Supercharger vs. Headers and all the upgrades...

[Spenser]

I received a response from Klaus this morning (many thanks) that has me thinking. While at the dealer for service, I made reference to wishing that my H2 had a little more "pep". The rep responds with options that included, Headers, catback exhaust, computer reprograming, and cool Air intake. These were the options unless I wanted to go with the Supercharger. The Supercharger was priced to me at $11,000.00 which seemed a bit much after reading responses here. Well, I opted for the reprogramed computer, catback exhaust, and the cool air intake, and while stressing the importance of wanting to keep the "quiet cabin" ride as in my business I didn't want to have to talk over a loud exhaust, nor be on trips and get a headache from the harmonics. Dealer say's the catback exhaust (volant) would be almost factory quiet, and I'd see a major difference. Then I mentioned the more "pep" in town, and the dealer says the best bet there would be to add the Headers, as with the exhaust it would remain quiet, so therefore I reluctantly had them add those as well. They had her 4 days, got her back, drove like ****, saw little to no difference for the money and was VERY loud throughout acceleration and highway speeds. Took it back, they changed the exhaust to a B&B and recalibrated the computer, picked it up lastnight under the understanding that I'd drive it over the holiday weekend and decide what I wanted to do. I can remove the headers to quiet it down even more (per them) or change whatever I want, even remove most of the upgrades and move upto the Supercharger. Well, she runs much better now, is a little quieter, however still pretty aggressive sounding. I really don't see the $5,000.00 difference I paid and I'm about to have them put her back to full blown stock, keep the cool air intake, and the computer program, and find someone who is reliable to add the Suppercharger for half of what they want, although if they don't do it there's the warranty issue. (They claim that the reason I pay so much is that they warrant all add ons to match the factory warranty. I love my H2, I really do, I was just wanting a little more response from her, here in town, and hope I could gain a bit more power on the open road when heading uphill. I really appreciate the responses here, The dealer now wants to have me change the gears and add a double core radiator for cooling, I feel I'm spending money, and a lot of it, but I'm heading in the wrong direction, and not getting the real "bang" for my buck. I've got three days to decide, and I'm a bit lost here. I'm not a race around town, loud exhaust, mean sounding ride, kind of guy. I think the dealer is thinking only about the $$ factor and isn't listening to what I'm wanting here. To me, you guys are the experts as you've "been there, done that" and I need some help here which will be greatly appreciated. Have a great weekend and as always, thanks.

Kevin (casey2)
2005 Stealth Grey SUV
Just a little mixed up presently.

[Spenser]

I received a response from Klaus this morning (many thanks) that has me thinking. While at the dealer for service, I made reference to wishing that my H2 had a little more "pep". The rep responds with options that included, Headers, catback exhaust, computer reprograming, and cool Air intake. These were the options unless I wanted to go with the Supercharger. The Supercharger was priced to me at $11,000.00 which seemed a bit much after reading responses here. Well, I opted for the reprogramed computer, catback exhaust, and the cool air intake, and while stressing the importance of wanting to keep the "quiet cabin" ride as in my business I didn't want to have to talk over a loud exhaust, nor be on trips and get a headache from the harmonics. Dealer say's the catback exhaust (volant) would be almost factory quiet, and I'd see a major difference. Then I mentioned the more "pep" in town, and the dealer says the best bet there would be to add the Headers, as with the exhaust it would remain quiet, so therefore I reluctantly had them add those as well. They had her 4 days, got her back, drove like ****, saw little to no difference for the money and was VERY loud throughout acceleration and highway speeds. Took it back, they changed the exhaust to a B&B and recalibrated the computer, picked it up lastnight under the understanding that I'd drive it over the holiday weekend and decide what I wanted to do. I can remove the headers to quiet it down even more (per them) or change whatever I want, even remove most of the upgrades and move upto the Supercharger. Well, she runs much better now, is a little quieter, however still pretty aggressive sounding. I really don't see the $5,000.00 difference I paid and I'm about to have them put her back to full blown stock, keep the cool air intake, and the computer program, and find someone who is reliable to add the Suppercharger for half of what they want, although if they don't do it there's the warranty issue. (They claim that the reason I pay so much is that they warrant all add ons to match the factory warranty. I love my H2, I really do, I was just wanting a little more response from her, here in town, and hope I could gain a bit more power on the open road when heading uphill. I really appreciate the responses here, The dealer now wants to have me change the gears and add a double core radiator for cooling, I feel I'm spending money, and a lot of it, but I'm heading in the wrong direction, and not getting the real "bang" for my buck. I've got three days to decide, and I'm a bit lost here. I'm not a race around town, loud exhaust, mean sounding ride, kind of guy. I think the dealer is thinking only about the $$ factor and isn't listening to what I'm wanting here. To me, you guys are the experts as you've "been there, done that" and I need some help here which will be greatly appreciated. Have a great weekend and as always, thanks.

Kevin (casey2)
2005 Stealth Grey SUV
Just a little mixed up presently.

[Klaus]

Kevin,

The dealership is robbing you bind. I bought my SC for $4400 and my dealership installed it for $600. I believe you would be much happier with the $5K spent on a SC instead of the bolt-ons.

I've been involved with muscle cars on and off for 25 years. Bolt-ons can only do so much.

BTW - I'm looking for a 1971 Plymouth GTX/Roadrunner with a 440, A/C, PS, PB, and AT. There's one on ebay, but the guy is asking too much for it. If anyone knows of one for sale, let me know!

eBay GTX

[lexpro]

I was thinking of getting a S/C and change it from 05 to 06 when i get a new one but with all the speculation of a different engine option becoming available i cant do the 5k$,,,,,

[Spenser]

Klaus,

Thanks I appreciate it, I've spent $5475.00 including tax for, headers, computer reprogram (they claim they have written their own program) cool air box (volant without the tube, they changed the box only, everything else is stock) and a B&B stainless steel exhaust system. Now since I've mentioned that it still seems "sluggish" at "in town" driving around speeds, (transmission shift points contribute highly to this I think) they say I need to change the gears to the 4.56, and then, of course, I'll need the oversized radiator as with the gears, and headers, the engine will run hotter and the increased cooling capacity will add life/years to the engine. As I've said, I have till Tuesday, then it goes back in (new compressor pump for the air ride)and They say that they'll do whatever I want. The reps that pushed the parts, and made the claims, were there when this all came about, but have since(2 weeks ago) have left. So my position is that the claims were those of someone that just wanted to make commission, the rep I have now seems sincere, and and hase been there for a few years, and he tells me the headers were a bad idea for the money ($1795.00 installed) in his opinion as he's only seen them installed on 2 other H2's and claims that if I have them taken off, the exhaust will be quieter with the B&B currently installed. Question is this, they sell the magana Supercharger, or Magnason, whichever applies, so why then would my warranty be void if I had a shop install it instead of the dealer, (at half the cost) if the dealer installs the very same bolt on? They charge me $795.00 for the Volant coor air intake, and $1295.00 for the computer reprogram, $1495 for the exhaust, and $1795 for the headers. I'm wondering if I should keep the intake and the computer program, get rid of the exhaust and headers, and have someone here on the site recommend a realiable shop here in Phoenix to install a Supercharger and be done with it. Opinions? Again, I appreciate the responses and concerns.


Best,


Kevin (casey2)
2005 Stealth Gray H2 SUV

[KenP]

BS on the gears, the prices and everything they've told you. Have them take just about everything back that they will! Order the SC from Klaus's guy and get it installed locally. Since your HUMMER dealer is full of crap, check other GM dealers or speed shops in the area.

You don't need the $1300 program because the SC comes with a programmer. Keep in mind, the truck will be louder with the SC under load.

Just keep the exhaust, unless they have your original and can put it back on also. Once you find a reputable installer, you can alway order those parts and have them installed by the new guys.

Sorry, but what that dealership is doing really pisses me off. Again, BS on the gears.

[Spenser]

Thanks Ken, I advised the rep of the TSB addressing the "frame pop" issue and the remedy, which was replacement of the stock exhaust. Since this is a unresolved issue with my H2 currently, should I decide to go back to all stock, this shouldn't be an issue. It would appear to be a better idea to go back to full blown stock, and learn of a reputable shop of established reliability here in Phoenix to do the work, including the Supercharger, for a lot less money. I wanted to spend the weekend deciding, and reading the responses here to assist me with my decision. I had checked on an extended warranty as well and after quotes they tell me that I need to decide prior to hitting 12,000 miles or the prices will increase, (I'm at 11,100 currently). Thanks for the help, it's greatly appreciated.

Kevin (casey2)
2005 Stealth Grey H2 SUV

[Spenser]

Ken, I really can't go to another H2 dealer as you've suggested as all 3 dealerships here are owned by the same family! So far they have been very accomadating over the whole issue, hey, I'm not saying it doesn't drive better now, just not $5400.00 worth as was promised. And as far as Supercharger noise under a load? Well, that would be music to my ears I'm certain. Thanks again.

Kevin (casey2)
2005 Stealth Grey H2 SUV

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by casey2:
Ken, I really can't go to another H2 dealer as you've suggested as all 3 dealerships here are owned by the same family! So far they have been very accomadating over the whole issue, hey, I'm not saying it doesn't drive better now, just not $5400.00 worth as was promised. And as far as Supercharger noise under a load? Well, that would be music to my ears I'm certain. Thanks again.

Kevin (casey2)
2005 Stealth Grey H2 SUV </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Turn the volumn waaaay up: http://www.lingenfelter.com/0-60.mpeg

[ROX]

casey: They told you they wrote their own computer program? That is a bunch of c r a p.
I'd have them take everything off. Like Ken said the SC does come with it's own programmer.

Another question about these parts would be: Does a SC come with new headers and cats?
Good Luck.

[H2 Bill]

You were overcharged for everything that they did!! Have them take it all off and start over again like Ken has said. Get the supercharger, headers and exhaust from someone that is honest and knows what they are doing. You won't be disappointed.

[Klaus]

Also, I might suggest that you avoid the "shotgun approach" to adding performance parts to your truck. Add only one thing at a time. Have the supercharger installed first and see how it runs. Then add the headers/exhaust, and see how it runs. That way you will know how each mod changed how the truck runs, and what worked and what didn't.

[timgco]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:

2005 Stealth Grey H2 SUV </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Turn the volumn waaaay up: http://www.lingenfelter.com/0-60.mpeg[/quote]
Damn it Ken! You had to post that AGAIN... didn't you!?! I have one more month to go til I can get mine done! Tha's it.... I am E Mailing your wife tons of H3 pics.

on a side note... What's with the slugishness around town. i have heard this from another "blown H2 owner." Is this just the programming? I was quoted $7K for Crsa Sport/ full Volant kit w/ MAF sensor and Radix Charger? Too much/

[KenP]

Tim:
You better not send those pics!

I have no sluggishness at all. I've heard that once before and it must be a programming issue. When I first had mine done it was sluggish above 80mph. We fixed that problem. Of course you just have to mash the gas to eliminate the sluggishness.

I think Klaus got the SC for under 5k. Are you talking installed price? If not, they're charging you 2k for the exhaust and intake. That's alot. Better check with Klaus.

[W1N]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">When I first had mine done it was sluggish above 80mph. We fixed that problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How did you fix it and what was the problem?

Thanks

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

Hi Gang back from New York. Everything went well. Quite an interesting place to say the least. Daughter and Her choral group did great. Many college groups from around country and they brought in a super conductor and award winning to boot. He just came back from a tour of Italy and Austria with a try out only chamber choir and just blew people away there. Hate to sound like such a proud Dad but, the conductor just continueously raved about My daughters college. This group is very dedicated to performance and not just going through the motions. We got there first even days ahead of others and left last. He consistantly sent them out early from practice raveing about how well prepared they were. There college director had drilled them for months as in reality they were the smallest school their and by far the less prestigous choir. Anyway they went last and all the others were good and the conductors chamber group performed was head and shoulders above everyone else. But, and again I hate to sound like a homer but, the daughter of the Texas Women's Choir, that was the first to perform, said when Our kids started, being the last of the night, that on the first line She immediately saw and heard the commitment to this opportunity Our director and kids took. Everyone there knew immediately they sounded better instantly than all but, the conductors chamber group. They received a standing ovation and allot I guess due to the fact they were such a small group yet performed so powerfully. This is a little girl from a abandoned spot in the road and She was scared to death. She was the only one of Her group who had completely memorized all of her material which the conductor noticed She was not brinig Her music book to practice.

Well thanks for Your patience on letting me brag but, now I have actually some advice on the tuning issue.

I'm buying HP Tuning software with 2 bar density (now getting ready to offer 3 bar) so I will go with 3 bar and some additional features that allow You to really fine tune safely with the specs it provides from PCM. It is a wideband tune so You have to add one wideband oxygen sensor in front of cat of course. My plan is to run tuning software off the small PC I will have to operate the touchscreen, video, audio, Nav, etc. It will be there to bring up on the screen anytime i want if nothing else just to check and make sure nothing is changing. Nelson Performnance highly recomends it and You can have someone with you in the rig running down the road on the freeway or city street and tune it in real time and more precise with laptop than on a dyno. Real world, should produce better out come. The 2 bar density is for if You decide to run more than 5 or 6 pounds of boost which I will most likely do on occasion. The investment is steep but, I think in the long run like HpTuning told Me will prevent You from toasting and engine along with the gauge center I installed that Jonahs designed, I will be prepared always and can tune on the go anytime. If I understand correctly from My talks with Hp is that they will have a 3 bar which will allow You to take MAF and physically remove it from intake system.
It appears there is no real inexpensive option to do it right. I'm going to learn the tuning Myself. Hp said it will be easy but, still a learning curve to perfect it.
You also get 2 vehicles with the kit with 2 seperate cables that will match the rig You buy it for. But, the nice thing is it is not vin specific and if You get 1 car it will work for all cars like it.
Hope some of this is helfull but, it just is going to cost to tune it the way it should be.
TAZ

[DRTYF? (the imposter)]

Who is Klaus's Supercharger guy and how can they be reached!? Thanks in advance!

[KenP]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by W1N:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">When I first had mine done it was sluggish above 80mph. We fixed that problem. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

How did you fix it and what was the problem?

Thanks </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Timing, just reprogrammed it. Of course that was after sending the SC to have the bearings replaced. They needed it, though.

[timgco]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:
Tim:
You better not send those pics!

I have no sluggishness at all. I've heard that once before and it must be a programming issue. When I first had mine done it was sluggish above 80mph. We fixed that problem. Of course you just have to mash the gas to eliminate the sluggishness.

I think Klaus got the SC for under 5k. Are you talking installed price? If not, they're charging you 2k for the exhaust and intake. That's alot. Better check with Klaus. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That is the installed price.... But after checking my quote over it is $7400 plus tax installed. I still didn't think it was that bad. On top of that I'm thinking about the dual electric fans (with switch). Do I really need these?