Any 1911 fans on the board?

[Mr. I - Man]

.45 230 grain. You better be a good defilade shot for anything over 25 yards, because thats going to have a lot of bullet drop. So your well placed chest shot is going to be a knee cap at range. I take it you never had to use a weapon in a real world situation. And real world does not mean shooting at stray dogs in your trailer park.

Looks like we have weapons troll now boys!

Season is open fire at will!!

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. I - Man:
.45 230 grain. You better be a good defilade shot for anything over 25 yards, because thats going to have a lot of bullet drop. So your well placed chest shot is going to be a knee cap at range. I take it you never had to use a weapon in a real world situation. And real world does not mean shooting at stray dogs in your trailer park.

Looks like we have weapons troll now boys!

Season is open fire at will!! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


While I agree on the bullet drop, I'd have to say though that as far as a self-defense round goes, it's a moot point! In any courtroom in the U.S. today, 25 yards sounds more like murder than self-defense! I love the .45acp +p 230 grain round - especially as offered in the Hydra-Shock or Golden Sabre rounds. I will admit, however, that just about any manufacturer's .357mag in a 125gr JHP is about the ultimate manstopper. There is some issue with overpenetration which is why many police forces went away from it, but if that is not an issue, and one can handle the recoil, it is about the ultimate in real-life one-shot stops on thin-skinned two legged targets.
Now, that said, I'd far rather have a .22 in my boot when I need it than a .45 or .357, or .40, or anything else back at home in the nightstand!

Anyone who is a rabid devotee of a particular caliber, firearm (or anything else for that matter) to the exclusion of all else, is not the brightest bulb on the tree. I used to have this idiot tell me all the time that one of my rifles chambered in .223 was worthless, and that ONLY his .308 was effective. I made him an offer - to stand and face each other at 100 yards, let me fire first with my useless 5.56 and then I'd let him fire at me with his 7.62. It was odd. He never took me up on it.

Sean

[Toadies]

It has been well established by Ayoob, Marshall and others that most tactical engagements occur at 21 feet or less.

I suppose you glockies are gonna start the hi-cap arguement next...

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:


In any courtroom in the U.S. today, 25 yards sounds more like murder than self-defense! I love the .45acp +p 230 grain round - especially as offered in the Hydra-Shock or Golden Sabre rounds. I will admit, however, that just about any manufacturer's .357mag in a 125gr JHP is about the ultimate manstopper. Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree on your murder charge over 25 feet. Any DA will take that and your love for weapons and take you to a Grand Jury any day of the week.

The .357 is good at penetrating auto glass but thats it's only advantage.

[Klaus]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
I suppose you glockies are gonna start the hi-cap arguement next... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's why I like the .357 Magnum. If you need more than 5 or 6 shots, you need more than a handgun anyway.

[PARAGON]

A tactical engagement doesn't follow any rules written by a damn magazine or a book. The ridiculous back and forth about calibers and the DA and polymer handguns is doling out the ignorance and nothing else.

A 1911 .45 is fine as a backup weapon to tactical officer who is carrying an entry weapon but as an everyday personal protection choice.... it's just a bad choice. 25 feet is easy to encounter for the civilian in any situation. You can't tell the person shooting at you to stop and wait until he is only 25 feet away. You corner someone in your home and they are threatening and it is easy to be 30 feet or more down a hall. To pigeon hole things will get you killed. And yes, having as many rounds available is a plus, because you never know what situation will arise.

If you want to be stupid with your own life, fine. Otherwise, move on and quit giving advice here on crap you know nothing about on something as important as this.

[Mr. I - Man]

Thanks Paragon! Well put.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:
A tactical engagement doesn't follow any rules written by a damn magazine or a book. The ridiculous back and forth about calibers and the DA and polymer handguns is doling out the ignorance and nothing else.

A 1911 .45 is fine as a backup weapon to tactical officer who is carrying an entry weapon but as an everyday personal protection choice.... it's just a bad choice. 25 feet is easy to encounter for the civilian in any situation. You can't tell the person shooting at you to stop and wait until he is only 25 feet away. You corner someone in your home and they are threatening and it is easy to be 30 feet or more down a hall. To pigeon hole things will get you killed. And yes, having as many rounds available is a plus, because you never know what situation will arise.

If you want to be stupid with your own life, fine. Otherwise, move on and quit giving advice here on crap you know nothing about on something as important as this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



I was with you through most of the first paragraph, but...ummmm...before critisizing, read more carefully. No one was discussing 25 FEET - it was 25 YARDS (that's 75 feet for those of you who are "yardstick challenged").
You are quite obviously an incredible wheeler! Slapping newbies around with regard to wheeling an H2 is your forte. You keep us all very entertained and informed! But coming late to this thread and misreading what was being discussed while dissing the venerable and proven 1911 .45 shows...well...um...maybe not ignorance, but perhaps you are just tired from your recent awesome trip. Maybe you could explain why the 1911 .45 as an everyday personal protection weapon is a bad choice? I'd be interested in your reasoning much more than your vitriol.

Sean

[Mr. I - Man]

Actually Paragon and I are former Jarheads. I was in for about 8.5 years with extensive M.O.U.T. and C.Q.B. Training also a Water Survival Instructor and 300 PFT consistantly. So I know just a little.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. I - Man:
Actually Paragon and I are former Jarheads. I was in for about 8.5 years with extensive M.O.U.T. and C.Q.B. Training also a Water Survival Instructor and 300 PFT consistantly. So I know just a little. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


That's great service. I'm sure you understand how little Marine training and warfare experience and weaponry translate to civilian situations though. And SURELY you know the high regard held for the 1911 by the Marines who have actually been in the **** with it. I have exceptional regard for the Glock, the Sig, even the Beretta. But one must equally be worried about a man carrying a .45 1911 if he knows how to use it. I agree with most of what Paragon said - the petty arguments over caliber and capacity are silly. It is time better spent getting familiar with the weapon you choose - regardless of what that is!

Somehow I doubt that you, faced with a man carrying a 1911 are going to laugh at him and tell him that's a "bad choice" to shoot you with! The arguments get silly after a while, huh?

Sean

[Mr. I - Man]

The Marines who used the 1911 as a service piece were way before my time. I served from 1993 - 2002. I never said it was a bad pistol.I never stated anything but the obvious, The 1911 is a great weapon for its day. It is a little heavy and the bullet drop and capacity in my opinion does not make up for little bit more in stopping power over the 40 S.W. It just does not fit my needs. And thats my personal choice.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. I - Man:
The Marines who used the 1911 as a service piece were way before my time. I served from 1993 - 2002. I never said it was a bad pistol.I never stated anything but the obvious, The 1911 is a great weapon for its day. It is a little heavy and the bullet drop and capacity in my opinion does not make up for little bit more in stopping power over the 40 S.W. It just does not fit my needs. And thats my personal choice. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

That's cool. And the HK line - just about every damn weapon in it - is awesome. As for heavy, well, I guess it's heavier than the HK, but a big bad Marine would have no problem hefting it. (Sorry, years of Army training forces me to make fun of Marines at any and every opportunity). I know you personally did not berate the pistol - that was Paragon, and his vehemence against this fine weapon suprised me. I'd love to hear his reasoning.

Hey, anyway, "Semper Fi" my friend ....now "Follow Me"

Sean

[Mr. I - Man]

Quote : " Follow Me"????

Were you a Ranger??

Just wondering because when I was a group of us Marines and Navy got to participate in a Ranger school package It was to help with better unit coheasion during J.T.F. missions.

Anyways the instructors were always saying that.

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. I - Man:
Quote : " Follow Me"????

Were you a Ranger??

Just wondering because when I was a group of us Marines and Navy got to participate in a Ranger school package It was to help with better unit coheasion during J.T.F. missions.

Anyways the instructors were always saying that. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>



And meaning it. Rangers go first, you girls follow.

Sean

[Mr. I - Man]

Dick

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. I - Man:
Dick </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


Thank you.

Sean

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Mr. I - Man:
Actually Paragon and I are former Jarheads. I was in for about 8.5 years with extensive M.O.U.T. and C.Q.B. Training also a Water Survival Instructor and 300 PFT consistantly. So I know just a little. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am ex Delta Force, ex Seal, ex OSI.. you two are just jarhead turds.

.45 as a backup weapon??? you and Paragon need to lay off the dope.

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:

If you want to be stupid with your own life, fine. Otherwise, move on and quit giving advice here on crap you know nothing about on something as important as this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


RAAARRR!!!!1 I am a goddamn navy bellhop and I know all...

RAAARRRRR!!!!1

[Bondage]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:

If you want to be stupid with your own life, fine. Otherwise, move on and quit giving advice here on crap you know nothing about on something as important as this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


RAAARRR!!!!1 I am a goddamn navy bellhop and I know all...

RAAARRRRR!!!!1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You're an idiot. Kinda funny, but an idiot.
Sssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
You're making a fool of yourself.

Sean

[Toadies]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bondage:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Toadies:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PARAGON:

If you want to be stupid with your own life, fine. Otherwise, move on and quit giving advice here on crap you know nothing about on something as important as this. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


RAAARRR!!!!1 I am a goddamn navy bellhop and I know all...

RAAARRRRR!!!!1 </div></BLOCKQUOTE>


You're an idiot. Kinda funny, but an idiot.
Sssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
You're making a fool of yourself.

Sean </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I am deaf and I will thank you NOT to make fun of the handicap.