Buh-Bye Rummy

[HummerHippy]

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15622266/?GT1=8717.

Well, if you can't stand the heat...

And what's interesting, I looked on foxnews.com, and this story isn't even on there yet.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Interesting change. Just a few days ago, Bush wanted him to stay on for the rest of his term. I guess either Bush finally got the message on Iraq or it was all planned in advance as an election strategy for party solidarity.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061101/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

Isn't it ironic though? Replacing Rumsfeld before the election might have kept enough swing voters from voting democrat. Bush could have maintained Republican control on the Hill by listening to the American people instead of ignoring them.

[DennisAJC]

Removing Rumsfeld months ago would have changed the outcome of this election.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

Isn't it ironic though? Replacing Rumsfeld before the election might have kept enough swing voters from voting democrat. Bush could have maintained Republican control on the Hill by listening to the American people instead of ignoring them.

Yeah and told every American Military person that their boss' job is at the whim of politics.

[PARAGON]

Ever heard of integrity?

The American troops in combat need to know that their leaders have it.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Keeping Rumsfeld onboard is more about loyalty than integrity. Integrity keeps you on mission. Loyalty keeps friends on staff who don't get the job done.

The troops won't lose confidence in Bush as long as they know he has a plan, will stay on mission and will complete the mission. In this case, the mission was to depose Saddam Hussein, provide for democratic elections, train an iraqi army to fight insurgents and turn the reins over to the new iraqi government with a small US occupying/advising force. Four years later, Rumsfeld hasn't finished the job and the end is still out of sight.

As a matter of integrity, Pres Bush should have replaced him long ago so he could achieve his goals in Iraq. Integrity isn't perpetuating a losing strategy just because you won't fire your friend. Integrity is saying, I'm on a mission and you're not getting it done.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

Keeping Rumsfeld onboard is more about loyalty than integrity. Integrity keeps you on mission. Loyalty keeps friends on staff who don't get the job done.

The troops won't lose confidence in Bush as long as they know he has a plan, will stay on mission and will complete the mission. In this case, the mission was to depose Saddam Hussein, provide for democratic elections, train an iraqi army to fight insurgents and turn the reins over to the new iraqi government with a small US occupying/advising force. Four years later, Rumsfeld hasn't finished the job and the end is still out of sight.

As a matter of integrity, Pres Bush should have replaced him long ago so he could achieve his goals in Iraq. Integrity isn't perpetuating a losing strategy just because you won't fire your friend. Integrity is saying, I'm on a mission and you're not getting it done.

Don't Clinton-speak this. YOU said it was ironic and if the President would have replaced Rumsfeld before the election, it would change the outcome.

He didn't sacrifice morale for political gain. You hide your true political position behind your words. That is cowardly.

You are a partisan Democrat and don't practice what you preach.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Don't Clinton-speak this. YOU said it was ironic and if the President would have replaced Rumsfeld before the election, it would change the outcome.

He didn't sacrifice morale for political gain. You hide your true political position behind your words. That is cowardly.

You are a partisan Democrat and don't practice what you preach.

I didn't say he sacrificed morale for political gain. Read what I wrote, not what you think liberals believe.

You say I'm a coward? My avatar isn't a man pulling a faceless mask off his faceless head. I don't hide behind insults, invective and name calling when I run out of rational responses. I've disagreed with you on countless issues, but I've never called you stupid or made fun of you, your family, politics, health or personal appearance. When I disagree with you, I do it out in the open, on topic, supporting my position with logic and evidence and without ranting and raving.

You can't say as much paragon.

How am I hiding my agenda? I speak my mind, state my opinions, drive a truck many of my liberal friends despise, and openly call myself a moderate liberal on a forum of conservatives. If I disagree, I do it with logic, tact and respect for other opinions while I support my position. I read what other people write and admit it when I have my facts wrong or am mistaken.

This is what I practice and what I preach. Hate my politics, opinions and positions as you like, but at least you know where I stand and why I took that stand.

[Nav4-NEOCON1]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

I didn't say he sacrificed morale for political gain. Read what I wrote, not what you think liberals believe.

You say I'm a coward? My avatar isn't a man pulling a faceless mask off his faceless head. I don't hide behind insults, invective and name calling when I run out of rational responses. I've disagreed with you on countless issues, but I've never called you stupid or made fun of you, your family, politics, health or personal appearance. When I disagree with you, I do it out in the open, on topic, supporting my position with logic and evidence and without ranting and raving.

You can't say as much paragon.

How am I hiding my agenda? I speak my mind, state my opinions, drive a truck many of my liberal friends despise, and openly call myself a moderate liberal on a forum of conservatives. If I disagree, I do it with logic, tact and respect for other opinions while I support my position. I read what other people write and admit it when I have my facts wrong or am mistaken.

This is what I practice and what I preach. Hate my politics, opinions and positions as you like, but at least you know where I stand and why I took that stand.

Wisha, just one word for you.... classy!
I'm gonna have Neo read this later on, maybe he can learn something from your statement and how you made it, no drama just the facts.

[BlueHUMMERH2]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

I didn't say he sacrificed morale for political gain. Read what I wrote, not what you think liberals believe.

You say I'm a coward? My avatar isn't a man pulling a faceless mask off his faceless head. I don't hide behind insults, invective and name calling when I run out of rational responses. I've disagreed with you on countless issues, but I've never called you stupid or made fun of you, your family, politics, health or personal appearance. When I disagree with you, I do it out in the open, on topic, supporting my position with logic and evidence and without ranting and raving.

You can't say as much paragon.

How am I hiding my agenda? I speak my mind, state my opinions, drive a truck many of my liberal friends despise, and openly call myself a moderate liberal on a forum of conservatives. If I disagree, I do it with logic, tact and respect for other opinions while I support my position. I read what other people write and admit it when I have my facts wrong or am mistaken.

This is what I practice and what I preach. Hate my politics, opinions and positions as you like, but at least you know where I stand and why I took that stand.

[NEOCON1]

i thought he did a pretty good job , adios Rumsey

[NEOCON1]

Originally Posted by Nav4-NEOCON1

Wisha, just one word for you.... classy!
I'm gonna have Neo read this later on, maybe he can learn something from your statement and how you made it, no drama just the facts.

no drama what funs that im sorry

[KenP]

Originally Posted by HummerHippy

http://msnbc.msn.com/id/15622266/?GT1=8717.

Well, if you can't stand the heat...

And what's interesting, I looked on foxnews.com, and this story isn't even on there yet.

Fox was talking about it BEFORE Bush's 11am Q&A, even saying Bush would touch on it during his talk.

[KenP]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

Interesting change. Just a few days ago, Bush wanted him to stay on for the rest of his term. I guess either Bush finally got the message on Iraq or it was all planned in advance as an election strategy for party solidarity.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061101/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush

Isn't it ironic though? Replacing Rumsfeld before the election might have kept enough swing voters from voting democrat. Bush could have maintained Republican control on the Hill by listening to the American people instead of ignoring them.

Bush said he didn't want it to effect the election bacause it would have looked like a political move on his part. I think that's pretty honorable if you think about it.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

I didn't say he sacrificed morale for political gain. Read what I wrote, not what you think liberals believe.

You say I'm a coward? My avatar isn't a man pulling a faceless mask off his faceless head. I don't hide behind insults, invective and name calling when I run out of rational responses. I've disagreed with you on countless issues, but I've never called you stupid or made fun of you, your family, politics, health or personal appearance. When I disagree with you, I do it out in the open, on topic, supporting my position with logic and evidence and without ranting and raving.

You can't say as much paragon.

How am I hiding my agenda? I speak my mind, state my opinions, drive a truck many of my liberal friends despise, and openly call myself a moderate liberal on a forum of conservatives. If I disagree, I do it with logic, tact and respect for other opinions while I support my position. I read what other people write and admit it when I have my facts wrong or am mistaken.

This is what I practice and what I preach. Hate my politics, opinions and positions as you like, but at least you know where I stand and why I took that stand.

You are so full of yourself you can't read simple words. The colorful additions I bring to conversation is normal everyday conversation even amongst my liberal friends, or do you always talk with operating room sterility?

Just because the word is written, doesn't mean it has to be boring. If you want bland granola-encrusted comments, I suggest you seek a heavily modded technical forum where skin thickness is of no concern.

As far as your comments.

I didn't say you said he sacrificed morale for political gain. I am the one that said he didn't. You inferred that if he would have sacrificed morale, he would have had political gain.

On to the rest of your gibberish. Being a flaming liberal (not a conservative or near centric as you have attempted to portray yourself) one would assume you would be very in touch with your artistic self.

The name of the painting is "Face-off" and nearly all of Mark Kostabi's artwork lacks defined facial features. The painting can be interpreted 2 ways. Face off as the name suggests or more introspectively, as one looking in at one's self.

Nope, you are too shallow and such a social coward that is far fetched for you to grasp. Your attempt a moral superiortiy through lack of profanity or any other colorful adjectives or adverbs is duly noted, but it is only a huge light that shines on the typical liberal viewpoint. You NEED to feel morally superior and grasp onto what you feel is a taboo social more' and use that as feed for your little fire to cover how you really act...... human.

'tis truly sad that so many of us have way much more fun on an internet forum pointing out ignorant and shallow viewpoints such as yours, while you flop down into your futon and pretend to take the "high road."

[GLBLWARMR]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Ever heard of integrity?

The American troops in combat need to know that their leaders have it.

I partially argree. The SecDef is so far removed in the chain of command that a lot of what happens at that level is never seen down at the troop level. As long as our immediate command is in control we are pretty happy. The only ones that really have anything to do with the SecDef are the flag level officers.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by GLBLWARMR

I partially argree. The SecDef is so far removed in the chain of command that a lot of what happens at that level is never seen down at the troop level. As long as our immediate command is in control we are pretty happy. The only ones that really have anything to do with the SecDef are the flag level officers.

I was referring to someone even further removed, the Commander in Chief.

Overall, at boot on the ground level, if the decision makers are seen to come and go at the very whim of political gain, then their purpose feels negated because they are no longer truly serving America, but would be serving for a political party.

[Wisha Haddan H3]

You're funny when you're mad

Originally Posted by PARAGON

You are so full of yourself you can't read simple words. The colorful additions I bring to conversation is normal everyday conversation even amongst my liberal friends, or do you always talk with operating room sterility?

So ... 'yer an idiot', 'you pansy assed f*cking liberal', 'suck my dick', 'stfu', and the rest of your mindless insults are just colorful additions to your daily conversation? omfg dude, where do you get off? Swearing was never the problem. The problem is using profanity as a weapon against people who disagree with you or as a substitute for reason or explanation.

Just because the word is written, doesn't mean it has to be boring. If you want bland granola-encrusted comments, I suggest you seek a heavily modded technical forum where skin thickness is of no concern.

There you go with the stereotypes again. Who wants a 'bland granola-encrusted argument'? I don't. How about this instead ... try disagreeing with people using a compelling rational argument based on your knowledge and experience ... because 'STFU' and 'yer an idiot' aren't getting it done. Apply that arrogant, superior intellect of yours to the issue and stay the f*ck on topic.

As far as your comments.

I didn't say you said he sacrificed morale for political gain. I am the one that said he didn't. You inferred that if he would have sacrificed morale, he would have had political gain.

There ya go puttin words in ma mouth agin. I never mentioned morale ... just the irony of a political decision that backfired.

On to the rest of your gibberish (that's what I'm talking about, mindless insults). Being a flaming liberal (not a conservative or near centric as you have attempted to portray yourself) one would assume you would be very in touch with your artistic self.

There ya go gettin all stereotypical again. As if you knew my position on every issue to call me a 'flaming liberal'. And as if being any kind of liberal would make me an art expert.

The name of the painting is "Face-off" and nearly all of Mark Kostabi's artwork lacks defined facial features. The painting can be interpreted 2 ways. Face off as the name suggests or more introspectively, as one looking in at one's self.

Thank you for the explanation. I don't know much about art and that wasn't obvious.

Nope, you are too shallow and such a social coward that is far fetched for you to grasp. Your attempt a moral superiortiy through lack of profanity or any other colorful adjectives or adverbs is duly noted, but it is only a huge light that shines on the typical liberal viewpoint. You NEED to feel morally superior and grasp onto what you feel is a taboo social more' and use that as feed for your little fire to cover how you really act...... human.

There ya go with the lies and assumptions again. Except for serious discussions, my posts have plenty of sh!ts, dams, f*cks and OMGs ... so it's no social taboo for me. Mindless, emotional outbursts like yours discredit you a lot more than they help in a debate.

'tis truly sad that so many of us have way much more fun on an internet forum pointing out ignorant and shallow viewpoints such as yours, while you flop down into your futon and pretend to take the "high road."

Everyone's ignorant on some things and shallow on others. The trick is to be teachable. I don't stand on the hill beating my chest and bellowing mindless insults to bully people into submission. I don't lose my temper (or stop posting) when someone has good arguments or a different point of view. I don't back down when my opinion is unpopular. And when I'm wrong, I admit it instead of retreating into insults and profanity. I state my opinion and explain where I'm coming from. Then I learn from the responses. That's not cowardice.

And I manage to do it while being civil and staying on topic. Call that the high road if you want ... sure smells better than the sh!te all over your road.

You know, as fun as this has been, I'm done with this unless you can respond on topic with a rational clear-headed opinion that isn't based on assumptions, stereotypes, lies, distortion or insults. Later.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

You're funny when you're mad

How would you know? Were you at the tire store today?