Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

The MSRP on the Rubi was I interested in was definitely close to $33K, but that was an Unlimited with auto, dual roofs and a few other goodies. I'm sure the base "X" was $18-19K, but that might have been the 05 price.

I agree about building up. If I wanted real rock-crawler, I'd buy a ten yr old TJ or 4Runner and modify it. I don't think many factory Rubis are sold to hard-core trail drivers.

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

yer stupid.

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

I agree about building up. If I wanted real rock-crawler, I'd buy a ten yr old TJ or 4Runner and modify it. I don't think many factory Rubis are sold to hard-core trail drivers.[/quote]

And even fewer H3's are sold to hard-core trail drivers. Most H3 sales are in affluent urban areas.

S.

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

That's just great. Thank-you.







:p :D

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

They're closely matched with slightly different advantages. Offroad, comparing the manual trannys, the JK's 6-spd has better low range and overdrive, but in the automatics, the H3 has better gearing overall.

JK features that the H3 lacks:

- convertible soft or hardtop
- removable doors w/ short door option
- fold-down windshield
- front e-locker
- elec sway-bar disconnect

H3 features the JK lacks:

- leather
- rear side curtain air bags
- full-time AWD

Advantages over the '07 H3:

Better Torque/Weight ratio (at higher RPMs)
Higher (slightly better) crawl ratio with manual tranny
Internal roll cage
Better ground clearance (by 1 inch)
Longer wheelbase
-- more front and rear passenger room
-- potentially nicer highway ride and easier time climbing
Shorter length overall (13 in), yielding shorter overhangs
-- better approach and departure angles
Narrower width (1 in)
-- it may possibly suffer less side damage on some trails
Larger windows
-- potentially better view of the trail
More cargo room
-- partly impeded by roll cage
Slightly better EPA mpg on paper
-- (we'll see when it hits the streets)

Disadvantages to the '07 H3:

Lower HP/weight ratio
Less HP & torque at low RPMs
Lower (worse) crawl ratio on auto tranny
Shorter track (by 3.5 in)
-- less stable on side slopes and maybe during cornering
Lower breakover angle (by 4 degrees)
-- more likely to high center
Wider curb-to curb turning circle (by 4 in)
-- less agile in turns or switchbacks
Smaller stock tire size (by 1 in)
-- plus a stock H3 can easily run 35's
Lower payload (by 150 lbs)
Lower tow rating (by 1000 lbs)
Lower roof load capacity

Anyway, it's all academic. Decide what you need, take a test drive, and pick the rig that gets it done for you. I wanted a 4-door rig to get me around in style and take me to places most people can't go. For me that's the H3.

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

we have a jeep store as well, and even my jeep counterparts like the H3 better.:D

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

My point is that I wouldn't expect to see serious rock crawlers buying a new $30K+ anything. They'll buy a used 4x and put their money into mods. Offroad flavor is used to sell all SUVs, but the H3 is convenient family vehicle in urban areas and great offroad too. The Rubicon definitely is not, but the bulk of buyers are urban. Though the Rubi is marketed as a ready-made rock crawler, most of the Rubicons I see in So CA are driven by young women.

I had a co-worker who commuted every day in a Wrangler, but only about seven or eight miles each way on local roads. When he changed jobs and his commute grew to close to 20 miles freeway each way, the Jeep didn't last long.

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

Well I must admit Hummer just does it better as I'm older and I like confort but don't have the budget for an expensive SUV, but have done the Jeep thing so the H3 is perfect.

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

Yes, but I think the guys who compete in organized events live in a different universe than the avg 4x4er.

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

Well, I do own both (TJ & H3) and I can tell you that the Jeep is a lot more utilitarian. But, it also is a lot more fun to run around in with the top & doors off. The H3 seems too confined, but more refined. I am still learning about it's idiosyncracies such as having to open the door to adjust the seat. Also, for me, the windows are too high to rest your arm on while driving and the rest on the door too low. But... I love its looks and the fact that I am one of the few around here who has one (less than 6 in this area). I can run around town in my cookie cutter truck that gets 13 mpg and nobody pays me any attention, but if I'm in the H3, the hippies go ape and yell obscenities at me blaming me for Iraq.

But, consider this: my closest Hummer dealer is 200+ miles away, my closest Jeep dealer is 5. I have stacks of Jeep parts catalogs and there are dozens of online places to buy accessories. I haven't found a H3 specific catalog yet, they are lumped in the back of H2 stuff. Same-same online. Also, if you remove all the bling for sale and the over priced roof racks, there really is only a dozen or so items for the H3. Similar items such as nerf steps cost almost double for the Hummers as they do for the Jeeps. Why? Are they made of twice the material? I don't think so, the manufacturers are capitalizing on a more afluent market.

There are numerous comanies such as AEV that will build you a Jeep with a Hemi in it, or a Chevy 350, or Ford 5.0, or a diesel, but nobody that I've seen does for the H3 (yet). I know Bully Dog was working on stuffing a diesel in an H3 for SEMA, but have yet to hear if that has gone through or not. I asked my source at Quadratec why they don't carry H3 accessories and he said, "...from the inside news....GM is going down and going down hard. They lose money on every car...the trucks are the only thing keeping the money afloat and many of our vendors are not investing money in GM products due to a fear that they will not be around much longer. Toyota is on the verge of buying out the Chevrolet brand (GM is going to be spun off like AMC did to AM General)....and the Hummer line is not doing that well either. From the numbers we have the Liberty is still out pacing it. (The Commander is tanking big time though.....) I like the H3 though....more than the KJ." If this is the case, then it would explain why companies like Hypertech are dragging their heels on a power programmer for the H3, yet have one for the Commander. And the lack of performance mods.

I guess my point is if you want an offroad TOY that you can bolt up a ton of aftermarket items and thrash it around on the trail without worry, then buy the Jeep. If you want a more luxurious and refined vehicle then the H3 is for you. There will be people who thrash their H3's offroad and Rubi owners that never leave the mall parking lot. It is all in the eye (and wallet) of the beholder.

The perfect offroad vehicle for me would have to bee a 2003-2006 Unilimited Rubicon. Longer wheelbase and add a long arm lift, some 35" or 37" tires and a winch and you are done. IMHO.

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

fixed;)

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

Nah, the 2003-2006. I think it will be like the CJ8 in the future. Plus, it has the die-hard and bulletproof 4.0 inline six that they dropped for '07. I'll have to see a 2007 in person before I determine on it. :D

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

MMMMMMMMMMM diesel

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

if someone says the H3 has AWD again I'm seriously gonna snap. If you don't know the difference between AWD and full time 4WD please look it up. Saturn vues have AWD. HUMMERs have full time 4WD:mad:

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

Jeep modders have had a 40 year head start. Give the H3 a few years to build a sustainable aftermarket base; there'll be plenty of aftermarket stuff, provided GM maintains the basic H3 platform to make it worthwhile for fabricators to invest.

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

x100!!! :D

Re: H3 VS new Rubicon Wrangler......
 

You're right, "full-time 4WD" would have been more correct ... the difference being that the H3's xfer case has locking 4-hi and 4-lo options, which a Saturn Vue lacks. Didn't mean to give you heartburn tho. Have a tums on the house ;)