Trivia question #1

[DennisAJC]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
What is the best way to prevent someone from going into shock from blood loss? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd bite them.

It would turn them into vampires but atleast they'd live.

[Dug]

oh ya, your right paragon. I'm hammered gotrta go to bed. see lya.

[PARAGON]

sucking on raw animal meat provides the same "benefits" as the chicken soup.

Otherwise ETD, you are on the right track with everything. You are trying to prevent shock from occuring and rebuilding blood supply so that it can provide oxygen to the organs is the main goal.

[ETD]

No go Paragon. Hemorrhagic shock is a mostly a loss of fluid state. Animal meat will not replenish fluids... no way.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ETD:
No go Paragon. Hemorrhagic shock is a mostly a loss of fluid state. Animal meat will not replenish fluids... no way. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Apparently you missed the point of hydration of a patient with a hemorrhagic injury. I believe I have said it a couple of times. The patient needs more red blood cells to carry more oxygen so that the organs do not shut down, which is, by definition, hemorrhagic shock.

Both chicken soup and red meats provide access to valuable plasma and hemoglobin which is the building blocks for the red blood cells. If the patient cannot acquire the chicken soup or benefits of the red meat orally, it has been shown that fluid resuscitation can be achieved through proctoclysis.

Also, simple IV fluid resuscitation using saline is being studied as being detrimental since it does nothing to increase blood cell count and dilutes the blood loosening clots and lessening clotting ability.

Nice try though!

[Marcmedic]

Hemorrhagic shock and hypovolemic shock are two different things. Hypovolemic needs fluid replacement, hemorrhagic needs blood, packed cells etc...

[Mr. I - Man]

Ditto

[h2co-pilot]

Aren't they the same? You can't have Hemorrhagic shock without Hypovolemic Shock and Hemorrhagic is not one of the four pathophysiologic classifications of shock. The etiology is basically the same, no?

[xburbman]

Hmmmmm....rebuilding blood supply so that it can provide oxygen to the organs....so does this mean if I'm cut and/or bleeding, I can ask my girl for a Bl_w Job? How cum that isn't an option?



<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
sucking on raw animal meat provides the same "benefits" as the chicken soup.

Otherwise ETD, you are on the right track with everything. You are trying to prevent shock from occuring and rebuilding blood supply so that it can provide oxygen to the organs is the main goal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[h2co-pilot]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by xburbman:
Hmmmmm....rebuilding blood supply so that it can provide oxygen to the organs....so does this mean if I'm cut and/or bleeding, I can ask my girl for a Bl_w Job? How cum that isn't an option?



</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He said sucking on raw meat should be done by the victim.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by h2co-pilot:
Aren't they the same? You can't have Hemorrhagic shock without Hypovolemic Shock and Hemorrhagic is not one of the four pathophysiologic classifications of shock. The etiology is basically the same, no? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I'm no health care professional but I understand it as you do. The resulting shock is from the same thing, lack of perfusion being provided by the blood stream.

[Wagoneer]

Given the loose terminology hemorrhagic shock is more of a shocking TV description term than anything else. On occasion I have accidentally caused hemorrhagic shock in people. In these cases defining it as bleeding lots of blood out of the body until the blood pressure is very low, I am guessing this is what the original question attempted to ask about. The key to survival is to stop the bleeding and restore the BP with volume..generally what ever is on hand although IV blood would be ideal. Depending on how low the BP has fallen and how much end organ damage has been caused this may be possible with oral rehydration as a temporizing measure but i have no experiance with that. Best thing is to go to a hospital asap before boing up any soup or opening packs of jerky. Oral iron in any form is worthless.
I always give them chicken soup at least the next day as it makes em feel better and then I'm less likely to get sued.

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wagoneer:
Given the loose terminology hemorrhagic shock is more of a shocking TV description term than anything else. On occasion I have accidentally caused hemorrhagic shock in people. In these cases defining it as bleeding lots of blood out of the body until the blood pressure is very low, I am guessing this is what the original question attempted to ask about. The key to survival is to stop the bleeding and restore the BP with volume..generally what ever is on hand although IV blood would be ideal. Depending on how low the BP has fallen and how much end organ damage has been caused this may be possible with oral rehydration as a temporizing measure but i have no experiance with that. Best thing is to go to a hospital asap before boing up any soup or opening packs of jerky. Oral iron in any form is worthless.
I always give them chicken soup at least the next day as it makes em feel better and then I'm less likely to get sued. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Nice try. Very stupid, but nice try. Thanks for playing.

[Wagoneer]

Lucky for the "very stupid" people, We leave the chicken soup life saving stories for our kids. But as a rule if we see fools eating soup or meat on the trail we just keep driving..natural selection at its best.

[h2co-pilot]

"Feeling a little Shock Bound!?...

SNAP INTO A SLIM JIM!!"

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Wagoneer:
But as a rule if we see fools eating soup or meat on the trail we just keep driving..natural selection at its best. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I tried to humm this but it didn't make any sense to me.

[ETD]

I supposed that I should quit as I basically can not read Paragon's mind BUT if the question as I interpret it is referring to "how do you PREVENT shock in someone who suffered a bleeding episode" then the answer is volume and volume. No ifs, ands, or buts. Again, if the scenario is such that the person so injured is far from medical help and is conscious enough to eat then chicken soup, water, gatorade, soda, whatever. A few days after the person has been hospitalized and is stable, then an intake of read meat can help to replenish the iron pool. The hemoglobin/red cells will eventually be made by the bone marrow and will not be resorbed from the gut after eating red meat as digestive enzymes will break the hemoglobin down to amino acids constituents. Now if Paragon has to always be right on this forum then I bow to the wisdom of the group, otherwise I am a traumatologist and want to advice the forum correctly in case one of us has an accident on the trails. Thanks.

[PARAGON]

Well you have to open your mind to the scenario I am assuming. I am assuming that time is not a factor and medical help is not a possibilty. So you have a patient that loss some blood and you would like to do what you can to prevent shock over the coming days.

Obviously anything that bolsters the bloodstream in any way is a plus. The point of the whole matter is that it is proven that the hemoglobin of the soup and red meat transport the needed irons so that the body can reproduce red blood cells which is what is needed to overcome shock. A patient can survive with a low blood pressure but they cannot if that blood is not enriched with oxygen. That's the whole point.

The patient is going to be thirsty regardless, but it is important to get items into them that will produce the best results. Sometimes that might mean shoving a piece of raw meat up their rectum.

[ETD]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Sometimes that might mean shoving a piece of raw meat up their rectum. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



(I got no come back for that one!)