GM HD 2500 P/U Fans Installed

[Fubar]

Well here they are. I have no idea about cfm but they sure are a lot more sturdy looking then the Flex-a-lites that were there. They cover more of the radiator than the flex-a-lites did so hopefully next summer my over heating issue will be solved. Time will tell.

Taz thanks for all of your help.

I can't speak highly enough about Allen at Nelson Performance.com a great guy to work with, willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done.

[Fubar]

Caravaning with Ken and Paragon, that can be arranged but will you have the necessary computer program to do what ever adjustments need to be made by the week of Oct. 17th?

Do me a favor and shoot me an e-mail or PM with your phone number that way once I leave here tomorrow or Saturday I'll be able to get a hold of you.

thanks,

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ:
Fubar the fan sounds programmed correctly. Unless they just hooked it to the ac switch and then the fan will get power as long as A/C is on. If You turn off A/C and just let it idle and if fan does not come on ever then it is not hooked or programmed to turn on and off at correct temp.
I'm waiting for My new software from HPTUNERS so I have My fans running only when ac is turned on. Once the software gets here I will tune it to come of and on at temps without A/C. If weather is nice and moving 25 MPH or more i turn A/C off and let air from forward movement do the cooling. You just have to remember to turn A/C on.

Fubar You can only do what dealer wants but one of the best examples of putting the 160 drgree t-stat on is Ligenfelter. They do it on every ride. My normal temp run just in 100 degrees not pulling hard is usually 180 degrees. I think at some point You will need t-stat. but, with cool weather coming play their game a while.

Fubar also if You want to come My way go ahead and caravan with KenP and PARAGON. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Fubar]

Well here they are. I have no idea about cfm but they sure are a lot more sturdy looking then the Flex-a-lites that were there. They cover more of the radiator than the flex-a-lites did so hopefully next summer my over heating issue will be solved. Time will tell.

Taz thanks for all of your help.

I can't speak highly enough about Allen at Nelson Performance.com a great guy to work with, willing to do whatever it takes to get the job done.

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

Be Cool does have a unit for the H2, up to 500BHP. Also, use "wetter Watter" and a 25/75 mix of antifreeze.Both items will improve cooling.

One thing I did not think of is that if the stock system is taxed cooling 325BHP, there is no way it will cool down a S/C 6.0L hitting at 500RWHP. So, in light of this, I offer you the ability to size your radiator, as per your own vehicle specs...

Bad link...working on it

[Fubar]

I can't do much about it until I get the truck back. I'll just have to see how the truck performs. Souther Nevada never gets much below 32 and I don't drive the truck every day. If the t-stat causes problems we can always put in a higher temp one. I'll just have to drive it and see what happens. From what everone has told me changing the t-stat is a quick job and reprogramming the fans to a new trun on point can be handled with a Hypertech hand held.

Thanks for the feedback. I'll ask about the fan blowing air forward and keep asking until I hear what I want.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Fubar sorry I did not follow the situation as You got further along. I did not think to check comments on the Pic section. Fubar, Allen programmed Your fans on the PCM He did for the dealer. He sets it for any rig that He is told will have electric fans. He set it to match what ever t-stat the dealer told Him You had. If going to 160 degree which I recommend He would reprogram it again or if He has a copy of Your program which He most likely does, He will be able to change the fan to match the 160 and swap PCM's with You.
The purpose of a t-stat is to get the engine to a temp that the factory wants before it opens and let's the coolant flow through the system and hold usually what ever the t-stat rating is. If the engine starts to cool down then a 190 t-stat will close till the engine temp is back to the 190 degree or higher. Well the same reasoning goes in why You run a 160 degree t-stat on the engine so that if You are having cooling problems or just want truck to run cooler to prevent detonation and yes an engine running to hot with the wrong grade of gas will have or can have detonation. The purpose of the 160 is so that the t-stat opens sooner than a 190 which allows the coolant to begin the cooling process sooner in this case 30 degrees sooner and it has to work with the fans as the fan has to be told that you need it to come on sooner with a 160 t-stat than a 190 t-stat. If You do not then You lose the efficiency of the t-stat and fan working together. The point is to not let it get hotter and have to let the fan work harder to keep the coolant temp low. Let the fans get as early a jump as they can starting to move the air through the radiator once the t-stat has opened to let water flow. Sooner water flows and sooner the fans blow You get cooler temps and everything runs better and lasts longer.
Same thing with many drag racing rigs. They will pull t-stat out completely and I had done on a 1968 Mustang that I raced and I had no t-stat, water wetter, and a higher mix of anti-freeze to keep it cooler so i did not blow a head gasket. Back in those days water wetter was just pouring some denatured alcohol into the radiator. Temp being to high can cause many problems but, one of those is a blown head gasket but, the real concern with cooling is to prevent detonation so that you can run bigger cams, carbs., and eveything else to get more HP.
The only place I would not be in a hurry to lower t-stat temp is in the case of a desiel engine. The fuel already has a high tolarence against combustion so cooler temp on it means jelled fuel if not careful. Everyone has their opinion and when You talk to people like LPE and other major engine and performance upgrade companies and they highly recommend 160 t-stat then it is just a matter of doing what You think You know is the right versus what some others say is the way to go. I personally have run a 160 t stat on My 5.3 Silverado with handheld tuning set a 93 octane runing 87 octane since 1999. Have not had any timing retard by nock sensor's and I did the same thing on the H2 for 12,000 miles and no problem's. So when i got MY sponsored HPTUNERS software i checked the way i was running and it should no problems with what I was doing and this software is at least as good as You can use. Once I up boost to 12 to 15 lbs. I have already seen on tuning that i will have to go up to 93 oct. fuel. Holding the temp low as possible to prevent detonation will no longer work by it self in running low octane and allot of timing advance etc.
Fubar it is MY feeling and many years of experience You have done the right thing by going to 160 t stat but unless the fan is programmed to work with it You do not get all the benefit. If or when you change t-stat call Allen and He will make arraingements to get you an adjusted PCM to work with the cooler t-stat.
There are going to be different and radicaly different opinions on all the different things in the workings of an engine from the oil pan to the carb. or fuel injection. BUt, it seems to Me to look at what the large companies do and recommend as in LPE for one and look at rigs that have followed a different MO and talk to as many as You can to see what is the predominate consensus amoung those who are and have dealt with this problem.
Fubar looks like You have done the things to correct the problem. I wish I had been smart enough to get My dealer to make My change to cover it under warranty instead of Me footing the bill but, I did not hesitate spending My own money because I had a problem with the AC not cooling and temp running to high on the gauge so rather than worry with it I spent about $500 to make the change and have never been happier with the temp. situation. So I hope Yours will be OK come next summer Fubar. Well Fubar My apologies for not thinking about checking quotes on the Pics board.
TAZ

[Nixxxster]

Anyone know how much is a HD 2500 fan kit. And is there a good shop in Southern California to install it.
Thanks

[Fubar]

quote: Did they get the T-stat wire hooked into the harness at the H2 computer and set Your turn on and off temp?

Taz yes I believe so the fans do not turn on when the motor is first started unless the AC is on and then only one of them comes on. So I hope they have it hooked up correctly. Maybe after Moab I need to head East instead of back home and come visit you?

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

The air should not be circulating around the shroud. It should all "draw thru" the radiator, from the front grill towards the engine. You do not "push" air thru the radiator, you "suck" it thru.

I have a beer on the fact the new 'stat will not solve this prob. If it does anything, it will be problematic to cold weather driving. The fact that the engine temp is running high should be clue to the fact that it is an efficiency cooling issue.

If it were my truck, I would re-wire the fans to "draw thru" the radiator and use a 170 degree stat.

[OPINION] 160 degree is to low. It will cause ECM issues at the lower running temps. A low temp stat (160)is good for keeping fluids/engine cool while in the stage lanes of the drag strip. Once the engine is in full warm up, the engine never sees 160 degrees again.[/OPINION]

[Fubar]

Taz,
Thanks again for all the advice. It's Monday and I've not heard from Towbin Hummers about my truck. :-( I'll call Allen once I get the truck back from Towbin. I'm going to assume that it's not difficult to unplug the pcm? Doese the battery have to be disconnected or anything else done before and or after pulling the unit?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ:
We are considering Vegas and Miami for other shops.
Also in west OK.

But, to problem at hand. Do not do anything else till You have talked to Allen. I know how His process works and how much tuning He does off the street and He should be able to send You a tuned PCM that is better than what you have. You can give Him Your parameters about Your SC. He has a form for customers to fill out and He will customize the tune as much as he can without You having to bring it in to His shop.
Your tune from Magnuson is just a simple real basic superchips tune in their handheld. You need a better tune than offered from Magnuson anyway. Allen should be able to do that.
I know You have had allot of confusing info. BUt, do pay attention to Allen and trust Him.
In brief tell Him problem from begining. I have had night time calls with him. He does not mind if time allows to visit after hours but, it is getting He is at shop till dark 30 every night. He needs to hire help but, He is concerned of drop in quality if He is not doing the tuning etc. So again contact Allen and explain what has happened. He pretunes the PCM's that go in STS turbo's. If the kit does not come with one and they recommend to buy one they suggest Allen.
It will not be long that superchips will have another company that will provide tunes for all the superchips handheld tuners. The new company will improve it dramatically but, they still have to operate within the guidelines of Magnuson.
So let Allen direct ou out of this tuning problem. If You were not so far away We would help. We are hoping to have Our dyno in in6 to 8 weeks. doing the add on the buidling planning, being done by Dragon and i'm working and the finals of the detail of the dyno. We are discussin an AWD dyno or just go with single and add the AWD later. they let You start at what level and move up.
hope you get it worked out but allen is besy bet.

TAZ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Fubar]

Fluidyne would have to custom build something as they don't have a radiator for the H2. Don't know about cost. The locate a dealer option offered up one shop in town but they don't carry radiators either.:-(

In the summer months yes the truck would over heat regardless of condition 80-mph or 5-mph in stop and go traffic. 120 is just too damn hot for any cooling system to keep up with. Proof that my upgrades have not caused this problem is the fact that normal h2's some brand new off the lot were being towed into the shop with over heating issues during summer. This does not however explain the trouble I'm having now.:-(

Overheating at speed. Ok I'll go with capacity problem but wouldn't it also overheat in stop and go traffic? Personally I think the system does not dissipate enough heat when the truck is under a load or it's extremely hot. I went to Moab for a week, drove at frw speeds getting there and no over heating issue, spent the days crawling around on rocks and no over heating issues there either. I come home from Moab and climb three mountain passes two at 4000 ft and one up to 8400 ft and I have nothing but problems.

Tune being off? well maybe but if it were that far off it would ping and run crap*y? Which it's not. Plus when I took it to the dyno shop in Ca they would have said something but there only comment was that it was running a little to lean. Actually come to think about it that may be the answer cuz the only time I'm having trouble when it's not 120 degrees is at altitude. The tune came straight from Magnacharger there hasn't been any custom tuning yet.

We'll see what happens with the t-stat like you say it will probably cause more problems then cure. I'll see about taking the truck back to the dyno shop in Ca and see about having a custom tune done.

thanks for your suggestions.

[Fubar]

found it:
http://www.becool.com
The nearest dealer is in Sparks Nevada but I'm guessing they could ship to anywhere.

There product search page is:
http://becool.com/productSearch.mxml...onChecked=true

I didn't get a call saying my truck was ready for pick up so I'll have to wait a bit longer. When I get the truck back I plan on driving to Baker Ca. a little over 100 miles away, which is just the other side of the two 4000 foot grades. I'll drive there and back and see if I still have any overheating issues. If I do I'll see if the dealership is going to pick up the cost of the radiator.

thanks for all the suggestions and help.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fastest H-Town Realtor:
Be Cool does have a unit for the H2, up to 500BHP. Also, use "wetter Watter" and a 25/75 mix of antifreeze.Both items will improve cooling.

One thing I did not think of is that if the stock system is taxed cooling 325BHP, there is no way it will cool down a S/C 6.0L hitting at 500RWHP. So, in light of this, I offer you the ability to size your radiator, as per your own vehicle specs...

Bad link...working on it </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Dan]

What was the total cost, if you don't mind my asking.

[Fubar]

I made it to CA last night (late)without any trouble. I even saw the temp gauge read 185 (I think, the second mark on the gauge, 160=cold at start then the next mark=185 followed by 210)210 is still where it trucks temp stays most of the time but at least on the down hill parts of the trip between Vegas and Ca the gauge went to 185

I'm still concerned about the temp being 210 most of the way home and even more so now with the 160 thermostat installed.

I am almost 100% certain that the cooling issue for me isn't my radiator or the trucks stock cooling components.

The problem is with Mangnacharger's inner cooler. It's not big enough or efficient enough.

How do I know this? Simple while going down a couple of the long hills with the temp resting at 185 I accelerated until the supercharger came on and the temp rose very quickly back to 210...

So I'm going to look into getting a more efficient or larger intercooler and see if I can't keep the trucks operating temp down around 185.

I know a change of 25 degrees isn't that big of a temp jump especially under acceleration. The trouble is that the supercharger comes on or kicks in at 2000rpm's which is anywhere between 60mph and 80mph depending on the terrain. This is a problem since most of the country's max allowed speed is 65mph or better. (And I can’t drive 65!) A bigger concern right now for me is what happens when summer hits in Vegas? Do I leave the truck in the garage for 16 weeks? I don't think so...


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fubar:
I got my truck back once again from the dealership (only 3 weeks away this time)

Taz,
I am going to assume that I am still going to have problems based on what you've said in this second paragraph.

The fans are running or operating in the correct direction, i.e. blowing air towards the block.

With the truck idling in the driveway the fans came on at just about 200-210 they ran for a bit then shut off. I let if idle a little bit longer and they repeated this function.

Unless I'm not understanding you correctly my normal operating temp now that the 160 t-stat is installed should be somewhere between 160 and 180, correct? And if that true then I still have a problem because normal seams to be just under 210 by the width of the needle.

I leave for Ca in a couple of hours so hopefully it will be an uneventful trip.

I want to tank everyone for there support and advice.

Fubar


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ:
Congrats Fubar
As best i can tell from Pics it looks like they did a good job and did it correctly. My eyes are not great but, if You would like to send Me some more detailed pics blown up more in size I will be glad to look the install over real close for you. You know how to get into touch.
Did they get the T-stat wire hooked into the harness at the H2 computer and set Your turn on and off temp?
Well i really feel Your trouble will be over now.
With My setup I have to make 6 WOT runs during tuning without rest in between, to get the rad temp to go to 200 degrees. I'm taking hard runs with no metanol or CO2 spray.
Let Me know if I can help with checking the Pics closer.

Fubar You are right on Allen. Is He not the most accomedating guy You have dealt with. He is just a great guy and I would encourage anyone to ask for help from Him. He is a small shop but, You would not know it by the amount of work He turns out. He does most everything Himself so He makes sure it is done right. He has onw helper and His wife cracks the whip I think.
Well again congrats Fubar!!!!!!!!!!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Fubar]

CP, w.t.h.

In?

shiny & pretty?

whatever are you talking about?

welcome to my nightmere, thanks for the support.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2co-pilot:
Fubar, I can't get into the nerd talk. But I know it makes you feel better that they are in- and it looks shiny and pretty. Very cool that the warranty covered it also. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[timgco]

Gary, did these fans end up solving the issues?

[Fubar]

Taz thanks,
No they did not change the T-stat.

They are standing firm to there belief or story that it will make the truck run too lean. I'm guessing that the reason for there stubborn behavior is that they have no way of programming the cpu if there is any truth there story.

The truck now runs normal at 195 maybe 200 the needle is just below the 210 mark by the with of the needle.

I did some wide open passing of cars on an uphill grade and the temp did climb to just over 210. It stayed there until I got to the top of the grade then returned to just below the 210 mark. I have no doubt that changing the t-stat will help. I just need to find some in this god forsaken town who can reprogram the cpu.

Maybe when the trans get bad enough and I'll take it to Chatsworth to the LAPD (Los Angeles Performance Division)to have it rebuilt. I'll have them change the t-stat and do any necessary custom tuning.

I'll send you a larger version of a couple of those images later today maybe tomorrow.


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ:
Congrats Fubar
As best i can tell from Pics it looks like they did a good job and did it correctly. My eyes are not great but, if You would like to send Me some more detailed pics blown up more in size I will be glad to look the install over real close for you. You know how to get into touch.
Did they get the T-stat wire hooked into the harness at the H2 computer and set Your turn on and off temp?
Well i really feel Your trouble will be over now.
With My setup I have to make 6 WOT runs during tuning without rest in between, to get the rad temp to go to 200 degrees. I'm taking hard runs with no metanol or CO2 spray.
Let Me know if I can help with checking the Pics closer. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Fubar]

Ken,
They say yes and promise an explanation when I go pick up the truck.

honestly I don't know.

I mean you can put your hand down by the fans in the engine bay and yes there is air movement towards your hand but at the same time there is air coming out the bottom front grill. ??? I'm lost.

Maybe there some hyperventilating chipmunk thats taken up residency in my engine compartment/grill area?



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
Fubar, did they wire the fans incorrectly? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

We are considering Vegas and Miami for other shops.
Also in west OK.

But, to problem at hand. Do not do anything else till You have talked to Allen. I know how His process works and how much tuning He does off the street and He should be able to send You a tuned PCM that is better than what you have. You can give Him Your parameters about Your SC. He has a form for customers to fill out and He will customize the tune as much as he can without You having to bring it in to His shop.
Your tune from Magnuson is just a simple real basic superchips tune in their handheld. You need a better tune than offered from Magnuson anyway. Allen should be able to do that.
I know You have had allot of confusing info. BUt, do pay attention to Allen and trust Him.
In brief tell Him problem from begining. I have had night time calls with him. He does not mind if time allows to visit after hours but, it is getting He is at shop till dark 30 every night. He needs to hire help but, He is concerned of drop in quality if He is not doing the tuning etc. So again contact Allen and explain what has happened. He pretunes the PCM's that go in STS turbo's. If the kit does not come with one and they recommend to buy one they suggest Allen.
It will not be long that superchips will have another company that will provide tunes for all the superchips handheld tuners. The new company will improve it dramatically but, they still have to operate within the guidelines of Magnuson.
So let Allen direct ou out of this tuning problem. If You were not so far away We would help. We are hoping to have Our dyno in in6 to 8 weeks. doing the add on the buidling planning, being done by Dragon and i'm working and the finals of the detail of the dyno. We are discussin an AWD dyno or just go with single and add the AWD later. they let You start at what level and move up.
hope you get it worked out but allen is besy bet.

TAZ

[Fastest H-Town Realtor]

One more idea..although simplistic...(1)Go find a HD2500 on the lot. (2)Get the fans running. (3)Which way is the air flow? (4)Fix as needed.