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-   General H3 Discussion (http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=23)
-   -   Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD? (http://www.elcovaforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21409)

aetherH3 10-17-2006 11:43 PM
Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
I'm curious as to why they decided to use an ALL-TIME 4 wheel drive system when they could have used a 2 wheel drive system for normal driving? It would increase gas mileage which would make the H3 more appealing to customers and also bring down the quotas (whatever its called) on the MPG ratings for GMs line up. After all, the H3 was built as a more efficient Hummer. It would also increase engine performance because of less drag. I imagine our H3s would be pretty peppy only having to turn two wheels instead of four. Not that I'm complaining, just wondering.

ROADNOTCA 10-18-2006 12:01 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
The aftermarket will probably have a conversion in a couple years, but yeah, X2.

BlueHUMMERH2 10-18-2006 12:04 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
I'm not sure how I feel. I like having a vehicle in 4WD all the time. But yet 2WD would help the MPG. As long as there was no 2WD only, I couldn't imagine it would be too much a problem.

f5fstop 10-18-2006 12:24 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aetherH3
I'm curious as to why they decided to use an ALL-TIME 4 wheel drive system when they could have used a 2 wheel drive system for normal driving? It would increase gas mileage which would make the H3 more appealing to customers and also bring down the quotas (whatever its called) on the MPG ratings for GMs line up. After all, the H3 was built as a more efficient Hummer. It would also increase engine performance because of less drag. I imagine our H3s would be pretty peppy only having to turn two wheels instead of four. Not that I'm complaining, just wondering.

Because it is a Hummer and Hummers have full-time four-wheel drive. In addition, the extra fuel mileage is not as great as people believe. Even with a part time 4x4, you still have the gears turning creating a drag and producing friction, thus reducing fuel mileage. I was told it would equate to a max of 1 mpg (per some testing).
Drive one without the front prop shaft...you won't notice much of a difference.
Next, someone is going to want a two-wheel drive only H4.:rant:

Desert Dan 10-18-2006 12:37 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Full Time 4x4 should have been an option.

Maybe they did it for safety and to prevent us from spinng the rear tires and getting sideway in the dirt.

ROADNOTCA 10-18-2006 12:48 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f5fstop
Drive one without the front prop shaft...you won't notice much of a difference.
You cannot drive without the front D-shaft because of the torque converter in the T-case. Ask me how I.....

DURAMAX TIM 10-18-2006 01:12 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROADNOTCA
You cannot drive without the front D-shaft because of the torque converter in the T-case. Ask me how I.....

lock it in 4 hi then it'll go.

aetherH3 10-18-2006 01:41 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Cool responses! I'm DEFINITELY NOT suggesting that they should have made an H3 with 2WD ONLY!!!!! I was just wondering why they made it an ALL TIME 4WD. :beerchug:

ROADNOTCA 10-18-2006 01:48 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by DURAMAX TIM
lock it in 4 hi then it'll go.
Ho, look out!:dancingbanana:

Wisha Haddan H3 10-18-2006 02:51 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
I see the full-time 4wd as a huge advantage. Don't know how many times in my part time 4runner or blazer when rear wheel drive didn't cut it. Any ice or slush and I'd fishtail, even with BFG ATs. And you can forget going uphill from a stop if it's icy.

But I can even tell the difference cruising in dry conditions. Fulltime 4wd delivers better control and cornering up in the canyons. Definitely wouldn't give it up for 1 mpg.

f5fstop 10-18-2006 10:51 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROADNOTCA
You cannot drive without the front D-shaft because of the torque converter in the T-case. Ask me how I.....

Duh! Guess I missed the torque converter in the t/case. Could you help me out and tell me which number the torque converter might be?



And might I ask how you know?

ROADNOTCA 10-18-2006 11:34 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f5fstop
Duh! Guess I missed the torque converter in the t/case. Could you help me out and tell me which number the torque converter might be?



And might I ask how you know?
I'm not an expert, so do we get the 40/60 split from a planetary? #203 for eg.?

f5fstop 10-18-2006 04:56 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
More complicated than that, but primarily the differential planetary splits the torque to 40/60; item 231. There is no torque converter in the t/case.

usetosellhummer 10-18-2006 07:53 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
troll:OWNED:

ROADNOTCA 10-18-2006 09:18 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f5fstop
More complicated than that, but primarily the differential planetary splits the torque to 40/60; item 231. There is no torque converter in the t/case.
I think I see. Thats effectively a gear driven 40/60 except its through the chain. Then shifting into 4H moves the shaft, relative to the planetary, to a one-to-one drive(?) I would have thought they would have left street mode open with 50/50 and 4H lock 40/60 for OR.
It would seem to be very easy to design a 2WD select for this T-case.(?)

f5fstop 10-18-2006 09:57 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
It would have been easier to go with a part time full wheel drive setup as used on 1/2 pickup trucks.

ROADNOTCA 10-19-2006 12:26 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f5fstop
It would have been easier to go with a part time full wheel drive setup as used on 1/2 pickup trucks.
Exactly, something America has used almost universaly for decades.
Dropped the front D-shaft, shifted into 4Hlock; steering is lighter, thats for the wife.
It is also,,,,,,,uh,,,,,,,,quicker.....................
thats for me.

f5fstop 10-19-2006 12:28 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROADNOTCA
Exactly, something America has used almost universaly for decades.
Dropped the front D-shaft, shifted into 4Hlock; steering is lighter, thats for the wife.
It is also,,,,,,,uh,,,,,,,,quicker.....................
thats for me.


:popcorn: :confused:

ROADNOTCA 10-19-2006 12:42 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f5fstop
:popcorn: :confused:
:confused:

f5fstop 10-19-2006 10:42 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROADNOTCA
Exactly, something America has used almost universaly for decades.
Dropped the front D-shaft (?), shifted into 4Hlock; steering is lighter, thats for the wife.
It is also,,,,,,,uh,,,,,,,,quicker..................... (You won't gain that much speed with a part time system, if this is what you are implying.thats for me.

I don't understand your message....

ROADNOTCA 10-19-2006 12:57 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by f5fstop
I don't understand your message....
I removed the front drive shaft.

H3.007 10-19-2006 02:13 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
This was an issue that almost prevented me from buying the H3 - but I decided to take the chance. The Explorer Sport (what I traded in for the H3) had the selectable 4WD. Honestly, I can not really see much of a difference in mileage, but then again the Explorer had almost 150,000 miles on it so the mileage wasn't as good as what a new one would have produced.

Regardless, if the research has been done, determining the 1mpg difference between the setups, I don't think I'll be losing any sleep over it. Still, choice is a good selling point and I am not sure I like big brother deciding what is best for me up-front. I always knew when I would need the 4wd...

This is likely an option that may have had underlying liability issues- i.e. some nutsmack sues GM and Hummer for an accident where the driver should have but didn't. :twak:

ROADNOTCA 10-19-2006 02:22 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by H3.007
This was an issue that almost prevented me from buying the H3 - but I decided to take the chance. The Explorer Sport (what I traded in for the H3) had the selectable 4WD. Honestly, I can not really see much of a difference in mileage, but then again the Explorer had almost 150,000 miles on it so the mileage wasn't as good as what a new one would have produced.

Regardless, if the research has been done, determining the 1mpg difference between the setups, I don't think I'll be losing any sleep over it. Still, choice is a good selling point and I am not sure I like big brother deciding what is best for me up-front. I always knew when I would need the 4wd...

This is likely an option that may have had underlying liability issues- i.e. some nutsmack sues GM and Hummer for an accident where the driver should have but didn't. :twak:
Its four screws at the T-case and typical "U-Joint" clamps at the axle. Orientation reference marking is required only at the front joint. Be sure to select 4H lock; it will stay in 4H lock through stop and start. Its a leisurely one hour job. Enjoy.

PARAGON 10-19-2006 03:00 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by H3.007
I am not sure I like big brother deciding what is best for me up-front.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilD
:confused: The government are not deciding what is best for you, you chose to buy a full time 4WD vehicle.

For real. If you don't want a full time 4WD vehicle don't buy a Hummer. It's that simple. Don't freaking whine that you "might" be getting less mileage.

This is has to chalk up there with one of the most absurd threads on elcova. Dropping the driveshaft in an attempt to gain some wistful mileage or any other benefit is in the ranks of the tornado fuel saver. In fact some engineers believe it could cost you in MPG because you will be riding the ring gear on the coast side the whole time which creates more drag (friction).

Point... If you don't want a full-time 4WD vehicle, don't buy one.:confused:

ROADNOTCA 10-19-2006 03:25 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
As for me, I'm not chasing "mileage".:D

Desert Dan 10-19-2006 07:06 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
I think the full time 4x4 may help slightly on dry pavement when the H3 is being pushed hard on turns and mtn roads. The front end seems to help pul it thru the turns.

It definitely helps in the rain.

But heck I'm used to a Jeep with an Anti-Rock front swaybar

Steve - SanJose 10-19-2006 07:58 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Hummer = full time 4wd. Part time 4wd is old school.

S.

PARAGON 10-19-2006 08:44 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by james t kirk
you need help buddy, would you cut your arms off just cause you only need legs most of the time:OWNED:
I did once, just so I could swim like Patrick Duffy in The Man from Atlantis.

PARAGON 10-19-2006 08:57 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROADNOTCA
I would have thought they would have left street mode open with 50/50 and 4H lock 40/60 for OR.

What does this even supposed to mean. If GM wanted a 2wd selectable transfer case, they would have put one in from one of the other lines. Very simple. Since it's a Hummer, it gets full-time 4wd, period.

"left street mode open with 50/50 and 4H lock 40/60 for OR". That just makes no sense. What 4wd vehicle has a split of 40/60 designed in it for off-road and why would it?

aetherH3 10-19-2006 09:49 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
I didn't start this thread to have an argument over it. I was just curious as to why they might have chose Full Time 4wd. I didn't realize that the MPG differences were so negligible. It had turned into a decent discussion... for a while. :lame:

PARAGON 10-19-2006 09:55 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aetherH3
I didn't start this thread to have an argument over it. I was just curious as to why they might have chose Full Time 4wd. I didn't realize that the MPG differences were so negligible. It had turned into a decent discussion... for a while. :lame:

:violin:

PARAGON 10-19-2006 10:10 PM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilD
More importantly, how long would a t-case locked at 40/60 last. Not very long.
shhhhh:shhh:

don't argue

ROADNOTCA 10-20-2006 12:30 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aetherH3
I didn't start this thread to have an argument over it. I was just curious as to why they might have chose Full Time 4wd. I didn't realize that the MPG differences were so negligible. It had turned into a decent discussion... for a while. :lame:
I'm with you.

PARAGON 10-20-2006 03:23 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ROADNOTCA
I'm with you.
You started this thread too?:confused:

RubHer Yellow Ducky 10-20-2006 03:26 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
You will NEVER know the answer since it was a decision made by a panel of people...

SO

Think up questions that CAN be answered...

RYD

PARAGON 10-20-2006 03:29 AM
Re: Why didn't Hummer go with 2WD w/selectable 4WD?
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RubHer Yellow Ducky
You will NEVER know the answer since it was a decision made by a panel of people...

SO

Think up questions that CAN be answered...

RYD
What's the meaning of life?


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