Re: Increased MPG
 

Ebay seems to have dozens of people selling these kits in one form or another. It looks like a majority of them talk about the O2 sensor problem. Most recommend the spacer talked about above that will move the sensor further out of the exhaust flow. One of the guys talks about using the foil method that my brother mentioned to me. Still researching...

Re: Increased MPG
 

i'm working with a guy to make one for his exterra (spelling). we'll see how it goes. if you have a wide band it should show rich appon intial introduction of the HHO, then the fuel trims should work to start leaning things out for you. if you have a scanner like hptuners like i have you could watch in real tim what th STFT (short term fuel trims) are doing then you would know for sure if it is working.

Re: Increased MPG
 

You're not in the mid-atlantic area, are you?

I don't have the HPTuner, have been thinking about getting it...

Re: Increased MPG
 

no, i'm in maryland.

Re: Increased MPG
 

You're kidding. I live in south Carroll County and work in Howard. Where r u?

Re: Increased MPG
 

pax river navy base. sorry so long to reply been in afghanistan. there is a group near here that is real big into this and has intruction for free to build your own setup. or you can buy his parts for $170 and build it yourself or buy a built unit for $240.

Re: Increased MPG
 

From what research is out there the trick to these Hydrogen generators is really to apply this fuel effectivly with a electronic device called a EFIE. For H3's what this does is signal correct the 02 sensors so they do not call for rich fuel mix to the ECN.
So if you were to install a hydroxy booster without a EFIE you would over time see no fuel savings once the 02 sensors have done thier corrections and called for a richer gasoline mix...

Re: Increased MPG
 

I got the Hydro 4000. It's sitting in my house now. I hope to play with it over the next couple of weekends. The manufacturer says there will be no problem with the O2 sensors. I'll find out. The others that I've talked to about it say to either wrap the sensors in foil or install the O2 spacer. I have both to try if I see any issues.

wpage, do you have any more info on this EFIE? I've never heard of it. I'll do some searching but if you have more knowledge, please share.

4.8t, pax river is about 1.5-2 hours from me. Maybe we can arrange a Saturday to get together and compare systems after we're up and running?

Re: Increased MPG
 

On these EFIE devices there is alot of discussion regarding how to best utilize them to trick the 02 sensors. You will need to find some info pertaining to the booster you bought.

From what is out there many users of these hydrogen boosters with these modern fuel injected engines with sensors that monitor oxygen. They see dramatic results initially. Then the 02 sensor reads high oxygen levels in the exhaust and calls for this rich mix.

This EFIE unit and there are kits you can build and others you can buy depending on how many sensors you have. (My 06 3.5 has 2) There are breakthrough units now that even connect to the mass air flow sensor MAF so you can tweak that as well to lean out your gas mix and utilize the hydroxy fuel efficiently...

Do a google search under EFIE and you will get plenty of hits to choose from.

Re: Increased MPG
 

When I looked earlier, I got a ton of hits. I'll check more into it later. I thought only one O2 sensor dealt with fuel. Don't I just need to mess with that one?

Just spent some time crawling around the H3 looking for mounting spots. Not as much room in there as I hoped. I need about 15" vertical by 5" diameter. I also need to have access to the top and bottom side of the unit (fill and drain caps). The best I can find is behind the passenger side headlight before the air filter. The stock filter is gone and I have the K&N FIPK, so there's enough room for the diameter but not enough vertical. I would need to cut the upper support that is holding the rubber hood support and the metal at the bottom of the air filter cavity. The rubber hood support would stay. Does anyone know if there is anything immediately under that upper metal fender well that the air filter sits on? Or how much room is between that and the plastic fender that you see from inside the wheel well? Or any other suggested mounting spots?

Re: Increased MPG
 

Anoher location for your booster and bubbler might be driver side in front of the fire wall...

The EFIE Depending on your engine and year go to George Wisemans site @ Eagle you only need to cover the 02 sensor b4 the catalytic converter.

If you have the knock sensor you may need another EFIE to correct that signal as well

Other wise your performance will be negated by the sensors doing thier jobs...

Good Luck

Keep us posted on your progress please.

Re: Increased MPG
 

There is so much bunk science on the internet on this stuff its not even funny.

Truths:

1) The basic technique for generating the hydrogen is electrolysis. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxyhydrogen In actuality you are generating oxygen and hydrogen. Follow some of the links for the science behind it.

2) This gas is generated in a perfect stochimetric ratio - that is 2 hydrogen atoms for every one oxygen atom - the correct amount needed to burn. If this gas is injected past the mass air meter, you should need no additional air to burn the hydrogen injected.

3) You can make one of these yourself for less than $100 bucks with some pvc pipe and stainless steel plates, and heavy gauge wire. Just google hho generator

4) I've run the numbers, a system drawing 100 amps, which this system does not appear to, gives the equivalent btu content of 0.03 gallons of gas per hour. Unless there is some black magic going on in the combustion chamber, i'm not buying it.

5) I have yet to see anyone publish test results on any device of its kind like this that wasn't along the lines of we drove the the car without the system and got x mpg, then we drove it again and got y mpg. No long term statistical averages, no documentation of control parameters for testing, etc. Do you really think the durango gets 9 mpg without the system? One isolated test proves nothing.

Re: Increased MPG
 

My opinion on the EFIE is that 100% of the fuel economy gains are due to leaning out the engine. You can run up to about 16.0 AFR before power begins to drop from too lean a mixture.

Every single car off the production line could be setup this way, but the environmentalist hippies have stymied any hopes of this.

Lean mixtures promote higher combustion temps and higher nox emissions. Catalytic converters work best at 14.7 AFR ratios so the leaner mixtures are not compatible with exsiting emission control equipment.

When running in closed loop O2 control, the vehicle ECU will try to maintain 14.7 afr at the exhaust. I own and tweaked an eagle talon back in the day with a piggyback AFR controller. The main purpose was to lean the engine some at full throttle for power gains. However in closed loop mode, the ECU would continually trim the engine back to 14.7.

There was a guy in our group that leaned his car out far enough that the ECU trims maxed out and he was able to hold a lean burn for a considerable stretch of highway. Boosted his mpg from high 20's to high 30's over a couple of hundred miles.

Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lean_burn

Re: Increased MPG
 

I'm in agreement with what you say. And I think the numbers on the Durango test are definately tweaked to make it look better. I got tired of reading and decided to do. I can't offer you the scientific tests but will let you know how things go.

Re: Increased MPG
 

Still alive? Did you do it? How good or bad did it work?

Re: Increased MPG
 

Still alive, not done yet though. I've been trying to find out more info about installing it, the physical part, not the connections. I'm hesitant to start cutting without more info on where I'm cutting into. I did find out that the makers of the hydro installed one on an H3 last month and I'm trying to get info from them on it. They are pretty bad about getting back to me though. :/

Re: Increased MPG
 

CA40g.com

22+mpg daily in my H3.

It ain't hydro, but it works well enough.

Re: Increased MPG
 

Any update on this? Did the Hydro4000 work?