Hummer Forums by Elcova - Will the plane takeoff?

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- - Will the plane takeoff? (http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21857)

h2co-pilot

11-03-2006 01:01 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

You don't get any extra wind flow while on the treadmill.

CO Hummer

11-03-2006 01:04 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2co-pilot

You don't get any extra wind flow while on the treadmill.

Except if Ken is in the vicinity.

Wisha Haddan H3

11-03-2006 01:07 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by CO Hummer

Doesn't the conveyor prevent the plane from moving at all? If so, no movement of air over the wings, no lift.

Unless the plane is physically attached to the conveyor, the conveyor has nothing to do with the plane's speed. The props push the air and the plane moves forward through the air, rolling right over the conveyor. Forward motion -> relative air motion over wings -> lift

PARAGON

11-03-2006 01:11 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

True that a plane can't take off w/o airflow over the wings to generate lift.

So the underlying question is ... "can a plane generate forward motion (into the wind) on a runway that moves in the opposite direction?"

A car could not, because it generates forward motion by transferring energy to the ground, which would be negated by the conveyor's opposite motion. But a self-propelled plane could still move forward, because it accelerates by pushing the air, irrespective of ground speed or conveyor direction.

That really has nothing to do with it.

Wheels have to turn in either situation. In the case of the plane, it has to move relative to air to lift off, a car doesn't. That is the only difference. How they apply their power has no bearing on this riddle.

Even if a plane is "pushing the air" it has to push against that air (thrust) to make the plane move, gaining speed. As it gains that speed the conveyor is matching the speed in the opposite direction, same as a car would.

PARAGON

11-03-2006 01:12 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

Can't move forward relative to the air around it if the wheels turn at a speed that nets zero relative to that air due to the conveyor.

Mrs.ssippi

11-03-2006 01:13 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Okay I want to change my answer from yellow to 2:30 am.:giggling:

h2co-pilot

11-03-2006 01:17 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

It says that the conveyor will change speed according to the plane's. So it will not move via air or land.

PARAGON

11-03-2006 01:19 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

There are 2 answers to this question.

BlueHUMMERH2

11-03-2006 01:21 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060203.html

PARAGON

11-03-2006 01:28 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueHUMMERH2

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/060203.html

Hey thongboy, got something better than a link to some ignorant liberal columnist?

BlueHUMMERH2

11-03-2006 01:39 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Ok, fine, here's a link to another site.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...5/phy05023.htm

BlueHUMMERH2

11-03-2006 01:41 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

And another:

http://www.airliners.net/discussions...d.main/136068/

h2co-pilot

11-03-2006 01:42 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

WhoTF is Fransico?:D:D

PARAGON

11-03-2006 01:42 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueHUMMERH2

Ok, fine, here's a link to another site.

http://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasc...5/phy05023.htm

Have you used a brain before? Tried comprehension before?

That's not the same question as the one asked here.

BlueHUMMERH2

11-03-2006 01:45 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Have you used a brain before? Tried comprehension before?

That's not the same question as the one asked here.

Doesn't matter. It's not really about the mass of the aircraft that's important.

PARAGON

11-03-2006 01:49 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueHUMMERH2

Doesn't matter. It's not really about the mass of the aircraft that's important.

WTF are you talking about. Who said anything about Mass.

You really don't get it. You are not comparing apples and apples.

Two completely different questions.

PARAGON

11-03-2006 01:50 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2co-pilot

WhoTF is Fransico?:D:D

San?

BlueHUMMERH2

11-03-2006 01:51 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PARAGON

WTF are you talking about. Who said anything about Mass.

You really don't get it. You are not comparing apples and apples.

Two completely different questions.

This

Hi there is a question going around on a remote control plane forum that goes like this:
"Imagine a plane is sat on the beginning of a massive conveyor
belt/travelator type arrangement, as wide and as long as a runway,
and intends to take off. The conveyer belt is designed to exactly
match the speed of the wheels at any given time, moving in the
opposite direction of rotation.
There is no wind.
Can the plane take off?"

is only different from this

A plane is standing on a runway that can move (like a giant conveyor belt). This conveyor has a control system that tracks the plane's speed and tunes the speed of the conveyor to be exactly the same (but in the opposite direction) instantly.

in the fact that it's about a model aircraft. The wheels have nothing to do with this problem.

It's about physics of thrust, mass, and lift and how they pertain to the aircraft.

PARAGON

11-03-2006 02:01 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueHUMMERH2

I am beginning to think you really ARE this fvcking stupid and it's not all an act. Geezus...... QUESTIONS goofnuts QUESTIONS The question asked here is not the same question asked in the links you provided. Then you spew out this Mass crap like it has anything to do with the discussion here.

QUESTIONS

I stated "That's not the same question as the one asked here." To which you reply "Doesn't matter. It's not really about the mass of the aircraft that's important."

THE QUESTIONS ARE FVCKING DIFFERENT

Wisha Haddan H3

11-03-2006 02:11 AM

Re: Will the plane takeoff?

Quote:

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Don't have a heart attack, paragon. The questions are worded slightly differently, but the scenarios are exactly the same. Only the scale is different, which isn't relevant as long as we're talking about models that can actually fly. The physics of flight are the same regardless of size/scale/mass.

Go eat some dinner. I think maybe your blood sugar is off.

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