response as well.
Maybe try and set up a group buy

Got a voicemail from a guy at the dmaxstore and the gist of it is that the KRYPTONITE bars are a bit 'thicker' and can be adjusted on both the inner and outer sides, whereas the Rare Parts tie rods can only be adjusted from the inside.

Personally, I think I am going to go with the Rare Parts tie rods for two reasons. One, I think (and could be wrong) that the one-piece outer of the Rare Parts would be more robust then the threaded stud that makes the KRYPTONITE adjustable on the outside. The other reason is that I just don't see $70 worth of difference that would draw me away from the Rare Parts tie rods.

Thus far, the only site I can find that has all of the kits parts I want, sans Rare Parts tie rods, is Trail Duty. I will keep digging and update my list of vendors (with prices), but unless something big turns up then I will probably get it all (minus tie rods) from Trail Duty and then pick up the Rare Parts tie rods from DMAXSTORE. Of course, if there is enough interest in this whole package then maybe a group buy for the kit could be possible if someone wants to run with it.

[NJ H2]

After speaking to the DMAX store I think I am going to go with the KRYPTONITE! It's made by RarePArts to DMAX specs which they claim to be much stronger than RareParts. Alos KRYPTONITE have a longer 5 year Waranty.

[VegasGuy]

After speaking to the DMAX store I think I am going to go with the KRYPTONITE! It's made by RarePArts to DMAX specs which they claim to be much stronger than RareParts. Alos KRYPTONITE have a longer 5 year Waranty.
I could go for the Kryptonite tie rods if DMAX could put together a similar combo deal like the Rare Parts tie rods and Cognito Support Kit. That combo saves you about $100 compared to other on-line sources where you buy them separately.

[Hellz]

just to clarify,

i would be interested in the Rancho shocks for 2" T Bars lifts.

I have the Fabtech Tierods that will be going on at some point.

[NJ H2]

I could go for the Kryptonite tie rods if DMAX could put together a similar combo deal like the Rare Parts tie rods and Cognito Support Kit. That combo saves you about $100 compared to other on-line sources where you buy them separately.

I asked DMAX about a Group buy and they said that the price they offer the KRYPTONITE for is the lowest they can go without outsourcing to China and we definatly don't want that to happen so unless they can offer the other parts you want for less a group buy is out. I already have the cognito sup kit and Moog Ball Joints so I am only gettting the KRYPTONITE T Rods.

[VegasGuy]

Can't blame a guy for asking. Thanks.

[LEcustoms]

I'm sitting down to make my order and I ran into the question; whats the difference between the 3 groove and 4 groove splines on the pitman arms? (moog brand specifically)

Just replaced my pitman and idler you need the three groove moog pitman arm I believe part number is(mog k6535)

[KT2T]

Well, I have the following sitting in my garage right now:

o UCAK100001 (Cognito - front end level kit)
o BILSTEIN BE5-E381-T0 (longer front shocks)
o SBELKHD-1000 (Cognito - end-links for use with UCAK100001)
o PISK2008 (Cognito - pitman/idler support kit)
o DMAXSTORE KRYPTONITE HD Tie Rods (red)
o RS5407 (Rancho steering stabilzer)
o GM green keys (3" lift to the front)

:jump:

I am taking some time off next week while everyone else is at work/school, so I hope to have all of this installed by Friday. If I can get my old camera working (don't want grime on good camera) then I will take pictures along the way. Since I don't have a welder (yet), I didn't go for the Cognito Idler Pivot kit (IPAWG8) at this time, but will by this time next year.

By the way, those KRYPTONITE HD tie rods are gargantuan and I can't find a 1.75" crowfoot anywhere near here. Looks like I will be guestimating on the torque for the inners with a open-end wrench. Bleh.

:lame:

[HumminNBoatin']

when you find out that information, let me know as i plan on replacing my front shocks, but no lift other than Tbars.

Sorry for taking so long to get back on this post!! I Bought the RANCHO
RS5370 shocks up front. These are specifically made for a t-bar lifted H2 and I gotta tell you the truck rides like a Cadillac with these things.

I got them from Summit for like $45/ea. It will say special order only. Dont worry just order them and summit will have them dropshipped from rancho directly to you.

[sanfoja]

Can't blame a guy for asking. Thanks.

Just give them a call, they did a package deal for me with Kryptonite rods, and cognito support kit. I also ordered their torsion key kit. Saved me about $100. I upgraded to the MOOG pitman and idler arms as well (ordered from Amazon).

Good luck!
Joe

[JJJTX]

Well, I have the following sitting in my garage right now:

o UCAK100001 (Cognito - front end level kit)
o BILSTEIN BE5-E381-T0 (longer front shocks)
o SBELKHD-1000 (Cognito - end-links for use with UCAK100001)
o PISK2008 (Cognito - pitman/idler support kit)
o DMAXSTORE KRYPTONITE HD Tie Rods (red)
o RS5407 (Rancho steering stabilzer)
o GM green keys (3" lift to the front)

:jump:

I am taking some time off next week while everyone else is at work/school, so I hope to have all of this installed by Friday. If I can get my old camera working (don't want grime on good camera) then I will take pictures along the way. Since I don't have a welder (yet), I didn't go for the Cognito Idler Pivot kit (IPAWG8) at this time, but will by this time next year.

By the way, those KRYPTONITE HD tie rods are gargantuan and I can't find a 1.75" crowfoot anywhere near here. Looks like I will be guestimating on the torque for the inners with a open-end wrench. Bleh.

:lame:

are you lifting the back? I'm only putting 35s back on mine but still want to lift it right. Right now my plan is green keys,cognito UCA kit with rancho front shocks and a rancho steering stabilizer. Not sure for back, I have stock springs. Was going to use some Maxx 1.5 or 2" spacers but was wanted to know if it would be better to just spend a lil extra on the extended springs, and do I need to replace shocks in back too?

thanks

[JJJTX]

Sorry for taking so long to get back on this post!! I Bought the RANCHO
RS5370 shocks up front. These are specifically made for a t-bar lifted H2 and I gotta tell you the truck rides like a Cadillac with these things.

I got them from Summit for like $45/ea. It will say special order only. Dont worry just order them and summit will have them dropshipped from rancho directly to you.


what made you go with the Rancho shocks over the Bilsteins and how was the experience with the ranchos?

Thanks!