"Send Fubar To Moab" Charity Drive

[Adam in CO]

So, as many of you know, Fubar has not had a running Hummer since we went to Moab last year. The problems that his Hummer has suffered are beyond my comprehension and understanding. All I know, is DON'T SUPERCHARGE. I am going to open an account to "Save Fubar's Hummer" at US Bank in the Denver Tech Center and deposit one whole dollar (USD, Dennis). Those of you that are willing to contribute to the "Send Fubar To Moab 2006" fund are welcome to contact me for routing and account information.

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by Adam in CO:
All I know, is DON'T SUPERCHARGE.

I agree with that. I've yet to meet anyone with a supercharged H2 that hasn't had problems.

[CO Hummer]

Also,
I am willing to donate 3% of my tube step sales to this cause.

[Fubar]

thanks guys.
THANKS Adam

can I get that routing number I'll donate what I can.?

[HGW]

I would like to contribute to the fund. I know Fubar well. He sure has had his problems with his supercharger.

Funny, though---I have yet to have a client that has had a problem with a Supercharger. They just need to be installed right in the first place, tested properly before given back to the client, and then not fu..ked with by the client after the install. I would say in Fubar's case, No.1 & No. 2 did not happen.

[OrangeCrush]

Originally posted by HGW:
I would like to contribute to the fund. I know Fubar well. He sure has had his problems with his supercharger.

Funny, though---I have yet to have a client that has had a problem with a Supercharger. They just need to be installed right in the first place, tested properly before given back to the client, and then not fu..ked with by the client after the install. I would say in Fubar's case, No.1 & No. 2 did not happen.

I don't know Fubar but I agree with HGW, supercharging is only as good the people installing and tuning.

I've had superchargers on MANY vehicles and have yet to lose a motor because of one. In fact, I just ordered a supercharger for my S10 with a 468cu. in. bigblock and will be ordering one soon for the H2.

Having said that, I'll donate if ya take paypal.

Mark

[Fubar]

You folks are too kind. Thanks.

HGW, thanks for all your advice over the past few months.

At the rate the repairs are going it'll be spring time before I get my truck back so perhaps I'll load up the dogs and drive your way. Most of the delays beside inept people has been getting insurance/warranty companies to honor their commitments. B*astards they'll take your money quick enough but god forbid you need to make a claim.

Alec, you are probably correct. Although the added torque is nice when wheeling. But used incorrectly said torque breaks stuff.

If I had a "Do Over Button" I would have left the truck stock. The added power is great but what good is it if it's not reliable.

[KenP]

Fubar, are you up for an October run?

[CO Hummer]

Originally posted by KenP:
Fubar, are you up for an October run?

I don't think his rig will be ready yet.

[OrangeCrush]

If I had a "Do Over Button" I would have left the truck stock. The added power is great but what good is it if it's not reliable.

Fubar,

Who did your install? And exactly what happened. I'm almost ready to install a supercharger and hadn't heard of any problems before yours. (assuming you used the Maggie)


I ask because my last supercharger was a Maggie on a vette. Once tuned, I had zero problems.

Can you elaborate because assuming the install went smoothly (which is super easy... pinning the crank is the hardest part) that only leaves tuning. An incorrect tune will not make for a happy day. That's the reason why Magnuson always gives out "safe" tunes with their superchargers. You could easily milk out another 10-20% more HP with a good tune.

Thanks,

Mark

[Fubar]

Mark,
Very long story short, I'm having an overheating issue. At the very least the truck runs too hot.

It may be for a number of reasons of which no one will agree on.

I've had a 160 t-stat installed, electronic fans and I'm trying to get someone to stand behind instilling an aluminum radiator. I've heard it will not solve your problem to they leak so we refuse to install them by Cerritos Hummer where the truck is today. Mark Christopher Hummer of Ontario, Hummer of Pasadena, Jessup Hummer-palm springs area, and Lynch Hummer of MI have all said basically one of the two before mentioned excuses. The folks at Lund Hummer in Phoenix have said bring it on down and we'll install the radiator as we've done on every SC'd H2 we've done. So I'm hopefully about that bit of news. It just s*ucks having to make a 10hr drive to get one more piece of a puzzle installed which will hopefully resolve my overheating issue.

Yes my truck, (when I have it) is running a bit too lean but I've been told not enough to cause an overheating issue. And since my truck rarely sees anything above 2500rpm's and I'm not towing anything or racing it most folks swore to me that the amount of lean it's running isn't enough to be any trouble. The SC doesn't kick in until around 2k rpm maybe a bit before.

Having spoken with Magnacharger on many occasions but most recently about there stock tunes they've said that their stock tuning is meant for a stock H2 with nothing having been done to it except placing the SC on the motor.

Meaning no Airaid, no Volant, no mass airflow thingies, no headers, no use of a programmer to adjust for shift patterns or tire size, nothing. Their tune is meant for a stock H2 with stock everything except the SC being added.

If you/I have these before mentioned things then "Custom Tuning" is required but they will not recommend anyone to do it... So short of my driving to see HGW whom I don't believe does anything with custom tuning I'm been sort of stuck trying to find someone qualified to do custom tuning. When I asked Magnuson about the place I had a dyno run (The LAPD- Los Angeles Performance Division) in Chatsworth CA. the teck at Magnuson simply giggled and said he wouldn't use them. ? I'll continue to call them and ask for a different teck they have to know of someone or be able to recommend someone to do custome tuning.

Every dealership I've spoken with from Reno, north of me, Phoenix to the east, and several in S. CA have all said they don't have the ability to do a custom tune.

Oh and it was Towbin Hummer of Las Vegas that did the install for me. (to answer one of your questions)

Personally I wouldn't purchase the extended warranty that Magnacharger offers. It appears to be worthless and its not executed by Magnuson they've farmed out the warranty work to Dell Auto Warranty out of Farmington MI. who you'll have to deal with for any warranty issues, since your factory warranty will be or has been voided by the work you've done or will be doing to your H2. Dell Auto is obviously overworked and under staffed since my truck has been sitting with it's heads pulled off at a machine shop for the last week waiting for an adjuster to show up take a look at the heads and somehow see that a valve is bent. (Whatever)

Until this happens I can't get a loaner vehicle so that I can return to Vegas and get back to work. Yes I know I should simply rent something myself and return home and try and get reimbursed latter. It's the principle of the thing, why have insurance if it's not going to be there when you need it?


You've asked what exactly happened. In a nutshell Towbin didn't think the process threw. And once things started going wrong in their perfect world they threw up their hands and said we don't know what to do.

Assuming you have someone you trust, someone who has installed many SC's and someone who can handle the custom tuning you're going to need, all should be fine and you'll love the power that the SC will bring to your H2. I do agree with Alec that SC-ing and wheeling seam not to mix very well but I don't wheel hard enough to worry about it. It's kind of hard to wheel when you've only had a truck for a few months out of the two years you've owned it.

Best of luck I'm sure you'll be fine. Do you homework (which I didn't when I started this whole process,I have since), or make certain that whoever is doing your install has.

[OrangeCrush]

I don't think there is anything wrong with most of the aluminum radiators on the market. I think the problem is, now that you have problems, no one wants to take the responsibility/liability of installing and standing behind the radiator.

My suggestion is to find a good company that manufactures an aluminum radiator for the H2 and have your local mechanic install it.

As far as tuning, where do you live? Coming from the Corvette forum, there are many places around the country that know what they're doing when it comes to tuning.

The only problem I see, is I don't know if you have to have a special 4WD dyno or you can just disconnect the front axle.

I'm sorry you're having these kind of BS problems... sounds to me that everyone wants to pass the buck.

Let us know how things progresses.

Mark

[Fubar]

Mark, thanks. check your PM.

Ken, sure October sounds like fun and will give me enough time to get caught up with work and save some money for the trip.

On that topic, I really appreciate you guys being willing to contribute to helping me get to Moab in April with the group.

Before you start contributing let me ask folks like Albie possibly for a ride if necessary or anyone coming threw Vegas, if my truck isn't ready.

Also Ken or Adam I'm going to assume you guys are both in the private topic for Aprils Moab trip. Could you ask around and see if anyone would be willing to split the cost of a room? This would significantly reduce the total cost of the trip for both parties.

From past trips to Moab I know flying solo I'm looking at around $1,200 to $1,500.00 for the week and that's just not possible for me right now but if we can cut it in half it's more doable.


6-8 tanks of fule @ or around $60.00 per tank $360-$480
A week at the Ramada around $800.00
and then food figure $30-50 per day $210-350

[HGW]

For the record, we at HGW, like all SC shops, provide Mag with a spec sheet stating what mods have been done to a vehicle---prior to ordering the SC.

Mag then does the calibration required for that particualr application. On minor mods, like headers and air intakes, the ECU will adjust for those changes.

Mag does provide a fairly conservative tune--the Hummer still runs like a rocket after install. Mag does not squeeze every last once of power that the engine can produce with the SC installed because they have a warranty to maintain. They make the engine run great, but not a peak performance.

At HGW, we rely on the tune provided because we too want our clients to have the best trade off between performance and relaibality. We have people here in NJ that will do the dyno pulls and make the necessary adjustments for a "custom tune." However, we will not warranty our install after such a tune. Let the guy who did the custom tune, stand behind it. There are many of these guys, few are good at what they do.

Remember the stock 6.0 can only handle about 500-525 HP to begin with. To get more, you need to beef up a lot of engine components. Now, we WILL do that if you want and make your Hummer sing--but to squeeze a few extra HP out of a stock block is a waste of money and a lot of risk.

Fubar--as you know---something was wrong with the Mag or the install. There was no need for a custom radiator or twin fans, etc. on a basic SC install.

If I had your Hummer, I would reinstall the SC from page one---we have talked about this. Since Towbin and others have already lead you down a path of fans and radiators, there is little turning back.

Once your heads are fixed, I hope your problem goes away. Keep calling a you need so your Hummer gets back on the road.

[OrangeCrush]

I need to clarify something I mentioned earlier. I was telling you what to do assuming you know you need a radiator.... however...

I agree with HGW. There shouldn't have been a need for a aluminum radiator in the first place. Something has to be wrong if you're having an overheating problem... whether it be install, charger, radiator or waterpump.

No matter what the cause, my thought to putting an aluminum radiator in your truck is a band-aid for the real problem. It may indeed cure your overheating problem but something has to be causing it to overheat in the first place. (back to heads, radiator, waterpump, install, charger, etc, etc) Hell, it could even be in the tune, perhaps they messed up the field in where they input timing.

I had a problem with a supercharged corvette that I had dynotuned at least by 4 different guys. We kept having a pinging problem. It wasn't until another shop was going over the fuel and timing tables that we realized that someone made a simple mistake.

I'm not sure if you've ever looked at a fuel table but it's an entire page with little blocks with data that tell the computer what degree, what temp, when and how long to do whatever function the table is talking about.

Anyway, I agree with HGW again. I think the cure is to start from scratch... including another tune. Somebody screwed something up.

Hope it works out.

Mark

[Ed G.]

I agree with OC and HGW about the radiator. What did you mean by "lean but not enough to cause a problem"? Any lean condition will cause your engine temp to increase. Are you sure that your water pump / cooling system is functioning properly?

[Fubar]

Ed,
at this point no I'm not certain about anything.
the truck is 2yrs old, it had 5k miles on it when I purchased it and currently has a bit over 19k. I'm going to assume (probably wrong of me) that the cooling system is functioning correctly for a stock rig. But let me explain why I'm assuming this.

Correct me if I'm wrong but for you folks out there not running a sc your normal operating temp is 210 or right around 210 correct? I know before I had the SC put on 210 was normal for my truck.

From what a lot of you with SC's have told me 210 on a rig with a 160 t-stat is no longer considered normal.
Since my truck is still running at 210 I can only assume that I have a problem.

Now I am or would be COMPLETLY happy if come summer in Las Vegas the truck would stay at or around 210. Problem is its not gonna happen.

Now perhaps its a problem of where I live but when the ambient air temp in LV reaches 120+ and pretty much stays around there for 12-16 weeks during summer I have a problem seeing my cooling temp raising to 250+. At 260 the bells and whistles on the center display go off telling you that the engine coolant is too hot. This to me is a problem.

I know you folks on the east coast have some hot sticky days but there is a huge difference between 100 degrees with 90% humidity and 120 degrees with 3-5% humidity.

I don't know if a larger capacity aluminum radiator is going to solve my troubles but it's one more piece in the puzzle, one more step towards getting to a point where I don't have to check the weather channel to see if I can take my truck out of the garage.

As for lean but not lean enough.

I'm stuck in ca and I don't have access to my paperwork in LV. but when I had the dyno ran to see what the motor was producing after the SC was installed the guys that were running the dyno showed me a graph of what a normal (non SC'd rig) fuel curve was supposed to look like. Picture graph paper with a base line drawn in blue, then they laid over that what they considered normal for a truck that has had a SC installed and running the stock tune, assign a green line to that. Then on top of the other two they put up where my truck was (a red line) running and from looking at the three lines on the graph they came to the conclusion that my truck was just slightly (more lean) than that which they were calling a base line for a truck with a supercharger.

Since part of this particular shops business is custom tuning I didn't much listen to the sales pitch for why I needed to pay them six hundred dollars to adjust my fuel curve a couple of points especially after the tech had said it wasn't an issue since I wasn't towing anything or racing the rig.

So perhaps I'm chasing my tail and I don't have any cooling problem at all.

Perhaps it's merely a by product of where I live and the fact that when you place a SC on top of a motor you are going to generate more heat.

I don't know I only have this fourm as a reference point and when 3-4 of you have said that I should be around 180 for a normal operating temp since I have a 160 t-stat what am I supposed to believe or think when my truck never goes below 210? (yes the sending units and the gauge its self have been replaced) so I don't think it is a faulty gauge or sending unit.

I should have left the truck alone but hind sight is always 20/20. I have to deal with the decisions I've made.

Thanks to all who have offered up suggestions.



quote: Ed G.
Posted 03-13-06 03:13 AM
I agree with OC and HGW about the radiator. What did you mean by "lean but not enough to cause a problem"? Any lean condition will cause your engine temp to increase. Are you sure that your water pump / cooling system is functioning properly?

[Ed G.]

You might check your waterpump and see if it's "weeping". If it is, the pump could be part of your problem. Whether it's bad or not, you might want to check into a high volume pump. Also, is there the possibility that someone swapped pulley's and your running too much boost?