Hummer Adventure Magazine

[Steve R]

Hey Gang,

As some of you may know....GM has a publication that comes out twice a year, it's called "Hummer Adventures" and is sent to all known Hummer owners for free. Please help by polling the following:

As far as your knowledge and thoughts of the magazine:

For your participation in this survey you will be entered to win $1,000,000 and a night with your favroite movie star! (see details below)

details: There is no contest, it's all hype, there will be no winnners. Now stop reading the humor-part of this thread and answer the poll please. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As far as the Hummer Adventures Magazine (NOT to be confused with The Hummer Club's "Hummer Tracks" magazine).

My opinion of the Hummer Adventures Magazine is:

[Steve R]

Hey Gang,

As some of you may know....GM has a publication that comes out twice a year, it's called "Hummer Adventures" and is sent to all known Hummer owners for free. Please help by polling the following:

As far as your knowledge and thoughts of the magazine:

For your participation in this survey you will be entered to win $1,000,000 and a night with your favroite movie star! (see details below)

details: There is no contest, it's all hype, there will be no winnners. Now stop reading the humor-part of this thread and answer the poll please. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

As far as the Hummer Adventures Magazine (NOT to be confused with The Hummer Club's "Hummer Tracks" magazine).

My opinion of the Hummer Adventures Magazine is:

[NCHummerman]

Heard of it but "Never Received it" ..... I guess this response does not fit into any catagory

Michael
---
Pewter Hummer H2
Northern California

www.zootsuitstore.com (http://www.zootsuitstore.com)
------------------------------------

[Buckeye Hummer]

Steve,

They need more PHOTOGRAPHS of people using there Hummers in the desert, woods, towing, camping, tailgating, at Moab and more. I relate to pictures more than text and I just don't think people know what their H2's can do. They need to see it live in photos or on-line to see what can be done and also that it is cool, ok, not red-neck like, to go to places other can't. We need photos of adventures where H2 groups got to interesting desert spots, streams, mountains and more. The Hummer magazines I have received have been boring at best. The magazine needs to plant seeds so peoples minds can wonder and become more creative with their vehicles. There are so many reasons to use an H2 and just as many reasons to buy one but the people need to know and thus far Hummer Adventures has done a mediocre job of getting the word out.

[Jerry]

I am a new H2 owner in Phoenix and am anxious to see what it can do and also go out with a group. I am 65 years old and not so willing to take great chances any more. I want to take it for some challanging trips but want to know it's limits first and the proper way to drive it. We had a Jeep when we were kids and did things we shouldn't have. I am alittle more cautious now.
03 H2, Yellow, LUX, Rear Tire, Chrome Wheels & Tubular Steps.

Love it. 4 weeks old and 4K already.

Jerry Parr

Jerry

[DRTYFN]

Welcome Jerry.
You're going love it more and more every day. I'm envious of your location. You've got a lot of great 4xing within hours of you.

[MAC]

That magazine is mailed to Hummer owners only, it is an image builder, exactly same as the Mercedes or Jaguar magazines. Hummer magazine lacks beautiful pictures, lacks contents and lacks frequency, paper is lesser quality too.

If your job is to promote Hummer and sell more Hummer(which is the only goal), what would you do? do you spend your money and effort on 5% of the customers, or do you take care the other 95%? This is not a question about off-road of not, but a very simple and elementary business question. Do you aim at 5% or 95%?

[MAC]

Let’s do some basic calculation, no need for calculator, you don’t even need a pencil.

1- Assuming 40,000 H2s sold.
2- 5% go off road is 2,000 H2s.
3- Allot 10% sales to the big 5 states, CA, TX, FL, IL, NY/NJ. 200 off road H2s each big state.
4- LA/San Diego is double of Northern Calif. Size, so LA/San Diego has 120 off road H2s.
5- There are only so many spots you can go off road down there, plus Steve is well connected so he should know about every Hummer group or event.
6- Has Steve seen 120 H2s (accumulated) off road in the last 12 months? 100? 80? 50? Steve had 4 in the last run.

Let’s go back to the original question: if you are a Hummer businessman, do you target 2,000 customers or do you target 38,000 customer?

[Detonate]

It doesn't matter if someone off roads their H2 or not. I promise that is the image they bought.

-Jim March
Arlington TX
2003 Red H2
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder

[MAC]

A successful magazine has to know its readers.
1- Phil’s 94%, well, Phil is a proven smart man, I don’t think he ever believe that 94%. (LA/SD should have 2,400 H2s going off the road. If you think Sierra Club is picking on us now, wait till them see 2,400 H2s out there in the parks.)
2- If Steve ever seen 48 H2s out there (accumulated), that is 2%, if 24 H2s, that is 1%. Let’s be very generous, say 2% actually go/gone off road.
3- Assuming Detonate's "promise" is 100% correct, everyone bought H2 for the off road image.
4- Hummer magazine then knows its target is that 39,000 (98%) owners who bought H2s but have no intention of ever go off the road.
5- It also knows that 2%(1000) off road H2 owners are irrelevant.
6- The easiest and safest route is to keep on feeding these 98% with off road images to reinforce the illusion.

[Buckeye Hummer]

Mac, I think this one has lost you. You are stuck on numbers of off-road vs. on-road drivers, which completely misses the point. Everyone bought the H2 because it was looked rugged, more people will buy it when they can see it do more rugged adventures. This doesn't mean they will ever take the truck off-road but know that they can makes all the difference. Look around your house and business for certain tools, technology and tell me if you actually use all of them to their absolute fullest or if you bought them because it's just nice to know the functionality is there should you ever need it. We aren't talking rock crawling pictures here, but rather, 22 mile off-road camping trips for the kids, deep snow in the mid-west, remote fishing spots etc. There are certain types of off-road driving that will and does appeal to the Hummer buyer. I have yet to see them market the vehicle with soccer balls in the back or a shopping cart hitting the side to show how tough the panels are.

[H2Norcal]

I will jump in just for fun:

On the direct topic feedback for Mac, I received one Adventures magazine about three weeks after my H2 delivery. I recall my first impression was the magazine looked professionally produced and resembled that of a manufacturers communication magazine such as BMW or GM’s semi-annual owner’s magazine. The problem I found with it and with the other attempts to produce a Hummer focused magazine is they all lack any useable owner content whatsoever because they are all trying to make a boat-load of money stuffing them with ads and marketing.

I think the Hummer Club’s upcoming Azimuth magazine holds the most promise for me because it is geared to the interests of the true user of the vehicle and they really have nothing to sell us. There will be ads but hopefully better content. We will see. But only members will get it.

And for the first time, I have to disagree with Phil on his view on H2 owner demographics (sorry Phil). I sincerely believe the vast majority of Hummer owners bought the H2 because of its fresh and wild image in a field of boring, mass produced SUVs, not for off-roading. I agree with MAC categorically here (did I really just say that? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif), I think there are only a few of us out here that plan to fulfill the off-road adventure picture Hummer has painted for us. The rest will enjoy the attention owning a Hummer brings them as they head to the movies, soccer games or just to work.

[Steve R]

MAC,

I have to agree with his devine Buckness on this call: That magazine is NOT about offroading....it's simply about the H2 and Hummers in general, it's about them keeping in touch with their customers.

Yes, they do tend to focus on offroading a bit, but that's because the vehicle is an outstanding offroad vehicle...and whether people use it for that or not...it's a pivotal quality of the vehicle AND most people bought it with that idea in mind.

As a friend of mine is fond of saying: in the back of their minds they want to know they could offroad it.

I have a club because I like goig out with friends. I post pics & videos of offroading because nobody wants to see pics & video of H2's sitting in parking lots and driving down streets.

I sense you feel deeply ostracized by your own sense of not being an "offroader". Some offroad a lot, some twice a year, some won't offroad at all and just bought it to get upto their snowy cabin in winter.

And YES, some even bought the H2 just for the image...they'll never do anything with it that a Honda Civic couldn't do....but ya know what: that's alright! They'd still enjoy reading a good magazine and seeing pics of Hummers.

Now...if you'll excuse me, I have to run to my brothers so he can super-compress the new video and post it to his website.

[MAC]

Mathematic and logic is the foundation of all sciences. In this case, mathematic and logic established the foundation, which is “who are the readers of the Hummer magazine?” In business, that is one of the first things you must have the answers to, what you do with the facts is subject to endless debate. The one who follow the right path will be a success, one goes down the wrong path is faced with certain failure, as 95% of the new businesses do.

Steve has an interest in starting a Hummer magazine. If I were his enemy, I shall encourage him and promise him that I will pay to buy his new magazine, and there are tens of thousands of eager H2 owners waiting for his magazine; but I am his friend, I am in fact indirectly showing him the numbers to save him from thousands of hours of agony and financial losses. In the usual Steve tradition, he makes fun of me, which is expected and totally acceptable to me.

As I pondered in my 6th point in the last post, maybe Hummer magazine should pester the 98% non-off-road H2s owners with off road photos to fullfill unmet dreams or whatever Steve feels others are lacking. As such I am in fact in agreement with some of you. But frankly, I don’t really care what the Hummer magazine does, I flip through it a few days after arrival and I toss it.

[Buckeye Hummer]

Mac, I think you fall in the category of "don't care to off-road", which most do but I also think you fall in another category "don't care to see it off-road". This is interesting to me because it makes me wonder why you would buy an H2. If you don't even care to see interesting pictures of the H2's performance in remote areas then why did you buy it? Wouldn't it be better to own an Escalade or even a Range Rover? At least a Range Rover is so refined inside it does pass nicely as a true luxury vehicle that doesn't appear overbearing on the street like the H2 does. I bought my H2 because I liked the thought of what it could do, not necessarily that I would do those things but it makes for interesting conversation and frankly I like the feeling that I could go most anywhere if I wanted to. So, when I wanted to; I did. I went out with Steve in the desert and had a great time. Now I love my H2 even more and have begun planning camping trips with the kids as well as some remote fishing trips with friends of mine from the East coast. You won't see me rock crawling but I am sure you will see more pics of me having fun using my vehicle to at least 50% of its potential. I figure Steve uses his almost to the max but I doubt he wants to totally destroy it just yet. Now, with the Hummer mag Steve is working on it has actually piqued my interest. It can be very successfull so I completely disagree with you. I have had a number of my friends consider trading in their not so SUV's for Hummers after hearing of the fun I've had on my off-road adventures. Of course this doesn't mean they will go off-road but they certainly can if an when they want to.

[MAC]

Buckeye, this is my computer background, think that sort of cancelled your analysis "don't care to see it off-road". http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Jason should post the credit, who took the photos of the month, who, where, when, how and why. A brief description.

[MAC]

I also like to see photos of wrecked Hummers too, there should be a permanent section for wreck photos. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I save over 100 Hummer photos, from parts to worthy photos to wrecks. Other than that, most offroad photos are pretty much the same, take one look and move on.

I read most modern men are information overloaded, we all have to manage our time efficiently with data. I start the morning with newspaper(must read), then 40 magazines a month, there are must reads such as Time, Newsweek, Autoweek, Businessweek, Forbes; and there are flip through and toss magazines, then there are books, such as the economic book "Commanding Heights" is a current must read. Plus 50 emails a day. Hummer magazine is a flip and toss, 99% of Hummer off-road photos are all similar.

[Buckeye Hummer]

Hmmm, inconsistency, strange. My background is "Space". I like to think I will go there someday but most likely will not unless the 2020 H2's come with the Mars package.

How is it this pic appeals to you but the mag Steve is putting together you consider to be a potential flop? I am not sure what to do with that. Please elaborate.

[Detonate]

Mac, you are the minority here. Just face it.

I'd be willing to bet most of us don't have 40 magazine subscriptions.

For example I have 4:
Hummerteam.com's Outdoor Adventures
Home Theater Magazine
Scuba Diving Magazine
Official Xbox Magazine


Hmmmm, none of your MUST READS made my list.

I also don't read the newspaper.

-Jim March
Arlington TX
2003 Red H2
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder

[MAC]

What is his potential MAXIMUM market? my friend Steve is the No.1 Hummer Man in LA/SD, great leadership and organizer, screaming at the top of his lung everyday on this forum asking or begging people in LA/SD to join him/them, that is his standard greeting to every new LA member. I think it is great, I admire that and we are lucky to have him.

But he has to know that there are very few people like him. 4 in the last run, even at the height, there were not many H2s. If he makes a new Hummer magazine he has to know and accept that fact. If you are his true friend, you have a responsibility to make him realize that fact. Sit down and do the math.

Let's not even talk about how to reach 99% H2 owners who don't even want to waste time to visit this forum, distribution, advertising, etc... Phil's 94% H2 off road rate is a clear indication that people on this forum cannot be used as a guage.

[MAC]

I use Steve as a standard, because he is not a lone ranger. He knows the dealers and Hummer Club, he knows and he attended every Hummer event. He is smart and keep his count or mail list of ALL the H2s he has seen off road. His organizing is at maximum effort, he grab any H2 who is willing to join him. There must be at least 2000 to 4000 H2s sold in LA/SD, but how many H2s off the road? 20? 40? this is very simple and elementary math and logic. If my calcuation formula is wrong, tell me.

Whether I go off road or not, I save Hummer magazine or not is totally irrelevant. We are talking about ALL the H2 owners out there.

[Buckeye Hummer]

MAC,

De-Nile ain't just a river in Egypt now is it? You didn't answer my question, not so smoothly I might add, but did throw up plenty of smoke screens.

So, back to the new magazine. Since I don't enjoy looking at rock crawlers in Off-Road mag. but do enjoy looking at and using my H2 and others H2's doing fun stuff I think we have a niche here. You know the type, they make a decent amount of money each year, like to stand out, are leaders and so on. So let's see what these leaders do in their free time. If I had my H2 now while on vacation in Cape Cod I would be posting pics of my drive on Nauset beach with kids, towels, coolers, life jacket (for my 2 year old), as well as fishing poles on top (new roof rack) with hanger rigs (working quite well on the striped bass I might add). We would undoubtedly be pulling my friends bass boat with the H2 and dropping it in Stage Harbor (that's a pic I would like to see in Steve's new mag). You see Mac, it's not just an opportunity to see what an H2 can do but also the opportunity to see what H2 owners do in their free time. The H2 has so many fun and interesting applications. I would love to see an H2 in a parking lot with 2' of snow under it and no other cars in the lot because they simply couldn't get there or maybe an H2 moving over a blocked road in the Hollywood Hills due to heavy rains and a mudslide, or heaven forbid another earthquake hits or other disaster where H2 rescue vehicles are used because of their tremendous power and off-road ability. Steve, this new mag sounds great! Where can I pick one up? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[Detonate]

Let's not forget that some people will buy anything that says HUMMER on it, no matter what it is.

Just look at all the people that bought the H2. Or remember HummerMan's photo of all his H2 loot?

Travis's Hummer Magazine is doing very.

-Jim March
Arlington TX
2003 Red H2
Beauty is in the eye of the Beer Holder

[MAC]

Buckeye, I don't remember anything you said in your previous email which hasn't been answered, but I'll take a look later on. For now, since you asked for H2 in snow, I'll dutifully post 2 photos of my black Hummer(both in winter), for your enjoyment. I have to go to my pool now, my wife has 5 girlfriends, sisters and their kids coming over for swimming and party till 11PM, our 4th party at home in 7 days, we had over 40 on Saturday night. Guess who clean the pool and set up the toys and do the BBQ? I and me!

Detonate, tell us more about Travis's Hummer magazine. I remembered it was discussed here many months ago, but we or I never heard any news about it, you seem to indicate it is doing very well, guess they don't need to promote it on the forum here. Is it available on the newsstand or subscription? $? how come nobody else mentioned it yet? anybody else seen it, what do you think?

[H2Norcal]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by PhilD:

Disagreement is good, I'd hate to right all the time http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif [END QUOTE]

Once again Phil, well stated. As it sums up this particular thread, I think we are demonstrating here that it could be difficult to simply come up with a magazine that satisfies the entire demographics of the H2 buyer because the reasons for purchasing is very spread out. It may be awhile for someone to spend the bucks to find what everyone is looking for.


I do feel better now that we really didn't disagree after all.. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[HummerTeam]

Mac,

Our Hummer Team / Adventure Team magazine is doing well, however, it is only a regional publication. Mostly Texas, and the Dallas/Fort Worth area.

We have a circulation of 20,000 in this area, and we promote all kinds of outdoor adventure, but mainly Hummer stuff.

We do have plans of expanding, but magazine publishing is tough work, and we want to get about a year under our belt before we take it to a larger national market.

You actually can subscribe to the magazine on our website.

HummerTeam.com
Dallas, Texas

[MAC]

HummerTeam, thanks for the update. I know you guys are Hummer professionals with a fleet of Hummers and have been at this for a long time.

Buckeye,
Quote: "De-Nile ain't just a river in Egypt now is it? You didn't answer my question".
I read though your previous emails, but I didn't find any unanswered questions, I think your questions are actually statements. The subject is getting a little old, but if you can specify the actual questions(not statements), I'll be happy to take a look at them later on today and see if I can answer them. Let's stay away from what a Hummer magazine should be like, or if Steve should start another Hummer magazine, our taste is as different as our music and Steve doesn't listen to me anyway. Fire at will. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[HummerTeam]

I wouldn't call us "Hummer Professionals", but thanks!, we are mainly a local club that happens to have a local magazine. I have been into offroad with my other passion (Jeep) for years. Hummers are pretty new to me as well. We are still trying to make sense of it all.

Our last issue had articles on cigars, wine making, as well as some offroad and technical information, pictures, etc.

It's tough to figure out the "perfect" mix...

HummerTeam.com
Dallas, Texas

[Steve R]

Guys, guys, guys.....

No need to get huffy here. Seems the thread turned a little aggressive earlier. If you will...allow me to cast some illumination onto the subject at hand:

Ealier on MAC likened the starting of a magazine to that of opening up a restaurant: something that has a high probability of failure and financial loss. It is actually out of sincere concern that MAC advises me otherwise. I don't feel it's a vote of ill confidence, but rather that of a friend trying to save me some heartache & agony. MAC had said this long ago and as such to new members of the forum he may have seemed a bit nasty. MAC is an outstanding guy and despite my incessant teasing/joking/humiliation/jaunting/tormenting/slanderous/defying comments directed at MAC...they are all intended as pure fun. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Oh sure...most of you have emailed me on the side and told me what a weiny he is, and that his post are long and drawn-out and that he questionably contributes to the forum in actual knowledge, and that his post are self-serving and tend to promote his success and wealth, AND.....it goes on and on. But MAC is still our brother and we sorta like him. Okay, maybe tolerate, but still.(sorry MAC, it's just too easy) http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Before I forget. MAC: you ignorant slut....I certainly do NOT yell at the top of my lungs about my club on a regular basis. You just have to remember that we regularly have new members joining us and they are unaware of our club. I simply announce events so that people will know of them. Your other accusation is that I'll grab any H2 that is willing to join me. WRONG: your exclusion from my club is proof of that inaccuracy http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Now seriously. I am simply PART of a collective force that is very interested in putting together a magazine. And even MAC will agree that a wise approach is to research and test your market before getting stupid with large money. I just needed a little feedback about HA (Hummer Adventures).

There is an absolute and definite method to my madness. Let not the absence of information lead you to assume things. Big wheels often turn slow. Rome wasn't built in a day. You can't make turkey jerky without burning down a barn. Something else funny involving MAC.

The only thing you need to know is that there will be a big centerfold and frontal nudity involved. * see details below

*detail: no frontal nudity involved

Oh yeah. I'm really NOT the big-time offroader that everyone thinks I am. Of the near 9,000 miles I've put on my H2, only about 3.2% are "offroad". At one event I picked-up a few brush-rake scratches that I've been assured will buff out. My tires are a bit chapped here and there, but beyond that my rig & MAC's are pretty much identical in condition.

I offroad about once every 3-4 weeks, when I do...I take pics & video and you hear about it. It's just a hobby and an interest.'

MAC, darn you for making me post such a long post!

[MAC]

"Seems the thread turned a little aggressive earlier." I failed to see anything even close to "Aggressive" in this topic. Are we Hummer owners or AA group session? You got to have a heart as solid as a rock to be a Hummer owner, you don't swing with the crowd nor try to please the others nor try to fit in and you don't change your mind just to belong, you don't go soft and apologize for no obvious reason.
Now, tell me which part(s) above is wrong? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Steve R]

huh? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[MAC]

My friend, one day you will understand. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Steve R]

No my friend....it is YOU who may one day understand....

but alas...you must ascend to the mountain-top: and there's no way you're going to drive up it in your H2, especially with your sidebars. And those loafers couldn't find thier way off the carpeting!

[MAC]

I only wear cowboy boots.

[Buckeye Hummer]

MAC,

Here is what I said:

"How is it this pic appeals to you but the mag Steve is putting together you consider to be a potential flop? I am not sure what to do with that. Please elaborate."

You didn't answer but did write many words of which very few made sense, less were relevant to the topic. Remember, some times less is more. The more you talk/write the more weaknesses are exposed. Frankly, I buy very little of what you say. Much of it appears to be a facade, farce, skit put on to deceive others into believing what isn't true or maybe is a partial truth.

Let's get back to the topic. Maybe we can all give input as to what Steve could/should add to the magazine to help its success. How about another poll Steve asking what people would like to see most in the mag? How much would they pay etc.

[MAC]

My friend Buckeye is running out of words, the natural course is to get personal and insult, I was waiting for the expected nasty turn, but I admit it came a day later than anticipated, it took longer than I thought for you to turn mean and personal. There are many, such as Spidey etc. is able to read between my lines.

I changed my mind, I think Steve should start a new Hummer magazine. I think it will be a running success right out of the gate, I can just see people lining up to buy his magazine which will be in Vons and Safeway in no time. Steve needs to practice laughing, because he will need to laugh all the way to the bank very often. How about $99 for one year of subscription?

For true friends like Buckeye, it is only fair for Steve to allow them to invest real money into the magazine, there is no joy like putting money where your mouth is. How about invest $10,000? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[This message was edited by MAC on 08-06-03 at 10:17 AM.]

[Buckeye Hummer]

MAC, I am fishing with "friends" in Cape Cod. I have known them for 7 years, which definitely qualifies them as such. I met Steve once. He's a nice guy but I wouldn't consider him a friend yet.

I'm sorry you FEEL insulted but you apparently also feel threatened and weak, ergo the recruitment of another board member to come to your rescue. An appeal to authority that has no foundation won't help.

As for the new Hummer Mag, I always start by investing time and ideas before money. When I started my business in 1998 I brought in equity investors but retained 35% ownership. I maintained complete management of the company to get it going in the right direction but never invested any money. When we did become profitable, I made offers to buy out all of the preferred interest and completed the deals in April of this year. So, of course I wouldn't invest $10,000 in a new magazine but I would enjoy being involved, which is certainly worth more than 10k. Besides, 10k doesn't exactly get a magazine off the ground, people do?

[MAC]

Is it rainning out there? you took precious time from vacation to write hate posts to MAC, it proved that you are thinking about MAC a lot, it takes a lot more energy to write a hateful post than a funny one. I like your resourceful way of negative words of hatred, experienced user indeed. It is very much appreciated. I never got around to check the forum while on vacations, I got to find some time on my next vacation, I get distracted by friends and families, beaches and shopping. This simply proved that you are a far more dedicated forum member than all of us.

[Buckeye Hummer]

Mac, do you remember the movie Stripes?

Lighten up Francis http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Good point with vacations. I guess at this point you wish I wasn't around. It's hard to hear the truth.

I did have a tremendous amount of time on my hands today. My 2 year old son came down with the flu. He threw up all over me last night and through the morning. The rest of my family (2 daughters and wife) plus friends left for Martha's Vineyard for the day. I stayed in to tend to the little one so had plenty of time to surf the web and watch Fox News. Tomorrow you can rest at ease. I won't expose you any further because I will be fishing all day. Saturday I fly back so you will have that day off as well. Friday I will check back to see if there is anything more interesting than clothes hooks to talk about, maybe by that time you will have answered my question.

[Steve R]

Guys....

Please. You are both my friends and I think this misunderstanding has perpetuated itself into a challenge of wits that will not resolve.

This is very simple. I've known MAC for almost a year now...and it takes a considerable amount of understanding him to realize what he really means in his writing. He is perhaps one of the most misunderstood writers on the forum. He doesn't realize it...but I assure you it is the case. He has drawn considerable negative attention before his oppenent suddenly realizes that he never meant any harm. I'm serious...it's like a learning curve.....I've seen no less then 7-9 forum members experience this acquired understanding.

Jason (Buckeye)...MAC doesn't always have a point nor a rational to back-up his position. MAC disagrees, disents and argues because he feels passionately that we must challenge ourselves to face the alternative, to quesiton our reasoning and to stiffen our resolve. He prompts us to defend our position and prove our conclusions. I realize this is where I typically play my punch-line and make a joke...but I'm serious.

He doesn't ever really concede unless it's appallinglly obvious...but I assure you his dissentive nature is not intended to belittle or undermine anyone....it's merely his contributive manner in which he expresses himself.

As a favor to me, I would appreciate if you both stand-down from this arguement...there is nothing to be gained and it is entirely based on misunderstanding.

Furthermore, we are NOT looking for any investors in this magazine project. There is much I can't disclose that if you knew would dramatically change your perspective.

This thread has served its purpose and reached its conclusion. Thank you all for the poll and info!

[MAC]

Buckeye, this topic is really getting pretty boring and old to me and everyone else.

You read all the posts today and in the last few days, did you see anyone else with a nasty post besides you? If nothing else, by now you must realized that none of them is having any effect on me. Its never a good idea to be negative and mean online, the nasty words are there forever for all to see. Normal folks tend to feel pretty bad after they say something nasty to even total strangers on the street or in road rage, you seem to enjoy being negative.

How about you go back to take care your family and have a vacation. Be positive and nice to everyone around you, you will find your world will brighten up and your kid will get well. You are the one who can control the positive or negative energy in your own life. If not for yourself, do it for your son.

[MAC]

Steve, that is exactly how I feel about you, a good self-description.

Still doing a lot private posts these days? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif might want to use emails, 15 year old teenagers can get you to see them for $20. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif

[Steve R]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

..which brings me to my next point: don't smoke crack! Thank you for illustrating that point MAC.

I've met Jason (Buckeye) and I can assure you he's thoruoughly well mannered and quite delightful a fellow. He may have encountered a few traction issues on a particular hill climb, but nothing a little video-editing couldn't fix. He's a complete business tycoon while still retaining a firm coolness amoungst friends....couldn't off-road with a better guy!

He also managed to respect my request from my previous post on this thread.

Enjoy your fishing Jason...hope your laying 'em out....bring home some fillet's and we'll do 'em up in my smoker and laugh about it over the BBQ and some cold beers! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif