WARNING ON RACNHO LIFT

[timgco]

Many of you have been following my post on the Rancho 4" lift. I thouhgt I'd share why the lift is coming back off of my truck.

#1 reason; 16", 17", 18" tires will fit with the proper offset, however, the steering knuckle is less than 1/4" from touching the tire. So if you ever plan on off roading and airing down, the sidewall of your tire will touch and get trashed with their "required" 4.5" offest. I had to use a 1'4" wheel spacer so it would not touch the tire at the required aired up ammount.

when I called Rancho about this, they said the kit was desigend for a 20" rim with 5" of offset. using a smaller diameter rim will not allow for airing down. WTF is is good for than?

#2 reason: Your tires will stick out 3" to 4" at the top of the fenders. They stick out much more towards the bottoms of your flares. FOr those of you with the stock 33" tires and have driven through snow/ mud have seen what happens to your door/ door handles, and fender flares. Now take that X 10 and you can imagine what that looks like. This means the sides of your truck will be trashed in no time. After only 300 miles or so, the truck is already getting rock chips though the paint and the rear fender flares will look like swiss cheese in a couple thousand miles.

#3 Reason: When you get at highway speeds, the truck does not feel very stable at all. If you drive 75mph or higher on a daily basis, I would not get this lift.

On a positive note, this lift gives the truck a very aggresive stance and handles OK at 55mph or under. You will feel the tires grab your steering wheel on grooved surfaces or at places the road has those "trenches" in the blacktop from heavy trucks. But it's not too bad. You will get a ton of improved ground clearance, ap angle, and dp angle. You will also get somew vibration in the steering wheel and floor boards.

So, there's my 2 cents on this lift.

[Operator24]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
Raaaarrrrh!!!1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You got me there... .. . ? Good one.

[H3 Guy]

myxH3 agreed, although trackbar plays little if any role. My point was that bumpsteer is not the same as an IFS as stated by someone else. With a rack and pin setup, the placement of the rack in reference to the tie rod end location ( along with A arm length) is what gives you bumpsteer.

[Operator24]

Son? From the pic I see of you on your bike on another thread, you are old enough to be my father. I can't fix that for you and for that I'm sorry.

[H3 Guy]

Regardless which kit you go with, the tires are going to sit outside of the fender at the same location. Rancho does it by using new wheels and Rough Country does it on the design of the knuckle. IMO a knuckle is not meant to have the higher moments and forces this way.

[Operator24]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Anonymous:
How many "competetive racing Jeeps" have you seen lately? While I'll admit they are excellent four wheelers and can be built into awesome rock crawlers, nonecould be considered "racing" vehicles. ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Ever heard of Jeepspeed? Its an entire class of cherokees that race all over the country.

Ever heard of UROC? ARCA? Jeeps and tube buggies all competing in rockcrawling events...and it is a race. You're timed. Therefore those are race trucks.

EDITED: (I think I missunderstood you originally Anonymous, sorry) I don't know what you mean by "race" vehicles but you're not comparing apples to apples here. Jeeps and baja trucks were designed to do two different things. Neither can do the other well. I don't see many baja trucks crawling in Lucern and yea, you don't see jeeps wining the baja 1000.

But this topic is less about jeeps vs. hummers than it is about rancho sucking ass at anything more than street wheeling. Lets focus here people.

[MyxH3]

LOL so are you selling it then?

[Operator24]

Do you really think I nominated him son?

Please tell me you're not that gullable. Kids these days...

I bet you think the rancho kit is best thing since sliced bread because the guy at 4 wheel parts says it is!

[NEOCON1]

have also heard of inside tire damage from another when aired down , was at conejo offroad " local shop " the other day they didant have much nice to say about rancho and no info on the 5in yet .

[H3 Guy]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MyxH3:
I also have a Jeep with a RC 6" lift and it performs great with zero bumpsteer, articulates great, has plenty of clearance and allows me to use 33" tires without rubbing without any funky backspacing problems. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you get bumpsteer with a straight axle?

[4churchill]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Operator24:
Do you really think I nominated him son?
</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Operator24:
Here, I'm operator24. 24 is for the age. I'm currently 23 but that will change in early january so I'm just being efficient , </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How can a 23 year old have a son old enough to own a HUMMER?

[Operator24]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Operator24:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Alec W:
Whatdiddickforbrainssay? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well that was constructive. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thx </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I took the liberty of nominating you here because of you're outstanding display earlier...

http://www.thestupidawards.com/

I bet you win the '06 award hands down.

[Operator24]

I plowed through 2 sets of rancho rs9000s on a Jeep TJ a few years ago. They lasted about a year each and then clearly lost their charge and drove like hell. They were a nice shock when I bought them though... just didn't last long. Seems to be the rancho motto: Great out of the box, not a friend of durability. I was a weekend wheeler though, that jeep saw heavy use every 6 days.

Bilstien makes a top notch shock. Fox makes a nice one too. Both of those will last. Fox stuff can all be rebuilt and recharged too.

[crop000s]

Thanks for letting us know. I hate that it didn't work out like it should have. Seems like they rushed through the R&D to get it ready to market.

[Rancho]

Hello members!
It has been brought to our (Rancho Suspension) attention a few posts about one of our products. We are in no way trying to say anybody’s opinion is incorrect, we just want a chance to stand behind our product and let the consumers know the facts about our products.


1.) Clearance to Knuckle. When you air down a tire, your clearance from the knuckle will increase and not decrease. The moment when clearance is at the minimum is when a tire is over inflated and has a high impact directly on the tire. The tire will not expand more once a tire is aired down. During our offroad testing, we used 4.75” BS wheels on a 16” wheel. I agree the clearance in that situation is close but it will not hit. The wheel and tire are fixed to the knuckle and the clearance will not change in articulation. A ¼” is a lot more clearance than most other vehicles out on the road. Take a look at any newer Dodge 1500 IFS and realize the aluminum knuckle (which will flex more than a ductile iron knuckle) has less clearance. We would not recommend a wheel and tire combo that, to the best of our knowledge, will not work in all situations including offroading. All of our recommended tire sizes are at 12.50” wide max. If someone picks a wide wheel and wide tire combo outside of our recommended, this may be a different scenario. We do not have enough time to purchase every wheel and tire combination (and different brands) to fit check. Please consult your local wheel and tire specialist and they should be able to help you out. I noticed a response regarding Rancho was contacted for a similar situation and replied with you are to use 20” wheels to clear the knuckle. There is no record of this call and we would be more than happy to look in to this for you.
2.) Tires Sticking Out. We agree that the tires stick out more than OE. To maintain proper caster and camber curves this is mandatory. Rancho does not believe in sacrificing OE geometry and in fact we always try to improve it for offroad handling as well as maintaining the same driver feeling on the road. The two ways to maintain OE geometry are to move the hub section of the knuckle further out (as you increase the upper ball joint neck) or to just increase the upper ball joint neck. By moving the hub section out you can fit OE wheels on, but the end result of track width is exactly the same. I am fairly confident that if you measure the finished front track width they will be the same. Rancho does not believe in moving the hub section out because the end result will be higher forces on the knuckle which could lead to fatigue failure over time.
3.) Highway Speed Stability. We looked at some of the photos of Timgco’s truck and concluded that the torsion bars are cranked too high. The half shafts and the lower control arms are at a greater angle than our vehicle and all the SEMA vehicles we have installed (again, this is assuming from photos, need measurements to be 100%). This will give a result of instability at high speed. The H3 is designed to ride on the OE bumpstops and they act by adding damping and as a light spring. Unless you upgrade the torsion bars, you will have this feeling. When the vehicle is off the bumpstops, it feels like its floating in the air. We noticed this sensation even with a stock vehicle by removing the OE bumpstops. This is the reason why Rancho feels it is very important to reuse the OE bumpstops on this vehicle (especially with 35” tires or any heavy wheel / tire combo). We are disappointed the install shop set the torsion bars to the incorrect height and wish you would have called the Rancho Techline.
4.) Wheel and Tire Sizes. When we do a SEMA project vehicle, we choose a theme. The theme is carried down to the wheel / tire combo as well. What we install on the vehicle is not what the consumer needs to do (and I do apologize if the Techline did in fact tell you this). The management here wanted an adventurous theme to the vehicle and we picked 20” wheels to work with. Since GM and SMA did rugged and outdoors, Dub Air did blingy, we want to give the consumer a different look than the others. If you look at the recommended tire / wheel combo, it does not say anywhere that 20” wheels are required as some posts have reflected. 16”, 17”, and 18” wheels need 4.5” backspacing.
5.) Bumpsteer. Rancho emphasizes on reducing OE bumpsteer while still being able to fit within the same wheel size as OE.
6.) Dropping the Front Differential. We noticed some companies are coming out with kits that do not drop the front differential and giving new half shafts. In our opinion, we do not like this method. Not only does it introduce more moving parts as well as longer install, it creates a new issue for repair 10 years down the road. Most lift kit companies obsolete their kits after the vehicle is more than 10 years old. Specialty replacement parts are not easy to come by after a kit is obsolete. If you plan on taking the kit off as soon at the kits are obsolete this will not be a concern. Rancho thrives to reuse as much OE parts as possible for quick and easy repair. There are not any parts on the Rancho kit that should require maintenance or repair.
7.) Torsion Bar System. Because the torsion bar crossmember is welded to the frame, relocating the torsion bars was not a feasible idea. We noticed (including ours) three different ways companied have pursued this. One company left everything in the same location. Once you see the bending on the torsion bar you realize this could not be good. The other option was a linkage system. The option we picked was a rigid device from Realift. We felt that less moving parts would be less failure, repair, and maintenance while maintaining the same torsional effect. We also used the Realift locator to simplify installation.
Let me reiterate that we are not trying to start controversy, just to back our product. If you have any questions about our product feel free to private message me and we can set up a time to chat. We did 8 vehicles for the SEMA show and each one is a driven daily with no complaints. The H3 is a unique vehicle that not many companies will attempt due to the complexity. We stand behind our products and feel it will be the best available product for a reasonable price. For those who are not aware, this kit did win SEMA Best Offroad Product for 2006. I also ask please do not post reply for bashing the company and giving your personal opinion on a product you are not familiar with. Once again please contact me if you have any questions or comments. We will not be monitoring this post so please use the private messaging.
Rancho

[Operator24]

If thats how you want to "tuck the tail and run" then so be it. I was just getting warmed up.

EDIT: I think TIM's truck is cool. Seems like a nice guy, trying all these kits for us!

[PARAGON]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by H3 Guy:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MyxH3:
I also have a Jeep with a RC 6" lift and it performs great with zero bumpsteer, articulates great, has plenty of clearance and allows me to use 33" tires without rubbing without any funky backspacing problems. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How do you get bumpsteer with a straight axle? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>You can the same way you get it with IFS. All bump steer is, is a very temporary toe misalignment.

[timgco]

WOW! They replied.

It would have been nice to have this feedback when I was going through the issues. Their tech dept. was less than helpful to me personally. I'm not syaing Rancho is a compitant company. All I can say it T&)$ in their tech/ installation dept. was less than helpful. It's too bad this kit didn't work out, because I LOVED the look of this kit for the most part. What Rancho commented on the knuckle being close and not touching is tru to an extent. they didn't take into consideration the fact the sidewall of the tire will flex on top alos... not just the buttom. I was able to stuff that knuckle into the sidewall of the tire on an incline and turning. Maybe I had the wrong the wheel setup. ??? All I know is I paid $600 not to have their lift on my truck and did not get the help I should have from Rancho when I needed it.

[Operator24]

Yea yea. Whatever.

[NEOCON1]

yea lets hear it for the camaro