Attn: gun experts

[ETD]

Originally Posted by Racer-X

I think this is where the class will come into play. All of your views are changing my thoughts on what I would do. The classes would likely further that, no?

You got it. Good luck and Godspeed.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by Racer-X

I'm seeing your point. So how am I better off without a gun? If he's going to shoot me for his next crack rock - which is better - to be unarmed or hesitating to pull and shoot?

I think this is where the class will come into play. All of your views are changing my thoughts on what I would do. The class would likely further that, no?



Point taken Edited to add: I think I would react very differently with my wife or kids around.

How are you better with one if you fail to employ it?

w/o a gun? It can't be used against you. There's some large percentage of individuals' own weapons being used against them. That's where awareness comes into play. I don't think I've said this enough. But more pointedly, you have no idea what the BG is going to do.

Class? Most definitely. It's more realistic and frank and goes over the pros and cons. It is invaluable for confidence, but it doesn't stop there. You have to be willing to practice after that.

On your edit: that was my point for adding that. It should not come into play in your decision making process. If someone is a danger to you or anyone else, and that danger is to cause great bodily harm or death, then you have to be willing to react and deal with the consequences OR not react and deal with those different, but otherwise very real, consequences.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Come to think of it, I was at a restuarant off of Greenville in Dallas back several years ago and .......... nahhhh couldn't be.

Just Kidding!

Unless you were a 17 year old hispanic adolescent, I think you're in the clear.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

Unless you were a 17 year old hispanic adolescent, I think you're in the clear.

in the clear then. I was a 17 year old hispanic adult

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

in the clear then. I was a 17 year old hispanic adult

Is that in dog years?

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by MarineHawk

Is that in dog years?

Devil Dog, that is.

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by Racer-X

So two votes for the 40 cal. and I'm a fan of S&W.


Alec, ROFLMAO!

I'll go with another vote for the .40, but have to say, unless a person hits the target, even a .50 won't be effective. People knock 9s, but they are used worldwide, and sure do the job of killing someone; with the right ammo.
Military complains about the 9, but they are confined to full metal jacket rounds. Not mentioned so far (I have not read the entire thread) is ammo.
Make sure to use a reliable hollow point ammo (except in NJ, where it was illegal, probably still is).
And as others have said, practice, and I don't mean going to the range and shooting a paper target. Get some defensive shooting lessons from a reliable training facility; moving targets, sitting, close in, night, etc.
Oh, and never trust what a COP says, and even if in writing. Get the scoop from the local prosecutor, he/she is the one who decides will be prosecuted. Not sure about CA laws, but some states do have an affirmative defense clause in the law.
If you get a license, also consider liability insurance. NRA offers some on their website from a third party insurance company and it is good to have, and reasonable in price. Remember, most states do not have laws that protect your from a civil suit if little Johnnie's mom wants to sue, even after little Johnnie shot at your a half-dozen times, and you only shot back in self-defense. I would hazard to guess that CA does not have this law.

[TXSUT]

Racer, maybe I missed something, but I'm a bit confused. You say you would never shoot someone to protect your personal property, and that you won't draw your weapon on someone who has a gun pointed at you. If that is the case, then what good is carrying a handgun going to do you? What is the scenario where you can see yourself using it?

I own several handguns in .40 and .45 for defensive purposes, and unlike DRTY, I feel less felt recoil (and thus more accurate follow-up shots) with my .45s. Generally speaking, the downside to the .45 is that in equivalent handgun sizes, when compared to the .40, you're going to wind up with less capacity. I'm also pretty fond of my Sig Sauer 229 chambered in .357Sig.

Respectfully,

Pete

P.S. Marinehawk and Paragon have given excellent advice thus far, be sure you're not just skimming through their posts if you are serious about carrying a handgun.

[ETD]

Originally Posted by Racer-X

First off, I'm not young
sorry (I'd love to be young myself) I guess I thought that your avatar was a self-portrait.

Second, as I said, normally I'm in great neighborhoods for a given client.

Let me give an example. I'm working for a mortgage broker or bank who's working on a reverse mortgage. 90% I'm in a great neighborhood, 9% scetchy and 1% of the time I'm in da hood.

The same client is literally responsible for say 30% of my companies income. Being picky about where I work and where I don't would lose me the client entirely. It's not a matter of greed, its a matter of survival for myself and my family.

Lots of careers have risks. Minimizing them is the key.

Ahh Soo. Then the solution is even simpler since you are a company man. The company can provide you with a body guard and write it off as a business expense. Also they should realize that they can be liable if something happens to one of their employees while on the job. It seems to me that the expense is trivial if it is only "1%" of your job that takes you into hostile territories especially if the revenue generated is 30% of bottom line. It seems that I am the lone voice advocating for professionals to do the work they are trained to do. Remember, next time you go in for surgery that there is a lot of experience behind that scalpel cutting you and not just that it is the sharpest and best made blade in the world. Owning a weapon for protection from the unknown is one thing (heck I own lots) but knowingly going into hostile territory undermanned and outgunned is another. I know that the marines (God bless them) on this forum are quite cognizant of this basic rule of engagement. They travel in great number in a very orchestrated manner inorder to succumb the enemy all over the world and throughout modern history. Looking from the otherside, the enemy in da hood are for the most part "battle-hardened" (they may be "cowards"?? but they are "battle-hardened cowards"). No way, a few classes can give you that experience. IMHO as someone who has to plug up the holes on the bodies and a student (albeit maybe a "C" student) of the art of war (Eastern). Last $0.02 I have before I defer to the shooters here.

[Ted Kennedy]

Originally Posted by ETD

... as someone who has to plug up the holes on the bodies

I bet you can't plug up the holes in my body. Heh, heh.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by TXSUT

Racer, maybe I missed something, but I'm a bit confused. You say you would never shoot someone to protect your personal property, and that you won't draw your weapon on someone who has a gun pointed at you. If that is the case, then what good is carrying a handgun going to do you? What is the scenario where you can see yourself using it?

I own several handguns in .40 and .45 for defensive purposes, and unlike DRTY, I feel less felt recoil (and thus more accurate follow-up shots) with my .45s. Generally speaking, the downside to the .45 is that in equivalent handgun sizes, when compared to the .40, you're going to wind up with less capacity. I'm also pretty fond of my Sig Sauer 229 chambered in .357Sig.

Respectfully,

Pete

P.S. Marinehawk and Paragon have given excellent advice thus far, be sure you're not just skimming through their posts if you are serious about carrying a handgun.

Ahh, but there is now the Springfield XD .45 ACP that I want to go molest. Good ole .45ACP but with 14 round capacity.

American Rifleman will name it handgun of the year tomorrow.

[MarineHawk]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Ahh, but there is now the Springfield XD .45 ACP that I want to go molest. Good ole .45ACP but with 14 round capacity.

I've got the .40 cal version. And, for some reason, I often shoot better with it than any of my other .40s.

[Racer-X]

Originally Posted by TXSUT

Racer, maybe I missed something, but I'm a bit confused. You say you would never shoot someone to protect your personal property, and that you won't draw your weapon on someone who has a gun pointed at you. If that is the case, then what good is carrying a handgun going to do you? What is the scenario where you can see yourself using it?

Well, I said I wouldn't draw my weapon if someone had a gun pointed at me because my thought was that makes you dead - Not because I wouldn't shoot someone if I felt my life in danger.

Scenario I would use it? About 15 years ago I was working in da hood with my brother. I was inside doing some work and my brother was outside. I looked out the front and a guy had a gun pointed at my brother. I looked to the owner and told her to call 911 and walked outside, maybe it wasn't the smartest move, but hey, it was my little brother. As it turned out he was not willing to use the gun and two of us intimidated him and he backed off and walked away.

On the flip side of that, all 3 of us lived. If I had had a gun I may not be able to say that.

EDT, armed security is of course the ideal solution. However, I can't see a security company working with me on such a limited basis (about 2 hour every couple of months) without much notice. I could be wrong.

[TXSUT]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Ahh, but there is now the Springfield XD .45 ACP that I want to go molest. Good ole .45ACP but with 14 round capacity.

American Rifleman will name it handgun of the year tomorrow.

I got my magazine in the mail yesterday, and it was named as such. Not coincidentally, I'll be buying one tomorrow afternoon.

Still though, it's larger than the XD .40 (but not by much).

[Fubar]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Ahh, but there is now the Springfield XD .45 ACP that I want to go molest. Good ole .45ACP but with 14 round capacity.

American Rifleman will name it handgun of the year tomorrow.

Caliber: .45 ACP
Capacity: 13 + 1
Barrel: 4.04"
Sights: Dovetail front & rear (steel)
Size: 30 ozs. w/ mag., 7.25" overall length
Trigger Pull: 5.5 to 7.7 lbs. Ultra Safety Assurance (USATM) action trigger system
Magazines: 2 Stainless Steel 13 rd., easy glide magazines

Very nice

[H2 Ranger]

I would adjust the trigger pull and add in Aimpoint but then again I would probally go with "PETER STAHL" from the start.

[PARAGON]

Here we go. A 10" long 4lb monster gun. Why not carry a Desert Eagle .50 AE and not have to worry about the extra rounds.

And the last thing I would do would be to put a laser aiming device on it.

[Mr. I - Man]

Quote:And the last thing I would do would be to put a laser aiming device on it.

X2 It gives away your pos and it signals your intentions, However a PAC4 I.R. laser with a gen 4 monocular would be your best bet in a night time urban terrain multiple target scenario