Any 1911 fans on the board?

[Humgirl&guy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Petey:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Humgirl&guy:
Here in canada we cannot carry handguns, Just shotguns and beer! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bull****..

Julian does it all the time on TPBs... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

On TPBs.....what is that!!!

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. I - Man:
The Marines who used the 1911 as a service piece were way before my time. I served from 1993 - 2002. I never said it was a bad pistol.I never stated anything but the obvious, The 1911 is a great weapon for its day. It is a little heavy and the bullet drop and capacity in my opinion does not make up for little bit more in stopping power over the 40 S.W. It just does not fit my needs. And thats my personal choice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's cool. And the HK line - just about every damn weapon in it - is awesome. As for heavy, well, I guess it's heavier than the HK, but a big bad Marine would have no problem hefting it. (Sorry, years of Army training forces me to make fun of Marines at any and every opportunity). I know you personally did not berate the pistol - that was Paragon, and his vehemence against this fine weapon suprised me. I'd love to hear his reasoning.

Hey, anyway, "Semper Fi" my friend ....now "Follow Me"

Sean

[PARAGON]

Noticed I purposely did not advocate or push MY choice. I am fairly standardized with the .40SW, though. Although I do own anything from a MarkII to a DE .44mag.

The Remington Golden Sabres are pretty much top dog as far as the average round goes from what I remember. Their wound creation is well beyond most other rounds.

I have Winchester Ranger Partition Golds that I got several boxes of from a buddy and are my CC loads. The Hydra-Shoks rate well in tests but when they loose some kinetic energy their penetration drops off faster or so I was told.

There might be newer and better rounds available today but when when it hits the fan there are many more variables that I am concerned about than a few gelatin tests.

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
Actually, I have a hard time typing in response to continued stupid nonsense from storythehut while driving 12 hours and got back home late last night. Go back and learn some history that's actual, from the people involved. Not the BS you like to pretend is facts.

Ronald Reagan was rebuilding our Armed Forces. Standardization was the politically correct excuse. Back in Vietnam, the subject of the range of the Colt was discussed and debated. It was a great tunnel gun but range limited it's ability in many engagements. This was after we assumed use of the M16.

If the US was simply concerned about NATO interoperability, the Colt would have been replaced long before it was. Our guys were taking German Lugers in WWII and using them for their range. The .45's use had debated been ever since and there were many on both sides of the argument.

So, where did I say anything about the choice of Beretta over other makers? Also, where did I say "most tactical engagements take place well beyond the established 21 feet?" You are a dumpster diving tool. And Petey, exactly what "facts" are supposed to have "scared me off."

I don't need to gather information on this one. Toadies, aka Storyfck, already has a Sterling reputation for being a complete dumbass here and on other sites. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Wrong again **** for brains Jarine...

here once again.. read and learn then get back to me..



http://www.sightm1911.com/index.htm

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content"> In 1985, the United States Armed Forces replaced the M1911 with the Beretta 92 F to the everlasting consternation of 1911 devotees everywhere. There were several reasons for the switch. The U.S. was the only NATO country not using a 9mm as the standard issue sidearm and there was a desire to issue a pistol chambered for the ubiquitous 9mm for logistical reasons. The Beretta will hold 15 rounds in its magazine as compared with 7 rounds of the military issue 1911 magazine and is lighter and easier to field strip than the 1911. The double action/single action Beretta was perceived as being a safer pistol to carry in a state of readiness than the "cocked and locked" 1911. In some quarters, the .45 ACP was viewed as too powerful and difficult to control for those having only nominal training with the weapon. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

No one disputes this except you know it all double ought spy man....

[Petey]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. I - Man:
Hey toad sh*t it is very obvious that you don't know dick about the armed forces. USMC S/S does not stand for anything secret agent or service related. It stands for Marine Scout Sniper. One Shot One Kill. OOH RAH </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

except he wasn't a real marine so that is all bull****..

hoo haw.....

[Beastmaster]

If money was no object, here's my choices in order (having owned or currently own all of these brands at one time or another):

-Wilson Combat CQB (with or without the light rail...I prefer no light rail. It's finish is great! Smoothest trigger pull too.) This one is so nice I don't like to beat it up much. I prefer cranking on my Gunsite Combat Commander (see below).

-Kimber Tactical II (I know you said no Kimber, but damn! Those pistols are sweet.)

-Kimber Custom Tactical TLE II Stainless (LAPD SWAT's choice of pistol).

-Colt Gunsite Model 70 (I have a Stainless Combat Commander version of this. It's one of three standard carry pistols I tend to use.)

Best web site - m1911.org.

As for IPSC, think more IDPA. I used to be really into IPSC, and got ticked off at the fact that people with specialized raceguns and near impossible scenarios would be the norm.

IDPA is more suited to real life situations using near stock pistols and revolvers.

Oh, and if you do get into IPSC or IDPA....get a reloader. Either a Dillon Precision 550 or Square Deal B. You're better off spending money on the 550.

Oh...my other two primary carry pistols? Glock 30 and Glock 21. Can you tell that I like .45acp?

I wish my wife would standardize on it as well...but no, she had to be different. She went Glock 23.

-Steve

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Beastmaster:
No. He's not the type to be scared off. He gathers information and waits patiently. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

He gathers no information.. leastwise not "correct" information. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You obviously did not get the inference there. Never heard of a USMC S/S before? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Okay secret agent man..

[DRTYFN]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
Look at the big brain on Brad.. does mommie let you use the big boy chair at home??? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

This is definitely NOT the real Toadies.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. I - Man:
Dick </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thank you.

Sean

[Petey]

Did we lose PARAGAY??? Guess all those facts scared him off.

[Mr. I - Man]

H&k

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLATHER BLATHER BLATHER </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

the basis of your arguements throughout this thread is the military adopted the M9 due to a perceived lacking in range and accuracy on with the 1911. you are wrong and very stupid to keep blathering your bull**** opining about what does not constitute a valid tactical situation. again, you = wannabe CQB man..

You are the only one who is dazzled with your pretend military experience and tactical expertise. Most LEs and operators would laugh at your dumbass as most likely half this board is not counting your sackriders.

[Petey]

OMG PARAFAG can't get enough of this thread.....

RAAARRR@!!!!1

[Efrain]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. I - Man:
Hey toad sh*t it is very obvious that you don't know dick about the armed forces. USMC S/S does not stand for anything secret agent or service related. It stands for Marine Scout Sniper. One Shot One Kill. OOH RAH </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well said I-man!
you go that Camel Toadie?

[Beastmaster]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
Indeed. Nothing like having your pistol blow up in time of need.

Most LE are forced by departments to carry those ****ty pieces because Mr.Glock sucks major LE cawk. They practically give them to departments compared to Kimbers, HKs, Sigs, etc.

I wouldn't use one for a doorstop. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually, these are the primary reasons why Glocks have won out over the years versus any other major manufacturer:

1) Weight. My duty belt (with a Colt Double Eagle, of all things!) had the DE, Surefire, two handcuffs, 4 magazines, stun gun, and ASP. Taking a few ounces off helps the duty officer. (I also had a S&W 945 in a belly band holster off of my body armor). That's a lot of stuff to haul around.

2) Ammo count. The S&W 39 and 59's (made famous by the Illinois State Police when they went to it in 1968) started the trend of high capacity duty carry. Glock's G17 with 16+1 perpetuated that even further. Add the gangbanger FUD (Fear/Uncertainty/Doubt), and you've got something there.

One patrol officer I used to know had a G21 with 4 spare magazines. He used to give me crap (since I only had Wilson 8 rounders x4 spares with me) all the time. He fell into the FUD....hook, line and sinker.

If I really need that much firepower, out came my FN/FAL. Screw the .45, screw the AR-15 or the Ruger Mini-14 or the Remington 870 with slugs- give me .308 with the FAL.

3) Perceived Durability. When I was going through Instructor training, there was a rather hilarious video about how this one southern state Sheriff's office did their Glock "testing". I now wish I kept or made a copy of it. It shows the G17 getting tortured by:
- Multiple Helicopter Drops
- Mud dunk
- Run over by a patrol car
- Thrown onto a brick wall
- and some other stuff I don't remember.

What was hilarious about the video was that the lead tester (who might have been the elected Sheriff too), took the G17 after each torture test, loaded it, shot off all the rounds in the magazine in a really haphazard fashion, then tossed it onto the nearest flat surface (most of the time which was the concrete floor.). He eventually knocked off the front sight.

Well, that video helped sell Glocks. Many departments, stung by the failures of many various shotguns other than the Remington 870, saw this video as the ultimate torture test.

What also helped was that the same G17 that was beaten up by that backwater department made its rounds to other departments....and beaten up even more.

And with realism - how many officers really keep their duty pistols clean? I still clean mine every month if they are unused, and after each use when I take them on the range. But I've been drilled so many times on the aphorism "a clean gun is a happy gun" that all of my firearms are happy. Police departments look at reliability - will the pistol fire when you pull the trigger and if it's abused like most officers abuse their pistols?

4) Armorer's school....or the simplicity of it. Take one punch bought at Sears, and you can fix most stuff (short of sights) with a Glock. Win over the hearts of the poor souls that have to fix the pistols that get abused by the officers that don't take care of them, and you get good reports back up the chain of command.

5) Finally, it comes down to training. When Glock came out of the shadow, many departments still used revolvers. Glock was the first manufacturer who could prove to training departments that the overall basics of firearms training remained the same, and that you needed to just teach the issues/differences of loading/unloading and clearing jams. No external safeties, no other niggling issues, just teach the same basics (which are the same basics no matter which pistol you use, really), and add the esoterics of magazine handling.

This is where Glock won out. This is where Glock continues to win - convincing the departments of the last two items are cost savings. This is how Glock has won 60% of the Police Departments and the FBI. I'm not saying it's right, but with a decent product and excellent marketing - they really did a number on the competition.

[Toadies]

It has been well established by Ayoob, Marshall and others that most tactical engagements occur at 21 feet or less.

I suppose you glockies are gonna start the hi-cap arguement next...

[Mr. I - Man]

Actually Paragon and I are former Jarheads. I was in for about 8.5 years with extensive M.O.U.T. and C.Q.B. Training also a Water Survival Instructor and 300 PFT consistantly. So I know just a little.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. I - Man:
.45 230 grain. You better be a good defilade shot for anything over 25 yards, because thats going to have a lot of bullet drop. So your well placed chest shot is going to be a knee cap at range. I take it you never had to use a weapon in a real world situation. And real world does not mean shooting at stray dogs in your trailer park.

Looks like we have weapons troll now boys!

Season is open fire at will!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


While I agree on the bullet drop, I'd have to say though that as far as a self-defense round goes, it's a moot point! In any courtroom in the U.S. today, 25 yards sounds more like murder than self-defense! I love the .45acp +p 230 grain round - especially as offered in the Hydra-Shock or Golden Sabre rounds. I will admit, however, that just about any manufacturer's .357mag in a 125gr JHP is about the ultimate manstopper. There is some issue with overpenetration which is why many police forces went away from it, but if that is not an issue, and one can handle the recoil, it is about the ultimate in real-life one-shot stops on thin-skinned two legged targets.
Now, that said, I'd far rather have a .22 in my boot when I need it than a .45 or .357, or .40, or anything else back at home in the nightstand!

Anyone who is a rabid devotee of a particular caliber, firearm (or anything else for that matter) to the exclusion of all else, is not the brightest bulb on the tree. I used to have this idiot tell me all the time that one of my rifles chambered in .223 was worthless, and that ONLY his .308 was effective. I made him an offer - to stand and face each other at 100 yards, let me fire first with my useless 5.56 and then I'd let him fire at me with his 7.62. It was odd. He never took me up on it.

Sean

[H3OwnerDiz]

Here is my contribution to this thread... HK USP .45 COMPACT is what my hubby carries daily and he can't say enough about how great it is. Here's a link to the torture test, it can withstand an awful lot!

[PARAGON]

Actually, I have a hard time typing in response to continued stupid nonsense from storythehut while driving 12 hours and got back home late last night. Go back and learn some history that's actual, from the people involved. Not the BS you like to pretend is facts.

Ronald Reagan was rebuilding our Armed Forces. Standardization was the politically correct excuse. Back in Vietnam, the subject of the range of the Colt was discussed and debated. It was a great tunnel gun but range limited it's ability in many engagements. This was after we assumed use of the M16.

If the US was simply concerned about NATO interoperability, the Colt would have been replaced long before it was. Our guys were taking German Lugers in WWII and using them for their range. The .45's use had debated been ever since and there were many on both sides of the argument.

So, where did I say anything about the choice of Beretta over other makers? Also, where did I say "most tactical engagements take place well beyond the established 21 feet?" You are a dumpster diving tool. And Petey, exactly what "facts" are supposed to have "scared me off."

I don't need to gather information on this one. Toadies, aka Storyfck, already has a Sterling reputation for being a complete dumbass here and on other sites.