[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by BlueHUMMERH2

Amazing how divided the group is on here. Yet we all drive the same vehicles. MJF, and now this issue.

I still think Kerry is an idiot. So was Dean, and Al Gore. But I think the same about their competitors.

Whoa there, pocket monkey. Don't flatter yourself that you are part of some "group." You obviously are too young and overly-ambitious in your attempt to "fit in" because you have no idea of where you "belong."

It's obvious to others who the fish out of water are here and "your group" doesn't have enough members to be considered a group here.

Dennis doesn't count because he just likes to stir the political sh!t pot much as I do the rest.

Originally Posted by BlueHUMMERH2

I think I was trying to get at the point that if you deny what's happening in the country around you for the "greater good", then this country as we know it is doomed. If you choose to be quiet rather than speak, then who's going to change anything? I don't think anyone should be quiet "for the sake of the troops". That's a strange arguement, because they should know how the people they're fighting for feel. I agree, if they hear only positives, of course the morale will stay up, and that's good for them. That's a winning strategy for sure. But they should know why they're there, in their hearts, and what they're fighting for. If they don't know that, then why did they sign up in the first place? For income? For college? And then Iraq came around, and they got screwed? If you think the news from home would sway their commitment, then you really have a lot to say about the integrity of our troops, don't you? .

You just aren't going to get it because 1) you're too ignorant of life's realities 2) you're too blind by your own political views to see what is RIGHT

What good does it do for anyone, and I mean anyone to voice their dissent to what they feel is an unjust war when they do that in the open, public arena. What does that accomplish and what change does that supply. None. If you as a voter, if you are even registered to vote, want to make a change to policy, you vote for someone that you feel will make a difference and/or call your Congressman and Representative to let THEM know how YOU feel.

For others that really give a damn, since you don't seem to care, lack of morale, kills. It kills the very troops that protect your freedom to say the stupid sh!t you are wanting to say without any concrete basis.

Bringing us, to the point of WHO THE FUCK do you think you are, that you can second guess the President and all of his advisors and every single Senator and Representative that voted in favor of this war who all had, has and will have mounds of more information about the subject than you through the biased media reports.

WHY IN THE FUCK do you think you can make some type of proclamation that could possibly cause death to American troops in combat without having any REAL data on the subject.

Some people should exercise self-censorship.

Originally Posted by BlueHUMMERH2

Certainly Marinehawk, comparing today's events to those of WWII is far-fetched. I merely wished to make the point about facism, and where it comes from. Do I think we'll get there? I don't know. Will our society collapse in 50 years? Some anthropolgists think so. But using military history will always provide the answer that might is right, because only the victorious write the "facts". There is more to culture than militarism however.

I think WWII had a very clear enemy, and it was more B&W. Today, things aren't so clear anymore. And that makes it difficult for some people to figure out what we're doing in the world today and why. Who is evil? What is evil? We're not fighting against a nation, we're fighting against a group of individuals that share a common ideal. They're everywhere. And I think that makes the wars of today far more complicated than some of those in the past.

I'm not trying to be mean here. I'm just stating my opinion. But I get very little respect here anyway, and hardly anyone likes me, so I really don't care what anyone thinks of what I say at this point. I'll continue to post here just the same.

I'm not a liberal extremist, and I'm not a conservative. I'm a moderate liberal. Do I think we need to/should be in Iraq? I am not sure. Do we need to win? YES. I have great respect for the service of our veterans. And I am surprised at how many come out as supporters of war, and how many disagree with such tragedy and death. This war in Iraq is a tragedy, and it has nothing to do with terrorists and weapons of mass destruction. Because we didn't find the latter, and we certainly aren't eliminating the former.

My grandfather is the only member of my family to serve, drafted in WWII. He was sent to Japan following their surrender. His opinion is now completely against violence and the current war. My g/f is a National Guard member. She's a medic. She doesn't like the CIC, and is not happy with what's going on in Iraq, nor are her friends. So I am not isolated from this issue.

That's what you want to call your resume for speaking from experience?

Why don't you go see a recruiter and sign up right now? Why don't you go do something bigger with your life and serve your country and get some real experience?