PROBLEM WITH COGNITO PITMAN/IDLER KIT

[SummitUp]

A couple of weeks ago I installed the Cognito UCA leveling kit and also the Cognito Pitman/Idler Arm support kit. After installing the pitman/idler support kit, while the truck was still up on the jack stands, I was testing the feel of the steering lock to lock and noticed what I consider a potentially serious problem:

At full right hand turn at full lock I noticed that the turn limit "bump" stops on the left (driver's side) spindle/steering knuckle were lacking a 1/4" of making contact. What I found really disturbed me. The Cognito idler support arm was hard up against the center link, right where the steering stabilizer is mounted. This is bad news because the mechanical advantage of this scissor like action puts an extreme amount of sideways shear stress on the the idler arm mounting stud that the center link is mounted on. This point of contact is now acting as the turn limit bump stop!

I contacted Cognito immediately about this (emailed them photos also), and they told me that my alignment was probably in an extreme toe-out situation, and after a professional alignment the problem would be corrected. Wrong! I knew this wasn't the case as I checked the toe-in toe-out with a tape measure and it showed a 1/16" toe-in which is within specs.

Because I installed the Cognito UCA's and cranked up the torsion bar keys an alignment was called for anyway, so I just just had a professional alignment done yesterday, which is why I waited to post this. The alignment DID NOT correct this problem. I will contact Cognito again concerning this, but I don't see any easy fix for this. Today, with my right angle grinder, I ground a notch in the center link at the point of contact and also ground a little off the Cognito idler support arm. This has fixed that point of contact but the spindle turn limit stop still lacks about an 1/8" of making contact, because now the outboard side of the Cognito support arm is contacting the front frame cross member. Also in an extreme left turn at lock the Cognito pitman support arm also contacts the front frame cross member on the left side and prevents the right side spindle turn limit stop from engaging by about 1/16". The spindle turn limit stops need to take the stress of a full lock turn, not the Cognito components, especially in extreme off-roading situations.

At any rate I urge anyone who has installed the Cognito pitman/idler support arm kit to remove your front skid plate ASAP and do an inspection. I can't believe that my '05 H2 is unique in some way. If this is a problem with my ride, I'm betting it's a problem with your ride too. I'd sure like to find out!

edit: Actually you don't really need to remove the skid plate, just turn the steering lock to lock and look underneath to see if the turn limit stops are making contact. If you have this problem, please post your experience here, I'll be contacting Cognito about this next Monday. I also started this same topic over at the ******* Forums (http://www.*******club.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7865).

http://www.*******club.com/forum/download/file.php?id=15599

[SummitUp]

OK, I found this situation unacceptable and I had no choice but to address this problem in the quickest easiest way. What I did was fabricate adjustable turn limit stops on my H2 (on both sides). I'm now confident that there will be no abnormal stresses applied to the Cognito support arms, and a little bonus is If I go with 37" tires I wont have to worry about them rubbing the front stabilizer bar at full lock! :lol:

If anyone else who's installed the Cognito Pitman/Idler support kit has this problem, please post your experience here!

At any rate, as the old saying goes, a picture is worth a thousand words, so I'll just let the photos tell the story:

http://www.*******club.com/forum/download/file.php?id=15641

[Rhyno]

I have the same problem as SummitUp. Thanks for the post by the way!! I wouldn't have known there was a problem without it. I do not have the Cognito UCA's on my truck. The shop that installed my stuff is going to call Cognito and see what they say which will probably be the same as what they said to SummitUp. My shop will be looking into different options to fix this problem!!

[TXSUT]

Sincerest thanks for the warning and thorough explanation, SummitUp. I just recently had the Cognito kit installed, so now I have some checking to do this weekend. And Rhyno, thanks for adding in your knowledge as well...a second case of the same thing let's me know that I need to take this seriously.

It's funny, a person like me comes to this site thinking it's a safe bet to go with what's recommended, assuming most members here have expertise in all things Hummer. This kit sure came across as the next best thing since sliced bread, and I feel stupid for blindly running with the crowd. :o

[CONRAD II]

It's funny, a person like me comes to this site thinking it's a safe bet to go with what's recommended, assuming most members here have expertise in all things Hummer. This kit sure came across as the next best thing since sliced bread, and I feel stupid for blindly running with the crowd. :o

Reflections of HUMMER life by TXSUT :)

[TXSUT]

Reflections of HUMMER life by TXSUT :)

:clapping: :fdance:

[SummitUp]

Update:

It appears that the probable reason for this problem is that there were variations in the castings of the the spindle/steering knuckles and or LCA's in certain production runs on the GM assembly line, resulting in the turn limit stops engaging in different relative positions on some H2's. This would also explain why some H2 owners experience significant tire rubbing on the stabilizer bar with stock tires at full left or right steering lock, while some owners don't experience tire rubbing even with 37" tires!

The stock tires on my H2 always rubbed at full lock, go figure...

[Metallic Red]

THANKS FOR THE HEADS UP, I will keep this in mind for future install.

[JPrusinowski]

Thanks for the great info guys! This is unbelievable to me. Any word back from Cognito? I just purchased the Moog stuff and the Support kit (Cognito) to be installed shortly. Now I am concerned to say the least! I bought the support Kit from Norcal, I wonder if they are aware. I hope I can return if it does indeed turn out to be an issue. Glad know one got hurt as this is potentially very serious.

Thanks again, please keep us posted on your progress.

Jeff

[Rhyno]

My shop that did my install contacted Cognito and they said that there is nothing wrong with there product!!

I will be taking my H2 into the shop on Monday and they will look into fixing the problem front the Steering kit

[TXSUT]

All I have done so far is what SummitUp recommended..."turn the steering lock to lock and look underneath to see if the turn limit stops are making contact" and mine are NOT making contact, there's about a 1/4" gap at full lock. So, I guess that confirms that I have the same issue. Guess it's back the shop we go.

I've never had any tire rubbing issues, though, even with 37s (except on the fender well).

[SummitUp]

My shop that did my install contacted Cognito and they said that there is nothing wrong with there product!!
Yes, this is the same attitude I'm getting. They're in denial if you ask me.

Here's the thing:
I don't think the potential seriousness of this problem has been fully appreciated by Cognito. If even only a small percentage of H2's have this problem, and if just one of these experiences a steering failure resulting in an accident or injury because of this potential design defect, Cognito will be liable for a major lawsuit. Cognito needs to take this seriously and investigate this. This denial stance they're taking could cost them big time. If the word could only be gotten out on this I know more H2's with this problem would surface. I again urge anyone with the Cognito support arm kit to inspect their ride ASAP!

I will be taking my H2 into the shop on Monday and they will look into fixing the problem front the Steering kit
All I have done so far is what SummitUp recommended..."turn the steering lock to lock and look underneath to see if the turn limit stops are making contact" and mine are NOT making contact, there's about a 1/4" gap at full lock. So, I guess that confirms that I have the same issue. Guess it's back the shop we go.
Guys, please keep us informed and post your eventual resolutions to this problem.

[TXSUT]

Question about the "turn limit stop" in a stock application: Do those two surfaces actually touch when at full lock? Only reason I ask, besides being ignorant, is that it seems to me had mine been touching prior to the Cognito kit, it seems like I'd see some wear marks on the mating surfaces. To me, it looks like they have never made contact, no wear marks whatsoever.

[SummitUp]

Question about the "turn limit stop" in a stock application: Do those two surfaces actually touch when at full lock? Only reason I ask, besides being ignorant, is that it seems to me had mine been touching prior to the Cognito kit, it seems like I'd see some wear marks on the mating surfaces. To me, it looks like they have never made contact, no wear marks whatsoever.

Yes they do, but it's not as though the turn limit stops are pounding together with hammer like blows when you turn the steering to it's full extent. Also they stay fairly rusty considering wet road conditions. But they should make contact at full left and right turn... they serve an important function.

But since your stops are lacking a 1/4" of touching, you really need to eliminate any doubt concerning this and remove your front skid plate (it's not hard to do) and inspect the Cognito components at full left and right turns. You've seen my photos so you know what to look for.

[TXSUT]

Thanks SU, I'll do that. My truck is no longer a daily driver, so I get a bit lazy when addressing issues like this...but I'll report back asap.

Thanks again for all of your help!

Pete

[Rhyno]

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[SummitUp]

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[Rhyno]

SummitUp, My shop did the same thing that you did to limit the steering. They installed nut's that you can adjust to limit the steering from hitting. I did not trim the Cognito support arms. I did lose a bit of turn radius

[TXSUT]

Finally got up under my truck this weekend...same problem. :rant:

[SummitUp]

SummitUp, My shop did the same thing that you did to limit the steering. They installed nut's that you can adjust to limit the steering from hitting. I did not trim the Cognito support arms. I did lose a bit of turn radius
Rhyno, thanks for the update! Can you post a photo showing what your shop did?

Finally got up under my truck this weekend...same problem. :rant:
TX, what are you planning to do to fix this?

Seems like Cognito should be picking up the tab for these repairs! :raar:

[TXSUT]

TX, what are you planning to do to fix this?

Seems like Cognito should be picking up the tab for these repairs!

Not sure at this point, but I agree that Cognito should stand behind their products. I'm still under extended warranty, so drilling those holes to fit steering stops makes me a bit nervous.

[Rhyno]

Here is a pic

[agood1]

Did this ever get resolved?...I am thinking of putting this on my H2, but only if Cognito has decided to address this issue.

[HUMMERICH23]

What do you guys then suggest for steering up grade if cognito is poorly designed? So if you are going to keep stock tire size, should you only upgrade tie-rods to hd tie-rods? If you go to 37" can you list what is the most important upgrades to front steering (ex, pitman, idler arm, tie-rods, shocks, control arm, etc?) or do you even need to upgrade anything if you go to 37's

Rich

[SummitUp]

Wow, I havn't re-visited this topic in a while. I have to say I'm really disappointed to see that Elcova won't even allow the posting of a link to another hummer forum. What small minded BS! Come on mods, isn't the point of this forum to help fellow Hummer owners with problems they experience with their vehicles? This is just one more reason I (and many others) don't bother to visit the Elcova forums any longer! :raar:

At any rate, as far as I know Cognito denied there was any problem with their product, and they still sell it today.

Try this work around to bypass Elcova's stupid blocked link policy. Click on the link below, and when you get to the page that wont load correctly, replace the asterisks in the address bar of your browser with "h-u-m-m-e-r-x" (without the quotes and the dashes) and reload the page. Hopefully you'll load the topic in question on that "other forum" complete with photos and a better discussion of the problem.

*******club.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7865

[HummerRidin26"kmc's]

I searched my cognito kit over an its with in 1/8 inch from hitting the center link aswell. what is this problem causing? Shaking? ive noticed a slight shake in my front end recently wasnt sure if it may be from this an ive also noticed liderarm an pitman arm bolts from the cognito kit have been working thereselves loose even with locktight. i also have had a aftermarket pivot box installed i wonder if that is whats keeping them from hitting being in a diffrent mounting position. gah an to be a hummer aka OFFroad Warrior i sure have had my time with suspension problems hopefully this one isnt a biggie an for those thinking of using this kit iam not real sure how bad of a situation this problem is. i cant tell you with out upgrading the strenght of the pitmanarm an idlerarm you will have front end problems sooner than later. my sugestions would be before you begin 2 have problems upgrade tierods(fabtech),pivot box,idler&pitman,edelbrock panhard rod, edelbrock trailing arms. this will make for a much much more enjoyable truck. or you can do as i did an just let it go until its all FD up an have 2 spend around 3-4 grand 2 get it all fixed it caused my hubs 2 go out even.To bad Gm couldnt have built these trucks with 2500 or 3500 series steering?suspension parts because it sure would have made hummer owners much much happier and much more money in there pocket instead of having to upgrade a 60,000 doller trucks suspension parts. these trucks weight what 1.5 tons heavier than a 1500 series truck. your steering will give you problems eventually. that much weight on those quality of parts you would be doing good 2 get 50k miles before you have problems iv heard reports of people having issues within 8000k miles