Hybrids Can KILL Emergency Responders!!!

[DRTYFN]

Hybrid drivers =

"If it's not handled properly it's gonna kill you"
SEATTLE -- Right now, 1.5 percent of all cars sold in the U.S. are hybrids, and in three years that number is expected to be six times higher. At some local dealerships they even have waiting lists for customers who want to purchase a hybrid vehicle.

But what makes these cars so desirable, is also creating an extra danger.

The problem starts right under the hood, where most hybrids have bright orange cables carrying high-voltage electricity between the batteries and engine. Those cables can be a hot zone for firefighters responding to collisions involving hybrids.

Emergency responders have an inherently hazardous job, but the proliferation of hybrid vehicles is adding to the potential dangers they face on a daily basis.

The risk of electrocution is very real.

"If it's not handled properly it's gonna kill you," said Seattle firefighter Tim Clark. "You have to understand what it is you're dealing with."

The combination gas-electric vehicles have up to 500 volts running through them, and can also pose a danger to passengers in a crash.

When firefighters are called to high-speed collisions, they often have to cut drivers and passengers out of the mangled vehicles.

But cut in the wrong place on a hybrid car before the battery is disconnected, and it could result in a lethal shock.

Clark says its just one more thing they have to think about when they're rushing to save lives. "If we don't spend a couple seconds on this, we could end up wishing we had," he said.

Camano Island / Stanwood Fire Chief Darin Reid said that because of the complex electrical systems found in hybrid cars, they don't always behave the same way in a crash as traditional vehicles.

"You could very well have a hybrid car moving while on fire," he said. And because the hybrid's electric motor is silent, firefighters can't always tell if it's running.

Reid said that if rescuers wrongly assume that the engine is off, one wrong move could launch the hybrid into drive, with the victim still inside and firefighters on or near the vehicle.

Fore the last seven years, Reid has been teaching everything he knows about hybrids to Washington firefighters. There are some standard do's and don'ts, but he reminds everyone that not all hybrids are the same. The electrical systems vary from one manufacturer to another.

"No company puts the wiring in the same spot," Reid said.

So, many fire departments often rely on the Internet when responding to crashes involving hybrid vehicles. It's not uncommon for firefighters to call up a manufacturer's web site so they can double-check the car's emergency response guidelines.

Matt Stroud, a safety instructor with Toyota, spends much of his time training firefighters on how to safely deal with a Prius at the scene of a crash.

Firefighters will often take field trips to area dealerships to practice disconnecting the car's electrical system.

"All hybrids, including the Prius, have a built-in safety system that's supposed to turn the car off if it's in a crash," Stroud said.

But the hybrid isn't fully safe until the battery is disconnected.

"You've still got a boost factor of 500 volts," Stroud said, referring to a situation when the engine has shut down, but the batteries are still sending electricity through the cables.

In March, a hybrid vehicle crashed into a convenience store in Tacoma and caught fire. Firefighters extinguished the flames, but because they were worried the car was still energized, they called a local dealership to walk them through disconnecting the battery.

Safety is so important to Stroud, he's writing an emergency pocket guide for firefighters -- the first of its kind. Seattle firefighters will be the first in the nation to get the guide.

Reid says the risks are manageable, but that it's crucial to educate rescuers. "When seconds do count, it's a lot less scary if firefighters know what they're up against."

Tim Clark doesn't think it will be much of a problem for area firefighters.

"It's a challenge," he said, "but we like that kind of thing."

Let's see how they like it when we distort things and blow them out of proportion.

[NEOCON1]

little known fact : the EV1 had a very high rate of spontaneous self combustion . there was a lot full of burned up ones at Power-Train in socal , hundreds of em

[DRTYFN]

And that means ...*gasp* MORE GLOBAL WARMING!!!!!
*knee-jerk reaction* Ban the hybrids!!!

[KenP]

Re-Freaking POST!!!!

[usetosellhummer]

hybrids kill! Hummers Save lives

[Agriv8r]

way to go HUMMER...

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by NEOCON1

little known fact : the EV1 had a very high rate of spontaneous self combustion . there was a lot full of burned up ones at Power-Train in socal , hundreds of em

was part of the EV1 project (remember, they were considered Saturn marketed vehicles). We had tons of problems with the Delphi battery packs, but there was NO high rate of spontaneous self-combustion. There was the recall of the original 650 1997 EV1s that had the main battery cable/controller replaced due to a fire hazard, but there were only a few that actually caught fire before the recall. In fact, the vehicle had quite a good safety record. Possibly, what you saw were the recalled vehicles waiting for repairs.
Hundreds? There were only 650 1997 EV1s manufactured, no 1998 vehicles, and only about 450 1999; all manufactured in Lansing MI at the GM craft center. All EV1s were sold in AZ and CA, at only selected Saturn Retailers. At the end of their lease, they were destroyed at the GM Desert Proving Grounds in AZ. That is except for 100 that were shipped to NY and used by GM company employees during the summer months. These were finally destroyed in either 2005 or 2006.
The only remaining EV1; other than those that cannot run and were donated to schools, are located in the GM proving grounds in Milford, MI and some at the GM advanced vehicle center in Troy MI. (There might be one of two left in the Dessrt Proving grounds too.)
Just last week, I passed a green one that runs around the Troy, Madison Heights, Warren, MI area.


As for the original posting, it is true, some of the newer hybrids can be dangerous to work on by anyone. The BAS models that GM is marketing on the VUE, AURA, are only 36 volt hybrid systems with a 12-volt accessory system. These could possibly cause a death, but likely only a really bad jolt. However, the new 300-volt 900 series SUVs and Trucks coming in a few months, can kill someone. GM has trainers that travel the country training first reponders on how to safely work on these vehicles in emergency situations.
For the old EV1 the training was easier to perform since the marketing area of the vehicles was very limited. However, with the newer hybrids from all the manufacturers, the training is a nightmare. The first responder has to know all the different types of "jesus switches." (Don't pull one and put your had in the wrong place...say hello to Jesus.)

[NEOCON1]

hey 5 no pictures but at power-train the old camaro plant in the san fernando valley just south of roscoe and sepulveda that is now storage for all the rydell dealerships and enterprise fleet among other gm storage . there is one section about 2 acres where there are alot of burned up carcuses , some are crashed but most looked to have fire damage . i was surprised when i first saw so many . my hometown of thousand oaks has had them in their city fleet and i had never heard of a problem with them . a member of the gm security said that is what happened to them . at the time it made since , especially after they stoped making them .


my info could be totally wrong it wouldant be the first time maybe it was the battery problem

[NEOCON1]

this was in 2003-2004 .

could these of been one that gm had destroyed intentionaly ????

[DRTYFN]

Originally Posted by KenP

Re-Freaking POST!!!!

Don't you have NEKCAR to watch?

smoking

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by NEOCON1

this was in 2003-2004 .

could these of been one that gm had destroyed intentionaly ????

That could have been the holding area for the vehicles that were to be crushed. I should rephrase my previous post. I do not believe they were actually crushed in GM's DPG, they were stripped of batteries, motors, etc., at DPG, but they may have been shipped somewhere else to be crushed.

We had a crusher in TN, but when we destroyed our two EV1s we had on site, we had to remove all 27 batteries (26 drive and one accessory) to be recycled, drill hole in all electrical components including the motor, controller, charge port (aka toaster), drain all fluids (coolant, oils, fluid, etc.) take photos of all the damage we did, then have a manager to witness the actual crushing of the vehicles.
Our other EV1 was shipped back to Troy MI, and from what I understand is still being driven by company personel.
The vehicles shipped to NY were destroyed the same as we did in TN. I forget their actual destruction date, but I do remember it was after I moved back to Hell (I mean MI ). They had to work with me to authorize the time we were to pay the few selected NY technicians who would be paid to strip the batteries, drain fluids, etc., before crushing.
Personally, the vehicle was a pain in the arse to work on, but fun to drive. Quite fast off the line, but really not good for any trips over 100 miles. After 100 miles you started getting worried about will you make it to where you are going.

[KenP]

Originally Posted by DRTYFN

Don't you have NEKCAR to watch?

Tonight!!!!