Front Lockers

[Allen]

I noticed that R2 listed front lockers amongst other items that he has used to make his H2 his own. Where did/do you get front lockers for the H2 and how much $$$, who can put them on? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Allen]

I noticed that R2 listed front lockers amongst other items that he has used to make his H2 his own. Where did/do you get front lockers for the H2 and how much $$$, who can put them on? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Steve R]

Isn't that what the TC2 button is for? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Where have you been man?????

[Allen]

Actually I do not believe it is. TC2 cuts power to the spinning wheel. Front lockers - lock both wheels so they have equal power going to both wheels. Furthermore I do not believe TC2 is the same as true front lockers becuase R2 had front lockers put on his Hummer. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[Dan]

I think Steve was trying to be funny. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

- Dan http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

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SUT on order 12/02. 11 months down, 7 to go!
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[Frank Hewitt]

The H2 has the ability to lock out the rear diffs, but not the front. Right?

gasman

[Allen]

Dan- Oh http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

Kidding, I know he was...trying http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Allen]

Frank - That is correct, but R2 had front lockers put on his

[Paul L]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Just air down

http://www.carpentryasanart.com

[Allen]

Seriously, does anyone know where to get front lockers for an H2?

[alecs wife]

Yes! Tracktion control cannot lock the front end.. The lockers provide me with a true positive lock.

I installed the Eaton E-Locker 9.2. It uses a push-in button like the rear. Locker $650 install $750

Tracktion control is ok but, you cannot depend on it. I do enough off-roading to justify a front locker ( and I mean hardcore )

I have been offroad every weekend for 2 months.

I love this thing!!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

R2

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[Paul L]

I was in VT with a H1, we were climbing a stepped part of a steep trail (1' to 2' steps) I did it without airing down & had to beat on my H2 to do it. He aired down & drove up it like he was on pavement, so I aired down & did it again & did it as easy as him. It just seem to me that buying lockers for the front is a waste of time & money

http://www.carpentryasanart.com

[Allen]

Thank you R2 and Paul L for the valuable information!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[alecs wife]

A locker is designed to assist when you only have 3 or two tires on the ground. Like v ditches, were you have to approach at an angle. Maybe going up a rock hill were you only have tracktion on the front tires and one rear.

I will say steps on a high tracktion surface can be done with no lockers given no uneven surfaces. You understand!!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

Get lockers if you realy want to conqure tough areas without worries about what wheel will be receiving torque.

Allow your driveing to screw you up not the Truck.

R2

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[alecs wife]

PS....

It is standard practice to air down anytime you go wheeling!!!!

Just a thought.

R2

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[Paul L]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
just busting your chops R2

http://www.carpentryasanart.com

[alecs wife]

Yea!!! I hear ya.... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Front locker online (http://www.reiderracing.com/elocker.htm)

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[Steve R]

Hey Dan,

You're right. If this is the Allen I think it is....he showed up at our Rowher Trail event and tried blasting up a really steep hill. He failed on his first attempt and I consulted with him on his selection of t-case modes and other stuff. He indicated to me that he had the front-locker "ON"...so I told him he had no front locker and only a rear locker. He then looked confused and gestured to his TC2 button and.....you can imagine the rest. He did make it up that hill on his next try!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I've considered a front-locker. There are 2 things I have no seen discussed here....so let's crack the books and chew the fat:

First, the traction control can in fact simulate a locker-like effect. If driven carefully and you understand the dynamics of your traction control system...then you can sorta work with your TC and almost stop/reduce the wheels from spinning. I consider the TC system 1/2-a-locker.....it's about half-way as effective as a true locker.

Bear in mind we still have a locker in the rear and the rear does most the work. Still...I've found situations where a front-locker would realy be nice. Particularly in this instance:

Often you want to crawl or creep over stuff. The tires may be up against a rock or small boulder: if you apply more and more power the tire will come up and over the rock...but you tend to "pop" or jump up when you finally get enough power to get up that obstacle. I've seen many people keep pushing on the gas and then literally thrust up and over the rock...only to come crashing down on their frame or rock rail cause they sorta overshot the rock. I'm sure you offroaders know exactly what I mean!!!

The H2 can be like a giant freakin' marshmellow. The rock won't budge so people just keep giving it more and more power...the tire starts to climb...and just as quickly you get on top of the rock and lurch forward! NO GOOD!!!

Sometimes you want to get right on top of that rock/boulder and re-direct your heading. Control is critical!!!!

The primiere technique I use is to apply braking and modulate the gas with the brake to create a very slow and solid progression forward. I slowly and deliberately creep up and on top of that rock: control!!!!

Here's the catch with our TC's: if you touch your brake...all TC functions are OFFLINE!!!! Now you've got nothing but an open differential in the front: one wheel slips/spins and it's all over for the front pulling!!!!

TC and braking can't work at the same time. A locker would resolve this issue and allow someone to seriously crawl, creep and maintain exquisite control...all the while having total turning of all 4 tires.

Front locker...a waste of money??? HELL NO!!!!! I've been waiting for one to come out and it would seem my ship has come in!!!!! I'm in line! Tell me more R2

What else you got going on with your rig???? Inquiring minds want to know!

[RockYoda]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Paul L:
It just seem to me that buying lockers for the front is a waste of time & money<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Than you don't wheel hard enough!

Steve, you hit the nail right on the head!

Lets get one thing straight. True lockers give the driver control over wheel spin. Traction control gives the computer control over wheel spin. Who do you want to be in charge?

[DURAMAX TIM]

We have lockers in a super stock Chevy pulling truck and usually put the 15.5" wide wranglers on for playing in the snow.
A few times get it stuck on top of big drifts.
If we can shovel enough to get any tire on the ground it comes right out, easy on the gas.
W/ TC the 3 tires are spinning and when it engages the 4th tire it is usually too fast and will break the traction it had, so STILL stuck.

Both lockers are the only way to fly.

I want to be in charge!

Yell'r 04 Lux w/ air, sunroof,F&R brush bars
Traded 03 White Lux
03 GMC D/A CC SLT LB soon to be 04

[alecs wife]

Good point, lockers give the driver control not the computer!!!!!

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[Skulz]

mmm front locker
I know what I want from Santa!

[Steve R]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by RockYoda:
True lockers give the driver control over wheel spin. Traction control gives the computer control over wheel spin. Who do you want to be in charge?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I want to be in charge!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif When we let the computer be in charge...horrible things can happen!!!!!! Didn't we all see the Terminator series? The Machines took over!!!!!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

That's probably the next big innovation GM has planned: All our rigs traction control systems will be linked to a master computer which controls, monitors and regulates our vehicles. They'll call thing "Traction-Net". Sure...this sounds all well & fine, but what happens when our traction control systems and Traction-Net become "conscious"??? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

We'll panic and try to pull the plug, but it'll be too late!! Hummers will be flying off the road. The machines will turn on us and a new era will come upon the planet: chaos & mayhem will reign upon us and we'll become the hunted!!!

Only one thing stands between us and our traction way of life: led by "The Chosen Taco"....we will come to embrace front-lockers. We'll reject traction control systems and fight for traction to the bitter end. This will mark humanities finest hour: cry traction and let loose the lockers of war!!!!!

Don't get me started.....oppps, too late!

ALTERNATIVE REPLY: I totally agree with you Frank! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Buckeye Hummer]

Steve,

I guess home insulation sales are slow today http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I can't make the t-run without a divorce so I'll have to pass. I would love to go because I haven't been on the trail with you in a while and now my good friend Rick has a job so we're stuck with weekends. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[alecs wife]

Ok Steve, Here it is>>>>>>>

>>Flame Throwers
>>Automatic Hedge clippers
Non-supported instalation by the dealer (mounts behind the bumper)
>>Rock crushers
it's the button right of the TC2
>>Pontoon kit
For fording over 80's
>>Anti-roll bars
allows me to travers at 55 degrees
>>Automatic Turkey cooker
for special times in the trail

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[RonB]

will a front locker have any warranty issues with any/all parts involved? Front diff?

[argonaut]

I would like some more lockers. maybe not on the front wheels like you guys though. How about a locker on the glovebox? Or a locker on the center cosole? (did that sound MAC like to anybody else?). Seriously though, for me, the rear and TC seem to be enough. I'm sure if I was doing more rock crawling a front would be good, but as I don't, I'm satisfied with what I've got.

[alecs wife]

Ron.
The locker comes with a one year warrenty.

GM will not warrenty the diff after the Mod. The installation is guarrenteed for workmanship.

Bottom Line I don't know!!

R2

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[crash]

I would put the $$$ into a front SAS before spending good coin on a front locker of any sorts.... You would have a stronger front(depending on what axle you choose) and a more capable rig...

certified H2 tech. troll http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[alecs wife]

What is SAS?

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[crash]

Straight Axle Swap.. We will get you guys caught up in the lingo http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

certified H2 tech. troll http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[alecs wife]

Got cha!!!
It seems to me a SAS would cost a bit more than a locker, considering all the work needed on an H2. I problably would have to add a lift and whole new drive train????? I don't know. It justs sounds like a lot.

Besides, the IFS is what gives the H2 a smooth and stable ride on the road.

Thanks for the advice,

R2

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[crash]

Yes R2, its not "cheap" but its $$$ being spent in a maner that won't be "re-done" later so to speak. Actually, if done right, a straight axle will out ride an ifs any day. My rig is a perfect example, leafs all the way around, and it rides better than any ifs rig could ever ride(gets called a limo,lol)

certified H2 tech. troll http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[alecs wife]

crash, I would like to know what you drive???? and the specs. What does the Troll in the sig. mean??

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[crash]

82 toy, front end is a custom high pinion 44, high steer and full hydro steering
4.3 gm v6 mated to a sm465(4 speed slush box) mated todual toy t-cases. rear is toyota still (have a dana 60 siting for when I blow it up again) Arb's front/rear. Modified waggy springs.

Its about to get re-done, I have sitting in a pile, 4 coil overs, chromo material for link bars, back half will be fully tubed, engine cage, re-desinged internal cage.....

Lots of stuff.. Oh ya, I run 38.5 tsl/sx's.

My rig is a perfect example of evolution, bought it back in 91, and has transformed over the years (comes down to that whole deal of what would I have done differently). But, I started fabbing stuff way before the net was anything at all....

certified H2 tech. troll http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[alecs wife]

I see Trollyoda!!!!!

You certainly are hardcore. Why didn't you go with coil-overs the first time??? More importantly why didn't you buy American!!!???? Are you realy a certified H2 Mech?

I am glad My H2 is made in Indiana,. Else I would be looking at a Jeep..No!!! thats German owned... realy a Bronco.

Have fun wheeling,

R2

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[RockYoda]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by R2:
I see Trollyoda!!!!!

You certainly are hardcore. Why didn't you go with coil-overs the first time??? More importantly why didn't you buy American!!!???? Are you realy a certified H2 Mech?

I am glad My H2 is made in Indiana,. Else I would be looking at a Jeep..No!!! thats German owned... realy a Bronco.

Have fun wheeling,

R2

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


80's Toyotas are the best damn 1/2 ton trucks on the road. It only takes 1/2 the money to build than a comparitable heep and they don't break down! Compaired to an early Bronco it only cost a fraction. If American companies made trucks like Toyotas i would buy American. Toyotas are small and nible. They have the perfect wb length and they are stronger than any American built 1/2 truck. Does it really matter if people buy American or not? In the long run... No. This is a global economy now. We as a planet will be relying more and more each other. Buy American will mean nothing in the future.

[alecs wife]

Rock,,
No need to justify your preferences. I realize that you may have bought into the global economy mindset; afterall it does take a village??? Allow me to embellish. We buy American made and Americans get a pay check to support their families. We live in America.

That's it,

Enjoy your yoda and remember there is someone out there that cannot support their family because you bought that perfect vehicle.

R2

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[crash]

Its all about the progression, when I started in this sport, coil overs weren't even being used in the desert race series,lol... Of course, I will have over 4k in parts alone for the new suspension, so, thats not exactly cheap, and I collect parts by building rigs on the side...

As for to or not to buy american, I agree, we need to support americans. But also look at it from this standpoint, the only true person that spent the $$$ on the non us made stuff, is the first. Down the line, as a non american rig gets bought/sold, the $$$ now enters the US economy. But then again, my rig is now 2/3 american made products, stronger than the asain stuff by far.....

Hardcore,lol, I consider that a state of mind more than anything, and can be interperted(sp) in many ways...

certified H2 tech. troll http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[crash]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by R2:

Are you realy a certified H2 Mech?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yup, I have a few certs for specific areas on the rig. I also specialize in engine performance and electrical at a chev/hummer dealership (been there going on 15 years)

certified H2 tech. troll http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[alecs wife]

How did we get off topic?????? I think we started discussing the benefits of lockers for the front of the H2. I think lockers will improve the capabilities of any rig, solid or independent.

Have fun with your rig. I see based on your grounds why you would want a beefed up rig.

R2

Front Locker, Stealth winch, 37" Super Swampers SSR,low center of gravity = Ultimate H2

[Steve R]

It's commonly referred to as SFA, Solid Front Axle....never heard of SAS, but it's all good.

I've spoken with a few techies about such a thing (IFS to SFA) and they firmly believe that the IFS on the H2 is amazingly better performing then you'd imagine and there'd only be a slight margin of improvment in performance. Dollar-per-value, I'd put my money on the front-locker first and foremost.

A lot of people who are really into solid axles overlook the benefits of the independent set-up. When your axle starts lifting, it may push the other wheel downward, but it also starts turning the wheels/tire on it's edge. Also, I don't think we sacrifice that much clearance with the IFS.

Beyond that (and taking in a dose of huge reality)...the H2 just isn't ever going to be a rock-crawler: it's too wide, too long a wheelbased and just inherently doesn't have enough clearance. All that work putting an SFA on an H2 is like putting small wings on a hippo: it's never gonna fly anyways!!!

Lastly: some of these non-Hummer guys walk on egg-shells and try to oblige us at every turn...it's really not fair to jump on them and dis their stuff just cause they're not Hummer owners. IF they get nasty/mean...then fine, light 'em up....but if they are cordial and play friendly, let's learn and keep an open door policy.

[crash]

SFA is a term used when its got a straight axle from the factory http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif SAS is when you cut the IFS off and put a straight axle in... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif Thats the terms we have been using for about 6 years.

When you have a front tire start to compress, usually there are only 2 factors that go into what will cause the other side to droop. 1 being the rear spring rates, forcing the front tire to droop, and the front tire compressing and hitting a bump stop, forcing the other tire to droop (force articulation so to speak....

Now, the comment of the tire riding on the edge, I don't see that, I do however see an IFS doing this more. Here is an example, take a line and draw it at 30 degrees from left to right. make the body of the rig level and both front tires on the line(showing the front at the 30 degree angle). On a straight axle, both tires are level to the surface, where the ifs is not due to the nature of how its desinged...

I agree, the H2 is just too big(not saying that you can't, just the reality of it) for playing in the big rocks.

But I agree, go with a locker in the front, but make it selectable (been running arb's since 94)

certified H2 tech. troll http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Steve R]

oh yeah....e-locker on the front for sure, only to be used in extreme conditions. My buddy has both front & rear lockers and he says there's virtually no steering when both locked!

As for the slanted-tire thing....put the front right tire on an 18" rock...the right tire will rise up into the wheel-well while the front-left will fall out to the ground. On IFS the left tire is sitting square on the ground, while the axle'd tire is at an angle or moving towards its edge. Course, if aired down this is no big deal. It's just something someone pointed out to me once.

Crash...the spy shots of the new H3 depict rear leaf-springs instead of a coil set-up....what do you suppose is the thinking here??? Do leafs offer a smooother ride, better articulation, less costly to make???? what do you figure?????

Also...drop me an email, gotta chat with you aboput something. Homeinsulation@aol.com

[Ted]

Here are two pics that really show the differace between IFS, and SAF. This is the some rig, but the owner did a SAS.

http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/solidaxle/4run88.jpg

http://www.off-road.com/toyota/tech/solidaxle/4run96.jpg

[Detonate]

Visually, I see the difference. Functionally I do not.

With a Front Locker, that rig could go over the same obstacle just as smooth.

------------------------------
2003 Red H2 equipped with Tough Country Heavy Duty Armor Series Front End with Winch, Rear Bumper, Brush Guard, and Roof Rack.

[crash]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Alec W:
crash, what do you think a SAS would cost on an H2?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thats a hard call, it boild down to what front diff you want to run, and in that, you could easily spend 6k on a custom jobbie. And in my opinion, a dana 60 is probably just right for the weigth of that rig, and even with a basic diff, you will be into that close to 2500 just for a basic setup.. The steering box probably would be ok, and then you would have to either run leafs up front, or coils/coilovers with a 4 link (or 3 link w/panhard bar)...
But realisticly you could be into about 5-7k...

certified H2 tech. troll http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif