Impact detected

[Hummer Guy]

I think we may be talking about two different things. After I posted I double checked an on-star pamphlet - It was not a Hummer specific brochure but it didn't make mention that it was only on specially equiped vehicles. Under the services provided it listed: "Advanced Automatic Crash Notification - An advisor can call for help if the vehicle is involved in frontal, rear, or side impact crashes - regardless of airbag deployment." f5 you can probably tell us more about this system - if there aren't sensors, is it something that takes other measurable data and makes assumptions about crashes?

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by Hummer Guy

I think we may be talking about two different things. After I posted I double checked an on-star pamphlet - It was not a Hummer specific brochure but it didn't make mention that it was only on specially equiped vehicles. Under the services provided it listed: "Advanced Automatic Crash Notification - An advisor can call for help if the vehicle is involved in frontal, rear, or side impact crashes - regardless of airbag deployment." f5 you can probably tell us more about this system - if there aren't sensors, is it something that takes other measurable data and makes assumptions about crashes?

Yes, the SDM has a program known as near deployment. Basically it is a program where the SDM considered blowing the bags due to a sensor or its own microprocessor, but stopped short of actually blowing the bag.
The SDM is the primary device for measuring and making decisions for frontal collisions. For side impacts, it is primarily the sensor(s).

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by f5fstop

Yes, the SDM has a program known as near deployment. Basically it is a program where the SDM considered blowing the bags due to a sensor or its own microprocessor, but stopped short of actually blowing the bag.
The SDM is the primary device for measuring and making decisions for frontal collisions. For side impacts, it is primarily the sensor(s).

Never checked to see if this was true for "possible" rollovers.
(Should I also mention that a near deployment will freeze 5-10 seconds of data in the SDM - aka The Infamous Black Box.)

[Idaho-Hummer]

Originally Posted by f5fstop

Never checked to see if this was true for "possible" rollovers.
(Should I also mention that a near deployment will freeze 5-10 seconds of data in the SDM - aka The Infamous Black Box.)

So who gets the 5-10 seconds of information recorded in "The Infamous Black Box". Does it go to GM and stay there or do the local law enforcement agencies/NTSB get access to that as well.

If it stay's with GM to help design a better product that would be cool but, if it goes to the locals well...........


Where is this Infamous Black Box located at on the H3?

[Hummer Guy]

It stays in the box - it is not transmitted to anyone via Onstar.

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by Hummer Guy

It stays in the box - it is not transmitted to anyone via Onstar.

That is true.

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by Idaho-Hummer

So who gets the 5-10 seconds of information recorded in "The Infamous Black Box". Does it go to GM and stay there or do the local law enforcement agencies/NTSB get access to that as well.

If it stay's with GM to help design a better product that would be cool but, if it goes to the locals well...........


Where is this Infamous Black Box located at on the H3?

Under the console, it is the air bag controller (SDM) and without it, air bags will not operate.

[Idaho-Hummer]

So if its not transmitted to OnStar, what is the purpose of recording 5-10 seconds before the impact/event/accident. How, who and why would somebody want and get that information? I'm curoius (sp) as to why GM put that feature in there cars. The only two reasons that I can think of is a CYA for the lawyers and design of a better car, but wouldn't they want the car after the accident to study it.

[Idaho-Hummer]

And what parameters does it record: speed, rpm, laterial forces, impact sensors, ABS........?

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by Idaho-Hummer

So if its not transmitted to OnStar, what is the purpose of recording 5-10 seconds before the impact/event/accident. How, who and why would somebody want and get that information? I'm curoius (sp) as to why GM put that feature in there cars. The only two reasons that I can think of is a CYA for the lawyers and design of a better car, but wouldn't they want the car after the accident to study it.

Why so many questions in one sentence??????


The original design intent was two-fold; one for engineering purposes, one for cover yo a**.
GM cannot access the information without the owner of the vehicle's permission or via a court order. Permission can be given by the insurance company if they have paid the claim and now own the vehicle.
Remember the Audi fiasco about the people claiming sudden acceleration and it was they were pushing on the accelerator? Well, now if this is stated in court, GM can bring in the black box information (permission granted by owner or a court order), if the air bags were deployed or there was a near deployment, and show that the accelerator was pressed.
It has saved GM probably close to billions of dollars by having many suits thrown out of court due to the proof being in those last five to ten seconds before the bags are blown.
Problem now is that many police agencies have the software as well as many attorneys. In fact, a few years ago, a guy in a Vette was convicted using this information. GM can be used to download the information for the police or a prosecutor, BUT, GM demands a court order, they will not just do it.
The information can also be used to save your a** if you were not at fault.

In the future, all vehicles with this 'black box' information will have to be labeled with that fact. In addition, some groups are trying to get the courts to rule that this information cannot be used in criminal cases. One group is using the 5th Amendment as their case.

GM is NOT the only company to have this feature. They might have been the first.
Dealer cannot access this information via a Tech 2.
The system is always recording the required sensor information. If an air bag is deployed (or there is a near deployment), the five or ten seconds prior to the deployment (or near deployment) is written to a non-volatile memory.

Prosecutors have to be careful when asking for this information. If it finds the defendant innocent, it has to be turned over to the defense as Exculpatory evidence, or the charges dropped.

I believe the Hummer H3 records 10 seconds of information.

[H3.007]

After that response F5, I wonder if we have more in common than I thought

Curious though - I totalled a Chevy Aveo with the front end of my H3 and had no bag deployment (I only have the front bags) nor calls from OnStar. I guess the impact wan't hard enough, eh?

Also, is there a way to turn the tracking feature off or the SDM off for off roading purposes? I'd hate to be getting called if I hit a rut while hunting

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by H3.007

After that response F5, I wonder if we have more in common than I thought

Curious though - I totalled a Chevy Aveo with the front end of my H3 and had no bag deployment (I only have the front bags) nor calls from OnStar. I guess the impact wan't hard enough, eh?
I used to hit the road with one of GM's best accident investigators; thanks to Saturn's philosphy of cross-training, and in accidents where the air bags did not go off, if the person was ok, his favorite response was, "were you injured?" With some accidents, the bags will not go off. The impact was not that serious, or the deceleration didn't trigger the SDM; in both cases the bags should not have gone off.
As for totalling a vehicle like the AVEO, you have to take into consideration:
It has crumple zones in the front (as do all new cars), it is small, it is inexpensive (as cars go), and it does not take much to total one in the eyes of the insurance adjuster. The same damage to a Cadillac may not have been a total due to the price of the replacing the vehicle.
Again, if the bags were not deployed, or there SDM considered a deployment, there would be no call to Onstar since the SDM would not have issued the message to call Onstar.
Were you injured in the accident? Did the injuries result from the bags not going off, or did they result from hitting things in the vehicle that would not have been prevented by bags (leg/knee/foot injuries, etc.)?

Also, is there a way to turn the tracking feature off or the SDM off for off roading purposes? I'd hate to be getting called if I hit a rut while hunting

you can disable Onstar by pulling the Onstar fuse (however, you will also disable the stock XM receiver), or you can cancel the service as I have done.

[H3.007]

No injuries to either party. Honestly, I was astounded at the amount of damage to the side and rear end of the Aveo compared to what was mostly bolt-off/bolt-on replacement for my H3 damage. The Aveos must be made of recycled Bud cans!

Without exaggeration, the impact felt to me like it was less than go over a speed bump a little faster than one should. The H3 took the hit with style. The design must have dissipated the impact waves. It really felt as though I had pushed soemthing out of the way, rather than hit something. From your description of the physics involved with the sensors, I can understand why the bags didn't inflate. Would they have, I would have probably sustained bruising. As it stood, I walked away with only bruised pride in the fact that I had only had the H3 for a month, almost to the day of the accident. And it is my first new vehicle ever