GM Report; Category....Impact Damage.....solution...CYA and replace it so she doesn't bad mouth us on that thar internet thingy.

I know I"m late to this conversation today, but the drive and all....

I was really digging the 3's until that happened. The 2's weak link is the tie rod and easily fixed on the trail. But if the 3's weak point is the drivetrain, then that's a major problem GM must address. That'll also keep us from buying one for wheeling.
That's too bad, because the 3's crawl like crazy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is there a reasonable fix for the drivetrain issue? What caused the diff teeth to break? Can it be fixed with just stronger diffs?
I agree that "2's weak link is the tie rod and easily fixed on the trail," but I'd go one step further and say that the weak link can be preventatively repaired for about $300 parts and labor with the FT rods, and it would be much rarer to have them fail (although you or CP – can’t recall who - managed to be the first and only person on the planet to bend one). To me, doing serious wheeling in an H2 with stock tie rods is like taking out an expensive boat when you know you have a repairable hole in the hull.

LMFAO X10 gagillion!!!!!

FWIW, I like the way my truck handles with the Cognitos. Seems firmer. But I don't have a lift like you and Phil - so it might work differently on mine. I also have no way to know if I'm preventing any wear. But it does make me "feel" like I'm saving my pitman and idler arms.

Drive safely.

I know I"m late to this conversation today, but the drive and all....

I was really digging the 3's until that happened. The 2's weak link is the tie rod and easily fixed on the trail. But if the 3's weak point is the drivetrain, then that's a major problem GM must address. That'll also keep us from buying one for wheeling.
That's too bad, because the 3's crawl like crazy. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Is there a reasonable fix for the drivetrain issue? What caused the diff teeth to break? Can it be fixed with just stronger diffs?
I agree that "2's weak link is the tie rod and easily fixed on the trail," but I'd go one step further and say that the weak link can be preventatively repaired for about $300 parts and labor with the FT rods, and it would be much rarer to have them fail (although you or CP – can’t recall who - managed to be the first and only person on the planet to bend one). To me, doing serious wheeling in an H2 with stock tie rods is like taking out an expensive boat when you know you have a repairable hole in the hull. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

But, with the FT tierods...does that put the CV more at risk?

LOL too funny

Ken, It's all good. My being Hypoglycemic and having very little to eat by hour 8-10-12-14 I was probably getting on everyones nerves It should be me apologizing to everyone for putting up with me.

It was amazing to see everyone pitch in, help where they could and work toward getting everyone one off the trail and back to home base safe.

I think everyone learned something that day.


That option wasn't even discussed by any of us. We didn't think about it, but that would have been the way to go. You can bet we'll remember that if there's another catastrophic failure on the trail.

As the day turned to night, around 7pm, and everyone realized we weren't getting off the trail for several more hours, tensions became thick. We all were edgy, tired, hungry, and running low and water.

I apologize to Fubar for being smart with him at one point.

Around 9pm, it seemed we were all resigned to the fact we weren't grilling out again and just took everything in stride.

The night stuff was really fun. Seeing the lights in the distance of so many Hummers was really cool and we all learned alot about recovery.

All in, all out. No one, and nothing left behind. Great job, Gang. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Fubar, whose sunset (maroon?) H2 is that? Digging the wheels and the custom front brush guard/wing! Any pic of it from the front?

Kick ass burnt orange with a cool bumper and rack system built by ...neil????

Yes, the bumper is being offered by Neil.

Here is the best front shot I have. I'm sure Neil could provide you with better product shots.

who's neil? Is he the H2o guy?

Great, while you guys were playin out in Moab, i was up by estas park squeezing, no scratching my H2 through a trail made for an ATV that some bonehead in a jeep went down and needed someone to pull him out.

Looks like fun, but i know i would definatly pussy out on some of that **** with the 300 foot ledges. Any body damage you guys?

--John

Quote: who's neil? Is he the H2o guy?
__________________________________________________
yes

Ah ha! Thanks.

Alec, it looks like your daughter took some really good pictures. Tell her she did a good job.

I don't think any of the winches overheated. I thought my thermometric one did for moment, but the controller had just slipped out of place. Alec's winch acted up randomly and would stop working. But I don't think it was due to overheating.

Adam doing the funky chicken:

I don't think any of the winches overheated. I thought my thermometric one did for moment, but the controller had just slipped out of place. Alec's winch acted up randomly and would stop working. But I don't think it was due to overheating. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So were you guys limited by the winch duty cycles on your electric winches, i.e. did you ever have to sit and wait for cool down? Or was this a non-issue?

No, we kept leap-frogging vehicles with winches. We used three vehicles for winching. We started with mine, then Alec's, then Rox's, etc. So the winches has plenty of time to cool down. Rox and I use the 9500Ti which has a built-in shut off if overheating occurs. Neither of us reached that threshold.

Wow, I guess you guys like Moab Pictures. Yesterday the 24th I made available to you all the Moab Pictures I took. And boy did the members/visitors of this site enjoy.


Daily Statistics for April 2006
Day Hits Files

23 55 46
24 11314 10068

Thanks. This should serve as an example for anyone wanting to adverstise on H2source.com that this site gets seen by a lot of people.

Fub, Get 'em loaded to our FTP site! Do Now! You take great pics.

thanks
In case I didn't say it on the trail, You did a great job of getting everyone threw the day.

Since the factory tie rods are a weak point, replacing them will move it somewhere else IMO.

And yeah, I'm pretty sure it was me that bent the HD tie rod.

Does that mean that the Moab thread I left has the FTP server Info? Oops.

exactly. The breakage will get moved up the drive train to something not so easy to fix or replace.

Now I'm going to have to hacksaw some weak points in my FT rods.

great pix fubar , cant wait to get home and see mine on something bigger than a 3 inch monitor LOL

still chillin in Moab

CP is all into that abuse thing....

no it's a choice you've made in hopes of never having a trail issue and hopefully it will pay off for you and you'll never suffer breakage upstream from your new beefier t-rods Pratice BTM, live BTM and you'll reduce the chances of anything going wrong even further.

Neo, There's a 19 inch maybe it's only 17 inch but either way there is a larger monitor in the lounge area of the Gonzo. Thanks, you've taken some great stuff as well.

Not true. The stock rods are not designed to break, they do beacuse they are weak. Stronger tie rods do not effect the drivetrain or put it any more risk. They simply strengthen a weak point.

Now, if you abuse your vehicle, then expect things to break, but the whole notion that the stock tie rods are some sort of pressure valve is false.

Just because you have stronger tie rods, it does not mean that something else will break instead. It simply means that you won't break a weak point as easily. However, if you force the steering when you are bound, etc, sure the tie rod may not break and something further along may, (that would be the center link, Pitman/idler arms or steering box, not the driveshafts), but that is the drivers choice, you don't force IFS period.

You break driveshafts or CV's from too much driveline stress, often accompanied by severe angles, you do not break driveshafts or CV's by simply having HD tie rods.

I've blown two CV's, many Pitman/idler arms, and a steering box, all because of how I drove, not because I had HD tie rods. I've never broke a tie rod, stock or HD. Steering stress and driveline stress are related with IFS, but the concept of HD tie rods breaking the driveline is just plain wrong.

If you allow an IFS front end to bounce or force the steering, you will break something. The HD tie rods remove one link, it doesn't mean you can abuse the vehicle until something else breaks. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Not saying that they are not good to have, because they have really saved alot I'm sure.

But.... if you are driving it harshly or whatever and that tie rod will not brake- something would have to give in. If not the tie rod something else along the line will give- it is just physics.

Phill, I am going to have to disagree with you and I guess it just depends on who you talk to. The Mech's that I've spoken to at various Hummer dealerships have all, every one of them said that the tie rods on the H2 have been designed to be the week link and designed to fail to prevent upstream damage of more critical parts. Thats not saying that if one goes to beffier t-rods that something IS or WILL break just that there is a greater possibility. That said opinions are like A-holes everyone has one so I will defer to your greater knowledge and experience.

Thanks for the info Phil. I've been considering the upgrade to the Fabtech's. But I'm at 3.5 years without a break of my original tie rods. I'm almost sentimental about them - no breaks in 6 Moab trips.

So, if you've upgraded to larger tires and/or a lift...then the tie-rods should definately be upgraded bcs the stress to the whole system is increased...is that right?

That's what I've been thinking. I'm ready for some new tires and will probably go with 37s. It seems to make sense to upgrade the TRs at this point.