Buying new pistol, need advice
 

ok, here's my deal. I have a shotgun, which I use mostly for hunting, but w/slug & 0000 shot works well for home defense (behind the locks and my 2 75# dogs).

What I'm looking for now, is a pistol, something I can carry w/me. I used to have Karr .40 cal w/3.5" barrel. Honestly, I hated it - too short barrel, plus a trigger/double-pull safety. I'm not too interested in home safety, with the dogs & shotgun. If I was, I've but a 15 round .22 w/hollow points - about a good as a home defense pistol as you can find (behind the shotgun).

What I need is a pistol (not revolver, hate 'em), with >6 round clip, with a real safety, with a >4" barrel, that can stop a bear/wolf/cougar/etc. I'll use it mostly for personal protection in my car, but want a single gun for both traveling protection + camping/outdoors. I was in Alaska a couple years ago and ended up 10' from a black bear. Everything worked out, but I have had a run-in w/the shotgun where my brother and I dumped 6 rounds of 4 shot into a small black bear while pheasant hunting near Yakima WA. I never want to be that freaked out again - I want a pistol I trust to take care of that for me. Pull it and shoot, no worries.

Without a bunch of BS about gun safety (I'm comfortable w/guns, been shooting them for 15 years), what's the best gun for my needs under $700? I don't mind used, don't need a laser sight, won't use it for target practice, can shoot quite well under pressure, and just need something with stopping power. Thanks.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Can't go wrong with a nice Glock. Maintenance-free and nice to shoot.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

No no-sense stoppers! get a 45 or 50 cal auto!

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

I love our Glock, but our Taurus PT-945 with Magsafe's will put a real hurtin' on a bear.

I did a short search and didn't find anything negative about the gun, but I'm sure there are some.

Link to forum about it:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=1449

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

I agree with DRTY - it's hard to beat a Glock as an all-around gun. If I had to pick just one handgun for all purposes, I'd probably pick my Glock 27 - it holds ten potent .40 S&W rounds, has a 3.5" barrell, recoils less than any other .40 S&W I have shot (I own 6 of them) yet is smaller than a Walther PPK/S.
Yet, respecting your perceived need for an external safety, semi-auto, and 4"+ barrell, my favorite with those limitations would be this in .40S&W: http://www.hecklerkoch-usa.com/index...tNumber=704501.
I've had one since 1994. It's worked flawlessly ever since, and shoots better than I do.

Of course, IMO, you'd be crazy to be in many parts of Alaska where the Griz and Brown bear roam with anything less than a .44 Mag revolver. If I were in the Alaska wildernesses, and if I really didn't want to carry a rifle around, I'd probably have one of these: http://www.ruger-firearms.com/Firear...=5505&return=Y in .454 Casull.
The .44 Mag-and-greater semi-autos, while novel are kind of silly IMO.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

I did a lot of research when I bought my pistol for the same reasons. I was doing a lot of backwoods hiking. If you want to stop a bear of any size a .357 or 44 mag is the ticket. Better yet is what I carry now - bear spray.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Be a man. Use a knife.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

If you want to be able to stop a bear the lowest cal you should be looking at is the 45. Period. .40's are great guns with good stopping power, but we are talking about bears not people a bear will require more. Honestly I dont think you need advise about A pistol, but rather (2) pistols. You want one gun to serve for personal protection and extreme circumstances and I dont really think you are going to find a single gun to suit both rolls. But if you only want to buy one gun for both purposes my vote is for a .45.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Well, we be at it again.

No, a .45 is no better for bear than a .40 would be. Simple ballistics. If you stuffed some grains of powder behind that .45, we'd be talking a different story. It's not just only the caliber of the projectile that matters.

Secondly, and going all the way back up to the top. Evldave, you need to seek advice from some professionals. Because your statement about a .22 being as good as any home defense pistol, is, well, just ignorant.

The rest of it, is just silly, IMO.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by PARAGON No, a .45 is no better for bear than a .40 would be. Simple ballistics. If you stuffed some grains of powder behind that .45, we'd be talking a different story.

Exactly. Both calibers can be bought with well-designed bullets of similar weight (the .45 comes in higher weights, such as the 230 gr FMJ, but they are neither the most powerful, nor most effective .45 loads). Thus, the kinetic energy (that's what kills & disrupts things) of these cartridges provides a fair estimate of their stopping power. The most powerful loads most mfrs offer in these two cartridges are a 155 gr load with 447 ft-lbs of energy in the .40 S&W and a 476 ft-lbs 165 gr load in the .45 Auto. 29 extra ft-lbs of energy in a bullet of comparable weight can't possibly make one a big bear killer and one merely a personal defense cartridge. Further, each of the mfrs lists the test barrel for the .40 is as 4" and the test barrel for the .45 as 5" (e.g., compare at http://www.federalcartridge.com/ball...firearm=2&s1=1 ). Going from a 4" to a 5" barrel would likely add about 40 ft/sec of velocity to the .40 load (from 1140 to about 1180), which would yield an energy of 482 ft-lbs for the .40. Thus, it you're shooting the .40 and the .45 out of the same length barrel the .40 probably has MORE energy than the .45. Corbon, is one rare example of a mfr who sells hotter loads. It's most power full .40 puts out 526 ft-lbs out of a 4" barrel and its most powerful .45 puts out 573 ft-lbs from a 5" barrel ( http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/corbon/convjhp.htm ). Again a negligible difference, especially if you even the barrel lengths. And a .357 only puts out from .480 to 570 ft-lbs depending on the load. Thus, I can't see how it's incredibly superior to either the .40 or .45 -- other than that it has the word "magnum" in its name.

A .454 Cassull can hit something with 1,900 ft-lbs of energy in a 7.5" barrel (a .44 mag also puts out about a 1,000 ft-lbs of energy). Either are much preferable to a .40, .45, or .357 when facing a bear of any size. All that being said, I'd much rather have a .40 or a .45 when facing a bear than either (1) nothing at all or (2) some pepper spray.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

If a safety is a requirement, a Tarus or a H&K. Caliber is up to you, but if it is a grizzly, I would use nothng smaller than a S&W .50

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

X2!!!!

Glocks all the way. Get a G23, a nice snappy .40 cal.

I've been shooting Glocks for years and have NEVER, EVER had a jam or misfire.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

You have not shot enough then;) :D

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

wrong!

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

wronger

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

I once had a bear take off running when he read "magnum" on the side of my gun. ;) :D

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

I agree with all the comments so far about bullet weight and power. But your best bet is to rent some pistols at a local range and try different ammo. Accuracy depends on the ammo and how it fits your hand.

I like a SA/DA semi-auto pistol with half-moon sights that fits snug in my hand, unsafes easily and doesn't snag on the draw. Don't care for Glocks and Rugers, but give me a full-size Beretta, dehorned model 1911, or my old EEA .45 and I'm good to go.

For bear-stopping power, load ammo you use and trust, .40 caliber +Ps or higher. When I first bought my EAA Witness .45, I loaded it with +P+ JHPs. Even with the ported barrel, it kicked like a mule and ruined my followup shots. I switched to regular +P and my double-taps improved.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

no need for big calibers... just get more magazines... its fun to unload with multiple mags. :D

they will eventually go down!

BTW, dont wait until he charges. When they stand up start unloading. you get a nice clean shot of the soft side. ;)

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Fvck it go with a Wildey .475 Mag:eek:

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

I want a bullet that'll bounce around in the criminal's body for a little while.:D

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

You're best bet for stopping a bear is bear spray. For killing a bear, a .44mag is the minimum you would want. Just aim between the nose and eyes. Anything smaller, and you may have better luck trying to shoot out its teeth so the mauling won't hurt as much.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

wow!!! Where do you drive?:D

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

sorry couldn't resist. I have a desert eagle 44 with interchangeable barrels to 50 cal. semiauto and will stop most things living, dead, manmade..well you get the picture.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

I would agree that a Glock would be a good choice for your needs. Take a look at the model 30. It is a 45 with 4 inch barrel/10 shot magazine. It weighs in at 24 oz, so it would not be too bad to tote with you.
I have shot thousands of rounds through my duty issue model 22 (40 cal) with no problems. The only time I have seen this weapon misfeed is when the shooter "limp wrists", not having a firm grip on the weapon. I have seen this happen with other autos also.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

oh, I'm gonna have to disagree. A .22 w/15 round clip & hollow points at close range (inside my house, once they get past the locks and the dogs) will easy be the best pistol for simple home defense. I've shot a lot of pistols (not as much as probably many of you, but everything from a .22 to a .50 cal that my old boss had) and the easiest to aid and shoot repeatedly is a .22 - the lowest kick = the highest repeatability. Don't get me wrong, in a single shot setup, a bigger gun would be better, but if I'm in a situation where I'm shooting a gun to save my life, I want repeatability and lots of bullets. I can't guarantee my aim (no matter how much practice) when some crazy fiknut is in my house, has made it past the alarm, the locks, the dogs, and I left the shotgun in the safe. My 2 cents...:)

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Sorry, I don't have your expertise in killing 'wildlife' with a blade. I'll leave that to you:)

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

That's a good idea, I've got a bunch of target shooting friends. I'll just borrow there's (done it before, but just for goofing around).

[quote=I like a SA/DA semi-auto pistol with half-moon sights that fits snug in my hand, unsafes easily and doesn't snag on the draw. Don't care for Glocks and Rugers, but give me a full-size Beretta, dehorned model 1911, or my old EEA .45 and I'm good to go. [/quote]

Won't get a Glock - too light. I light a heavy gun, the glocks feel a little too plasticy. Might just be me - haven't shot one before, but I've started looking and haven't found one I like.


[quote=For bear-stopping power, load ammo you use and trust, .40 caliber +Ps or higher. When I first bought my EAA Witness .45, I loaded it with +P+ JHPs. Even with the ported barrel, it kicked like a mule and ruined my followup shots. I switched to regular +P and my double-taps improved.[/quote]

don't know what any of that +p+jhp means, but my Karr kicked like a bish and I hated 2 shots in a row, I could never bring it back on target for the 2nd shot. What is a +jhp load?

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

There is some validity to the above. It was one of the guns recommended by a couple of local gun shops here when I was asking questions about home defense. The nice thing about HOLLOW POINT 22 is it's unlikely the travel through walls and hit the kids in adjoining rooms.

I have two guns that are loaded near my bed a 357 revolver and a auto 22 with hollow points.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

I've seen bear in Alaska, Washington, Montana, and Wyoming, all in person, most in a car. I was once on a bike trip in Alaska, and got caught up between a cow moose & her calf. Scared the crap out of me, but I got out safely.

I've been backpacking a lot more than usualy this year, and next year am planning 2-3 longer backpacking trips, all in bear country (Glacier, North Cascades, British Columbia). Rather than just carry around a gun, I want to take some time to get used to it and shoot it regularly to get familiar with it before I need it. For my house, I've got a shotgun, I don't need a pistol, the only reason for this gun is in the absolute worst-case scenario. If that ever happens, I don't want a pussy poser gun (I considered the Karr a poser gun).

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

My friend's son is a Navy seal officer and I'm told he carries a Glock in 45 cal. Since he can choose whatever he wants, enough said about whether Glocks are a good choice.

However, he isn't shooting at bears. Unless you have some experience shooting at moving game (especially dangerous game that is moving AT YOU), it seems to me that stopping power is your most important value. That means at least 44 magnum. Also, I don't think you want a pistol with a safety on it that you need to work when you only have moments to get a shot or two off at a bear. There are no small 44 magnum pistols to my knowledge.

Given all of the above, my humble recommendation would be to buy a Smith & Wesson 329PD. It has a 4" barrel, scandium alloy frame, and a titanium cylinder -- -- making it the lightest 44 Magnum on the planet. That way, you won't be discouraged to carry it in the bush.

Then I would spend another $100 (more or less) and have a first class gunsmith polish the mating surfaces of the revolver's action and take a piece out of the trigger spring -- -- this will lighten up the trigger pull.

I'd also have a ramp front sight installed (if it doesn't already have one) so it pulls from a holster smoothly. Then I'd get a good leather holster (I think you can draw from leather easier than ballistic nylon).

If you're shooting at bear, I'd buy three boxes of PROLOAD .44 Magnum 270 grain "GAME STOPPER" JSP bullets (that's 60 rounds) and I'd shoot two boxes at the range.

Then, I'd practice pulling the gun from the holster and shooting it EMPTY at least 20 or 30 times. Then I'd try it 15 times with live ammo. This will leave you with 5 bullets. Load the gun with an empty chamber under the hammer.

If everything works well and feels good at that point, I'd say you have a gun you can stake your life on for the next 30 to 40 years -- -- provided you shoot it occasionally to stay in practice.

I also recommend getting other opinions, but those are mine.

Good luck and pray you never have to use it against anything but paper.

George SSSS

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Been hunting birds for almost 20 years - shooting small-moving fast objects doesn't bother me much. I'm moving to a place that's 10 minutes from an area I can shoot anytime I want (forest land), so practice will come regularly. I will try out the 329PD, does it come w/a 4.5" barrel? I prefer something a little longer. Price might become an issue, I've only got about $700 for the gun. Thanks for the input

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Smith & Wesson are definitely pricey -- -- they're just what I'm familiar with. I know Ruger makes some fine 44 mags, and their pricing is more reasonable. Ruger revolvers are known for their robust frames that hold up well under heavy loads. I took a look at their website and saw the Redhawk RH-445 with a 5 1/2" barrel that looks like a really nice package. MSRP under $700. Probably get it for less if you look around. I see they also have leather holsters made specifically for their guns. Very nice.

IMHO, a Ruger would be a rock solid choice in 44 mag.

Get other opinions, but those are mine.

Hope this helps.

George SSSS

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Sorry, there is absolutely no validity to it.

I'm sorry, sitting idle while someone makes dumb remarks is not going to happen.

Someone breaking into your home will at the very least have adrenaline rushing, shoot them (or at them) and they will have a huge adrenaline rush. A .22 caliber just does not contain enough mass to do much to the human body unless you get some lucky hit.

There is a reason that it is against the law in some states to hunt large game with small caliber weapons, such as the .22. It does nothing but injure.

I continue to be amazed at people who will rationalize putting their life in jeopardy. You, literally, are better off with a knife than a .22.

I implore you to seek a professional's opinion, not a gun clerk, a real professional. On top of that, there is tons of information on the web about home protection and I'll doubt you'll find one valid one that suggests one utilize the .22 as a home defense caliber.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

What do you consider a professional? A cop? How about a SWAT team member (and ex Marine Sniper)? One of my poker buddies is a detective on the local police force (and son of the captain), another guy I've shot pistols with is a SWAT team member. Both say a .22 with lots of bullets can be better in a panic situation than a larger pistol with limited shots and a lower possibility of 2nd shot landing because of the kick.

So who's experts are better?:rolleyes: Are police considered professionals? I'm not overly concerned one way or the other (I have a shotgun, which I think we can all agree is the best home defense weapon). I'm more interested in stopping power out in the woods, where I know a rifle would be best, but I'm not backpacking w/a rifle unless I'm specifically out to shoot stuff.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Well, it's true I was relying directly on what I was told - but both were a little more than a store "clerk".

The "logic" made sense to me. I was basically told this. First they both recommended shotguns as the best home defense. When I insisted on a pistol they both asked about my living situation, Did I have children, where they sleeping on the same floor etc. They asked how much I would practice shooting.

A 22 with hollow points holding lots of rounds was as close to a shotgun in pistol version. Use the spray and prey method. :D Factor in the panic thing.

On the off chance a a round made it to one of the children it could only be a fragment of a small bullet and unlikely to do fatal damage.

I never suggested a 22 has much stopping power with a single round.

BTW - I bought the .357 that day.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Being a law enforcement officer, in no way, entitles one to being a Home Defense nor a handgun professional.

You are ignorant, want to continue to be ignorant and no one else can change that but you. If that .22 is so effective, why not take it with you to stop the bears? Your reply to that question is the same reason why you don't plan to employ the .22 as a home defense weapon. It's simply ignorance to suggest that it is, in any manner, effective. The capacity is a moot point. You can purchase a .45ACP which will hold 15 rounds. Recoil is a joke, if that is your reasoning. Simple practice will provide the necessary skill to employ the use of the handgun without it becoming an issue.

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

When I replied the first time, I should have just said, biggest cal you can find, (and mags to go with----for bear.) I've harvested Bear with Rifle and bow and arrow, never with pistol. I carry a 44 redhawk in bear country. I also handload, and make some serious thumpers! But more important than all that--and the type of pistol you have--It's when that BEAR is within a few yards and less! MAD!, Injured, guarding a cub, or spooked, Or! ---let's just say, most will just piss themselfs!--so the less you have to figure out, (safety lever, chambering) the better the chance of firing a round if needed. Most of time, bears will run, And crackin a couple into the ground if needed, usually gets the same reaction.

Having said that, and wanting an autoloader, the Sig Pro in 40 cal--Bigger if made--not searched---might be a good choice. Single/Double Action auto, no safety lever to mess with, VERY good shooter, and mild recoil compaired to some of my others. jmho :)

Re: Buying new pistol, need advice
 

Dude, you need to calm the fuk down. I'm looking for advice, not an ass-reaming. I've got friends, who know what they are talking about, saying small caliber w/many rounds, with low recoil, is good for home defense (keep pulling the trigger, most will hit). People I know who are willing to have a rational conversation about it sure outweigh some dickwad on the internet who obviously can't have a normal conversation without throwing insults around.