Guys I would not be fair on this topic if I did not share somethings I learned in My research. When the turbo is mounted and there is a little flexibility as to a little more forward but, mainly You try to keep it in the area of where the muffler was. I had planned to move turbo a little more forward than the one in photo's.

In My studying about how the rain and dust etc. would effect the system I have to say in response to water that if You ran in deep enough water that You submerged the turbo You would have water coming in Your doors. The turbo is tucked nicely up in between the rails and I had contemplated building a protective skid plate under it or actually a cage with air flow to protect it from tall pointy rocks and making a heat shield for turbo to help insulate the bottom of H2 from turbo heat. Also there is a snorkle You can add to raise the air intake up into the fender well. For dust or even rain there is a dry sock that even though it is designed for water it would increase the dust filtering dramaticly. Not sure how much the cover would reduce the ability to draw air into the system, that is something Ben would need to answer.
I felt even though I had My problems with the guy mentioned by not being mentioned there is a way to make this product work in off-roading and would feel remiss if I did not share what I learned about that type of use.
TAZ

I would like to comment on the gentleman called " Hummer Deity". Until you have seen or driven this application, you should not be so open to changing Ben's reply. The turbo lag is much less then you would think, but you say your the expert...........Not................
I have a 6.0 Ford Power Stroke and the lag is much more on the Ford then the H2. The H2 spools very quickly, even with the long, extra tubing that needs to be filled...Go back to your physics class and see how fast 5psi can fill those pipes...you will be amazed Mr. Know It All.
I have been driving this H2 for the last three weeks in the rain here in Salt Lake, seem to have no problems what so ever..........oh and guess what, I run an Oil Analysis Lab and have checked the oil time and time again, no water, no soot isuues what so ever.
And to the guy that stated the rear end oil would break down, thats funny,,,,,,EP Gear Oil can with stand over 650 Degrees F before breaking down, trust me, the heat from the turbo is not effecting the rear end oil but maybe by 20 degrees..........
Also Mr. Deity, STS has done a Twin Turbo Kit on a 2005 Mustang and I have to let you know the turbo lag there is NONE...............oh ya, only 2.2 seconds faster in the quarter mile then the supper charged 2005 Mustang version.
I really think it is childish when you modify someone's post............post your own reply.......

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Camman:
I would like to comment on the gentleman called " Hummer Deity". Until you have seen or driven this application, you should not be so open to changing Ben's reply. The turbo lag is much less then you would think, but you say your the expert...........Not................
I have a 6.0 Ford Power Stroke and the lag is much more on the Ford then the H2. The H2 spools very quickly, even with the long, extra tubing that needs to be filled...Go back to your physics class and see how fast 5psi can fill those pipes...you will be amazed Mr. Know It All.
I have been driving this H2 for the last three weeks in the rain here in Salt Lake, seem to have no problems what so ever..........oh and guess what, I run an Oil Analysis Lab and have checked the oil time and time again, no water, no soot isuues what so ever.
And to the guy that stated the rear end oil would break down, thats funny,,,,,,EP Gear Oil can with stand over 650 Degrees F before breaking down, trust me, the heat from the turbo is not effecting the rear end oil but maybe by 20 degrees..........
Also Mr. Deity, STS has done a Twin Turbo Kit on a 2005 Mustang and I have to let you know the turbo lag there is NONE...............oh ya, only 2.2 seconds faster in the quarter mile then the supper charged 2005 Mustang version.
I really think it is childish when you modify someone's post............post your own reply....... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>That was done so Ben would know exactly what he was responding to.

Anyway, when I saw you posted I was hoping you were responding to my questions on the previous page. Here is the post again<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Originally posted by KenP:
Camman, do something about the underside of your truck. It looks like crap! It appears, by the tires, that your truck is the black one I posted a pic of above. Ben said the step tube supports had to be trimmed. Can you, or Ben post a pic of where and how they were trimmed? I want to see what type of work would be needed to do it and to see what it would do to the rock rail supports.

I think everyone can agree the filter would need to be relocated for any wet wheeling, but I'm curious about the turbo's location in relation to the diff housing. Could you measure it? How much clearance is there between the two? Also, if you don't mind measuring the distance from the ground to the return tube, right where it is next to the driveshaft? These are very important questions that need to be answered for anyone that plans on taking their truck offroad.

Ben, just remember I love turbos, but I have to ask: I could just kiss my drivetrain warranty goodbye with this product, can't I? Or do you have some method of doing it I can't find? Maybe if one of your dealers installs the system the drivetrain would be covered? A big selling point for the Mag SC is the dealer install and being able to retain your warranty. That's why so many go that route and they can be had for a comparative price, plus install.

Again, I guess my biggest concern goes to the warranty issue. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Thanks for your help.

And Taz, thanks for the response as well.

It is seems funny that STS would do a twin turbo since on their website they make the statement it will not be beneficial. That was the 2nd thing I had asked them in the request contacts that they were not interested and I told them it would work and be a huge shot to the company image. I was moving from the original normal R@D on H2 to doing something that was on the edge but, again was told twin turbos are not going to help. I told them maybe not on a small car but, I can tell You it will help on a rig that weighs 7000 lbs. Go to 2 smaller turbo's so they will spool up very quickly and create alot more low end torqe which is what the H2 needs. I said once You get them rolling they will move out in a hurry. I explained how i understood how the turbo works and a bigger turbo does not spool as quick as a smaller one. You run the same boost of 5 pounds on each turbo and You do not double the boost but, using the smaller turbo just let's them spool quicker and for Me since I had headers which I was told would not be good and need to bring my stock exhaust to go back on. I disagreed then and said I will design it to work with headers so the idea of the twins were born as We would get alot of exhaust running to the small turbo and spool under 2000 rpm. We talked to turbo manufactures who helped Us decide on the size of twins to use. They said if it was not right they would take them back and give us another set to try.
Well anyway I'm just surprised they messed with twins when they say on the website in the FAQ's that it would not help to do twins.
TAZ

Hey ASS-Cam maybe you should read more my post more carefully instead of trying to find the comedic value in it. What I said that the gear oil would break down quicker, not break down all together. Gear oil in an environment 20 degrees warmer will break down quicker ( not much) than gear oil in a cooler environment none the less gear oil alway eventually breaks down. This is basic physics!Why would people buy rear diff covers with cooling fins if that wasn't the case. So get H2turbo's cock out of your mouth and read posts more carefully before you answer back with another stupid comment.

On the rear differential question:

Air is not a good conductor of heat. Our internal testing showed that the heat from the turbo heated up the surrounding air only at 15-20 degrees.

On the twin turbo question:

A twin setup actually did not spool any quicker than a properly sized single turbo. There are some other advantages if you want to run a lot of boost. Really large turbos are very expensive and it is actually cheaper to run 2 turbos in for really high boost applications.

As much as possible, let's try to keep this thread professional. I know the system is controversial, that's why I'm here to answer your questions.

Ben

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2turbo:
As much as possible, let's try to keep this thread professional. I know the system is controversial, that's why I'm here to answer your questions. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Excellent attitude! I will keep up with interest..

Thanks for the answer. I was voicing a concern not starting a witch hunt. Some people like Camman like to shoot first without looking at validity of my concern.

I guess it's safe to assume my questions on warranty will never be answered.

Ken, I'm sure Jonah will report back with his warranty experience soon. Very curious to find the answer too!

KenP,

Sorry, it's been a busy Monday.

We do not currently offer an additional powertrain warranty like Magnuson.

At the volumes that we could commit to the warranty was going to be too expensive. As our volumes increase, the price of the warranty will go down and we will start to offer it.

From what I've found you really need to read the fine print. There are a lot of exclusions. If you are going to make your purchase decision on this point, I would make sure you get the warranty and talk to them exactly what is excluded and the process that it takes to get the warranty.

That being said, it is illegal for a dealership to automatically void your warranty by installing an aftermarket part. Search on the magnuson moss warranty act and you'll find a ton of information on it.

If you do have a warranty claim and they can prove that it was the aftermarket part that caused it, they can at that point NOT honor the warranty.

Does that answer your question?

Thanks,

Ben

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2turbo:
KenP,

Sorry, it's been a busy Monday.<span class="ev_code_RED">I understand.</span>

We do not currently offer an additional powertrain warranty like Magnuson.

At the volumes that we could commit to the warranty was going to be too expensive. As our volumes increase, the price of the warranty will go down and we will start to offer it.

From what I've found you really need to read the fine print. There are a lot of exclusions. If you are going to make your purchase decision on this point, I would make sure you get the warranty and talk to them exactly what is excluded and the process that it takes to get the warranty.<span class="ev_code_RED">I'm very familiar with the fine print. But that's a good point. Anyone offering a warranty will have exclusions.</span>

That being said, it is illegal for a dealership to automatically void your warranty by installing an aftermarket part. Search on the magnuson moss warranty act and you'll find a ton of information on it.<span class="ev_code_RED">Again, I'm very familiar with the Act. However, other's may not be and should read it before spending so much money. In this case, most claims with the engine, exhaust, transmission, computer, differentials, etc. would surely not be covered by GM.</span>

If you do have a warranty claim and they can prove that it was the aftermarket part that caused it, they can at that point NOT honor the warranty.<span class="ev_code_RED">Yes, they would have to prove it was the fault of the aftermarket accessory. We're back to that proof thing again. It can be subjective. And it can cause problems on both ends.</span>

Does that answer your question?<span class="ev_code_RED">Thanks for taking the time Ben. I think you answered them as well as you can. I appreciate it. I'm sure other's will have more questions since this is such a unique application.</span>

Thanks,

Ben </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Lastly, I know several people really want to see the underside modifications that were needed on the rails. cammon didn't help out there. Maybe you have a pic or two that would help.

Thanks again for the time, Ben.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2Turbo:
At the volumes that we could commit to the warranty was going to be too expensive. As our volumes increase, the price of the warranty will go down and we will start to offer it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If you know the answer to this I'll be surprised, but I'll ask anyway because it just popped in my head. If I don't ask it'll drive me crazy. If someone has your setup installed now and a warranty becomes available later, will you make it available to them also? And lastly, using your current sales and install figures and future projections, how long until one is ready? Best guess?

Thanks again, Ben.

While Magnuson Moss was a great help to aftermarket performance suppliers in general, it is WAY to vague to offer much help when a S/C or Turbo upgrade is installed. If you have a drivetrain problem following a HP upgrade of 50-75% & GM denies coverage, just fix it on your own dime. You don't have enough lawyers to frighten GM, & they have a pretty solid argument to deny warranty repairs anyway.
Now, if after you install the S/C, or Turbo the wiper motor fails & they deny warranty coverage, you've got a case.

Ben We will have to agree to disagree although I fail to see My position as being
unprofessional as alluded to in Your response to my mentioning the twin work which is contray to the STS FAQ. If I touched a nerve it is best to remember that i am a man that will spend money that i earned to prove my self right if provocted to do so. So do not imply I'm unprofessional if it hurt to bring up something that is an issue of STS not my issue. I just brought up what your statements on your website maitains which STS has apparently by the mention of a twin turbo now conflicts with Your mission statement and yes Your answers to a FAQ is a mission statement if You did not know that. I feel you should know that You have offended Me over your comment of unprofessionalism over a statement STS makes. I own as I told you before 5 large companies and did not get there by being unprofessional. I expect an appoligie in a cordial way and all is forgotten as far as I'm concerned. I already have had the feeling of not being treated with respect on past issues so i will not be disrespected in My club family. You came here to discuss your product We did not invite You. I have not been unprofesional in anyway unless your and My idea of it is totaly different. I had felt good with the way things were going until this acusation by you about me bringing up Your own website statements. Nothing was meant by that except something has changed. You say even a year ago you will not do something and turn around and do it etc. etc. etc.
I paid money for one of the best custom turbo builders in Texas to help Me to look into this exact topic and Your theory which is not dead is short concerning the making of a large turbo to spin up as fast as a small turbo. It lies in the basics of the operation of turbos. The big turbos can be made to spool up quicker by having them custom made to twist the exhaust fins to catch the exhaust in larger volume and that is what We are talking about when We discuss the STS is the fact that because the turbo is farther back there is less parasitic loss because the temp of the gas is cooler and denser. You cannot take a off the shelf turbo and compete with other off the shelf smaller turbo that is designed to spool quicker than the big turbo. You have to talk apples to apples and oranges to oranges. The larger turbo would have to be altered or placed in a situation where You would be able to intensify the density of the gases passing by it thusly a set of headers which i was told would not work but, hurt the system. Not true if You want to spool a large turbo sooner as You get more volume than with stock exhaust. Again the whole purpose of STS. Staying with the perameters of the STS philosophy of why You built the system you did, with a larger turbo maitaining it's ability to spool up at it predesigned factory design was do to the heavy more dense gases. That is going by the rules that STS has designed and won awards on. It will not operate as effeciently trying to make it spool up faster without altering the design of the turbo which defeats the idea behind STS and also runs the cost of turbo's up considerable if You have to have them special built and then more R@D. I did my research based on STS ideas and then went out and found that yes You could use smaller turbos with a denser flow of gas, and the small one will spool up quicker everytime as long as the STS philosophy is followed. When I went outside those guide lines I found that it would be economically unfeasible to try and redesign the large turbo to spool up as quickly as the off the shelf design twin smaller turbos. You have a valid point but, I feel from the experience of spending My own money and working with one of the very best custom turbo builders You are wrong on making a large turbo spool up as quickly as a small turbo without great alteration to the large turbo or running headers. So again We will have to agree to disagree. Ben I'm quite versed on turbo's because I spent allot of money learning about them when STS did not want to help me find a way to build a kit for H2's. But the twin deal was brought up by someone else and I had no entention of bringing it up myself except to be surprised that STS messed with twins when it states in the FAQ that it is not necessary and it would not be help. I proved to myself and have not every mentioned this research to anyone until now. I can say without a doubt the oldest members of this forum will tell You how thouroughly I research My ideas before I would even let someone else try them. I have many of the newer emebers PM Me wanting to get guidance on things. I have so many secret things going and KenP will vouch for that it would amase many who think I'm a country bumkin of which I am far from it but, yet know I can be wrong. Knowing that You can be wrong is the thing that keeps a sain man humble.
Thanks for Your time Ben let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. There are many therories out there that most have not pressed to discover unless they spent money to do it. It does not bother Me becuase My mind is so curious. The investment will pay off for Me someday soon.
Thanks for Your time Ben and for having the guts to come on hear and try to clear a few things up. But, the short story is We are very loyal to each other here and sometimes do not even like each other. But, when We need to rally behind a member it is hard to get anywhere but, I do commend You for trying and expect a small appoligie.
TAZ

Search for the threads on LS1.com and LS1Tech.com for many positive feedback postings on this system. I've piloted a couple of F-bodies with it and they drive incredibly well. It's a great bang for the buck IMHO. Tuning is the key in the LS series engines.

Personally I have already done that about a year ago. They are many success stories perticularly in the f body cars as they were the first that STS worked with as best i can tell and got alot of more developement time. We are talking about 7500 pound Hummer H2's. Totally a different case even if it is running a LS1 6.0L. Success in one does not mean success in another just because they have the similar or same engine, unless the same amount of R@D was put into the H2. Again You have to discuss Apples and Apples. Check out the difference in GVW in each vehicle. I would dare say i have an H2 setup right now with just a little more fine tuning would out run many F bodies or at the least give them a scare. My cousin just bought a new Corvette and We already have a race scheduled when I'm finished, which is in the next 2 weeks. Am I afraid not a bit I will smoke his butt and laugh at Him only because he is My cousin and when I mentioned it He just gigled and turned his nose up like the mighty Vette cannot be beat. He is in for a rude awaking. I have a buddy who knows Him and rode in it. I put Him in mine with it not finished with improvements and His comment was He could not reach up and touch the dash in My h2 but, could in the Vette. That gives Me even more reason to go for the juglar because My cousin and I have always been good friends but, there was always the feeling He would leave that He was superior and I at the time farmed 5000 acres and He had 900. I Love Him and would do anything for Him and He Me but when We line it up I'm going to eat his vette alive and spit the pieces out the back. He'll go cry to his wife and I'll have started a HP war between us. That is what makes it fun or it really is not worth doing it. I will be running almost twice the HP he is and I do not smoke the tires to get off the line. It is a whole shot. So yea I know about the LS1's etc. have researched them for a good while know some who run STS and are extremely happy but, I will eat them for lunch too just going to have to be one at a time. I mean I can get what i can without any engine mods, just wait till the heads and cams and muchmore are changed. I'm so far ahead of cous noew that it will be hard for him to catch up. I know where he has to go to get to me but, he does not know where I have gone to get where i am and what else I can do to get further ahead of Him. So just a little frinedly kin rivalry. But, it will play out with others as well.
TAZ
TAZ

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rich S.:
Search for the threads on LS1.com and LS1Tech.com for many positive feedback postings on this system. I've piloted a couple of F-bodies with it and they drive incredibly well. It's a great bang for the buck IMHO. Tuning is the key in the LS series engines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Rich, since you know so much, why don't you get one instead of asking about other options?<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Rich's first post about the Mag SC:
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5106011751/m/426108...261086621#4261086621
Bought a used 2004 H2 last week and I'm considering installing a magnacharger[quote] [quote] Rich's second post about Whipple:
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/4616043161/m/554109...361074721#5361074721
Do they come with any tuning options included or any fuel system upgrades? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

So I took your advice and here is a thread started 7 days ago on LS1tech titled Hydrolocked STS? STS just got to it yesterday. Interesting timing....:
http://www.ls1tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=332601&highlight=sts
Some quotes: He "locked" up his first STS truck in a major downpour but was at full boost when it happened. He also had to drain out the water from the intake tubing. Compression and leakdown test showed the damage.

my car always does that in the rain never stalls out though i tend to always be in boost even in the rain but under normal driving conditions it runs ok

Yup, gotta be careful with rain

I lost compression and closed the gap on a wrist pin which lead me to a motor rebuild. I had tested compression a week before the water suckage and I was at 180-186 across the board. Then a couple days after the water problem I tested it again and 2 cylinders were at 140 and 163 while the rest were still at 180+. The motor knocked like a sun of a gun too and it eventually got so bad I was skerd to drive it anymore.

Well guys the rain fell like a mutherfalker yesterday Of course my daily driver was being driven during this massive rain storm. So I was driving as normal with the (filter sock on) and the car started to hesitate when I would give it some gas. Felt like a miss fire! Finally the car stalled out. So I pulled over and waited for the rain to calm down and the streets to drain off. Then I started the car up again and putted (literally) home. Now today when I went to start up the car it threw these engine codes = P0102, P0158, P0172, P0175. I started to drive the car to my g/f house when 1/2 mile from my house when accelerateing lightly it started to jerk again. So I turned around and went back home. When I was in the driveway I tried to clear it out by giving it little revs. It sounds and runs ok (idles fine) until about 3000rpms then starts to "putt". After letting it idle for a while I tried to drive it again and it juss feels like a miss on more than one cylinder

No boost in the rain either.

MAF is the problem. I had this problem on a road trip, sock on but was raining like a mofo. New sock might I add and no boost. Luckily I had HP tuners with me.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rich S.:
Search for the threads on LS1.com and LS1Tech.com for many positive feedback postings on this system. I've piloted a couple of F-bodies with it and they drive incredibly well. It's a great bang for the buck IMHO. Tuning is the key in the LS series engines. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Rich, since you know so much, why don't you get one instead of asking about other options?<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Rich's first post about the Mag SC:
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/5106011751/m/426108...261086621#4261086621
Bought a used 2004 H2 last week and I'm considering installing a magnacharger[quote] [quote] Rich's second post about Whipple:
http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/4616043161/m/554109...361074721#5361074721
Do they come with any tuning options included or any fuel system upgrades? </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm considering many options a**hat . Not going with an STS since I actually take some of my vehicles off road. There are more positive results than negative on the mentioned sites. I can post links all day as well.

The way STS has them desinged to fit way up inbetween the frame, building a cage just for the pointy rocks that could reach up in there would take care of any of those issues.
Now for the filtering. The dry sock on I feel the off-road H2 will not have problems with the filtering dirty air as has been reported from wet conditions. So I guess I'm saying install it, build a cage, and use the dry sock to filter more heavily and all will be well.
Where there is a will there is a way.
TAZ

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Rich S.:
Not going with an STS since I actually take some of my vehicles off road. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Sounds like the best thing you've posted yet. Since you put a smiley in there, I'll stop here.

Taz, your probably right, a good cage attached to some very strong points on the chassis may do the trick. That and avoiding water.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RLTAZH2:
Ben We will have to agree to disagree although I fail to see My position as being
unprofessional as alluded to in Your response to my mentioning the twin work which is contray to the STS FAQ. If I touched a nerve it is best to remember that i am a man that will spend money that i earned to prove my self right if provocted to do so. So do not imply I'm unprofessional if it hurt to bring up something that is an issue of STS not my issue. I just brought up what your statements on your website maitains which STS has apparently by the mention of a twin turbo now conflicts with Your mission statement and yes Your answers to a FAQ is a mission statement if You did not know that. I feel you should know that You have offended Me over your comment of unprofessionalism over a statement STS makes. I own as I told you before 5 large companies and did not get there by being unprofessional. I expect an appoligie in a cordial way and all is forgotten as far as I'm concerned. I already have had the feeling of not being treated with respect on past issues so i will not be disrespected in My club family. You came here to discuss your product We did not invite You. I have not been unprofesional in anyway unless your and My idea of it is totaly different. I had felt good with the way things were going until this acusation by you about me bringing up Your own website statements. Nothing was meant by that except something has changed. You say even a year ago you will not do something and turn around and do it etc. etc. etc.
I paid money for one of the best custom turbo builders in Texas to help Me to look into this exact topic and Your theory which is not dead is short concerning the making of a large turbo to spin up as fast as a small turbo. It lies in the basics of the operation of turbos. The big turbos can be made to spool up quicker by having them custom made to twist the exhaust fins to catch the exhaust in larger volume and that is what We are talking about when We discuss the STS is the fact that because the turbo is farther back there is less parasitic loss because the temp of the gas is cooler and denser. You cannot take a off the shelf turbo and compete with other off the shelf smaller turbo that is designed to spool quicker than the big turbo. You have to talk apples to apples and oranges to oranges. The larger turbo would have to be altered or placed in a situation where You would be able to intensify the density of the gases passing by it thusly a set of headers which i was told would not work but, hurt the system. Not true if You want to spool a large turbo sooner as You get more volume than with stock exhaust. Again the whole purpose of STS. Staying with the perameters of the STS philosophy of why You built the system you did, with a larger turbo maitaining it's ability to spool up at it predesigned factory design was do to the heavy more dense gases. That is going by the rules that STS has designed and won awards on. It will not operate as effeciently trying to make it spool up faster without altering the design of the turbo which defeats the idea behind STS and also runs the cost of turbo's up considerable if You have to have them special built and then more R@D. I did my research based on STS ideas and then went out and found that yes You could use smaller turbos with a denser flow of gas, and the small one will spool up quicker everytime as long as the STS philosophy is followed. When I went outside those guide lines I found that it would be economically unfeasible to try and redesign the large turbo to spool up as quickly as the off the shelf design twin smaller turbos. You have a valid point but, I feel from the experience of spending My own money and working with one of the very best custom turbo builders You are wrong on making a large turbo spool up as quickly as a small turbo without great alteration to the large turbo or running headers. So again We will have to agree to disagree. Ben I'm quite versed on turbo's because I spent allot of money learning about them when STS did not want to help me find a way to build a kit for H2's. But the twin deal was brought up by someone else and I had no entention of bringing it up myself except to be surprised that STS messed with twins when it states in the FAQ that it is not necessary and it would not be help. I proved to myself and have not every mentioned this research to anyone until now. I can say without a doubt the oldest members of this forum will tell You how thouroughly I research My ideas before I would even let someone else try them. I have many of the newer emebers PM Me wanting to get guidance on things. I have so many secret things going and KenP will vouch for that it would amase many who think I'm a country bumkin of which I am far from it but, yet know I can be wrong. Knowing that You can be wrong is the thing that keeps a sain man humble.
Thanks for Your time Ben let's just agree to disagree and leave it at that. There are many therories out there that most have not pressed to discover unless they spent money to do it. It does not bother Me becuase My mind is so curious. The investment will pay off for Me someday soon.
Thanks for Your time Ben and for having the guts to come on hear and try to clear a few things up. But, the short story is We are very loyal to each other here and sometimes do not even like each other. But, when We need to rally behind a member it is hard to get anywhere but, I do commend You for trying and expect a small appoligie.
TAZ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Taz,

My comment about keeping the thread professional was not directed to you. I apologize if you took it that way.

It was merely an attempt to keep the thread to questions and answers and not personal attacks.

The whole twin turbo question doesn't offend me and I don't see a conflict with our FAQ. If our customers demand twins or if the particular application is better suited to twins, then we'll do that. If it is better as a single, we'll go that route.

I can appreciate the loyalty of your club, but I see no reason to defend it. I have not attacked anyone in your club and have answered questions professionally when others have gone on the attack.

If the forum doesn't appreciate the effort and no one is interested in the products, that's fine. I'll cancel our sponsorship when it is due and we'll part ways.

I thought and still believe it is possible to look at each question and give people additional information.

Ben

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Ben:
For $5195 this system comes complete with tuning and fuel system upgrades. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I really need to be clear here. I like turbos and have talked to a couple of guys about doing a 750hp TT on my next H2 (whenever the heck that will be ) so don't think I'm knocking turbos.

There is atleast one person here that's gotten a Mag SC installed at a dealer with warranty for under 5k. So there two options in the 5k range for HUMMERS. I guess each person needs to decide what is the better fit for them.

I'd still like to see the picks of the rock rail modifications.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Posted by Ben:
I can appreciate the loyalty of your club, but I see no reason to defend it. I have not attacked anyone in your club and have answered questions professionally when others have gone on the attack.

If the forum doesn't appreciate the effort and no one is interested in the products, that's fine. I'll cancel our sponsorship when it is due and we'll part ways.

I thought and still believe it is possible to look at each question and give people additional information. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry Ben, you snuck that in when I was typing. I hope you don't think my questions are meant as an attack on you or your product. I have lots of questions that were not answered months ago by some considering the STS.

Most of us appreciate, very much, the efforts put forth by your company. It is a very unique product and I'm sure you'll sell many here.

Lastly, I for one, appreciate your answers. As I stated above, I have many questions. Well, really not anymore as you've answered all of them except one. The rock rails. I'm sure you'll get to that one when you can.

Thanks again for taking the time to help us out.

As soon as we can get a H2 in here I'll post up the pics of the rail. We've got a busy couple of weeks ahead of our R&D guys, so it could be a while.

I agree that people need to do what is best for them. That is what makes the world go round.

The good thing, either way, we are talking about adding a lot more power to the H2, which is a heckuva lot of fun!

Ben

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Posted by Ben:
I can appreciate the loyalty of your club, but I see no reason to defend it. I have not attacked anyone in your club and have answered questions professionally when others have gone on the attack.

If the forum doesn't appreciate the effort and no one is interested in the products, that's fine. I'll cancel our sponsorship when it is due and we'll part ways.

I thought and still believe it is possible to look at each question and give people additional information. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sorry Ben, you snuck that in when I was typing. I hope you don't think my questions are meant as an attack on you or your product. I have lots of questions that were not answered months ago by some considering the STS.

Most of us appreciate, very much, the efforts put forth by your company. It is a very unique product and I'm sure you'll sell many here.

Lastly, I for one, appreciate your answers. As I stated above, I have many questions. Well, really not anymore as you've answered all of them except one. The rock rails. I'm sure you'll get to that one when you can.

Thanks again for taking the time to help us out. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

KenP

I did not feel like you were attacking the product. It is new and you've had valid questions. I'm sure the people on the forum who have read the thread appreciate you asking them.

Ben

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H2Turbo:
At the volumes that we could commit to the warranty was going to be too expensive. As our volumes increase, the price of the warranty will go down and we will start to offer it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>If you know the answer to this I'll be surprised, but I'll ask anyway because it just popped in my head. If I don't ask it'll drive me crazy. If someone has your setup installed now and a warranty becomes available later, will you make it available to them also? And lastly, using your current sales and install figures and future projections, how long until one is ready? Best guess?

Thanks again, Ben. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's a good question. When I talk to the insurance company I'll ask them if we can sell a warranty to those systems that were already installed by authorized dealers.

Based on current projections, I would think that we'd have enough volume in 6 months. If things don't go as well as hoped, probably another year.

Ben

Damn, you been saving your words up? Glad to see you back. Can we expect more Taz-like posts.

What do you think about heat back at the rear diff in an off-road rock-crawly type situation. There will not be hardly any air flow since the truck will be barely moving but the truck will be loading up and working to make obstacles. Do you think heat would be an issue in those instances?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Damn, you been saving your words up? Glad to see you back. Can we expect more Taz-like posts. Wink </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I was waiting for that. That's a valid question Paragon. I'm not a rock crawler so do you think a person would be on it hard enough to actually be in boost for any period of time? I don't know. But there's more clearance between the differential and turbo than the pictures indicate. And most of the heat goes up. You know the cat converters are just a few inchs from the floor of the H2 and they get very hot. I can't honestly answer your question except to say it wouldn't concern me if I were to go crawling.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LasVegas:
I was waiting for that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nice to be predictable.

Do you hear the turbo whine when it has spooled up like one that's under the hood?

Do you know if the torque management is removed in the PCM tune?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LasVegas:
I was waiting for that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nice to be predictable.

Do you hear the turbo whine when it has spooled up like one that's under the hood?

Do you know if the torque management is removed in the PCM tune? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Oh yes. When you go into serious boost you hear the spool-up and the wastegate. The Nelso tune leaves the torque management in but from what I see in Dennis' post all you have to do is hit the tow/haul button to eliminate that.

A few other things I forgot to mention:

1. After removing the stock air filter box you have an abundance of room to mount other accessories under the hood.
2. You could get the kit less the injectors & tune and then buy the injectors yourself and have you're local speed shop do the tune. Probably save a net of about $400
3. I added a small inline oil filter to the return oil line. Probably not necessary but a nice precaution they should consider.
4. With all that water splashing on your air filter it should keep it nice and clean!

Hey All,
I had the H2 into STS today for an upgrade with an Methonal System and also re-routed the air filter from the turbo. I noticed when the airfilter was moved the noise of the Turbo was much less. STS did a great job on the Methonal Kit, dropped the EGT's coming over the point of the mountain today by 200 degrees F. The advice for moving the air filter came from an earlier post on page 2, that was a good idea.......thanks. I don't have access to a good digital camera, but I think Ben from STS took some pictures of the rock-guard issue to be able to post. Sorry, my pics were too dark..........
I really like the turbo kit.........it is fun to get out of the way when you need to.......
One thing you may need to think about is the the exhaust noise..........if you like the sound of a good V8, this is a great options, if you want to sneak up on a deer while road hunting, may want to do something different.
Never meant to offend anybody about the oil, I was just stating a fact..........sorry!!!!!!
We need to all get along here................have an great night all.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by LasVegas:
The Nelso tune leaves the torque management in but from what I see in Dennis' post all you have to do is hit the tow/haul button to eliminate that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey! Don't knock it!

That's ma po man's version of an SC. I'll be getting one soon.

Call Nelson and if STS will allow it He will custom the PCM to suit Your needs better. It just depends if STS will mined or not. He most likely will send You a PCM changed and give you a core credit when He gets Your PCM back to Him.
He can do what ever You ask if within guidelines of STS.
TAZ

Methanol keeps creeping up. I may have to check it out.

How susceptible is the STS Turbo Sysytem setup to water? If I run my H2 through an automated car wash and the undercarriage is washed with jets of water shooting straight up, could this cause water to be sucked up through the filter with this system in place? During heavy rain down pours, several streets near my house can't handle all of the water. I have driven down these streets during these down pours. Near the street gutters, the water just stands. I have hit these spots and so much water splashed up I couldn't see out of my widshield for a second or two. With the STS turbo system in place, whould this situation cause me a problem? I would hate to spend thousands of dollars on a performance product and be afraid to drive around in the rain.
Also do I understand this correctly. For the system to fit on a stock H2, you bend brackets, cut rock rails, etc. Was this sysytem not designed to fit in a H2? I always thought if something was designed for a particular use, it should fit without any additional modification. A stock STS system should fit a stock H2 without additional modification. You should not have to make it fit, it should fit when you buy it. Forgive me if my questions are rudimental. But it sounds a little like the STS H2 turbo system is not quite ready for mass production and distribution. Still has development issues for its designed use.
I'm intrigued by the STS turbo system, but there are so many issues.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Lean Machine:
How susceptible is the STS Turbo Sysytem setup to water? If I run my H2 through an automated car wash and the undercarriage is washed with jets of water shooting straight up, could this cause water to be sucked up through the filter with this system in place? During heavy rain down pours, several streets near my house can't handle all of the water. I have driven down these streets during these down pours. Near the street gutters, the water just stands. I have hit these spots and so much water splashed up I couldn't see out of my widshield for a second or two. With the STS turbo system in place, whould this situation cause me a problem? I would hate to spend thousands of dollars on a performance product and be afraid to drive around in the rain.
Also do I understand this correctly. For the system to fit on a stock H2, you bend brackets, cut rock rails, etc. Was this sysytem not designed to fit in a H2? I always thought if something was designed for a particular use, it should fit without any additional modification. A stock STS system should fit a stock H2 without additional modification. You should not have to make it fit, it should fit when you buy it. Forgive me if my questions are rudimental. But it sounds a little like the STS H2 turbo system is not quite ready for mass production and distribution. Still has development issues for its designed use.
I'm intrigued by the STS turbo system, but there are so many issues. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I have the kit on my H2. I too run my rig through a car wash with the engine running and never had a problem. A simple splash guard would insure you of no problems. STS may be working on something like that. You do have to cut a bit of the rock rail bracket in one place to accomodate the pipe. No big deal. Other than that it's a straight forward installation and I love mine.

Ken looking into water/methanol injection now. See several I like. I have a forced induction guy who likes to use small amount of nitrous for cooling fuel and nitrous never gets into the cylinder as far as enough to get any power from it. Going to look at that but, most I have visited with likes the W/M injection.
The nitrous would be simpler to use so will give it a serious look. Set it up with bottle etc. and inject nitrous at WOT just like W/M.
TAZ