Flex Fuel 2009 H2 - my interest is up

[HummerJim]

Saw a silver 2009 H3T on a car hauler headed north on I55 yesterday afternoon, so I guess the H3T is headed to dealerships now. My interest in the 2009 H2 is increasing now that here in the heart of the corn belt, we are getting more stations with E85 ethanol pumps.
I was fueling up 50 miles west of St. Louis last week and they had an E85 pump that was selling it @ $2.99 a gallon and it said 103 octane on the pump. I walked in and asked the attendant about it and he said their E85 comes from southern Missouri and is correctly rated at 103 octane. Does anyone know when the 2009 H2 with the Flex Fuel will hit the dealerships?

[HummerHippy]

I have no info on the H2, but anyone correct me if I am wrong, E85 does not provide the same MPG as petrol. E85 is less efficient. Don't be fooled in thinking that $2.99/gal is saving you $ per mile. It might save a little it might not.

[o2man98]

E85 is less efficient and will cause lower MPG. One must also remember that octane does NOT equal power. Octane rating is simply a resistance to knock. In reality you will make more power running as low of octane as possible without knocking. Higher octane is slower burning.

[HummerMann]

You are correct. MPGs go down with E85 about 27% on most engines, so you need an E85 price 27% lower than regular to break even. This site tested some E85 flex fuel cars and posted the results on E85 vs. gasoline.
http://alternativefuels.about.com/od...007ffvcars.htm

[o2man98]

Originally Posted by HummerMann

You are correct. MPGs go down with E85 about 27% on most engines, so you need an E85 price 27% lower than regular to break even. This site tested some E85 flex fuel cars and posted the results on E85 vs. gasoline.
http://alternativefuels.about.com/od...007ffvcars.htm

Don't forget to add in the extra cost of our food caused by increased ethanol production. It would have to be near FREE to make up all the costs that it is costing us.

[JayH]

I currently have a 2008 H2 that I blend ethanol in. I blend at 30% and it has not changed my mileage at all. In fact the rough idle issue on the '08s is completely gone once I begain blending at that percentage.

As far as ethanol causing increase in food costs that is a myth. The two factors that conribute to the increase is higher cost of manufacturing and increase transportation charges. There are many more that could be listed;ie: labor, utilities, land cost, taxes and so on.

On the flip side of ethanol, I would rather my money stayed in the US and helped the farmers than continuing to send it overseas. Ethanol is not the solution to the fuel problem but a bridge to offset our oil consumption until other sources can be found and/or developed. If we could reduce our dependence on foreign oil by 30%, wouldn't that just make a lot of sense?!

[3Hummer]

go ahead and take a look athe adjusted price for e85 currently today the average price for regular gasoline is 3.849 and the average price for e85 is 3.111 but adjusted for its gas mileage is 4.093 a gallong your parying more! in reality heres thee exact quote of what the comparison is

"**The BTU-adjusted price of E-85 is the nationwide average price of E-85 adjusted to reflect the lower energy content as expressed in British Thermal Units - and hence miles per gallon - available in a gallon of E-85 as compared to the same volume of conventional gasoline. The BTU-adjusted price calculated by OPIS and AAA is not an actual retail average price paid by consumers. It is calculated and displayed as part of AAA's Fuel Gauge Report because according to the Energy Information Administration E-85 delivers approximately 25 percent fewer BTUs by volume than conventional gasoline. Because "flexible fuel" vehicles can operate on conventional fuel and E-85,the BTU-adjusted price of E-85 is essential to understanding the cost implications of each fuel choice for consumers."

www.fuelgaugereport.com

[HummerMann]

That fuel gauge site is a GREAT SITE! Thanks for posting it!!!
According to GM the 2009 E85 engines have "improved computer technology and cylinder design," to be more efficient than previous flex fuel engines. When the flex technology was looked at in 2005, it was more a novelty than a necessity, and the engine tweaks were almost entirely with the engine management computer. How much better the 2009 flex engines are we will find out soon from consumer groups and vehicle testers.

[chisox05]

Hummer dealer by me has a few 2009 H2 and H3s already with e85 motors

[Alan06SUT]

Originally Posted by 3Hummer

go ahead and take a look athe adjusted price for e85 currently today the average price for regular gasoline is 3.849 and the average price for e85 is 3.111 but adjusted for its gas mileage is 4.093 a gallong your parying more! in reality heres thee exact quote of what the comparison is

So what? Your money is not going over seas to people who hate us even though we make them rich. Be patriotic and pay a couple of cents more! The whole food price increase is BS. That is temporary until we catch up to the demand by planting more crops. We have plenty of fertile land to produce enough food and ethanol. Anyone who tells you diffrently is full of it. It will bring back rural life.

[3Hummer]

i didnt mention food in my post ethnol is a bs solution to the whole problem its a temporary fix till it gets effed up

[drewtiss@hotmail]

Originally Posted by HummerHippy

I have no info on the H2, but anyone correct me if I am wrong, E85 does not provide the same MPG as petrol. E85 is less efficient. Don't be fooled in thinking that $2.99/gal is saving you $ per mile. It might save fuel a little it might not.

I use to think it that way cause $2.99/gal is the way to go with other price around. E85 is highly resistant to spark knock.

[IRA51]

NOT WOTH THE TIME AND TROUBLE ,save the corn for dinner.

[HUMMERcustoms.com/TAZ]

As I have mentioned many times the statement made earlier in this thread about lower power is produced by higher octanes is true. 87 octane will always produce more power. I run it in my supercharged setup but, I run an intense tuning program to prevent preignition.

The E85 used in engines designed with present behind the curve ideas are less efficient. The manufactures could easily design engines to burn E85 to equal or beat the mpg in present regular fuel or E85.

Having farmed 30 years I can speak with some qualified knowledge that farmers are grateful for E85 which does not have to be made with just corn. My point though is I can quarantee that The American Farmer when and if called upon to produce for food and fuel can over produce themselves into the state of being broke and out of business. Mostly this is due to the middlemen making all the money. A few years ago I read some studies about how much of a box of finished table product the farmer got. The one that stuck with me because it was the one with the greatest by % of consumer cost that farmer received converted in dollars. From a box of corn flakes farmers received .05 of the total sell price of the box to the lady when she checked out. 5 cents can you imagine that and at the time it was estimated that it could be doubled to .10 to the farmer and the farmer could retire most debt within a couple of years. It was revealed that the person that sold the ink used to print the labeling on the box made more of that box of corn flakes.

Anyway improved engine design will easily make ethanol equal to if not better than regular gas. The farmer can produced enough grain to more than meet food and fuel needs without raising the cost to the American People as long as the middlemen are watched to prevent unfair markup or designed crisis of shortage of grain. No country in the world has ever been able to out produce The American Farmer as long as there is no unfair farm subsidy paid to the foreign farmers as it is now. French farmers get paid last I new $25 a bushel of soybeans when USA farmers were getting $6.50 a bushel. Japanese rice farmers get $25 + a 100 weight where USA farmers received $3 to $4 a 100 weight for superior quality to boot. Yet I have to concede to both nations that they have faced national starvation with near destruction of food producing capabilities and determined by the gov. that they would do their best not to have a return to those bad times. For our nation we have not ever faced total destruction except in the formative years of this country and again in the War of 1812. Our farmers can produce all we need given the incentive to do so whether financial or circumstance of the need of The USA such as time of world war etc.

Well to long but, informative I hope. I just wanted to reveal the correct and incorrect on both sides of E85 issue. Most probably knew anyway but, no one had made the point yet.

TAZ

[IRA51]

with the current state of things in the world it would be far more productive to use all agriculture output to feed people . we need to drill baby drill and tap our own oil supplys and while we are useing our domestic energy develop battery powered vehicles . we also should build nuk generating plants asap. if europe can depend on modern nuk power so can we .

[HummerJim]

Down in Joplin, MO today, I noticed gas is selling for $1.29 a gallon at Woody's Truck Stop off I 44. They still sell E85 ethanol, but at $1.19 a gallon for ethanol, the demand is down. Having breakfast there earlier this morning, Woody himself said they might stop selling it because the demand just isn't there anymore for ethanol and the profit margin is now less than on gasoline.