Exxon/Mobil $9.9 billion profit for the quarter!!!

[slgcmg]

It is nice to know that someone is making money off of the out of control gas prices. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I am seeing gas prices at $2.35 a gallon. To me it looks like a sweet deal until you see what we were paying this time last year. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[slgcmg]

It is nice to know that someone is making money off of the out of control gas prices. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

I am seeing gas prices at $2.35 a gallon. To me it looks like a sweet deal until you see what we were paying this time last year. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[Spike]

Gas in my area as of this morning is down to $2.17 per gallon.

[Hummertech]

Before we go out of control bashing the oil companies we should keep 3 things in mind.
1. Our gas is much, much cheaper than anywhere in Europe.
2. A large part of the price of gas is taxes by the Government, and that tax money is pure profit for the government.
3. When you compare the amount of money spent by the oil companies compared to their profits, they actually make a little bit less than other large companies of that size in other industries.

[ckhagman]

The rack to retail margins on gasoline has been anywhere between $.06 to $.30 a gallon. It only got to $.30 cents quickly and went right back down.

Retail profit is not that high but it should be at least $.15 if not higher.

The EPA and CARB are requiring gas stations to perform upgrades constantly which costs money. A viscious cycle yes but they need to make money to spend money.

[HummerNewbie]

I have to agree 100% with Hummertech on this one. This morning gas around here was $2.69 and that is about as low as it has been in some time. The oil companies have a lot of expenses to cover just to run the operation let alone recouping the investments to get the oil. I know from first hand experience how expensive it is to drill and you never really know if there is going to be anything there. It is a high risk business and they may make a profit this year but could lose their asses next year.

[ckhagman]

Lets not forget to add that the Exxon/Mobil plant to Houston was shut down for a week or 2. I was talking with some oil companies 2 weeks ago they might not get 100% allocations but rather 60%. Can you imagine going to get your oil changed and the guy tells you sorry, where out of your oil.

Our local gas company has even sent out letters to large (Commercial) accounts tell them they can not guarentee that their gas wont be shut off due to insufficent supply. So if you think oil is bad gas is much worse.

[slgcmg]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spike:
Gas in my area as of this morning is down to $2.17 per gallon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Looks like I need to go to whereabouts unknown http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Spike]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Looks like I need to go to whereabouts unknown
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>S. Jersey

[slgcmg]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
Before we go out of control bashing the oil companies we should keep 3 things in mind.
1. Our gas is much, much cheaper than anywhere in Europe.
2. A large part of the price of gas is taxes by the Government, and that tax money is pure profit for the government.
3. When you compare the amount of money spent by the oil companies compared to their profits, they actually make a little bit less than other large companies of that size in other industries. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

1: Everything is higher in Europe...who cares...

2: Actually only a fairly moderate portion of the price of gas is taxes. An even smaller portion goes to the franchise owners...the rest/bulk goes in Exxon's pocket.

3: No matter HOW you slice it, 9.9 billion in PROFIT is disgusting considering what the country has been enduring over the past year. These companies have profiteered on the back of national disaters to an unprecedented extent and if the current administration doesn't take some action, we may end up with a Democrat controlled government sooner than later....

S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree!!! The 9.9 billion is profit. It is already taking all of their expenses and so-called risk of drilling out of the figure. They are making billions, while there are a lot of people who are afraid to drive anywhere or turn their heaters on this winter. If you look on MSNBC there is an article about oil companies trying not to focus on big profit. It makes me sick. What the hell else are we supposed to focus on?

[dochummer]

We're still at $2.75 here in the northwest... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif What's also said is the diesel prices haven't budged from $3.16.

[slgcmg]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Spike:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Looks like I need to go to whereabouts unknown
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>S. Jersey </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

nevermind http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[VTSTOMPER]

$2.44 here.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">3: No matter HOW you slice it, 9.9 billion in PROFIT is disgusting considering what the country has been enduring over the past year. These companies have profiteered on the back of national disaters to an unprecedented extent and if the current administration doesn't take some action, we may end up with a Democrat controlled government sooner than later....

S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Just out of curiosity, when did high profits become "disgusting" in a Capitalist country? What business are you in? Do you not want to make maximum profits? When you sold your last house, did you not charge the maximum that the market would bear? Were you gouging? After all, there is a shortage of affordable housing in the US today. Should the government have stepped in and forced you to sell your house for less?

We've gotta be careful here. We've gotta be consistent and intellectually honest. Are we Capitalists or are we not? Do we, as consumers, have any right to dictate, through our government, retail prices to a business? If we decide we do, watch out. The legislators will take that permission and run with it - and we ALL will suffer, no matter what business we are in.

Just my 2 cents - which is all I have left after filling my rig this morning...
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Sean

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:


As to consumer control of the market, gas is not something that most people can choose an alternative for. I can't charge whatever the hell I want for my house and expect to sell it, Oil can sell for just about any price they want and people have NO CHOICE but to buy it. We are as dependant on big oil as we are on water, and the sources for that oil are so few that capitalism DOES NOT impact big oil. People can conserve a bit, but folks still need it to simply live their lives on a daily basis. Big oil knows this and stuck it to the American economy when it could least absorb the hit...that sir is disgusting. Do I favor the Gov interjecting itself? No, but when you have something so essential to our economy so out of control, then it is time to step in and stop the screw job that was/is going on.

S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If we are going to bash exxon/mobil or any oil company for charging "what they want" could we please throw in the 2 biggest monopolizing industries into the mix.

Cable and GAS.

Oil has alternatives. Cable and Gas do not. If I HAVE to heat my home with gas I can only buy it from one sourse. If I want High speed internet I have on choice. If I need to fill up my car with Gasoline, I have many choices.

[ckhagman]

sfox I find it amazing that you are the only one that REALLY understands that gas is gas. In most places it really does come all the same refinieries.

However some stations due pay less than others. Walmart probably does pay less per gallon than a guy across the street that only has one station.

The biggest problem that Exxon/Mobil has is not that they made that much money but rather that they told people they made that much money. It is ok to report it but don't cry about high costs and report high profit. Buy someone or spend the money or ****.

[HummerNewbie]

I don't agree with everything said but I do agree that it is pathetic to cry about how bad they have it after a storm, then have quarterly profits such as these http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[slgcmg]

I wonder how the airline industry is taking this news. Some have closed down and some have filed bankruptcy due to the high price of fuel. The ones that are still around are reporting huge losses every quarter.

Yes we do live in a capitalist country, but I still think the government should be able to do something regarding this. If my local electric company has to go to congress to get a rate hike approved, I don't see the difference in controlling the profit of the big oil companies.

[JMVH2]

$ 2.29 for 87 Octains here in southeast Michigan http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif Still high but much better than $ 3.18 from a month ago http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[Hummertech]

If you don't like high gas prices than pay attention to who you vote for. A certain political party would love to have the mojority of Americans use mass transit. I think you know who I'm talking about. The same political party that cried about drilling for oil in the middle of nowhere in Alaska. The party that tries to stop any new oil refineries from being built.

[ratesguy]

Interesting discussion but some points are off the mark. No new refineries have been built since 1079. Capacity in refineries has had to be reconfigured almost yearly to account for Federal and State environmental requirements as to what can be in your gasoline(there are currently 14 different gasoline formula requirements). This results in some refining capacity being underutilized in some parts of the country when demand is not there. The republicans have introduced a bill to provide incentives to build new refineries but there is some question whether oil producers can supply more oil to be refined. As for natural gas, LNG could be a major factor in increasing supply as domestic production is in decline. Opening new areas for exploration must be done or prices are only going to go higher without more supply or a very healthy cut in demand. Also all oil companies contract for supply on a long term basis with the price generally tied to a market price, so when the price goes up on the market the contract price also goes up. Same pricing mechanism all the way to the retail outlet. The only protection for large swings in prices are financial hedges, which is what Southwest has used to stay profitable. Just some ramblings on a complicated issue.

[dna]

Another thing to consider. Absolute profit amounts mean nothing - profit is based on "return on capital". Another way to look at it is suppose you made $10,000 profit in a year, but had to invest $1,000,000 to do that. Would that be good - no it would be ****ty profit for what you invested (you made 1% on your money that you tied up for the year). But if you invested only $100,000 and made $10,000 that would be excellent (the money you tied up for a year made you 10%). The absolute number means nothing unless you know how much was invested.

All major oil companies have BBBIIILLLIIIOONNNSS of dollars invested in the infrastruture. In many of their divisions, the return is worse than if they just sold the capital and put it in the bank. Putting money in the bank or smart investments guarantes 4%+ (at least) and is risk free, so why would a company operate if it makes less than that such as the retail gas indusrty.

Believe it or not, the margin is so low at the retail gas station that most would be closed if you didn't buy cigs or pop or carwashes, etc (gas alone doesn't cut it). Keep in mind that an average station sits on land worth $1.5M and that the station costs $1.5M to build which only has a life of 10-15 years until it is obsolete and needs to be closed or rebuilt again. Thus in 10 years the company must recoup the 1.5M$ to build - that means the station must profit at least $150,000/yr just to cover the investment - what about profit?? So if you heard that your local gas outlet made $200,000 profit and so did the neighbouring one and so on (which adds up when a large company has thousands of stations), would you feel cheated. You shouldn't because this is what they need just to remain open, and I know first hand that many individual stations profit much less than this which is why their overall return is worse than just selling and putting it in the bank.

[ree]

Some people are just upset because they're missing out on the profits. You want some of it? Buy stock or invest in sector funds.

That said, it is a little hard to understand complaining about getting hit hard when you're making these kinds of profits. "Oh damn, we're only going to profit 9.9 billion instead of 10.9 billion this quarter!"

Perhaps some of the appearance, though, is the media's fault. It'd be interesting to see the number of stories where a gas company exec was complaining about being hit hard compared to the number of stories where the media was just saying that the industry was getting hit hard. Perhaps we have yet another media inspired biased story for more government regulation. Anyone got some stats?

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:
You are still missing the point guys, the individual franchise owner of a service station isn't seeing jack from that 9.9 billion, that is from the parent company (if anything the rise in fuel prices are hurting the sation owners badly because people CAN'T spend as much on odds and ends once inside). The other thing you are missing is that Exxon and others are reporting RECORD profits EVERY quarter....I don't know about you, but I'd love to own a business that I could make record profits every quarter, annnnd have the goverment come and "rescue me" when disaster hits one of my facilitites.

S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You reveal yourself with that last comment. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You'd love it if it was you, but hate it when it is "them"? Interesting. As for the govt. rescuing them after a disaster....please provide some details? I know the oil companies are spending hugely to repair and get back on line their facilities. Are the Feds helping them in some way that I am not aware of?

Sean

[TootsSUT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
If you don't like high gas prices than pay attention to who you vote for. A certain political party would love to have the mojority of Americans use mass transit. I think you know who I'm talking about. The same political party that cried about drilling for oil in the middle of nowhere in Alaska. The party that tries to stop any new oil refineries from being built. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

x2!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[TootsSUT]

You reveal yourself with that last comment. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You'd love it if it was you, but hate it when it is "them"? Interesting. As for the govt. rescuing them after a disaster....please provide some details? I know the oil companies are spending hugely to repair and get back on line their facilities. Are the Feds helping them in some way that I am not aware of?

Sean[/QUOTE]
_______________________________________________

x2 again!! (pad) http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

Look! Look! I'm a Pwofesional Hummer Owner!!

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
You reveal yourself with that last comment. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif You'd love it if it was you, but hate it when it is "them"? Interesting. As for the govt. rescuing them after a disaster....please provide some details? I know the oil companies are spending hugely to repair and get back on line their facilities. Are the Feds helping them in some way that I am not aware of?

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sean,

The last comment in my last post was SARCASM, sorry, nothing revealed except the fact that you are too dense to see when someone is being a smartass. As to the federal govt helping, who has been rebuilding the pipelines between refineries?

Yes, we would all like to make as much profit as possible, but when the profit we make actual is detrimental to the economy of the country that is supporting that profit, well, that ain't right.

S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now wait...that was sarcasm? So you would NOT want to own a company with record profits and government rescues??? You're kidding, right? You wouldn't wanna own that???? Commie.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

[TootsSUT]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[Hart1]

I agree with Cato.org regarding "Profiteering"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Be that as it may, “profiteering” strikes most of us as unsavory. But it depends on the context. After all, were we serious about criminalizing price gouging, we would throw every member of the National Association of Realtors behind bars. Although the markup on housing is far more dramatic than the markup on gasoline, we don’t seem to mind. Why? Because most of us getting gouged on Sunday afternoon at the open houses hope one day to do likewise. Apparently, Americans approve of gouging as long as they’re the ones doing the deed.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
I agree with Cato.org regarding "Profiteering"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Be that as it may, “profiteering” strikes most of us as unsavory. But it depends on the context. After all, were we serious about criminalizing price gouging, we would throw every member of the National Association of Realtors behind bars. Although the markup on housing is far more dramatic than the markup on gasoline, we don’t seem to mind. Why? Because most of us getting gouged on Sunday afternoon at the open houses hope one day to do likewise. Apparently, Americans approve of gouging as long as they’re the ones doing the deed.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You Capitalist Pig!!!!
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

[PARAGON]

Exxon/Mobil by itself receives about $25 Billion in US Government subsidies every year.

Those of you who do not think something is wrong with the current fuel situation are going to wake up to severely higher prices for everything else you buy a few years down the road. Everything you buy has to be transported and the over-inflated diesel fuel prices currently seen is killing shipping.

When fuel prices can rise $0.15 because there is the possibility of a hurricane but there is no market correction, especially as quickly, then you have something that lives outside the typical ideals of supply and demand.

Why does everyone complain about OPEC price fixing, when it's apparent the major oil companies do the same thing, but somehow some of you don't feel this is the case. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
I agree with Cato.org regarding "Profiteering"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Be that as it may, “profiteering” strikes most of us as unsavory. But it depends on the context. After all, were we serious about criminalizing price gouging, we would throw every member of the National Association of Realtors behind bars. Although the markup on housing is far more dramatic than the markup on gasoline, we don’t seem to mind. Why? Because most of us getting gouged on Sunday afternoon at the open houses hope one day to do likewise. Apparently, Americans approve of gouging as long as they’re the ones doing the deed.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Stupid

[Hart1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> You Capitalist Pig!!!!

Sean
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad whore.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

ps - glad to hear you are feeling better. I was afraid you'd cough up a testicle or something......
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Does my infatuation with Jennifer make me gay?

[Hart1]

Ahh, Paragon, the Forum's very own "Idiot Savant." Again, you just don't get it....

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Exxon/Mobil by itself receives about $25 Billion in US Government subsidies every year.

Those of you who do not think something is wrong with the current fuel situation are going to wake up to severely higher prices for everything else you buy a few years down the road. Everything you buy has to be transported and the over-inflated diesel fuel prices currently seen is killing shipping.

When fuel prices can rise $0.15 because there is the possibility of a hurricane but there is no market correction, especially as quickly, then you have something that lives outside the typical ideals of supply and demand.

Why does everyone complain about OPEC price fixing, when it's apparent the major oil companies do the same thing, but somehow some of you don't feel this is the case. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I don't complain about OPEC - it's their damn oil! That's why we should drill here at home, let them shove their crude up a camel's a$$, and see what kinda mileage they get outta that!
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

[TootsSUT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad whore.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

ps - glad to hear you are feeling better. I was afraid you'd cough up a testicle or something......
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Does my infatuation with Jennifer make me gay? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Not you too??!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad whore.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

ps - glad to hear you are feeling better. I was afraid you'd cough up a testicle or something......
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Does my infatuation with Jennifer make me gay? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Not you too??!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


LMFAO!!!!!!! Shut it dood. I love you. I'm so confused.........
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_3_16.gif ('http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm86764US')
Sean

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad whore.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

ps - glad to hear you are feeling better. I was afraid you'd cough up a testicle or something......
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Does my infatuation with Jennifer make me gay? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Did you ever confirm her..... ummmm... his.... well.... shim's orientation? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
I agree with Cato.org regarding "Profiteering"

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Be that as it may, “profiteering” strikes most of us as unsavory. But it depends on the context. After all, were we serious about criminalizing price gouging, we would throw every member of the National Association of Realtors behind bars. Although the markup on housing is far more dramatic than the markup on gasoline, we don’t seem to mind. Why? Because most of us getting gouged on Sunday afternoon at the open houses hope one day to do likewise. Apparently, Americans approve of gouging as long as they’re the ones doing the deed.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dickhead, we're not talking about the housing market. Paragon is dead on with this:

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Exxon/Mobil by itself receives about $25 Billion in US Government subsidies every year.

Those of you who do not think something is wrong with the current fuel situation are going to wake up to severely higher prices for everything else you buy a few years down the road. Everything you buy has to be transported and the over-inflated diesel fuel prices currently seen is killing shipping.

When fuel prices can rise $0.15 because there is the possibility of a hurricane but there is no market correction, especially as quickly, then you have something that lives outside the typical ideals of supply and demand.

Why does everyone complain about OPEC price fixing, when it's apparent the major oil companies do the same thing, but somehow some of you don't feel this is the case. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad whore.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

ps - glad to hear you are feeling better. I was afraid you'd cough up a testicle or something......
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Does my infatuation with Jennifer make me gay? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Jesus, Mary and Joseph! Not you too??!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Your sausageness is spreading. Better posts pics to stop its spread.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[TootsSUT]

Hellooo Paragon??? You're talking about me like I'm not even here! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
Hellooo Paragon??? You're talking about me like I'm not even here! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You're not here, there's no pictures.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad whore.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

ps - glad to hear you are feeling better. I was afraid you'd cough up a testicle or something......
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Does my infatuation with Jennifer make me gay? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Did you ever confirm her..... ummmm... his.... well.... shim's orientation? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I am laughing so hard right now there are tears in my eyes. Okay, here's the deal....he/she may or not be a dood - but if he/she IS a dood, he/she is a good enough female impersonator to make me gay. He/she was far too much of a lady for me to go sticking my hand down his/her pants, and I am too much of a gentleman. All I can say is this - and Jen, are you listening?....I'd really like to solve the mystery.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad whore.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

ps - glad to hear you are feeling better. I was afraid you'd cough up a testicle or something......
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Does my infatuation with Jennifer make me gay? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Did you ever confirm her..... ummmm... his.... well.... shim's orientation? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I am laughing so hard right now there are tears in my eyes. Okay, here's the deal....he/she may or not be a dood - but if he/she IS a dood, he/she is a good enough female impersonator to make me gay. He/she was far too much of a lady for me to go sticking my hand down his/her pants, and I am too much of a gentleman. All I can say is this - and Jen, are you listening?....I'd really like to solve the mystery.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, Jen. For the sake of the entire forum.... members all over this entire world. When is this mystery going to be solved?

[DRTYFN]

Bondage, you don't have to go for the full on party grab. Just gently give her the airport smuggler's pat down- over the clothes. You don't want to have a Mag-Lite swinging in your face later.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[TootsSUT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad whore.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

ps - glad to hear you are feeling better. I was afraid you'd cough up a testicle or something......
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Does my infatuation with Jennifer make me gay? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Did you ever confirm her..... ummmm... his.... well.... shim's orientation? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I am laughing so hard right now there are tears in my eyes. Okay, here's the deal....he/she may or not be a dood - but if he/she IS a dood, he/she is a good enough female impersonator to make me gay. He/she was far too much of a lady for me to go sticking my hand down his/her pants, and I am too much of a gentleman. All I can say is this - and Jen, are you listening?....I'd really like to solve the mystery.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, Jen. For the sake of the entire forum.... members all over this entire world. When is this mystery going to be solved? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well, I was considering solving it tonight ( http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Bondage ) but this is getting to be too much fun. I think I'll be the typical female and hold out for just a bit longer. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad. Pad whore.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

ps - glad to hear you are feeling better. I was afraid you'd cough up a testicle or something......
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Does my infatuation with Jennifer make me gay? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Did you ever confirm her..... ummmm... his.... well.... shim's orientation? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I am laughing so hard right now there are tears in my eyes. Okay, here's the deal....he/she may or not be a dood - but if he/she IS a dood, he/she is a good enough female impersonator to make me gay. He/she was far too much of a lady for me to go sticking my hand down his/her pants, and I am too much of a gentleman. All I can say is this - and Jen, are you listening?....I'd really like to solve the mystery.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, Jen. For the sake of the entire forum.... members all over this entire world. When is this mystery going to be solved? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yeah, Jen - for the sake of the forum, not for me, for ALL OF US...WHEN??? Are we still on for the movies tonight or are you not speaking to me now?
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_12_9.gif ('http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm86764US')
Sean

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DRTYFN:
Bondage, you don't have to go for the full on party grab. Just gently give her the airport smuggler's pat down- over the clothes. You don't want to have a Mag-Lite swinging in your face later.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sh1t - we're all posting at the same time. LOL Okay - just between you and me...don't tell anyone - especially Jen.....I'll pat her down tonight.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean
This is our secret....DON'T TELL ANYONE!

[TootsSUT]

he/she? his/hers? dood/not dood? Go take a hike!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[h2co-pilot]

AW! This is sooooo cute!http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[TootsSUT]

By the way, what movie are we seeing?? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2co-pilot:
AW! This is sooooo cute!http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is the strangest goddam foreplay I've ever engaged in.
LMFAO!!!!
Jen - call me. The rest of you will have to wait for my report.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

[TootsSUT]

Missed that last post of yours, Bond! You'll do what tonight???? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

Maybe you and Drty should go to the movies together. You seem to be getting along quite well together! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[DennisAJC]

CAHOOTS!!!!!! CAHOOTS!!!!!!

We're being played here by two sword fighters! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[TootsSUT]

What happened to the gas conversation?? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:

3: No matter HOW you slice it, 9.9 billion in PROFIT is disgusting considering what the country has been enduring over the past year. These companies have profiteered on the back of national disaters to an unprecedented extent and if the current administration doesn't take some action, we may end up with a Democrat controlled government sooner than later....

S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So. . .was it disgusting about 3, maybe 4 years ago when oil was $10 a barrel and you were buying gas for less than a buck a gallon? You were getting a great deal, but the oil companies weren't making much in profit? It's idiotic to take one quarter out of context, you have to look at profit over the long haul.

That said, the oil companies have long complained that they didn't have enough in profit to make certain activities profitable -- like building refineries. One would hope that they would use some of this profit for research and building infrastructure.

[MovinH2]

2.55 for cheapest around here. Something needs to be done. Put their profit makings at a cap.

[DavidAragon]

Costco was the cheapest here in northern Cal.

In San Fran, it was $2.99, then up here in Novato, it was $2.79, then a bit further up in Petaluma it was $2.65

I notice that as soon as the commodities market clicks up a cent, it is reflected at the pump in 3 seconds. However, if it the market goes down 30 cents, the price at the pump doesn't go down for 3 weeks! $##$@@!#

[Poseur]

I notice that as soon as the commodities market clicks up a cent, it is reflected at the pump in 3 seconds. However, if it the market goes down 30 cents, the price at the pump doesn't go down for 3 weeks! $##$@@!#
It's because the station owners will raise the price of gas with the market even though the gas in their tanks was purchased at a lower price. Once they refill those tanks at the higher gas price, they cannot lower their price much and make a profit on the gas they are holding so they must keep the price up even after the pricing goes back down until they refill their tanks at the new lower price.

[dochummer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
By the way, what movie are we seeing?? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Dumbo http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[Dan]

9˝ Weeks http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:

Those of you who do not think something is wrong with the current fuel situation are going to wake up to severely higher prices for everything else you buy a few years down the road. Everything you buy has to be transported and the over-inflated diesel fuel prices currently seen is killing shipping.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hasn't that already happened? I have been seeing fuel surcharges on UPS shippments for a lot longer than 2 months.

[h2co-pilot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
By the way, what movie are we seeing?? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Crying Game http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2co-pilot:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Jennifer:
By the way, what movie are we seeing?? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Crying Game http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Hart1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Dickhead, we're not talking about the housing market. Paragon is dead on with this: </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, your comprehension is just amazing. You stuck on Stupid too?

The point being, is that we don't complain about the "profiteering" in other businesses when it might benefit us. Think on this for awhile, you may just "get it".

At any rate, Capitalism is a two way street.

When gas prices are "low" we are the recipient of market forces at that time, which we do not mind. Now that the market forces are not to our liking, some cry, only wanting it "one way"

Notwithstanding, this was not my quote, this was the quote from Doug Bandow, who is a "Senior Fellow at the Cato Institute and a former Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan."

No offense, but when all is said and done, your "views" just don't hold water, dickhead. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Hart1]

More from Doug Bandow.....

October 27, 2005


Price Gouging in the Public Interest
by Doug Bandow

Doug Bandow is a Senior Fellow at the Cato Institute and a former Special Assistant to President Ronald Reagan.

Gasoline costs too much in almost everyone's opinion. President George W. Bush is urging Americans to drive less. Other politicians want government to push prices down.

Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., suggests giving the president the power to set retail gas prices. Sen. Byron L. Dorgan, D-N.D., complains that companies are "profiting in an extraordinary way at the expense of the American consumer" and has proposed a windfall profits tax.

Eight governors have requested a federal probe of gasoline pricing. Hawaii has imposed controls on wholesale prices. Other states might follow suit.

"We really need to step back and recognize that, like electricity, gasoline is too vital to the economy to be left in the hands of these corporations that have been gouging us," argues Doug Heller of the misnamed Foundation for Taxpayer and Consumer Rights in Los Angeles.

Price controls have been around as long as prices. And price controls have had disastrous effects for just as long.

Heller's argument makes no sense. After all, if ExxonMobil and Royal Dutch Shell could simply conspire to push up prices, they would have done so before now.

Gasoline prices have recently increased for a number of reasons. One is growing demand. The emergence of China and secondarily India as industrial powers is transforming the global market.

Another reason prices are high - and have spiked in response to the damage inflicted by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita - is pervasive regulation. Most important, it has become extraordinarily difficult to build oil refineries.

Both the number of refineries and their total capacity is lower today than in 1980. The last new refinery opened in 1976, even though gasoline consumption has jumped 25 percent since then.

Today, the U.S. must import 10 percent of its gasoline as well as 57 percent of its oil. Thus, even the temporary closure of several refineries by Hurricane Katrina and Hurricane Rita sharply inflated pump prices.

Environmental regulations, backed by activists who mix demonstrations and lawsuits, create delays and inflate costs.

One Arizona project begun a decade ago is still at least five years away from completion.

Over the last 10 years the industry has invested $47 billion to comply with new environmental controls rather than construct new capacity, according to the American Petroleum Institute. Compliance with sulfur standards alone cost about $20 billion.

Although the recent energy bill included provisions intended to spur refinery construction, it added a new ethanol mandate - a political payoff to agricultural interests - which will force expensive technical adaptations at refineries. Air pollution rules require different gasoline formulations for "nonattainment" areas, reducing economies of scale.

While consumers target gas stations with their ire, the bulk of recent price hikes have gone to refiners. In contrast, distributors, marketers, and retailers receive just a penny more than in 2004.

Even today, prices at the pump are constrained by local competition. If gas stations could charge as much as they desired, they would have been doing so already.

Government also pushes up prices through taxes, which average 42 cents a gallon nationally. In Hawaii, where the state government has imposed price controls, the combined state and federal tax is more than 50 cents.

High prices might be painful, but they are the most efficient way to distribute goods in short supply. Indeed, the industry attempts to spread gasoline as widely as possible. Wholesalers charge "over-allocation" fees to discourage any distributor from accumulating a disproportionate share of limited resources.

Quite simply: prices rise when supplies fall. That signals consumers to use less and sellers to supply more. Price controls short-circuit the adjustment process and intensify shortages.

That was the experience during the mid-1970s gas "crisis."

Citizens in the world's wealthiest country sat in gas lines because the federal government allocated supplies and restricted prices.

Only when newly inaugurated President Ronald Reagan lifted price controls did supplies jump and prices fall. Federal energy regulation was a public policy disaster that should never be repeated.

The United States also imposed a windfall profits tax between 1980 and 1987. Alas, the WPT discouraged companies from making potentially risky investments.

In 1990 the Congressional Research Service concluded: "The WPT reduced domestic oil production between 3 percent and 6 percent, and increased oil imports from between 8 percent and 16 percent." Replaying the old WPT would replay its effect, helping foreign producers and hurting domestic consumers.

As Hurricanes Katrina and Rita demonstrated, natural disasters can create severe economic dislocations. Adjustments almost always are difficult.

But government intervention always exacerbates the pain. If gasoline seems expensive today, just try turning the energy market over to government.

[PARAGON]

If someone wrote it, you must believe it.

Over the past few years, during normal times, how many times have you heard about a shortage of fuel? You haven't. We produce enough fuel so the crap about increase demand being the culprit here is BS.

That dumb article might have been applicatory 15 years ago, but today there is a monopoly of sorts in the oil industry. All the industry needs is a remote excuse to artificially inflate the fuel prices even if that excuse doesn't come to fruition.

The fact that fuel prices can rise in anticipation of a hurricane or something happening with the war shows that there is something alltogether different than supply and demand controlling prices.

[H2Finally]

Paragon is dead on with this.

If pure supply and demand explain price increases, it SHOULD adjust downwards quickly also, when the "emergencies" are removed (as others have stated).

The above article seemed to be geared to "calm" consumers anger over retail gas stations' prices (-- "In contrast, distributors, marketers, and retailers receive just a penny more than in 2004"). The complaint here is against ExxonMobil, not individual gas station owners.

The point of how many billions was costing the petroleum industry to comply with regulations is IRRELEVANT simply because the $9.9 billion profit has absorbed any and all such costs (hence, PROFIT).

Housing price inflation is NOT the least bit comparable. As others have also stated, you have a choice of other houses to buy, no real choice about other means of auto fuel (at least none economical). Too, the increase in housing pairs with many increases in living standards (more spacious rooms, attached garage standard, better insulations, upgraded wiring, better fridge, etc.). In what way does today's expensive gas improve my living standard? Last, housing cost is an INVESTMENT. You can recoup (even at some lost if necessary) when you sell. How you gonna get back your gas EXPENSES?

Remember, $9.9Billion is profit of JUST 1 GAWD-DAMN COMPANY (record for any company in any industry in the US). Isn't the close second place running another $9+billion profit?! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
If someone wrote it, you must believe it.

Over the past few years, during normal times, how many times have you heard about a shortage of fuel? You haven't. We produce enough fuel so the crap about increase demand being the culprit here is BS.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oil is a global issue not a US issue. Prices for a lot of goods and services have gone up but oil is supposed to stay down? Our demand has gone up and our production has not.

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2Finally:

Remember, $9.9Billion is profit of JUST 1 GAWD-DAMN COMPANY (record for any company in any industry in the US). Isn't the close second place running another $9+billion profit?! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I would like to know what Exxon/Mobils ROI was on this 9.9 billion. i.e. if last years was 2% and this years was 2% then who really cares. But if this hear was significantly higher like 6% or more than it is a problem.

[H2Finally]

P R O F I T $9.9 BILLION FOR 1 QUARTER.

ALL ARGUMENTS ARE BELONG TO IRRELEVANT http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Poseur:
I notice that as soon as the commodities market clicks up a cent, it is reflected at the pump in 3 seconds. However, if it the market goes down 30 cents, the price at the pump doesn't go down for 3 weeks! $##$@@!#
It's because the station owners will raise the price of gas with the market even though the gas in their tanks was purchased at a lower price. Once they refill those tanks at the higher gas price, they cannot lower their price much and make a profit on the gas they are holding so they must keep the price up even after the pricing goes back down until they refill their tanks at the new lower price. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Station owners are working from tank load to tank load. EACH fuel delievery is paid for or has to be paid for buy wire transfer in less than 24hours. Most tanks at stations are 20,000gals and each station might have 3. 2 tanks of 87 and 1 tank of premium. Not a whole lot of stations can turn over 20,000gals in a day when the average is only 100,000 to 150,000gals a month. Sure 1 station might be able to turn over 1,000,000gals a month but it is very rare.

[1BADH2]

WTF?! Still $2.70 in NY http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[ratesguy]

Whoever said pipelines are receiving aid to be rebuilt does'nt know what they are talking about. Pipelines are underground. They were taken out of service just before the huricanes hit because of anticipated damage to offshore facilities. The above ground stations were not severely damaged and were put back into sevice almost immediately. No aid was applied for or received, as pipelines are regulated on a cost of service basis by the FERC.

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:

Have you been paying attention to their quarterly profit reports for the last couple of years? They have recorded RECORD profits alomst every quarter for quite some time now.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what? Let me get this straight. . . Those who invest in Exxon Mobile pony up the dough to do the research, do the drilling, get the oil, refine it, and get it to market. They take all the risks and the company does all the work. For their risk and effort, when demand is high (and it's never been higher), they get to charge what the market will pay (and India and China will PAY!).

But you, doing nothing to find, drill, recover, refine, or retail the oil somehow should get it cheap? The Exxon investors should forego their profit so you can drive around all you want without spending more money?

Man oh man. . . you must be VERY special!
Either that or a socialist. . .

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:

Have you been paying attention to their quarterly profit reports for the last couple of years? They have recorded RECORD profits alomst every quarter for quite some time now.
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So what? Let me get this straight. . . Those who invest in Exxon Mobile pony up the dough to do the research, do the drilling, get the oil, refine it, and get it to market. They take all the risks and the company does all the work. For their risk and effort, when demand is high (and it's never been higher), they get to charge what the market will pay (and India and China will PAY!).

But you, doing nothing to find, drill, recover, refine, or retail the oil somehow should get it cheap? The Exxon investors should forego their profit so you can drive around all you want without spending more money?

Man oh man. . . you must be VERY special!
Either that or a socialist. . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I find that many "hard-core" conservatives become socialists the moment something affects their own wallet. Principaled, sincere, real conservatism requires one to be intellectually honest and accept the bad with the good that comes from a sincerely held and CONSISTENT belief system.

Sean

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ckhagman:
]

I would like to know what Exxon/Mobils ROI was on this 9.9 billion. i.e. if last years was 2% and this years was 2% then who really cares. But if this hear was significantly higher like 6% or more than it is a problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why is it a problem? Who are you, or who is anybody, to say how much profit a company should make? How much money do you make? How much of a pay raise did you get this year? Last year? Does anyone but your employer have a right to say if it's too much or too little?

How much money did you risk over the last X years to make sure gas gets to market? I'll bet that if you were heavily invested in XOM, you'd be singin' a different damn song. . .

[H2Finally]

The ability of a company to make a profit is NOT the point.

The point is about how we are all FORCED to pay MUCH HIGHER gas prices because of xyz reasons -- then to find out that those xyz reasons = bullsheit -- because this ONE company alone is earning $9.9 BILLION IN 1 QTR.

When Microsoft was deemed "too monopolistic" it got censured by the government. That was for a computer o/s software with lots of alternative CHOICES for the consumers (you can buy a Macintosh instead).

When Exxon earns $9.9B and the second company earns $9+B PROFIT/QUARTER ("cartel"??!) -- WHERE THE CONSUMERS HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BUY GAS TO LIVE (don't get semantic and bring up peanut-oil-powered cars http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif) -- where is the government intervention?

Here's a closer analogy:

If the bird flu virus becomes a rampage in the US, and Roche said "Hey! DEMAND IS UP!!" and charged $10,000 per tablet of Tamiflu and make $9.9B for that quarter -- do you think there will be a public outcry?

Summary:
I don't have a problem if I can CHOOSE to pay the price and make that company rich. But when I'm FORCED to pay the price, http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Why so surprised with THIS pubic outcry?

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:

I find that many "hard-core" conservatives become socialists the moment something affects their own wallet. Principaled, sincere, real conservatism requires one to be intellectually honest and accept the bad with the good that comes from a sincerely held and CONSISTENT belief system.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Quite true. And sad when people allow self interests to influence principle.

Here's the thing. . . There is only one circumstance that I can imagine where one could find fault with Exxon. If, absent government interference either here or abroad, they were selling oil and gas around the world for $N and with no other costs involved, they were selling it to US customers for $Nx2 or $Nx3, that might be gouging. Otherwise, as far as I'm concerned, they're entitled to charge what the market will pay. The oil business is an expensive venture. . .they have a right to make a profit.

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2Finally:
The ability of a company to make a profit is NOT the point.

The point is about how we are all FORCED to pay MUCH HIGHER gas prices because of xyz reasons -- then to find out that those xyz reasons = bullsheit -- because this ONE company alone is earning $9.9 BILLION IN 1 QTR.

When Microsoft was deemed "too monopolistic" it got censured by the government. That was for a computer o/s software with lots of alternative CHOICES for the consumers (you can buy a Macintosh instead).

When Exxon earns $9.9B and the second company earns $9+B PROFIT/QUARTER ("cartel"??!) -- WHERE THE CONSUMERS HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BUY GAS TO LIVE (don't get semantic and bring up peanut-oil-powered cars http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif) -- where is the government intervention?

Here's a closer analogy:

If the bird flu virus becomes a rampage in the US, and Roche said "Hey! DEMAND IS UP!!" and charged $10,000 per tablet of Tamiflu and make $9.9B for that quarter -- do you think there will be a public outcry?

Summary:
I don't have a problem if I can CHOOSE to pay the price and make that company rich. But when I'm FORCED to pay the price, http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Why so surprised with THIS pubic outcry? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stuff and nonsense. You're saying this in a Hummer forum, for Christ sake. You have all kinds of choices, as do I, as do most Americans. And Exxon doesn't have a 95% market share like Microsoft (which, by the way, I fully support even if they are a monopoly. They were smart enough and tough enough to market a product that everyone now uses. They deserve to reap the benefits).

You want to blame someone? Blame the government. We still aren't drilling in parts of Alaska or in parts of the Gulf. We haven't built a new refinery in 25 years and government regulations make it a long and expensive process to complete. And if Exxon made a $10 billion profit, I wonder how much a profit was made by federal, state, and local governments that also take a cut of what you and I pay.

And if you really believe you are FORCED to pay, you are seriously deluding yourself. You are paying it because you want to. . .just like I am. I could drive my Stealth and get 2.5 time the gas milage I get in my SUT. Or I could buy a hybrid or I could ride a bike. So could you. . .

Forced. . .what a joke! One would think you were living in the USSR. . .

[CslRkH2]

Gas Taxes are fixed per gallon and not based on a percentage. So when gas prices rise, the gov't doesn't gain.

When a company makes more than Microsoft & Walmart COMBINED in a QTR when they were complaining about damage to facilities and BLAH Freakin BLAH, then I'll call BULLSH!T

[Ted]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CslRkH2:
Gas Taxes are fixed per gallon and not based on a percentage. So when gas prices rise, the gov't doesn't gain.

When a company makes more than Microsoft & Walmart COMBINED in a QTR when they were complaining about damage to facilities and BLAH Freakin BLAH, then I'll call BULLSH!T </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I can’t believe people are so freaked out about big profits. It’s the American way. That is why business exist, to maximize profits. I just say they are well run corporations.

Now we have dumb ass members of congress taking about a windfall profits tax. Isn’t that great, we are going to let the government decide when a company makes too much money.

If you don’t like the price of gas don’t buy it.

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CslRkH2:
Gas Taxes are fixed per gallon and not based on a percentage. So when gas prices rise, the gov't doesn't gain.

When a company makes more than Microsoft & Walmart COMBINED in a QTR when they were complaining about damage to facilities and BLAH Freakin BLAH, then I'll call BULLSH!T </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh course you would. . .unless you had invested the money or done the work over the long haul to make it possible. And all the fact that gas taxes are a fixed amount means is that taxes become a smaller percentage at the pump. XOM is still paying corporate taxes which are a percentage of profit, not to mention the income taxes paid by their employees on the money they earn.

In 1971, a pack of cigarettes and a gallon of gas both cost about 35 cents. Cigarettes now cost about $5 a pack and a gallon of gas seems to have settled in at about $2.50. Compared to the increases in the cost of butts, milk, bread. . .even the cost of cars (I bought a new Mustang II in 74 and it cost me $4000. . .I don't own a car now that cost less than $40,000 new), gas is still a bargain.

Get over it. . .

[CslRkH2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CslRkH2:
Gas Taxes are fixed per gallon and not based on a percentage. So when gas prices rise, the gov't doesn't gain.

When a company makes more than Microsoft & Walmart COMBINED in a QTR when they were complaining about damage to facilities and BLAH Freakin BLAH, then I'll call BULLSH!T </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Oh course you would. . .unless you had invested the money or done the work over the long haul to make it possible. And all the fact that gas taxes are a fixed amount means is that taxes become a smaller percentage at the pump. XOM is still paying corporate taxes which are a percentage of profit, not to mention the income taxes paid by their employees on the money they earn.

In 1971, a pack of cigarettes and a gallon of gas both cost about 35 cents. Cigarettes now cost about $5 a pack and a gallon of gas seems to have settled in at about $2.50. Compared to the increases in the cost of butts, milk, bread. . .even the cost of cars (I bought a new Mustang II in 74 and it cost me $4000. . .I don't own a car now that cost less than $40,000 new), gas is still a bargain.

Get over it. . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am not against big profits or looking for any more laws. I think the current laws against collusion should be enforced in this situation.

When a company like Walmart or Microsoft dominates a market through competitive practices (i.e. volume purchasing and lower prices than their comp) that is one thing. When the 4 oil companies collude and decide to stick it to EVERY American, not just the ones that can afford a HUMMER or several $40k cars then that;s just wrong.

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CslRkH2:

I am not against big profits or looking for any more laws. I think the current laws against collusion should be enforced in this situation.

When a company like Walmart or Microsoft dominates a market through competitive practices (i.e. volume purchasing and lower prices than their comp) that is one thing. When the 4 oil companies collude and decide to stick it to EVERY American, not just the ones that can afford a HUMMER or several $40k cars then that;s just wrong. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Collusion? Really? Interesting. . .So, over the last 35 years or so, when the price of gas has gone up, would you say that the oil companies are in collusion? If so, how about when the price goes down as it always does to some extent?

Your suggestion that the oil companies got together and agreed to boost the prices for a period of about a month are patently rediculous. If they were agreeing to raise prices, then why not just keep them at $3 a gallon? Or $3.50? Did they collude to keep the prices at a buck a few years ago? Every time the price of gas goes up, people scream that the oil companies get together and impose high prices, but if they had the power to do that, why do the prices always go back down again? Why not keep the price of gas and heating oil high all the time?

Like I said, gas is cheap by comparison to almost anything you can buy now compared to 30 years ago. Oil companies aren't charities. . .oil is a market based commodity. Some folks seem to think that, along with "privacy," you can find some kind of kind of right to cheap gas in the US Consitution. I hate to be the one to break it to you, but unless you want to refine the oil yourself (which you do have a right to do), you've got to pay the market rate.

[CslRkH2]

Collusion...I know it will never be investigated or proven. But I'm surprised that you find it such a stretch. And No, in the 70s there actually were fuel shortages. Thus the supply side of the equation caused prices to increase. In the past couple months supply and demand has been constant (other than a few specific areas). From the financial stmts there doesn't seem to be any reason for these latest price spikes other than pure greed.

[PARAGON]

What a bunch of F'ing idiots. You are simply trying to win an argument instead of offering anything of real value to the discussion. Trying to make things personal. "It's a Hummer forum..." "you don't have to buy the fuel".

Just F'ing idiots. Everything..... absolutely everything in the US economy is affected by the price of fuel. Everything you buy from the sandpaper you wipe your butt with to the Evian water you drink is affected by the price of fuel. If you don't understand that there are only a handful of oil companies that directly and daily control fuel prices, then move on, you don't have enough knowledge to participate in this discussion.

The oil market of the past 3-5 years is nothing near the oil market it was before. Why in the hell are gas prices dropping now? Because they were caught with their hand in the cookie jar, nothing else. There were no production increases or anything else to explain the $0.25 drop in regular gasoline except pressure was starting to be applied. Did a correlating drop in diesel fuel happen? NO! Why? Because trucking companies are passing the buck along to the consumer right now and are not crying as much, except for the little businesses that don't matter.

Let me say this one more time for those of you that don't realize this. Exxon/Mobil receives about $25,000,000,000 ($25B) every year in some form of subsidies from the United States Government. So, if you don't understand why this argument needs to be had then there is no one intelligent enough to explain it to you.

If you still don't get it and think they are simply trying to make a profit. Exxon/Mobil is sitting on over $30BILLION is liquid cash. CASH!!! If you can't add all of this up and see that a publicly traded company that provides a commercial necessity to the US economy, who also receives ridiculous amounts of subsidy from the government, and then is able to nationally increase the price of fuel in the matter of a day, then..... ding, your fries are done!

[DennisAJC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
What a bunch of F'ing idiots. You are simply trying to win an argument instead of offering anything of real value to the discussion. Trying to make things personal. "It's a Hummer forum..." "you don't have to buy the fuel".

Just F'ing idiots. Everything..... absolutely everything in the US economy is affected by the price of fuel. Everything you buy from the sandpaper you wipe your butt with to the Evian water you drink is affected by the price of fuel. If you don't understand that there are only a handful of oil companies that directly and daily control fuel prices, then move on, you don't have enough knowledge to participate in this discussion.

The oil market of the past 3-5 years is nothing near the oil market it was before. Why in the hell are gas prices dropping now? Because they were caught with their hand in the cookie jar, nothing else. There were no production increases or anything else to explain the $0.25 drop in regular gasoline except pressure was starting to be applied. Did a correlating drop in diesel fuel happen? NO! Why? Because trucking companies are passing the buck along to the consumer right now and are not crying as much, except for the little businesses that don't matter.

Let me say this one more time for those of you that don't realize this. Exxon/Mobil receives about $25,000,000,000 ($25B) every year in some form of subsidies from the United States Government. So, if you don't understand why this argument needs to be had then there is no one intelligent enough to explain it to you.

If you still don't get it and think they are simply trying to make a profit. Exxon/Mobil is sitting on over $30BILLION is liquid cash. CASH!!! If you can't add all of this up and see that a publicly traded company that provides a commercial necessity to the US economy, who also receives ridiculous amounts of subsidy from the government, and then is able to nationally increase the price of fuel in the matter of a day, then..... ding, your fries are done! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


SO ENDETH THE LESSON. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[h2co-pilot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Blah blah...crappity crap...never got into this thread so I didn't read it all but I caught this: then..... ding, your fries are done! and LMAO- love CP </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[H2Finally]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
Forced. . .what a joke! One would think you were living in the USSR. . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What's got to do with the Hummer? No matter what you drive, you need gas, no? If you are not "forced" to buy gas, to work, to live -- and have another secret (non gas) source of power for your daily driver, do share http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif If not, then..... ding, your fries are done!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ted:
If you don’t like the price of gas don’t buy it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> No matter what you drive, you need gas, no? If you are not "forced" to buy gas, to work, to live -- and have another secret (non gas) source of power for your daily driver, do share http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif If not, then..... ding, your fries are done!

[Ted]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Exxon/Mobil receives about $25,000,000,000 ($25B) every year in some form of subsidies from the United States Government. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BTW, were did you get this figure from?

[Ted]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2Finally:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
Forced. . .what a joke! One would think you were living in the USSR. . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>What's got to do with the Hummer? No matter what you drive, you need gas, no? If you are not "forced" to buy gas, to work, to live -- and have another secret (non gas) source of power for your daily driver, do share http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif If not, then..... ding, your fries are done!

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ted:
If you don’t like the price of gas don’t buy it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> No matter what you drive, you need gas, no? If you are not "forced" to buy gas, to work, to live -- and have another secret (non gas) source of power for your daily driver, do share http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif If not, then..... ding, your fries are done! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not the one pissing and moaning about gas prices, and Exxon's profits.

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
What a bunch of F'ing idiots. You are simply trying to win an argument instead of offering anything of real value to the discussion. Trying to make things personal. "It's a Hummer forum..." "you don't have to buy the fuel".

Just F'ing idiots. Everything..... absolutely everything in the US economy is affected by the price of fuel. Everything you buy from the sandpaper you wipe your butt with to the Evian water you drink is affected by the price of fuel. If you don't understand that there are only a handful of oil companies that directly and daily control fuel prices, then move on, you don't have enough knowledge to participate in this discussion.

The oil market of the past 3-5 years is nothing near the oil market it was before. Why in the hell are gas prices dropping now? Because they were caught with their hand in the cookie jar, nothing else. There were no production increases or anything else to explain the $0.25 drop in regular gasoline except pressure was starting to be applied. Did a correlating drop in diesel fuel happen? NO! Why? Because trucking companies are passing the buck along to the consumer right now and are not crying as much, except for the little businesses that don't matter.

Let me say this one more time for those of you that don't realize this. Exxon/Mobil receives about $25,000,000,000 ($25B) every year in some form of subsidies from the United States Government. So, if you don't understand why this argument needs to be had then there is no one intelligent enough to explain it to you.

If you still don't get it and think they are simply trying to make a profit. Exxon/Mobil is sitting on over $30BILLION is liquid cash. CASH!!! If you can't add all of this up and see that a publicly traded company that provides a commercial necessity to the US economy, who also receives ridiculous amounts of subsidy from the government, and then is able to nationally increase the price of fuel in the matter of a day, then..... ding, your fries are done! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It seems clear that you are the right one to identify F'ing idiots from the content of your post. . .and your ability to relate a ding sound to finished fast food obviously comes from recent personal experience.

Check the commodity market for futures prices, Einstien. Check the world demand increases over the last few years, especially in India and China. Pick up the Wall Street Journal or, God Forbid, read a book. It's a global economy and we're not the only ones consuming oil. Regardless of how quickly they were able to get refineries back on line, the fact that 15 or 20 of them were off-line reduced supply. . .and that increases price. Distiribution was disrupted and that reduced supply. . .and that increases price. And why are prices going back down? The refineries are back on line and distribution has been squared away. That increases supply and reduces the price. It's called economics 101.

My point is now and has been that the price of gas is what it is. . . and it's still cheap by any measure. And I don't care if XOM is sitting on 100 billion in cash. They earn it and they are entitled to sit on it or flush it down the john if they wish. You don't like the price of gas? You think they are all crooks? Then open your own oil company and sell gas for a nickel a gallon.

[HUMMERDOGG]

I'm an energy trader and believer in free markets. Price is merely a reflection of supply/demand balances regardless what anyone says. All I can say is that the market is high right now because it is pricing in the following:

1)Political unrest in some of the largest oil producing countries in the world. Read Russia, Middle East, Nigeria, Venuezuela, etc...
2)World Daily Supply/Demand balances for Crude Oil have continued to shrink.
3)Location of some of the largest US oil and natural gas production is offshore. It just happens to reside in the Gulf of Mexico and for 6 months out of every year is the target of Mother Nature which has the ability to literally wipe out or severly reduce production out there with just a few days notice.
4)Location and capacity of refineries. Again, a majority of our refining capacity in the US is also located on the coastlines of the Gulf of Mexico and is subject to the same exposure as our production.
5)US refining capacity is limited and outdated and is subject to frequent downtime.
5)US pipeline system is also limted and outdated.

The thing is, we have the technology nowadays to help alleviate alot of this but it is just taking time to get production from this new technology brought online. Coal Gasification Technology for Natural Gas, Canadian Tar Sands for Crude Oil, LNG imports for Natural Gas, etc...

We have the ability to build safer nuclear power plant and cleaner coal fired power plants which both would help help alleviate alot of the strain on natural gas supplies. People forget that back in '98 and '99 we had huge power shortages and because of this, alot of natural gas combined cycle power generation was built.

We have the ability with biodiesel and ethanol to help supplment the refining capacity with unleaded gas, diesel and heating oil.

We continue to build LNG terminals on the various coastlines to bring in this cheap form of natural gas. The issue there is that we need additional pipeline infrastructure inland to help get this natural gas to market. Same thing with coal, we need a more efficient railline system to get coal to market.

Ultimately, we either have to get energy prices high enough that you have permanent demand destruction and the supply/demand balances fall back in-line or people are going to have to come to grips that we are going to have to drill for oil and natural gas in politically sensitive areas, and people are going to have to allow us to build infrastructure in "their backyard".

Everyone forgets that it was only 4 years ago when we had $18 crude and $1.90 natural gas and gasoline and diesel were less than $1.25/gal...

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERDOGG:
I'm an energy trader and believer in free markets. Price is merely a reflection of supply/demand balances regardless what anyone says.

<snip>

Everyone forgets that it was only 4 years ago when we had $18 crude and $1.90 natural gas and gasoline and diesel were less than $1.25/gal... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo. I think that offers something "of real value to the discussion" and wins the argument at the same time.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERDOGG:
I'm an energy trader and believer in free markets. Price is merely a reflection of supply/demand balances regardless what anyone says.

<snip>

Everyone forgets that it was only 4 years ago when we had $18 crude and $1.90 natural gas and gasoline and diesel were less than $1.25/gal... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo. I think that offers something "of real value to the discussion" and wins the argument at the same time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>First it doesn't address the price at the pump at all and secondly, I think you must be above your pay grade here. "wins the argument." Is that what you are trying to do? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERDOGG:
Price is merely a reflection of supply/demand balances regardless what anyone says. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Dogg, respectfully this is simply not true. When the price at the pump can be raised due to the fear of future "production" disruption, this is not being controlled by supply/demand.

When Opec can artificially control the price/barrell by lowering production, that does not follow typical supply/demand. World supply has not magically jump 100% in 4 years yet prices at the pump have, with nothing but "fear" from the war as the reason for the increase.

Any other business that saw a 100% increase in retail cost in such a short period due to supply/demand would have experience a shortfall in product available, which would cause the increase. We have had no gas shortages. Even when Katrina hit there were no shortages due to supply. The only shortages created were due to lack of electricity to fill the trucks so they could get to the stations. The facility here in MS had enough to continue it's normal supply for nearly a month without any additional refining. This why the release of strategic petroleum reserves was just not a big deal and would have very little effect.

Speaking of 4 years ago. That was after all of the mega-mergers of the oil companies took place. The industry was found to have been price fixing even then by cutting refining production and holding back delivery of produced fuels to get prices higher. Again, in 4 years demand has not increased 100%, supply and prices are being controlled by the fewer larger, merged oil companies just like OPEC can control the price for a barrel of crude. In the US, though, we have anti-trust laws to supposedly guard against this.

Whether collusion is occuring amongst the major oil companies (I wouldn't be surprised) is one thing, but price-fixing is definitely occuring and it is totally and completely outside the parameters of common supply/demand.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERDOGG:
I'm an energy trader and believer in free markets. Price is merely a reflection of supply/demand balances regardless what anyone says.

<snip>

Everyone forgets that it was only 4 years ago when we had $18 crude and $1.90 natural gas and gasoline and diesel were less than $1.25/gal... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo. I think that offers something "of real value to the discussion" and wins the argument at the same time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FreeorDie,

You are wasting your time here. It's like having a college professor lecturing quantum physics to a kindergarten class. Discretion is the better part of valor. You should smile, surrender, and move on.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Sean

[TootsSUT]

Good mornin, Bond! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[slgcmg]

I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it more funny that you assume that because somebody shares the same likes in vehicle choice that automatically bars them from being called a f'ing idiot. For all I know you or any other posters in this thread except for a few that I do know for sure, don't own an H2, so that's a moot point to begin with.

You saw f'ing idiot comments because certain people were more concerned with winning an argument and saying things like "you own a Hummer, why are you worried about gas prices" or "you are discussing gas prices in a Hummer forum" and they themselves called others "idiot." Turnabout is fair play.

Arguing without any facts or knowledge is as deserving of the "f'ing idiot" monicker as anything else I can think of. Besides, you have not been around here long enough to develop an opinion on how one conducts themselves in this forum. Until you understand the mores of the forum sit back and try to "catch" some of what's going on. IE - turnabout is fair play.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it more funny that you assume that because somebody shares the same likes in vehicle choice that automatically bars them from being called a f'ing idiot. For all I know you or any other posters in this thread except for a few that I do know for sure, don't own an H2, so that's a moot point to begin with.

You saw f'ing idiot comments because certain people were more concerned with winning an argument and saying things like "you own a Hummer, why are you worried about gas prices" or "you are discussing gas prices in a Hummer forum" and they themselves called others "idiot." Turnabout is fair play.

Arguing without any facts or knowledge is as deserving of the "f'ing idiot" monicker as anything else I can think of. Besides, you have not been around here long enough to develop an opinion on how one conducts themselves in this forum. Until you understand the mores of the forum sit back and try to "catch" some of what's going on. IE - turnabout is fair play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Well written, you ****ing idiot.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Sean

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it more funny that you assume that because somebody shares the same likes in vehicle choice that automatically bars them from being called a f'ing idiot. For all I know you or any other posters in this thread except for a few that I do know for sure, don't own an H2, so that's a moot point to begin with.

You saw f'ing idiot comments because certain people were more concerned with winning an argument and saying things like "you own a Hummer, why are you worried about gas prices" or "you are discussing gas prices in a Hummer forum" and they themselves called others "idiot." Turnabout is fair play.

Arguing without any facts or knowledge is as deserving of the "f'ing idiot" monicker as anything else I can think of. Besides, you have not been around here long enough to develop an opinion on how one conducts themselves in this forum. Until you understand the mores of the forum sit back and try to "catch" some of what's going on. IE - turnabout is fair play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Well written, you ****ing idiot.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Speaking of f'ing idiot. Did we get confirmation? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Does dude look like a lady? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[slgcmg]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it more funny that you assume that because somebody shares the same likes in vehicle choice that automatically bars them from being called a f'ing idiot. For all I know you or any other posters in this thread except for a few that I do know for sure, don't own an H2, so that's a moot point to begin with.

You saw f'ing idiot comments because certain people were more concerned with winning an argument and saying things like "you own a Hummer, why are you worried about gas prices" or "you are discussing gas prices in a Hummer forum" and they themselves called others "idiot." Turnabout is fair play.

Arguing without any facts or knowledge is as deserving of the "f'ing idiot" monicker as anything else I can think of. Besides, you have not been around here long enough to develop an opinion on how one conducts themselves in this forum. Until you understand the mores of the forum sit back and try to "catch" some of what's going on. IE - turnabout is fair play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>..

thanks for making me laugh again. keep them coming. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I wasn't aware of the time restriction for opinions on members. Should I wait another couple of years to put an opinion out there?

[PARAGON]

From a gentlemanly standpoint visual confirmation is fine. No need to report tactile confirmation. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it more funny that you assume that because somebody shares the same likes in vehicle choice that automatically bars them from being called a f'ing idiot. For all I know you or any other posters in this thread except for a few that I do know for sure, don't own an H2, so that's a moot point to begin with.

You saw f'ing idiot comments because certain people were more concerned with winning an argument and saying things like "you own a Hummer, why are you worried about gas prices" or "you are discussing gas prices in a Hummer forum" and they themselves called others "idiot." Turnabout is fair play.

Arguing without any facts or knowledge is as deserving of the "f'ing idiot" monicker as anything else I can think of. Besides, you have not been around here long enough to develop an opinion on how one conducts themselves in this forum. Until you understand the mores of the forum sit back and try to "catch" some of what's going on. IE - turnabout is fair play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



Well written, you ****ing idiot.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Speaking of f'ing idiot. Did we get confirmation? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif Does dude look like a lady? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I may die later, but check out the last posts in the Hummer Hater thread.......
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
I find it funny that people on this forum who share the same love for vehicles call eachother F'in idiots or say they work at a fast food resteraunt because they have a different opinion. I really don't think that anyone on this forum who has put themselves in a position financially to afford a Hummer is an F'in idiot. I also have never seen a fry cook drive an Hummer either. My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items.

So all of the hate posts I see, I laugh, and wonder how someone could be so ignorant. I wonder would the response be that hateful if it were face to face rather then face to screen. I am guessing no, which makes it even funnier. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I find it more funny that you assume that because somebody shares the same likes in vehicle choice that automatically bars them from being called a f'ing idiot. For all I know you or any other posters in this thread except for a few that I do know for sure, don't own an H2, so that's a moot point to begin with.

You saw f'ing idiot comments because certain people were more concerned with winning an argument and saying things like "you own a Hummer, why are you worried about gas prices" or "you are discussing gas prices in a Hummer forum" and they themselves called others "idiot." Turnabout is fair play.

Arguing without any facts or knowledge is as deserving of the "f'ing idiot" monicker as anything else I can think of. Besides, you have not been around here long enough to develop an opinion on how one conducts themselves in this forum. Until you understand the mores of the forum sit back and try to "catch" some of what's going on. IE - turnabout is fair play. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>..

thanks for making me laugh again. keep them coming. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I wsan't aware of the time restriction for opinions on members. Should I wait another couple of years to put an opinion out there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No restriction on opinion, just trying to help you out on some of the whys and hows. You can have your opinion, it's just that it won't have any validity. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
From a gentlemanly standpoint visual confirmation is fine. No need to report tactile confirmation. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I will not, repeat, will not, report tactile confirmation if and when it does or has happened.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
But take a look at her pics. OMG
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean
ps - Jen, I love you. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[H2Finally]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>DING!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif ("We have a winner!!! kindda ding http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif)

[H2Finally]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ted:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2Finally:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ted:
If you don’t like the price of gas don’t buy it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE> No matter what you drive, you need gas, no? If you are not "forced" to buy gas, to work, to live -- and have another secret (non gas) source of power for your daily driver, do share http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif If not, then..... ding, your fries are done! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not the one pissing and moaning about gas prices, and Exxon's profits. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No, you're not. Just like I'm not the one to take it up the ass and say "YESSA! MO'SAH!!" http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif ..... ding, your fries are done!

[TootsSUT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
From a gentlemanly standpoint visual confirmation is fine. No need to report tactile confirmation. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I will not, repeat, will not, report tactile confirmation if and when it does or has happened.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
But take a look at her pics. OMG
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean
ps - Jen, I love you. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Once again, talking about me like I'm not here!!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

No tactile confirmation happening here. You can bet your ass on it! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

You can tell I'm in a really good mood right now, can't ya Bond? I think my girlfriend might have a picture of you in the pictures she took, atleast I hope so. I'm having her get right on it!! Didn't think you'd get away that easily, did ya??? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:

FreeorDie,

You are wasting your time here. It's like having a college professor lecturing quantum physics to a kindergarten class. Discretion is the better part of valor. You should smile, surrender, and move on.
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Probably good advice. . .and though I rarely smile and never surrender, I don't mind movin' on when I'm wasting my time. But I haven't gotten to that point yet (close maybe). There's always the chance that things like fact and truth can penetrate. At least, one can hope. . .

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
My opinion is that I feel it is wrong for them to be making that much of a profit when there is really no other alternative to fuel. I feel that there should be government restictions due to the fact there are no alternatives. If it were another company like Walmart making that much, then so be it. There are tons of other places to buy food and other household items. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Slgcmng. . . When you say restrictions, I'm not sure you understand the implications. Were you an adult during the price controls imposed during the Nixon administration? Do you understand what happens when prices are "restricted?" Here's how it works:

When supply goes down or demand goes up, the price increases. This does a couple of things, one being to reduce demand. Another of the benefits of the increased price is that it provides motivation to increase supply. When supply increases and or demand decreases, the price gets back to a stable, balanced point.

If prices are restricted, there is no motivation to increase supply and there is no incentive to decrease demand. That means that supply cannot match demand and although you get a stable price, supply dwindles. That means that you can buy the gas cheap -- if you are lucky enough to find it. And since other countries won't have the restrictions and will be willing to pay the market price, they will get the oil and gas. In other words, any restrictions will eventually result in no gas at all.

And by the way, if you take a look, you'll find that Exxon's profit ratio -- even at $10 billion -- is not significantly above that of any other industry and during most quarters, it's about the same.

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
First it doesn't address the price at the pump at all and secondly, I think you must be above your pay grade here. "wins the argument." Is that what you are trying to do? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

What are you trying to say with this "wins the argument" stuff? You are presenting a point of view that doesn't comport with fact or reality. There's no argument here -- I'm simply trying to help you see a different point of view. Or is that your way of simply trying to silence people with whom you disagree? Rather than do that, why don't you pay attention and learn something.

And when you say that everything previously written doesn't address the price at the pump, you are not making any sense. Do you know what goes into the price at the pump? Everything involved in recovering, refining and distributing gasoline down to and including the salaries of those work at the gas station. And I'm not sure if it was you or someone else who mentioned it, but gas stations do indeed have to price gas based on the next tanker load, not the one just delivered. If a tanker load costs $10K and is priced at the pump so that all overhead is paid with $10K left over to buy the next load and it costs $11K, the station owner is going to be in the hole.

The price here in New Hampshire is down to around $2.30 per gallon from over $3.00. . .and that's roughly where it was before the storm disrupted everything. That proves that market pricing works. And the oil companies will undoubtedly try to use the profit to increase supply. But it doesn't happen in one calendar quarter. And it doesn't happen when government regulations and leaf-licker lawsuits prevent oil companies from drilling new wells, building new refineries, and improving the distribution process.

[PARAGON]

I can't believe you are still here trying to peddle supply/demand. I certainly don't agree with any restrictions or stupid excise taxes or any of the democratic junk that has been proposed. All I am in favor of is simple anti-trust investigations just like what took place with Microsoft and the multitudes of other industries in the past that engaged in price fixing.

I have spoon fed all of this information to you for you to simply go and try to dispute so that you could read and understand it all for yourselves. Exxon/Mobil, Chevron/Texaco, Dutch Shell, all have admitted to price fixing in the United States. Not openly admitted it but have admitted it in one form or the other.

Back a few years ago when gas was so cheap and OPEC decided to lessen output to raise the price per barrel, US refineries did the same thing. They lessened output BUT, and most importantly HELD shipments to artificially affect the supply at the retail level. This was brought out through a Congressional Investigation but nothing was ever done about it. To this day since, they have become much more aggressive with their pricing schemes and the BS about supply and our lack of additional refineries is just that, BS. We currently have more than enough production ability even operating at less than 100%.

The other side of this is the energy futures market and why it's been so great in the past 3 or 4 years. This manipulation of the supply by the oil companies keeps futures trading high and keeps margins high. Not a conspiracy but a side result of who do you think is trading in the futures?

If you can't get it from here, there's nothing much else I can say. If all you can do is keep saying it's supply and demand and copy what the oil companies' rhetoric is without offering any arguments against the points brought up or any other useful information, why continue making a fool of yourself. If you think I am wrong or inaccurate, fine. Look it up and then wait and see.

But first explain why retail fuel prices jumped 150% in less than 4 years when demand did not and supply was not effected over that time. And explain why in the past week retail gas prices fell 20% to levels not seen since April of this year, but alas diesel fuel has not.

When you supply/demand scholars can explain the immediate fluctuations and the few above points, you might then have a handle on why the US Congress, economists, business owners and multitudes of others are questioning why the retail fuel market is such that it is.

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:


thanks for making me laugh again. keep them coming. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I wsan't aware of the time restriction for opinions on members. Should I wait another couple of years to put an opinion out there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No restriction on opinion, just trying to help you out on some of the whys and hows. You can have your opinion, it's just that it won't have any validity. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me get this staight. . .according to you, the validity of a person's opinions is predicated not on the correctness or verifiability of the facts involved, but on the length of time they've been posting in the Hummer Forum??????

Fascinating. . .

[DennisAJC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

JEEEZUS!!!!

SHUT THE FAWK UP ALREADY!!!

GET OVER IT! YOUR 3 POSTS IN A ROW JUST MAKES YOU LOOK DESPERATE AND MORE STUPID.

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DennisAJC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

JEEEZUS!!!!

SHUT THE FAWK UP ALREADY!!!

GET OVER IT! YOUR 3 POSTS IN A ROW JUST MAKES YOU LOOK DESPERATE AND MORE STUPID. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me tell you what F'wad, you can kiss my ass after you pull your head out of Paragon's lap.

You don't like it? Tough sh*t.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:


thanks for making me laugh again. keep them coming. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I wsan't aware of the time restriction for opinions on members. Should I wait another couple of years to put an opinion out there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No restriction on opinion, just trying to help you out on some of the whys and hows. You can have your opinion, it's just that it won't have any validity. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me get this staight. . .according to you, the validity of a person's opinions is predicated not on the correctness or verifiability of the facts involved, but on the length of time they've been posting in the Hummer Forum??????

Fascinating. . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh, I can quote correct and verifiable facts but it doesn't mean that they offer any validity to and discussion being had. Plenty of stupid MFs like you have shown up here pretending to know more than their 11 year old brother but until you have proven yourself, just as in life, anything you say doesn't mean squat.

I have over 6,000 posts. Go though my 6,000 posts and find where I have given out false information or mispoke about something except when in jest or the occasional mistake. I, personally, don't make it a habit of discussing in a public forum something that is well beyond my comprehension, as you seem to relish in doing. You seem to obviously do it often and never "give up" on looking so damn stupid either. Pig-headedness like that won't get you very far in this forum.

You can discuss your points but when you start with semantics and the other BS and are obviously trying to talk about something you know very little about, you are going to get the treatment here. Just the nature of this forum. You should get used to it if you plan on hanging around.

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:


thanks for making me laugh again. keep them coming. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I wsan't aware of the time restriction for opinions on members. Should I wait another couple of years to put an opinion out there? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No restriction on opinion, just trying to help you out on some of the whys and hows. You can have your opinion, it's just that it won't have any validity. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me get this staight. . .according to you, the validity of a person's opinions is predicated not on the correctness or verifiability of the facts involved, but on the length of time they've been posting in the Hummer Forum??????

Fascinating. . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh, I can quote correct and verifiable facts but it doesn't mean that they offer any validity to and discussion being had. Plenty of stupid MFs like you have shown up here pretending to know more than their 11 year old brother but until you have proven yourself, just as in life, anything you say doesn't mean squat.

I have over 6,000 posts. Go though my 6,000 posts and find where I have given out false information or mispoke about something except when in jest or the occasional mistake. I, personally, don't make it a habit of discussing in a public forum something that is well beyond my comprehension, as you seem to relish in doing. You seem to obviously do it often and never "give up" on looking so damn stupid either. Pig-headedness like that won't get you very far in this forum.

You can discuss your points but when you start with semantics and the other BS and are obviously trying to talk about something you know very little about, you are going to get the treatment here. Just the nature of this forum. You should get used to it if you plan on hanging around. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Let me square you away real quick so there's no confusion. I'll hang around as long as I want to. I'll post what I want to. The fact that you and you're little sycophantic buddy have been posting for nearly 4 years and have 6K posts plus makes no difference to me at all. That and $.75 will get you a cup of coffee. From what I've seen, you post some good stuff and, at least in this thread, you post some nonsense. The other thing I've noticed is that you and some others like to try to bully newcomers and others with whom you have the slightest disagreement.

Well, others may take it and move on as Bondage suggested, and that's fine, but you give me sh*t and you'll get it right back.

Let me tell you, snot nose, you want to discuss topics? Fine. You want to try to bully or intimidate me based on the fact that you apparently have nothing else to do but post in this forum, and you'll get back exactly what you give and more.

Just the nature of FreeorDie2. You should get used to it since I will be hanging around.

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
Let me tell you what F'wad, you can kiss my ass after you pull your head out of Paragon's lap.

You don't like it? Tough sh*t. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Another wannabe e-tough guy.

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all. . .

Now the troops I led over a period of 25 years, they were real tough guys. . .and I'm not some pussy who is going to put up with a bunch of e-crap from anyone. I don't have to put up with that kind of stuff when people are standing in front of me. . .and there's no one on this forum that would try it, not only with me, but with anyone, if they ave an ounce of common sense.

[DennisAJC]

SIGH http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif......

You had such a bright future here.

Oh well. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
Let me tell you what F'wad, you can kiss my ass after you pull your head out of Paragon's lap.

You don't like it? Tough sh*t. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Another wannabe e-tough guy.

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not at all. . .

Now the troops I led over a period of 25 years, they were real tough guys. . .and I'm not some pussy who is going to put up with a bunch of e-crap from anyone. I don't have to put up with that kind of stuff when people are standing in front of me. . .and there's no one on this forum that would try it, not only with me, but with anyone, if they ave an ounce of common sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You're ghey, aren't you.

[Klaus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
Now the troops I led over a period of 25 years, they were real tough guys. . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

...Medically retired after being fragged by his own troops...

Niedermeyer?

[DennisAJC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
Now the troops I led over a period of 25 years, they were real tough guys. . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For a guy who blew real tough guys over a period of 25 years, you're quite the thin skinned Nancy over some light ribbing on the internet. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Klaus:
Niedermeyer? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Dead! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[H2Finally]

FreeorDie2.. DING! FRIES ARE DONE!

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
Not at all. . .

Now the troops I led over a period of 25 years, they were real tough guys. . .and I'm not some pussy who is going to put up with a bunch of e-crap from anyone. I don't have to put up with that kind of stuff when people are standing in front of me. . .and there's no one on this forum that would try it, not only with me, but with anyone, if they ave an ounce of common sense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Adapt or become extinct. This is what we like to call "e-wrasslin'". So either stow the ******* attitude, relax & have fun or hit the e-bricks.

[H2Finally]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
The other thing I've noticed is that you and some others like to try to bully newcomers and others with whom you have the slightest disagreement. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sometimes, when the noob just makes such fun targets (Jennifer http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif).

Mostly though, the veterans here cannot and will not stand:

<UL TYPE=SQUARE> <LI> showoffs (most of us drive Hummers, most of us are doing okay, no need to beat your chest?)

<LI> boasters ("lookie, I've been offroading 25 years, I'm an off-road expert on the Hummer I've owned for 3 weeks" http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif)

<LI> Delicate-little-flowers ("You're mean! I'm never coming back to this stinkin' forum!!" -- and yet, from time to time you see their handle names appearing as lurkers.. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_redface.gif)

and worst of all

<LI> the fool who insisted his opinions are facts without substantiating 'em. [/list]

Personally, I prefer to recognize these vets' behaviors as an honest kind of respectin' -- akin to "Don't BS when you aren't obviously (or subtly) joking. We ain't stoopid, stupid http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif"-kindda-attitude.

[TootsSUT]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:

LOL, owning this tard will be fun, I hope he stays for a while. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Aren't you supposed to be the moderator or owner of this forum? Is it for H2 owners and those intereted in H2s or is it your private little playground for you and a select few to pretend you're tough or important or smart or whatever?

Own? You better get a grip. . .The only thing you could do would be to ban me from the forum -- other than that, all you can do is sit and make stupid comments.

[DennisAJC]

Shut it turd. Suckin up to Alec is fruitless. He's our resident Limey. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We don't ban weaklings so you're safe to bytch and whine like the vagina you are.

25 years leading what? Real men??? Fag. I guess next you'll tell us is that you did Potato Salad. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[h2co-pilot]

I might ban him.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

FreeorDie2, (was there an original?)

Your enragement is unambiguous.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DRTYFN:

Adapt or become extinct. This is what we like to call "e-wrasslin'". So either stow the ******* attitude, relax & have fun or hit the e-bricks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Adapt? Define your terms. This whole thing started because I disagreed with the vast oil company conspiracy theory. If adapt means cowtowing to a select few, then forget it. If it means a poster can call me an F'ing idiot for posting my opinion, and I have to say, "Yes Sir, may I have another, Sir," then forget it.

You call me an F'ing idiot, expect to be told to kiss my ass. You want to argue about the right or wrong of something, or how to do this or that, or whether to chrome or not to chrome, that's great and I'm happy to occassionaly particapate. I wasn't looking for trouble, just pointing out basic economics. I'm still not looking for trouble, but I won't run away from it either.

And by the way, if you call this "e-wrasslin'", then you should understand that hitting back isn't an ******* attitude. . .it's self defense.

[slgcmg]

You guys are too funny. If I met any of you and you said those things to my face you would be in serious trouble because I know illegal ninja moves that are from the government. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DennisAJC:
Shut it turd. Suckin up to Alec is fruitless. He's our resident Limey. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We don't ban weaklings so you're safe to bytch and whine like the vagina you are.

25 years leading what? Real men??? Fag. I guess next you'll tell us is that you did Potato Salad. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So. . .is this the post of a "true" tough guy?

[h2co-pilot]

http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[DennisAJC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DennisAJC:
Shut it turd. Suckin up to Alec is fruitless. He's our resident Limey. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We don't ban weaklings so you're safe to bytch and whine like the vagina you are.

25 years leading what? Real men??? Fag. I guess next you'll tell us is that you did Potato Salad. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So. . .is this the post of a "true" tough guy? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you come to Moab, I bet I can make you pee your pants. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
You guys are too funny. If I met any of you and you said those things to my face you would be in serious trouble because I know illegal ninja moves that are from the government. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You would never meet any of us. We only exist on the e-ternet.

I just read that there is now a gas crisis. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[Walter_Cronkite]

****THIS JUST IN****

Freeordie2 looks like a complete ass in the upcoming segment of "Stupid people who don't know when to shut up."

We now return you to the scheduled program....


.

[slgcmg]

I just read that there is now a gas crisis. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif[/QUOTE]

Damnit http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

Gas was just lowered to around $2.01 in Ft. Worth.

[Jim_Cantore]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Walter_Cronkite:
****THIS JUST IN****

Freeordie2 looks like a complete ass in the upcoming segment of "Stupid people who don't know when to shut up."

We now return you to the scheduled program....


. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

****This just in from NOAA****

Hurricane Beta is expected head up toward New Hampshire and go straight up his ass.

[H2Finally]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Exxon, oily friends & gasy partners:
WE WILL MAKE YOU PAY THRU YOUR NOSES CAUSE YOU HAVE NO CHOICE BUT TO BUY OUR GAS. WE WANT $9+BILLION/QUARTER PROFIT EACH! </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
and I have to say, "Yes Sir, may I have another, Sir" </div></BLOCKQUOTE> http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
Adapt? Define your terms. This whole thing started because I disagreed with the vast oil company conspiracy theory. If adapt means cowtowing to a select few, then forget it. If it means a poster can call me an F'ing idiot for posting my opinion, and I have to say, "Yes Sir, may I have another, Sir," then forget it.
You call me an F'ing idiot, expect to be told to kiss my ass. You want to argue about the right or wrong of something, or how to do this or that, or whether to chrome or not to chrome, that's great and I'm happy to occassionaly particapate. I wasn't looking for trouble, just pointing out basic economics. I'm still not looking for trouble, but I won't run away from it either.

And by the way, if you call this "e-wrasslin'", then you should understand that hitting back isn't an ******* attitude. . .it's self defense. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No where did I say anything about cow-towing. I was merely suggesting that you not throw such a hissy fit when attempting to state your opinion. You sounded like a hyper-ventilating little bitch and it wasn't becoming of someone that potentially stands up to urinate. But if you're a LIEBERAL and voted for Kerry then it's understandable.

[DRTYFN]

Oh yeah...
HOW DO YOU FEEL, PRIVATE?!!!!
BUTF*CKED, SIR!!!!

[HeimenHummer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DennisAJC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DennisAJC:
Shut it turd. Suckin up to Alec is fruitless. He's our resident Limey. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

We don't ban weaklings so you're safe to bytch and whine like the vagina you are.

25 years leading what? Real men??? Fag. I guess next you'll tell us is that you did Potato Salad. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So. . .is this the post of a "true" tough guy? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you come to Moab, I bet I can make you pee your pants. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


I have no doubt from watching the videos, rumors, and pictures your group is fealess and borderline retarded. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

That would be a true test of tough and I don't think FreeorCry will ever step up to that kind of challenge. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

[DennisAJC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HammerH2:
I have no doubt from watching the videos, rumors, and pictures your group is fealess and borderline retarded. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And we're also damn goodlooking people. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I would love to play follow the leader with Liveordie. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"ELP! I'M BOBBING"

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DennisAJC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HammerH2:
I have no doubt from watching the videos, rumors, and pictures your group is fealess and borderline retarded. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And we're also damn goodlooking people. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

I would love to play follow the leader with Liveordie. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

"ELP! I'M BOBBING" </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Damn, I love this clip!!!http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Alp.... ahm bobbing... (http://customers.holdenmss.com/webfiles/images/help.wav)

[HUMMERDOGG]

Paragon-

To address a few of your commments...

The price at the pump "is" raised due to the fear of future "production" disruption "because" future production disruption affects futures pricing which ultimately affects retail pump prices. Keep in mind, pricing at the pump originated on the Nymex where heating oil and unleaded gas futures trade. Refineries contract to buy their crude supplies with their purchase price tied to either the daily Nymex settle plus a fixed basis or a daily fixed price basis cash market, in turn, retail gas stations contract out to either petroleum distributors or directly with refineries and this price is tied to the current spot rack price.

World supply/demand balances "have" tightened significantly in the past four years due to the unbelieveable economic growth in China and India in 03/04.

OPEC is no longer a factor when discussing the ability to manipulate pricing. We ran from $41 to $72 this year. The last $15 of that move was driven purely off of trading technicals which continued to give these program and hedge fund traders "BUY" signals. It wasn't driven off of OPEC, supply/demand balances, the oil majors, etc...

Diesel prices at the pump have come off where I'm at however there continues to be a 60 cent/gallon spread at the pump between diesel and unleaded. However, there is also a 22 cent/gallon spread between heating oil and unleaded gas futures. The balance of that pricing is due to cash diesel basis prices, issues with transportation logistics, continued downed refineries, current distillate storage levels, and maybe a little "major" price gouging.

And to try to correlate price action and demand, and argue that price has no business increasing 100% since demand hasn't increased by 100% is a difficult correlation for me to follow. Price always overshoots to both the upside or the downside because it's never readily apparent when supply/demand fundamentals have fallen back in-line. Plus, in the interim there are so many other factors other than global and local supply/demand balances that traders look at when trading...

Ultimately, I agree with your assessment that there is some market manipulation being done by the majors which affects pricing, however, I can't agree with you that this is the sole reason for the price action we have seen this year. The various factors I have mentioned in previous posts do play an influence on price.

However, I am a believer in free markets and capitalism and do not believe it is wise to try and cap the majors or have them fix their pricing. Immediate relief would be offset by long term grief...

[HUMMERDOGG]

Futures Pricing for Crude Oil (Weekly)

http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=cl&o=&a...550&d=HIGH&b=bar&st= (http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=cl&amp;o=&amp;a=W&amp;z=800x550&amp;d=HIGH&amp;b=bar&amp;st=)

Futures Pricing for Crude Oil (Monthly)

http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=cl&o=&a...550&d=HIGH&b=bar&st= (http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=cl&amp;o=&amp;a=M&amp;z=800x550&amp;d=HIGH&amp;b=bar&amp;st=)

Futures Pricing for Unleaded Gas (Weekly)

http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=HU&o=&a...550&d=HIGH&b=bar&st= (http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=HU&amp;o=&amp;a=W&amp;z=800x550&amp;d=HIGH&amp;b=bar&amp;st=)

Futures Pricing for Unleaded Gas (Monthly)

http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=HU&o=&a...550&d=HIGH&b=bar&st= (http://www.futuresource.com/charts/charts.jsp?s=HU&amp;o=&amp;a=M&amp;z=800x550&amp;d=HIGH&amp;b=bar&amp;st=)

This explains why the price at the pump has risen so much. Now has crude oil and unleaded gas futures pricing continued to increase due to market manipulation by the majors? I agree with Paragon, that they might have "something" to do with it but I'm of the opinion that there is more to it than just that.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERDOGG:
Paragon-

To address a few of your commments...

The price at the pump "is" raised due to the fear of future "production" disruption "because" future production disruption affects futures pricing which ultimately affects retail pump prices. Keep in mind, pricing at the pump originated on the Nymex where heating oil and unleaded gas futures trade. Refineries contract to buy their crude supplies with their purchase price tied to either the daily Nymex settle plus a fixed basis or a daily fixed price basis cash market, in turn, retail gas stations contract out to either petroleum distributors or directly with refineries and this price is tied to the current spot rack price.

World supply/demand balances "have" tightened significantly in the past four years due to the unbelieveable economic growth in China and India in 03/04.

OPEC is no longer a factor when discussing the ability to manipulate pricing. We ran from $41 to $72 this year. The last $15 of that move was driven purely off of trading technicals which continued to give these program and hedge fund traders "BUY" signals. It wasn't driven off of OPEC, supply/demand balances, the oil majors, etc...

Diesel prices at the pump have come off where I'm at however there continues to be a 60 cent/gallon spread at the pump between diesel and unleaded. However, there is also a 22 cent/gallon spread between heating oil and unleaded gas futures. The balance of that pricing is due to cash diesel basis prices, issues with transportation logistics, continued downed refineries, current distillate storage levels, and maybe a little "major" price gouging.

And to try to correlate price action and demand, and argue that price has no business increasing 100% since demand hasn't increased by 100% is a difficult correlation for me to follow. Price always overshoots to both the upside or the downside because it's never readily apparent when supply/demand fundamentals have fallen back in-line. Plus, in the interim there are so many other factors other than global and local supply/demand balances that traders look at when trading...

Ultimately, I agree with your assessment that there is some market manipulation being done by the majors which affects pricing, however, I can't agree with you that this is the sole reason for the price action we have seen this year. The various factors I have mentioned in previous posts do play an influence on price.

However, I am a believer in free markets and capitalism and do not believe it is wise to try and cap the majors or have them fix their pricing. Immediate relief would be offset by long term grief... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>We're on the exact same page. I am not obtuse enough to think that retail pricing is only set by some sort of conspiracy. While everything I've posted here is fact, I could help but play with the village idiot attempting to discuss something over his head.

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ckhagman:
]

I would like to know what Exxon/Mobils ROI was on this 9.9 billion. i.e. if last years was 2% and this years was 2% then who really cares. But if this hear was significantly higher like 6% or more than it is a problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Why is it a problem? Who are you, or who is anybody, to say how much profit a company should make? How much money do you make? How much of a pay raise did you get this year? Last year? Does anyone but your employer have a right to say if it's too much or too little?

How much money did you risk over the last X years to make sure gas gets to market? I'll bet that if you were heavily invested in XOM, you'd be singin' a different damn song. . . </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I believe you missed my point entirely. I was merely saying, if they made the same % profit then them making 9.9billion is no big deal. I do not complain about the petroleum industry.

[Hummertech]

OK, this thread is too damn long, so let's sum it up.
It's OK for an oil company to make billions of dollars because on a percentage basis, it's equal with other companies and should be allowed to make a fair profit off their large investments.
The oil industry is a screwed up industry with a lot of B.S. controlling prices that are not directly related to supply and demand.
There I think we covered both sides.
Oil companies are allowed to make large profits, and oil companies suck.
Now lets MOVE ON PEOPLE.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
OK, this thread is too damn long, so let's sum it up.
It's OK for an oil company to make billions of dollars because on a percentage basis, it's equal with other companies and should be allowed to make a fair profit off their large investments.
The oil industry is a screwed up industry with a lot of B.S. controlling prices that are not directly related to supply and demand.
There I think we covered both sides.
Oil companies are allowed to make large profits, and oil companies suck.
Now lets MOVE ON PEOPLE. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Shut up and go fix a Hummer. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif And yes you pretty much summed it up.

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CslRkH2:
Collusion...I know it will never be investigated or proven. But I'm surprised that you find it such a stretch. And No, in the 70s there actually were fuel shortages. Thus the supply side of the equation caused prices to increase. In the past couple months supply and demand has been constant (other than a few specific areas). From the financial stmts there doesn't seem to be any reason for these latest price spikes other than pure greed. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

There was never a fuel shortage in the 70's. If you call all tanks at an oil refiner fuel of refined gas a shortage than that is really interesting.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ckhagman:
I do not complain about the petroleum industry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You won't bite the hand that feeds you? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERDOGG:


The thing is, we have the technology nowadays to help alleviate alot of this but it is just taking time to get production from this new technology brought online. Coal Gasification Technology for Natural Gas, Canadian Tar Sands for Crude Oil, LNG imports for Natural Gas, etc...

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

We can use Coal Gasification to make diesel fuel also.

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERDOGG:
Price is merely a reflection of supply/demand balances regardless what anyone says. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Dogg, respectfully this is simply not true. When the price at the pump can be raised due to the fear of future "production" disruption, this is not being controlled by supply/demand.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is Exxon/Mobile or any oil company that ones raising the prices at the individual stations. Do you really think BP were the ones that raised prices to $6.00 a gallon. Just because it has a major oil sign out front it doesn't mean that that major oil sets the price.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ckhagman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERDOGG:
Price is merely a reflection of supply/demand balances regardless what anyone says. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Dogg, respectfully this is simply not true. When the price at the pump can be raised due to the fear of future "production" disruption, this is not being controlled by supply/demand.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is Exxon/Mobile or any oil company that ones raising the prices at the individual stations. Do you really think BP were the ones that raised prices to $6.00 a gallon. Just because it has a major oil sign out front it doesn't mean that that major oil sets the price. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Awww, damn. We aren't going to continue this are we?

Look it up, the major oil companies have tons of company owned stores whose prices are set by the company. Competing stores generally fall in line to reap the same profits.

It really is a simple concept. Why else do you think an area's fuel prices can increase by $0.10 in a days time.

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
First it doesn't address the price at the pump at all and secondly, I think you must be above your pay grade here. "wins the argument." Is that what you are trying to do? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And when you say that everything previously written doesn't address the price at the pump, you are not making any sense. Do you know what goes into the price at the pump? Everything involved in recovering, refining and distributing gasoline down to and including the salaries of those work at the gas station. And I'm not sure if it was you or someone else who mentioned it, but gas stations do indeed have to price gas based on the next tanker load, not the one just delivered. If a tanker load costs $10K and is priced at the pump so that all overhead is paid with $10K left over to buy the next load and it costs $11K, the station owner is going to be in the hole.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was me. And damn if you are not right on with that. I guess Paragon didn't read that post.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ckhagman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
First it doesn't address the price at the pump at all and secondly, I think you must be above your pay grade here. "wins the argument." Is that what you are trying to do? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And when you say that everything previously written doesn't address the price at the pump, you are not making any sense. Do you know what goes into the price at the pump? Everything involved in recovering, refining and distributing gasoline down to and including the salaries of those work at the gas station. And I'm not sure if it was you or someone else who mentioned it, but gas stations do indeed have to price gas based on the next tanker load, not the one just delivered. If a tanker load costs $10K and is priced at the pump so that all overhead is paid with $10K left over to buy the next load and it costs $11K, the station owner is going to be in the hole.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was me. And damn if you are not right on with that. I guess Paragon didn't read that post. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You have to be f'ing kiddng me. You are going to continue with this line of stupid crap. You seriously think that the price paid at the pump is simply controled by the wholesale price paid for what is in the storage tank? WAKE UP!!!!

[Hummertech]

Don't worry Paragon, everyone takes what he says with a grain of salt, simply because he lives in a state that has voted Democratic in the last 2 Elections.

[Hummertech]

After all, if we're going to continue this damn thread any longer, let's at least change the subject and start arguing about something else.

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ckhagman:
I do not complain about the petroleum industry. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You won't bite the hand that feeds you? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutely 100% correct.

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ckhagman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
First it doesn't address the price at the pump at all and secondly, I think you must be above your pay grade here. "wins the argument." Is that what you are trying to do? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

And when you say that everything previously written doesn't address the price at the pump, you are not making any sense. Do you know what goes into the price at the pump? Everything involved in recovering, refining and distributing gasoline down to and including the salaries of those work at the gas station. And I'm not sure if it was you or someone else who mentioned it, but gas stations do indeed have to price gas based on the next tanker load, not the one just delivered. If a tanker load costs $10K and is priced at the pump so that all overhead is paid with $10K left over to buy the next load and it costs $11K, the station owner is going to be in the hole.

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It was me. And damn if you are not right on with that. I guess Paragon didn't read that post. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You have to be f'ing kiddng me. You are going to continue with this line of stupid crap. You seriously think that the price paid at the pump is simply controled by the wholesale price paid for what is in the storage tank? WAKE UP!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No not entirely but it has a lot to do with it.

And this topic is too long and I was just catching up since I didn't turn my computer on the whole weekend.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
Don't worry Paragon, everyone takes what he says with a grain of salt, simply because he lives in a state that has voted Democratic in the last 2 Elections. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Actually, I think he owns a gas station in some po-dunk town in a far-away corner who doesn't even have self-pay pumps outside. That's about the only explanation that could be had for this ignorant line of thinking.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
After all, if we're going to continue this damn thread any longer, let's at least change the subject and start arguing about something else. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, pick something. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[Hummertech]

Or let's change the subject to football, and talk about how Green Bay is over, done with.
No more.
Bye Bye.
No playoffs for Farve this year. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Actually, I think he owns a gas station in some po-dunk town in a far-away corner who doesn't even have self-pay pumps outside. That's about the only explanation that could be had for this ignorant line of thinking. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I have heard it from industry insiders. And as much as I would like to own a gas station I do not. Plus competition is too high. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
Or let's change the subject to football, and talk about how Green Bay is over, done with.
No more.
Bye Bye.
No playoffs for Farve this year. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Now...... well...... Sumbitch. That's hitting a little close to home. His ranch is about 45 miles from mine. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ckhagman]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
Or let's change the subject to football, and talk about how Green Bay is over, done with.
No more.
Bye Bye.
No playoffs for Farve this year. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

FAV-RE.

No lets talk about the cough cough Eagles and the Redskins. It is days like yesterday that make me really happy that hockey is back.

[Hummertech]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
Or let's change the subject to football, and talk about how Green Bay is over, done with.
No more.
Bye Bye.
No playoffs for Farve this year. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Now...... well...... Sumbitch. That's hitting a little close to home. His ranch is about 45 miles from mine. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I grew up close to Chicago, and being a Bears fan, it is impossible to feel anything but hatred toward the Green Bay Packers. Especially after the Charles Martin incident in the 80's. Farve is a very good QB, and probably a good guy too. It's a shame he had to end up on that team.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
After all, if we're going to continue this damn thread any longer, let's at least change the subject and start arguing about something else. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, pick something. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Okay. Real men shoot steel guns - not tupperware crap. Oh. We did that. As you were.....
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean

[Klaus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
Or let's change the subject to football </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_RED">ROLL TIDE!!!! 8-0!!!</span>

http://www.rolltide.com/images/7733.jpg

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ckhagman:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Actually, I think he owns a gas station in some po-dunk town in a far-away corner who doesn't even have self-pay pumps outside. That's about the only explanation that could be had for this ignorant line of thinking. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I have heard it from industry insiders. And as much as I would like to own a gas station I do not. Plus competition is too high. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I owned one... Hated it. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Klaus:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
Or let's change the subject to football </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<span class="ev_code_RED">ROLL TIDE!!!! 8-0!!!</span>

http://www.rolltide.com/images/7733.jpg </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Not after next week. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
After all, if we're going to continue this damn thread any longer, let's at least change the subject and start arguing about something else. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, pick something. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay. Real men shoot steel guns - not tupperware crap. Oh. We did that. As you were.....
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Glocks are great guns. I've owned a few different handguns, including Sig Sauers and Berrettas. While I loved my Sig I also really enjoy my Glock. When they first came on the market I was very skeptical of the "plastic gun", and never thought I'd buy one.

[PARAGON]

Meh, 1st generation G22 owner.

[Klaus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Not after next week. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You're right... <span class="ev_code_RED">9-0!</span> http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
meh, my Gamo Airgun owns you all http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not quite. HIYAAA!!! (http://www.moviewavs.com/0078546128/WAVS/Movies/Team_America_World_Police/youloose.wav)

[CO Hummer]

The G23 is my overall favorite gun. But I really like my little PM9 too.

Now what's this thread about?

[slgcmg]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CO Hummer:

Now what's this thread about? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guns, chicks, gas, money, and F'in idiots http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[DennisAJC]

This thread still running? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[H2Finally]

Are you still padding?? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ROX]

Locked? Not anymore. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ROX]

I noticed I couldn't reply in the Locked Thread. Maybe they're following you around messin with ya. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
The mod is playing http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I really hope this mod is not someone I know who has lied to my face becuase it will make me sad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>x2

[ROX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
The mod is playing http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

I really hope this mod is not someone I know who has lied to my face becuase it will make me sad. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
ME TOO! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_mad.gif Dennis!

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by sfox:
couldn't really care less who it is, it'd just be nice if we knew who was editing this stuff... http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_rolleyes.gif

S </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

BUT

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
lied to my face </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

IS A PROBLEM

[PARAGON]

POST NUMBER 6666 IS FOR THE SECRET MOD

[PARAGON]

Somebody wants to be found out now after this little episode.

[ROX]

It's obviously someone who can't resist messing around. A real clown, who's gonna be....

[H3OwnerDiz]

My 2cents worth of rookie suspicions are:

1. Jim Cantore (AE) recently received the power.
2. The Canuck lied to your face in Moab.

That is all.

[La.Swamp Lobster]

I hate to tell you guys, but the Houston Plant never stopped pumping...they said it did, but I know for a fact that it never did...this was just another ploye to justify their price increase.
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ckhagman:
Lets not forget to add that the Exxon/Mobil plant to Houston was shut down for a week or 2. I was talking with some oil companies 2 weeks ago they might not get 100% allocations but rather 60%. Can you imagine going to get your oil changed and the guy tells you sorry, where out of your oil.

Our local gas company has even sent out letters to large (Commercial) accounts tell them they can not guarentee that their gas wont be shut off due to insufficent supply. So if you think oil is bad gas is much worse. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[PARAGON]

Oops.... Alec, read the PM. I just figured out how to see the cache and who made the administration changes and I am not sure he ever actually said it WASN'T him.

[H3OwnerDiz]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
BTW I did not read a single thing about modding while we were all in Moab! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> Yep, no sign of modding while you were all away...

[H2Finally]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Oops.... Alec, read the PM. I just figured out how to see the cache and who made the administration changes and I am not sure he ever actually said it WASN'T him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, WHO? WHO? WHO??!

[Hummertech]

Well this thread has it all. Money, politics, Hummers, football, sarcasm. I think the only thing missing is women.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
Well this thread has it all. Money, politics, Hummers, football, sarcasm. I think the only thing missing is women. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>JENNIFER?????? Here's your cue! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[ROX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Oops.... Alec, read the PM. I just figured out how to see the cache and who made the administration changes and I am not sure he ever actually said it WASN'T him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So does moderating include taking the pics out of a post? Just curious. I was reading on the H1 site and saw where Shaggy had posted a pic of his truck, but the pic is gone.
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/1006067735/m/8706029735

[h2co-pilot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2 Rocks:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Oops.... Alec, read the PM. I just figured out how to see the cache and who made the administration changes and I am not sure he ever actually said it WASN'T him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So does moderating include taking the pics out of a post? Just curious. I was reading on the H1 site and saw where Shaggy had posted a pic of his truck, but the pic is gone.
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/1006067735/m/8706029735 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Any self respecting moderator would take that POS out. That's like the vehicle goatse.

[H3OwnerDiz]

That pic shaggy posted looks like it was a link to the image on Alec's site and may have been deleted from there, not deleted from here. But I still don't know the answer to your question about other images that were uploaded as 'attachments' here.

[h2co-pilot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H3OwnerDiz:
That pic shaggy posted looks like it was a link to the image on Alec's site and may have been deleted from there, not deleted from here. But I still don't know the answer to your question about other images that were uploaded as 'attachments' here. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Hart1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I find that many "hard-core" conservatives become socialists the moment something affects their own wallet. Principaled, sincere, real conservatism requires one to be intellectually honest and accept the bad with the good that comes from a sincerely held and CONSISTENT belief system.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bingo!!

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Oops.... Alec, read the PM. I just figured out how to see the cache and who made the administration changes and I am not sure he ever actually said it WASN'T him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like some exclusionary PM'ing is going on.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif

[Hart1]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If someone wrote it, you must believe it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Using your logic, then, we must not believe anything you write...Hell, you got my vote!


http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">If someone wrote it, you must believe it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Using your logic, then, we must not believe anything you write...Hell, you got my vote!


http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_razz.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[TootsSUT]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
Well this thread has it all. Money, politics, Hummers, football, sarcasm. I think the only thing missing is women. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>JENNIFER?????? Here's your cue! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey tech! Do ya like wang carrying no balls women??? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif I'm your gal!!

(I can't believe I just said that. That's just gross!)

[h2co-pilot]

Oh no, You have bawls too, we just don't like to tawk about it.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gifhttp://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by slgcmng:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CO Hummer:

Now what's this thread about? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Guns, chicks, gas, money, and F'in idiots http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I think we got all the bases covered then http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_cool.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


LMFAO!
http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/36/36_1_20.gif ('http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZNxdm86764US')
Sean
ps - I AM the moderator. I think. Oh, no I'm not. Never mind. What's all this sh1t about a moderator? I've been busy all day - what'd I miss?

[Bondage]

I just went back and read some more.....did the Big Oil Companies come in here and lock up this thread?
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif
Sean

[TootsSUT]

Are you calling me bawlsy?? I'll take that as a compliment! Thanks CP!! http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DRTYFN:

But if you're a LIEBERAL and voted for Kerry then it's understandable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Geez! That's pretty cold blooded. . . I wouldn't even suggest that about Charles F'n Manson. . . http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_eek.gif

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERDOGG:
Paragon-

To address a few of your commments...

The price at the pump "is" raised due to the fear of future "production" disruption "because" future production disruption affects futures pricing which ultimately affects retail pump prices. Keep in mind, pricing at the pump originated on the Nymex where heating oil and unleaded gas futures trade. Refineries contract to buy their crude supplies with their purchase price tied to either the daily Nymex settle plus a fixed basis or a daily fixed price basis cash market, in turn, retail gas stations contract out to either petroleum distributors or directly with refineries and this price is tied to the current spot rack price.

World supply/demand balances "have" tightened significantly in the past four years due to the unbelieveable economic growth in China and India in 03/04.

OPEC is no longer a factor when discussing the ability to manipulate pricing. We ran from $41 to $72 this year. The last $15 of that move was driven purely off of trading technicals which continued to give these program and hedge fund traders "BUY" signals. It wasn't driven off of OPEC, supply/demand balances, the oil majors, etc...

Diesel prices at the pump have come off where I'm at however there continues to be a 60 cent/gallon spread at the pump between diesel and unleaded. However, there is also a 22 cent/gallon spread between heating oil and unleaded gas futures. The balance of that pricing is due to cash diesel basis prices, issues with transportation logistics, continued downed refineries, current distillate storage levels, and maybe a little "major" price gouging.

And to try to correlate price action and demand, and argue that price has no business increasing 100% since demand hasn't increased by 100% is a difficult correlation for me to follow. Price always overshoots to both the upside or the downside because it's never readily apparent when supply/demand fundamentals have fallen back in-line. Plus, in the interim there are so many other factors other than global and local supply/demand balances that traders look at when trading...

Ultimately, I agree with your assessment that there is some market manipulation being done by the majors which affects pricing, however, I can't agree with you that this is the sole reason for the price action we have seen this year. The various factors I have mentioned in previous posts do play an influence on price.

However, I am a believer in free markets and capitalism and do not believe it is wise to try and cap the majors or have them fix their pricing. Immediate relief would be offset by long term grief... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>We're on the exact same page. I am not obtuse enough to think that retail pricing is only set by some sort of conspiracy. While everything I've posted here is fact, I could help but play with the village idiot attempting to discuss something over his head. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So Paragon. . .what did the village idiot say that was in any way different from what you just agreed with? http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_confused.gif

[FreeorDie2]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DRTYFN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
After all, if we're going to continue this damn thread any longer, let's at least change the subject and start arguing about something else. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, pick something. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay. Real men shoot steel guns - not tupperware crap. Oh. We did that. As you were.....
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Glocks are great guns. I've owned a few different handguns, including Sig Sauers and Berrettas. While I loved my Sig I also really enjoy my Glock. When they first came on the market I was very skeptical of the "plastic gun", and never thought I'd buy one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Glocks are indeed great weapons . . .and I love my Beretta 96. But for the fun of shooting, at least for me, there's nothing like a revolver. . .the S&W Model 629 is a great piece of hardware.

[KenP]

I love my Glock 26. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif

[ROX]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by FreeorDie2:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DRTYFN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hummertech:
After all, if we're going to continue this damn thread any longer, let's at least change the subject and start arguing about something else. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Ok, pick something. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_wink.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay. Real men shoot steel guns - not tupperware crap. Oh. We did that. As you were.....
http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_biggrin.gif
Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Glocks are great guns. I've owned a few different handguns, including Sig Sauers and Berrettas. While I loved my Sig I also really enjoy my Glock. When they first came on the market I was very skeptical of the "plastic gun", and never thought I'd buy one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Glocks are indeed great weapons . . .and I love my Beretta 96. But for the fun of shooting, at least for me, there's nothing like a revolver. . .the S&W Model 629 is a great piece of hardware. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I like revolvers too. Ruger Blackhawk .357
My latest is a Springfield 1911 .45, not a revolver, but it's realllllyyyy loud. http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_smile.gif I figure if I ever had to point it at someone trying to steal the bling machine, they'd wet themselves, and go the other way.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DRTYFN:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Oops.... Alec, read the PM. I just figured out how to see the cache and who made the administration changes and I am not sure he ever actually said it WASN'T him. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sounds like some exclusionary PM'ing is going on.http://www.elcova.com/infopop/emoticons/icon_frown.gif </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Wonder why?