<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DennisAJC:
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>Some has to photoshop tower's face onto that one.

lol! Talk about some here proceeding from a number of false assumptions....

No good deed will go unpunished.

Thanks for the trip report....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
lol! Talk about some here proceeding from a number of false assumptions....

No good deed will go unpunished.

Thanks for the trip report.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I just want to see some pics and the names of the trails he went on. What are you talking about?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Sorta smells like BS to me. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> Come on Tower. Pictures tell a thousand stories. You don't honestly expect us.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">... If you know it was a 4+ run, you had to know the name of the trail. Also, he said he thinks... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

(However, The Timco/Dennis Photos were brilliant and very funny...)

Tower:

I have a question. What was Mr. Burk's view of the Hummer H2? Did he say?

I am thinking of going to his Anza Borrego trip in November....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by DennisAJC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by timgco:
I found one of the "4+++ trail" Tower ran while in Moab. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

</div></BLOCKQUOTE>
here you go ShaggyZr2

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
lol! Talk about some here proceeding from a number of false assumptions....

No good deed will go unpunished.

Thanks for the trip report.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You are one stupid loser. "trip report?" What trip report? We have asked about a "trip report" repeatedly but all we've gotten is the run-around. Your nonsensical one-liners is about as witty as wipers on a goat's butt.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You are one stupid loser. "trip report?" What trip report? We have asked about a "trip report" repeatedly but all we've gotten is the run-around. Your nonsensical one-liners is about as witty as wipers on a goat's butt. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wow, "Stupid Loser" that's really a good one.

I found Tower's impressions and overviews of his experience entertaining and informative.

The information on Mr. Burk's 4x4 trip offerings (via his web site) was appreciated and used.

If his efforts are not good enough for you, maybe its time for you to get off your fat ass and file your own trip report?

Your continuing false assumptions and accusations while amusing, are really irreverent.

damn....

Hey Alec...does that trail have an off-camber rocky section? Because if it does I think I have been there before. It is really intense isnt it?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
Your continuing false assumptions and accusations while amusing, are really irreverent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>No, actually they are not. First please explain what false assumptions I have made and any accusations I have laid. If it's that you are a stupid loser, well that has been well documented by you.

As far as anything being irreverent, to receive reverence, you have to have credibility and respect first.

Alac:

I was wondering when you would "pop" up.

At any rate, Tower's first post was focused on what Mr. Burk Offered...So the subject seemed to me to be Mr. Burk's services and what a good time Tower and his companion had. True?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">... If you know it was a 4+ run, you had to know the name of the trail. Also, he said he thinks... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is a good example of your BS. No, you don't "Had to know" the name. Give me a break.

Notwithstanding, you are now going to tell me what I think? lol...

Hart,

Never had any beef with you before but you need to shut that pie hole of yours.

I'm sure you would not appreciate someone lying to you about their abilities to later put yourself and your family/friends in danger. Unfortunately this was the case with Tower and his credibility about anything has been in question since.

Tower I have no doubt is a good person with a generous heart. But he has issues with his ego.

Instead of clearly admiting his "INEXPERIENCE" and "EXTREME FEAR" during our last Moab trip. He displayed incredibly idiotic behavior on the trails ENDANGERING some of the group members.

It was obvious Tower was desperately trying to maintain his "RESCUE MAN" status repeatedly ignoring other members warnings and guidance. Later on having an excuse for every numerous incident involving him.

There is no room for that kind of crap with our group of friends and for the type of wheeling we do. Know it alls are fine. Just be prepared to back your BS.

There. I said it. But I think it had to be said.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">... If you know it was a 4+ run, you had to know the name of the trail. Also, he said he thinks... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is a good example of your BS. No, you don't "Had to know" the name. Give me a break.

Notwithstanding, you are now going to tell me what I think? lol... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You had to ride the short bus to school didn't you. How would you ever know the trail classification if you didn't get the information from somewhere legitimate. How would somewhere legitimate list trails and their difficulty ratings without naming them or otherwise differentiating the trails.

Oh, I guess we are to assume that someone on one of their first trips on the trails can then provide the trail ratings himself.

Just plain stupid.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
Your continuing false assumptions and accusations while amusing, are really irreverent. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Pot, kettle, black?

****ing idiot. You are the one that makes stupid assumptions and lays false accusations and lies about crap. Or do you not remember accusing me of "hacking" your personal computer.

Greetings Dennis:

Thank you for your thoughts. Let me offer this:

I know Towers ego, because I have been the unwilling recipient of the same. However, this does not excuse the implications that he did not go or, he was somehow a liar or giving "BS", or his information did not rise to the level of a Pulitzer for Journalism.

If this happened to you, I would be the first to stand up and say so, if it were not true.

It is my current viewpoint that the main subject of Tower's Topic was Mr. Burk's 4x4 offerings. Secondary were the impressions of the course Mr. Burk offered., and a recommendation to try it out.

Sorry, but I enjoyed his post, valued the information, and I believe he was truthful. If you feel these viewpoints warrant the Paragoon treatment, then fine I respectfully disagree.

However, I found the Courage Photos tasteful and very funny, and all in good fun.

I just hope Tower's "ego" does not prevent him from posting future topics here...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">You had to ride the short bus to school didn't you. How would you ever know the trail classification if you didn't get the information from somewhere legitimate </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Here is a good example of what a mental midget you are. Why don't you try to put some flesh and blood on Tower? He is Human, right?

I can imagine being very excited and a million things running through my mind as you start out. I can imagine Burk yelling out that the next stop is a 4++ trail, and with all the excitement and things going on, you did not register the name of the trail. Plausible? You bet.

Have any of us been on a trail we did not know the name of? Or know the F-ing rating on? You bet.

You are one cruel, sad (and wrong) dude.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Or do you not remember accusing me of "hacking" your personal computer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No I don't. Can you please send me the link? Or, are you the one in outer space?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
Here is a good example of what a mental midget you are. Why don't you try to put some flesh and blood on Tower? He is Human, right?

I can imagine being very excited and a million things running through my mind as you start out. I can imagine Burk yelling out that the next stop is a 4++ trail, and with all the excitement and things going on, you did not register the name of the trail. Plausible? You bet.

Have any of us been on a trail we did not know the name of? Or know the F-ing rating on? You bet.

You are one cruel, sad (and wrong) dude. </div></BLOCKQUOTE><BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by tower:
We did some 4+ runs. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Comprehend much? He didn't say, "I think we might have....."

Sorry, it's not plausible at all. I simply asked the name of the trails. He made some **** up and posted BS pictures. All a few of us wanted was where he went so we would know. He could have simply called "Burk" and had him "yell" the names of the trails to him over the phone.

So, he goes back and tells everyone in the world to see that he was on 4+ trails but doesn't say what they are and the only "plausible" explanation you can offer is that his trail guide blurted it out on the radio with no other efforts at explaning what you did. What's the point of even posting that you did 4+ trails if you can't offer what trails they are?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Or do you not remember accusing me of "hacking" your personal computer </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No I don't. Can you please send me the link? Or, are you the one in outer space? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Why don't you ask Jason for it. You cried to him enough times about it.

[quote]Originally posted by Hart1:

Have any of us been on a trail we did not know the name of? Or know the F-ing rating on? You bet.
QUOTE]

NEVER, not once! I have always researched EVERY single trail I have been on. To go out and start a trail without this intel can be very dangerous, not to mention a risk to your life and others around you. have been luck to meet up with this group to go out and run these trails in CO and UT.

HArt, I hope you practice this more often. The privalage of off raoding is also a responsability. Being safe is my first priority... even though I'm not a "certified ego inlfated rescue guy."

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Sorry, it's not plausible at all. I simply asked the name of the trails. He made some **** up and posted BS pictures. All a few of us wanted was where he went so we would know. He could have simply called "Burk" and had him "yell" the names of the trails to him over the phone. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Thanks for proving my point.

I do not share your negativity and pessimism about people. Its not in my nature.

If my only crime is not agreeing with you, I plead guilty.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">NEVER, not once! I have always researched EVERY single trail I have been on. To go out and start a trail without this intel can be very dangerous, not to mention a risk to your life and others around you. have been luck to meet up with this group to go out and run these trails in CO and UT. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may be the exception to the rule. I don't know. We should do a poll, a good question is raised.

What if you are with an Expert Guide like Tower was? Would you still do all that mapping?

You are a better person than me or the 4x4 group(s) I hang with. It is fun to explore and hit the unknown...Does this fact make you right and me "wrong"? Or, should one now be subjected to ridicule for not knowing the name of a trail or rating?

Also, I 4x4 Mexico a lot, and without the benefit of 4x4 type maps (they just don't exist for much of Baja)...This won't stop me from going.

However, my outlook on this aspect may need adjustment, thanks for the powerful points you have made....

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Personally I have never run a Moab 4+ trail that I did not know the name of. Again have you run any 4+ trails in Moab Hart? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Sorry to say I have not. I would like to, one day...

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why don't you ask Jason for it. You cried to him enough times about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A dodge? It was you and not Jason that made this claim, put up or....

hart1,
No one is questioning Tower about whether he went on this trip or not. No one has questioned his opinion that Burkes course is worthwhile. What has been questioned are his comments about the trails he ran.

Let me put it this way, if you came on this forum and said you won a MILLON dollars you better believe someone (Me) would ask to see a scan of the lottery ticket. Upon your failure to produce such ticket you better believe you'd get pounded on.

As others have stated here if your going to BS be prepared to back it up. Regardless of the reason Tower still has not produced additional images to back up his claims (as he said he would)

Do people get excited and forget to notice where they are or where they are going, especially when its one of there first times out? You bet. That is not in question. But since he was in a class along with other students there had to have been plenty of time to notice the little things and take pictures along the way. Even if it was a solo trip with Burke, Towers and or his co-pilot I'm willing to bet were given info about where they were going, what trails they would be running, how to get in contact with Burke if separated that sort of thing and if by chance that info wasn't passed on this course isn't something that anyone needs to take. With that assumption in place Tower should be able to answer some simple questions about his trip, like which 4+ trails did you run...

Tower hasn't received anything out of the ordinary by the folks of the forum. You've been around long enough to know you need a tough skin if your going to dish out crap like Tower has in the past.

Tower is a big boy and if he allowed all of this to get to him and it precludes him from posting in the future, well then he will be missed because along with his BS he has on pervious posts offered up useful information.



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
Greetings Dennis:

Thank you for your thoughts. Let me offer this:

I know Towers ego, because I have been the unwilling recipient of the same. However, this does not excuse the implications that he did not go or, he was somehow a liar or giving "BS", or his information did not rise to the level of a Pulitzer for Journalism.

If this happened to you, I would be the first to stand up and say so, if it were not true.

It is my current viewpoint that the main subject of Tower's Topic was Mr. Burk's 4x4 offerings. Secondary were the impressions of the course Mr. Burk offered., and a recommendation to try it out.

Sorry, but I enjoyed his post, valued the information, and I believe he was truthful. If you feel these viewpoints warrant the Paragoon treatment, then fine I respectfully disagree.

However, I found the Courage Photos tasteful and very funny, and all in good fun.

I just hope Tower's "ego" does not prevent him from posting future topics here... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have done 2 4+ trails in Moab and 1 4.

Once you start doing trails at that level you can't help but know the names. 4 and 4+ trails are something even the most humble 4-wheeler wants to brag about, so someone with the ego the size of an H2 owner would never do a 4+ without knowing ever detail possible so they could brag about it later. It just doesnt happen. I can see why you wouldnt care about names when driving down dirt roads in Baja, but once you granduate to real trails you will understand what I am talking about.

Baja? Are you kidding there are more topographical maps of the area of Baja then almost any place in the world. Perhaps you've heard of the Baja 1000? You best do a little research...

Yes you always map the route for your self. No exceptions.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">NEVER, not once! I have always researched EVERY single trail I have been on. To go out and start a trail without this intel can be very dangerous, not to mention a risk to your life and others around you. have been luck to meet up with this group to go out and run these trails in CO and UT. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

You may be the exception to the rule. I don't know. We should do a poll, a good question is raised.

What if you are with an Expert Guide like Tower was? Would you still do all that mapping?

You are a better person than me or the 4x4 group(s) I hang with. It is fun to explore and hit the unknown...Does this fact make you right and me "wrong"? Or, should one now be subjected to ridicule for not knowing the name of a trail or rating?

Also, I 4x4 Mexico a lot, and without the benefit of 4x4 type maps (they just don't exist for much of Baja)...This won't stop me from going.

However, my outlook on this aspect may need adjustment, thanks for the powerful points you have made.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Hart1:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Why don't you ask Jason for it. You cried to him enough times about it. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

A dodge? It was you and not Jason that made this claim, put up or.... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>So you are denying it?

Bejeeezuuuus! Alec!!!

I don't need anymore proof than that!

Ha Ha, big mistake Alec, I am bored tonight.