Error codes and lots of B.S.

[Scouts Out]

If you have not been reading, my H3 has been plagued by electric bugs. The STAB failed three times driving to Harrisburg, I had to pull over and turn it off, say a quick prayer, and hope it came back on. Once during the trip a "service 4wheel drive" came on. Last two days the H3 started with the Neutral light on the 4x4 selection bar. I took it to the shop this am and it came up with the following error codes.... DTC C0327, C0276 Keywords 4493, 4494 and PIP3701.

They said they reset the "compter". Of course the error messages all came back on at once, One the way home the Stab failurer, service 4 wheel drive and Traction control failure all came on. Once home, I shut if off, started it back up and all was well. I am taking it back down on Wednesday to let them have it for a little.

I did an informal survey of the 5 H3 owner all in the waiting room (two gray, one superior blue (mine), one green, and one black. Every one had the broken plastic. One was there for a misaligned pulley causing squealing (they told him they had a hummer notice of this), one for a failure of the power window in the right rear, one for clunking in the gears, and mine and another for the warnings. Everyone was please with the H3 so far, all were very pleased with the Dealership and Service department. The service Department was one of the best I ever had dealt with. Lets hope They fix it Wednesday since I am to be on the road to Paragon on Thursday,

Any idea about what the codes mean?

[Scouts Out]

If you have not been reading, my H3 has been plagued by electric bugs. The STAB failed three times driving to Harrisburg, I had to pull over and turn it off, say a quick prayer, and hope it came back on. Once during the trip a "service 4wheel drive" came on. Last two days the H3 started with the Neutral light on the 4x4 selection bar. I took it to the shop this am and it came up with the following error codes.... DTC C0327, C0276 Keywords 4493, 4494 and PIP3701.

They said they reset the "compter". Of course the error messages all came back on at once, One the way home the Stab failurer, service 4 wheel drive and Traction control failure all came on. Once home, I shut if off, started it back up and all was well. I am taking it back down on Wednesday to let them have it for a little.

I did an informal survey of the 5 H3 owner all in the waiting room (two gray, one superior blue (mine), one green, and one black. Every one had the broken plastic. One was there for a misaligned pulley causing squealing (they told him they had a hummer notice of this), one for a failure of the power window in the right rear, one for clunking in the gears, and mine and another for the warnings. Everyone was please with the H3 so far, all were very pleased with the Dealership and Service department. The service Department was one of the best I ever had dealt with. Lets hope They fix it Wednesday since I am to be on the road to Paragon on Thursday,

Any idea about what the codes mean?

[f5fstop]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">C0327 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
C0327 - The transfer case shift control module reads back a high voltage when a low voltage is expected, or low voltage when a high voltage is expected on the encoder channel circuits, or the encoder signal return circuit.

C0326 - The transfer case selected range has been reported as invalid by the transmission control module (TCM). Or, rear differential status has been reported as locked by the TCM when the vehicle speed is greater than 50 km/h (31 mph) for 10 seconds

The keywords (4493, 4494 and PIP3701) are noted in a PI where engineering is asking for more information from the dealerships on what they find when performing certain procedures. This information is needed since engineering is trying to figure out why the problem is happening. It doesn't say, but it might be that a particular part is being replaced, yet engineering is testing that part and finding nothing wrong. Therefore, the actual repair might be accidental due to something as simple as seating the connector correctly upon replacement of the part. (Connector not installed correctly, tech replaces part, and now connects the connector properly. Customer does not come back, tech believes the replacement of the part fixed the condition, but engineering can't find a fault with the part when returned for testing.)

I'll be curious, I got the stab/traction control failed yesterday when starting my vehicle. Made an appointment with the dealer for this morning. We talked a bit, and from his experience the usual cause is the encoder motor; something I have also heard, as well as a TCCM replacement or reprogram.

If engineering gets enough information from the dealers, they can then duplicate the problem, and at that time work toward a fix. If a connector problem, talk to the plant to make sure they seat the connector correctly. If a part problem, work with the supplier to fix the problems.

I guess it falls under the category of "sh*t happens." Believe me, I don't like the idea of getting up an hour earlier than usual to take the vehicle into the dealer. But I do know that first year vehicles tend to have more problems, and all man-made machines break. I will say for a first year vehicle, so far, mine has been great.

As for the cracked upper rails, that is a known problem and being hotly discussed in the General H3 forum. The fix is coming, but not until May when new designed parts will be released. At least the crack is hard to see, and there is no problem from this crack, other than looks. Water intrusion is not a concern. do recommend waiting until the new designed rails are released. No use having the tech replace the rails with new rails that may crack again. This causes more stress on the fasteners in the roof. In addition, at the time of the new rails, there will be new A-Pillar molding released that have a better fit to the upper rail.

Pulley squealing is a known problem, primarily with early vehicles (I'll have mine fixed when at the dealer, been putting it off for many months). Power window failure, that is a new one, and hopefully just a fluke. (It was a very common problem with C5 Vettes, though.)

Clunking of gears, first I heard of this, that is unless he is talking about when you are engaging 4-Low or the locking rear axle. When engaging 4-Low or the locking axle, a clunk is quite normal.

Hope they get your vehicle repaired.

[Scouts Out]

Thank you f5fstop. I drove it to the gym yesterday and no trouble warnings at all. Today , all the warnings were going off again. I am taking it back down tomorrow and they said they will keep it as long as they need to get it fixed. The other guys in the repair shop they day said occasionally they would get teh stab error but it seemed to reset itself in a few seconds. I have begun a journal to see if anything in particular sets off the warning bells and how often they go off. I have confidence they will resolve it this visit.

[f5fstop]

It's the TCCM, and on national backorder. Picked the vehicle up and ran it into the shop and yes, the diagnosis leads me to believe they are correct.
My old boss at Saturn is the director for powertrain brand quality and in charge of all the powertrain brand quality managers. Having lunch with him in the next few days.

[Scouts Out]

OK, you have to plain speak to me, what is the TCCM? I know what the TCM is but the TCCM is a new part. Is it going to damage anything by driving it with the warnings flashing? And if it is on "national Backorder" does that mean they will keep my H3 until it is back? I am not sure how you get all this information but you are a great source of infor and I thank you for your help

[f5fstop]

TCCM (also known as the TCSCM) is the Transfer Case Control Module (Transfer Case Shift Control Module), two names the same part.

It is a small control module that is located on the end of the passenger side of the I/P, just under the end cover. Easy to replace, easy to reprogram after replacing. It is used to control the transfer case and the rear locker, if so equipped.

You can still drive the vehicle, but you cannot lock the transfer case; you will still have the unlocked 40F/60R 4x4 system. You just cannot lock it into HI/LO or Lock the rear axle if you have a rear locker.

The STAB SYS/TRACTION FAIL SERVICE will still broadcast across your DIC, unless you press the reset button which turn it off. However, the traction control idiot light will still be on.

Does not affect anything other than the ability for the traction control and stability control to operate, and the little 4x4 indicator lights will be off. I will be driving mine until the new part comes in for replacement.

I did some checking, and the reason the dealer programmed the module was there was an issue that a re-program could fix. But it had to have certain codes (B0790, B2725, C0359). If it had other codes, the dealer is to troubleshoot the codes to narrow it down to either the TCCM or the encoder module (motor) on the transfer case.

(A TCM is a transmission or transaxle control module and it is what controls a transaxle or transmission (depending on what unit is used). Some cars have a TCM and an ECM (engine control module), some like the H3 has a powertrain control module that contains the circuitry for both the ECM and the TCM.)

[Scouts Out]

Well I am now at least as smart as the service manager who when I call and discussed this knew of none of it. Say he has a H3lux waiting for me until the part comes in which he feels should only be a day or two.

[f5fstop]

I can't say when the part will be in, but I did a parts check through GM dealerworld yesterday, and it showed no parts available. Now, they can place an emergency order and get them sooner, and parts may be coming in one door and going out the back door on the same day.
All I can say is it MIGHT be more than one day, but since I don't work for parts, I cannot verify this.

[Scouts Out]

I took my H3 to the service department today, dropped it off so they can have it tomorrow. They said they have ordered an encoder, a tmmc, a tmc (are they the same thing?) and a few other parts. The service manager was telling me he had never seen all the warnings on at one time so I used my cam phone to record it. I am not sure it help solve the problem but removed any doubts it was happening. He said three days is the longest they have had to keep a vehicle. I hope not to break that record

[f5fstop]

I'm not getting the service 4 wheel drive, only Serv Stab Sys/Traction Failed.
Which reminds me, I'm headed off to check the TCCM wiring schematic. I'm curious about something....

Good luck

[Planohummer]

stab syst/trac failed can be a simple brake switch adjustment. Both of those with the 4wd failure message and 4wd buttons not lighting up is a different issue. for some reason, cold weather snaps aggravate the condition. GM and Borg-Warner(xfer case mfr) are ACTIVELY involved at this point. Even when TCCMs are replaced, problem still pops up at times.

[SDH3]

Well it has been 3K miles since the dealer replaced the encoder motor and have'nt got any more messages, and I had them all, stab. & traction failure, service 4x4, and no lights on 4x controls. Got my truck in Nov.,gone most of Dec., computers got hacked, virus spewed etc.,one doesn't work at all, and it takes forever to open and read anything. Anyhow, I am very happy with this truck, and want to thank the members of this forum for helping me to make my decision to purchase a Hummer product.

[MUDSUX]

Can someone please tell me how to adjust the brake switch adjustment? I am tired of bringing my truck in to the dealer (3x already) and not getting anything accomplished. I'll just do it myself and hope it will fix everything-I'm having all the same problems as Dscott. Thanks

[Scouts Out]

hey MUDSUX, is your H3 and early model? The only way I know to tell the difference would be the serial number or the way I knew, the H3 accessories were before the first of two make ups. I wonder if the issue might be an early model problem. The only other issue was when I started the H3 is occasionally it starts in teh neutral pot instead of the 4hi. The service manager is on top of things, I gave him the f5fstop quiz and he was on top of it. They also ordered the cargo area cover clip that snapped on a cold day from the tension just from the cargo cover. The service is first class so far

[f5fstop]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Planohummer:
stab syst/trac failed can be a simple brake switch adjustment. Both of those with the 4wd failure message and 4wd buttons not lighting up is a different issue. for some reason, cold weather snaps aggravate the condition. GM and Borg-Warner(xfer case mfr) are ACTIVELY involved at this point. Even when TCCMs are replaced, problem still pops up at times. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Correct if the brake light switch is out of adjustment, normally only the stab error is flashed (indicator lights are not affected). (This is from a GM PI: A large number of brake stop lamp switches are being returned to the Warranty Parts Return Center for the customer complaint of Stabilitrak light on and a DIC message of service Stabilitrak system. The stop light switches are found to be functional. Please assure that the switch is properly adjusted as outlined in SI document number 1605842 prior to replacing the switch.
In addition, another problem could be a the program internal to the TCCM. Bulletin #05-04-21-006 covered this problem, but for the reprogram, the following codes would be displayed: B0790, B2725, C0359, and the vehicle would have been built before two specific VINs (depending on content).
I do know from a friend, the TCCM, BCM and Encoder modules are being replaced when not necessary. There are other things such as bad connectors, loose connectors, etc., that can cause the same problems. Service engineering is working on the problem, but so far from what I can find out, nothing has been locked in as the root cause of these problems. Eventually, the warranty will rise to the point that an engineering Red X team will take over and work on just this one item until the root cause is found, that the problem repaired.

Normally, but not necessarily true at all times, if the four wheel drive message is also displayed, it is the encoder motor, if only stab and traction with no lights, it is the TCCM. But that is not always been true, so a tech who knows how to perform the required diagnostics to locate the actual problem is required.
Some dealers are getting so frustrated, they are throwing parts at the problem, and the problem might have been a connector not seated properly, but when the component is replaced, the tech then installs the connector properly and they believe the part was bad.
When returned to the WPC, no trouble is found. This only happens when a tech does not check all the connections when troubleshooting.

As for the brake switch adjustement:
1. Rotate the switch counterclockwise, allowing the retainer to release.
2. Pull the brake pedal rearward to full stop.
Important: Do not move the brake pedal during switch adjustment as this will cause an over-adjusted switch which could cause brake drag.


3. While holding the brake pedal FIRMLY in position rearward, push the switch inward fully until the switch body contacts the brake pedal arm striker plate. At this point the plunger in the switch should be pushed in.
4. Rotate the switch clockwise until a "click" is heard.
5. The switch is properly adjusted when there is 7 mm (0.028 in) clearance between the end of the switch barrel and the striker plate on the brake pedal arm.

If I'm not mistaken the brake switch is the switch on the left, the right switch is for TCC Brake/Cruise release.

[Scouts Out]

OK, the service manager called me back and gave me pretty silly sounding answer. They said GM does not want them swapping parts till the did some programming (I understand that part). so what he says they had to do was push the dash buttons (4x4 lights) in a sequence for "something like 50 times". Now they want permission to drive it 50 miles (wonder if they will ensure the fuel tank is at the same level as it was when I dropped it since they will do that to the rental). This sounds to like they did nothing today because they could not get it to error while they had it. I can not imagine having to press buttons 50 time in sequence to reset the PMC (oh yeah that is the new part they claim may not be talking to the other parts). This is beginning to remind me of why I have not bought a GM in 15 years

[f5fstop]

Personally, I have never heard of anything like that, but maybe, just maybe, they are trying to do some type of checks to help narrow the problem. Could be one of the TAC guys having a brain storm (or brain fart).
Some things that seem strange, sometime finds the problem. It appears your problem is intermittent, which is different than mine, my warnings are always on.
As for the policy about switching out modules. I see no restriction on this part, and my dealer had no problems. However, this is a big problem at GM (and I assume with all manufacturers), the switching of modules but not fixing the problem. BCM's were replaced like some people replace wives, and the failure rate was about 10% of those returned.
The Tech 2 can be used to check signals and see if modules are talking with other modules. Basically, the TCCM just sends a signal to the PCM that 4 lock has been engaged, and the remaining discussion between modules (BCM, TCCM and PCM) takes place on the serial data circuit.
Let's hope the dealer is being straight, I guess they have no reason to lie about it.

[Planohummer]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by dscott:
OK, the service manager called me back and gave me pretty silly sounding answer. They said GM does not want them swapping parts till the did some programming (I understand that part). so what he says they had to do was push the dash buttons (4x4 lights) in a sequence for "something like 50 times". Now they want permission to drive it 50 miles (wonder if they will ensure the fuel tank is at the same level as it was when I dropped it since they will do that to the rental). This sounds to like they did nothing today because they could not get it to error while they had it. I can not imagine having to press buttons 50 time in sequence to reset the PMC (oh yeah that is the new part they claim may not be talking to the other parts). This is beginning to remind me of why I have not bought a GM in 15 years </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
It's actually a Borg-Warner engineer telling them about the 50 cycle issue. B-W is under the impression the 4wd issue is due to electrical/feedback contacts not being cleaned during xfer case assembly. The rationale behind the repeated cycling is to attempt to clean the contacts. Jury is still out...

[f5fstop]

I can see this with intermittent problems, but I have to ask, contacts in what, the encoder (I assume encoder since you say in the case)? If so, why not just replace the encoder, not a hard job, and not an expensive item, and then send the encoder back through WPC and let BW do the testing in house.
This at least does not trouble the customer.
If BW finds this is a problem, then they correct the issue in house, and any new encoders installed at the plant or in service should have nice clean contacts.

I would have hoped that with the number already replaced, BW would have been able to confirm this in house. Before anything is said, I know, during the removal and return shipment, particles can move. However, as with the old infamous Stanadyne injector used on the diesel, if the case is opened in a clean room, the specs will show.

Just my opinion, but that type of feedback is not my job anymore .