Yeah! Gonna be great! Getting stuck and then sweating up a storm. Watchout for desert colored H1s

I’ve been wheeling for a long time, have had a lot of 4x4’s from a variety of manufacturers, work in the auto industry and have seen a bunch of broken differentials. I’m not anti Hummer and or pro Jeep in fact as I mentioned the Dana 30 (and Dana 35) are probably not up to any type of hard wheeling with larger tires even when upgraded.

You are correct defective gear's in a Dana 60 or what ever can cause a failure. From what I have read we are all guessing what caused the problem, at this point it‘s unknown why they broke.

As I said before the front differential in my opinion is rather small for extreme four wheeling in a 4900 lb vehicle with 33”+ tires and a 55:1+ crawl ratio. Which is why I am considering an H2 or H1. Not that they don’t break, they do.

Pulling a driveline and half shafts is no big deal but I would still rather replace a tie rod. BTW I was not referring to replacing a tie rod on an SAS H3 or saying I was going to do one. I’m sure some off road shops will be or already are working on that. I was saying that I am thinking of getting an H2 or H1 and that I would rather bent a tie rod than blow a diff.

As for the type of terrain they were on when the diff’s broke I’ve been to Moab, in fact my first 4x4 trip with the H3 was to Moab June of 05. I’ve not been on the Golden Stairs but have heard about the difficulty and am sure you could break just about anything on that obstacle. I’m certain the H3 can go off road a bunch and never have a problem. I’ve been on a bunch of trails in AZ, CO, UT and ID with out incident. I'm not anti H3, I love mine!

From all accounts you can count on your fingers and maybe toes how many times this has occured throughout all of testing and the thousands and thousands of vehicles that are out on the road now. If it was a stress reason, it's likely you would see the rings shattering. With the type of damage occuring it leads to a flaw in the gear itself.

This was not a grenading of the diff, this was spinning teeth off and is a completely different animal than what is normally seen.

A Dana 60 up front won't make any difference if the gears aren't properly hardened due to some impurity in the process.

I will promise you this. You do a SAS and get into other mods to do wheeling and you WILL be stranded because you are going to break something. It's just the nature of wheeling and you don't have the R&D budget that GM does to figure out what works and what doesn't at the cost of breaking things.

Blowing the front diff does not end your day. If you can do a SAS and fix a tie rod then you should be able to pull half shafts and the front driveline and drive it out in rear drive only. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

If mine broke when I think it did, I was doing the same thing. Only difference was I was on a dirt/gravel ledge, not on slickrock.

BTW, I got my truck last July, around the same time as Bebe and Neo. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How many miles do you all have on your trucks? I got mine on August 1st and am at 19000 miles. Seeing a pattern? I haven't been offroad since Tellico...but the noises started after that....hummmm...? How can I check the build date?

Why do you think something in the steering will blow befor something in the driveline? While there is a realtionship, I've seen H2 diffs blow with vehicles with stock tie rods and there was no stress on them at all. Likewise, the H3 tie rods are hardly beefy, and they did not blow instead of the diffs.

The concept that the tie rod is a pressure relief valve for the drivetrain is a false one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


From what I read an H2 bent 3 tie rods and two different H3's broke differentials. Not saying one would go before the other just the difference in the experience they had with two different vehicles on the same obstacle.

I totally agree. There IS a general issue with the drivetrain strength. I was standing right there and I couldn't believe it when I saw what happened. Bebe and Neo hardly gave it any gas before I started hearing that ugly sound of the teeth breaking off. Especially Neo - he wasn't even up the part of the steps where both his front and rear were against ledges! Only his back wheels were pressed against the ledge when a little torque shattered everything.

Bebe was fully pressed against two ledges - both front and rear wheels. She had tried it a couple of times, and it snapped around the 3rd attempt. She was being very careful and I was getting on her about needing MORE acceleration. Ironically, when I was telling her about needing more momentum she said "I'm just trying not to break my truck". 30 seconds later....Snap.

Something must be done to beef up those diffs. If not, I would not wheel Golden Spike with an H3 again unless I planned in advance to winch up the H3's over the obstacles requiring serious torque.

Why do you think something in the steering will blow befor something in the driveline? While there is a realtionship, I've seen H2 diffs blow with vehicles with stock tie rods and there was no stress on them at all. Likewise, the H3 tie rods are hardly beefy, and they did not blow instead of the diffs.

The concept that the tie rod is a pressure relief valve for the drivetrain is a false one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


From what I read an H2 bent 3 tie roads and two different H3's broke differentials. Not saying one would go before the other just the difference in the experience they had with two different vehicles on the same obstacle. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>The H2 did not bend 3 tie rods on Golden Stairs. It was on the entire trip that day, that at best is a 9 hour trail day of hard wheeling. Golden Stairs is just one short obstacle where the 2 H3s spun the ring gears.

Huge difference.

One other thing i noticed about the H3s is that they have NOISY rear diffs. At trail stops, I kept hearing noise that sounded like radio static coming from Bebe's rig. I had thought it was her CB and the squelch was turned up t0o high until she informed me that H3 rear diffs were very noisy. It was amazing how loud that rear diff sounds while just sitting there in park!

And....per Rox's recent posts in the Moab picture thread it looks like there is something else going with her entire steering configuration. That might have caused the fluke of 3 tie rods busting on the same trail.

I totally agree. There IS a general issue with the drivetrain strength. I was standing right there and I couldn't believe it when I saw what happened. Bebe and Neo hardly gave it any gas before I started hearing that ugly sound of the teeth breaking off. Especially Neo - he wasn't even up the part of the steps where both his front and rear were against ledges! Only his back wheels were pressed against the ledge when a little torque shattered everything.

Bebe was fully pressed against two ledges - both front and rear wheels. She had tried it a couple of times, and it snapped around the 3rd attempt. She was being very careful and I was getting on her about needing MORE acceleration. Ironically, when I was telling her about needing more momentum she said "I'm just trying not to break my truck". 30 seconds later....Snap.

Something must be done to beef up those diffs. If not, I would not wheel Golden Spike with an H3 again unless I planned in advance to winch up the H3's over the obstacles requiring serious torque. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>It's looking like this is not systemic problem. Already, it appears that some ring gears can possibly make it through the system into the front of the trucks without proper hardening for the harder type wheeling that Golden Spike requires.

I'm betting that you could take 2 others through there, under the same setup and conditions and not experience that same problem. I can also bet that GM is all over this right now and have even seen the pictures of the Neo's diff since a failure like this is so uncommon. It might fall back on trying to figure out in AAM's process, what could have occured to allow for the metal to not properly cure.

It literally sounded like you had a radio on that was not tuned to station - sounded exactly like radio static. No rythmic vibration sound, just static sound. Bebe said something to the tune of "all the H3s diffs sound like this". Apparently it's a known thing. ?

And....per Rox's recent posts in the Moab picture thread it looks like there is something else going with her entire steering configuration. That might have caused the fluke of 3 tie rods busting on the same trail. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I am most assured of that. I honestly don't think soft shocks could cause the tie rods to bend that many times in one day. Unless she was wheel-hopping every time. Something had to be off, and it could possibly be a damaged centerlink or something.

I don't know.....that seems like too great a coincidence that both trucks would have the same metallurgic problem, both would experience the same effect on the exact same obstacle, etc.

I was standing next to the truck only on the 2nd tie rod break. Rox will admit that she deserved that one. She got to the top and I was yelling "STOP" as her rig started to bounce. She back off a second too late and and BOOM, busted tie rod. But by the third one......something was definitely wrong with rig. She barely started crawling up an a ledge and it snapped without any sort of bouncing.

I don't know.....that seems like too great a coincidence that both trucks would have the same metallurgic problem, both would experience the same effect on the exact same obstacle, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, I really, really don't like coincidences and I agree. But there might be a relationship to the two trucks through the front ring/pinions because their build dates are fairly close together.

Not knowing the entire process at the gear manufacturer, it's really hard to speculate further. But they are very into this potential problem and if it was systemic then more than the handful that have shown up would likely have occured.

I have to also question why Golden Stairs. I wonder if the front diffs heated up from the hard wheeling up to the stairs and that changed it's properties some. Undoubtedly, some of the other days would have stressed the diff as much as the stairs did at that time.

I don't know.....that seems like too great a coincidence that both trucks would have the same metallurgic problem, both would experience the same effect on the exact same obstacle, etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Well, I really, really don't like coincidences and I agree. But there might be a relationship to the two trucks through the front ring/pinions because their build dates are fairly close together.

Not knowing the entire process at the gear manufacturer, it's really hard to speculate further. But they are very into this potential problem and if it was systemic then more than the handful that have shown up would likely have occured.

I have to also question why Golden Stairs. I wonder if the front diffs heated up from the hard wheeling up to the stairs and that changed it's properties some. Undoubtedly, some of the other days would have stressed the diff as much as the stairs did at that time. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

For some reason, the Stairs claim Hummer axles. We broke a halfshaft on Wednesday when tire spin/hookup occurred. Dan Mick told me once that more axles and t/cases are claimed on that obstacle than any other on the Spike.

Dave

thanks dave , it was a great expierience to wheel with you .

would it be a councidence if a thousand jeeps went thru and 150 busted the same part , this is a risk we all take . Dan Mick and Dave speak the real deal about moab .

we werent just hoping curbs at the mall

phil in trucks built up like yours you should make it in 4 hours LOL

Couple tips. Avoid wheel spin on the rocks. If your spinning, your air pressure is too high. Pretend there is a raw egg between your foot and the skinny pedal. Spinning in the dirt does not shock the drive line like it does on the rocks.

A front locker really helps when used correctly.

Switch to high quality synthetic gear oil. Redline is a good choice, and has a broad line up to cover whatever GM calls for. Synthetics will allow the diffs to run cooler, and maintain lubrication in all temps much better than regular gear oils.

As mentioned, increasing Tire diameter can warrant going to a lower gear. There are charts on the net that can help you figure which gear ratio match up correctly.

Yukon gears are Randy's house brand, which means the box may contain gears from several manufacturers. The could be Dana (OEM, good stuff), US Gear (Excellent Aftermarket), etc.

Stay away from Genuine Gear, it's junk.

Lastly, keep in mind, that once you start really offroading, you will find the week links quickly. Not many current 4x4's are really bullet proof anymore like they were in the early 80's.

So, before you start mods, think it through, "Cause and effect". In other words, when you think about changing something, consider how it plays in the overall scheme of things, and make sure the rest of the players are matched.

I can't wait for someone to go for it on an h3 and put a Solid axle in front, Springover the rear, move the low hanging rear shocks, etc. H3's are definitely the right size for all trails!

It literally sounded like you had a radio on that was not tuned to station - sounded exactly like radio static. No rythmic vibration sound, just static sound. Bebe said something to the tune of "all the H3s diffs sound like this". Apparently it's a known thing. ? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have not noticed noise like that on mine at all. But I have not been listening for it either. I may get a chance to go off road a bit this morning on my way over to South Park so I will letyou know. I will tryiin 4hi and 4 lo. I donot have a locking differential as far as I know in my five speed.

thanks cranky , bebe should be home anytime now

I agree completely especially since there are now three since HI's has to be replaced. I would really like to see some investigation into this since the three vehicles that I know of with this problem were all purchase right at the same time. Of course any one of them could have been sitting on the lot for a while but I really think this needs to be looked into. Based on VIN numbers I would think it would be fairly easy to check the lot numbers for the gears in each truck. If the lot numbers are all different then that probably counts out a hardening issue but if they are all the same it would narrow down the possible problems in my book.

I agree completely especially since there are now three since HI's has to be replaced. I would really like to see some investigation into this since the three vehicles that I know of with this problem were all purchase right at the same time. Of course any one of them could have been sitting on the lot for a while but I really think this needs to be looked into. Based on VIN numbers I would think it would be fairly easy to check the lot numbers for the gears in each truck. If the lot numbers are all different then that probably counts out a hardening issue but if they are all the same it would narrow down the possible problems in my book. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I promise, it's being investigated.

Cranky Steve:

I'm agree with you.

PARAGON:

"The H2 did not bend 3 tie rods on Golden Stairs. It was on the entire trip that day, that at best is a 9 hour trail day of hard wheeling. Golden Stairs is just one short obstacle where the 2 H3s spun the ring gears.

Huge difference."
________________________________________________
Correct, it's a huge difference! Thanks for setting me straight.

I’ve been off-line for a while (moved to a new house without cable) so I do not know if this has been suggested yet.

Would it be possible to strip a broken front differential down, find the broken teeth and use JB Weld to glue them back on again? I know this probably would be a bad idea for a permanent fix but it might get you off the trail?

This is special, just like your idea of super gluing lug nuts on.

For future reference, fixing vehicles is more of a mechanical thing, and less of an arts & crafts thing </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
So you don't think it will work?

According to their advertising it’s an alternative to welding!!

“Our flagship product, J-B WELD is the world's finest cold-weld compound. It's a remarkably easy, convenient, and inexpensive alternative to welding, soldering, and brazing. J-B WELD is the smart way to repair something ...”

Or are you saying you can’t use a regular welder to re-attach the teeth either?

chances are if you have access to a welder in the field, you've also got access to someone that can pull half-shafts & DS and you can just drive out in 2WD.

I think you'd have just as much luck with bubble gum vs JB weld on ring gears...

OMG, no winky?!?!?! You can't be serious. Have you ever tried to glue anything that broke (that excludes glues carpentry and rubber patches where vulcanization happening)...it never works. If there's enough force to break a [suposedly] homogenous material, then glue's not going to hold it.