Hummer Forums by Elcova  
Forums - Home
Source Decals

Source Motors
Custom. Accessories.

H2 Accessories
H3 Accessories
Other Vehicles

H2 Source

H2 Member Photos
H2 Owners Map
H2 Classifieds
H2 Photo Gallery
SUT Photo Gallery
H2 Details

H2 Club

Chapters
Application

H3 Source

H3 Member Photos
H3 Classifieds
H3 Photo Gallery
H3 Owners Map
H3 Details
H3T Concept

H1 Source

H1 Member Photos
H1 Classifieds
H1 Photo Gallery
H1 Details

General Info

Hummer Dealers
Contact
Advertise

Sponsored Ads










 


Source Motors - custom. accessories.


Go Back   Hummer Forums by Elcova > Hummer H2 Discussion Forums > Technical Discussion and Customizing your H2

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-14-2006, 05:11 PM
rodster rodster is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 1,571
rodster is off the scale
Default

Thanks everyone!

It's always great to read the bottom line and specific recommendations.

I bought the Cobra 75WXST in early December. At that time I was in a hurry to have it working so I also bought a magnetic base antenna. The goal now is to have a more effective and permanent setup.

I'll pick up the single Firestik this weekend. Firestik's Firefly is appealing due to its flexibility although I imagine I can get sufficient flex by installing a base spring.

One more question:

I see on Firestik's web site three different coax setups, each with a different type connector on the antenna end. All but one look like one end's connector will need to be cut-off to allow the cable to fit through the roof marker light boot. True? If yes, then do you recommend also buying a replacement connector?

This model cable from Firestik is made for easy routing. If I can find it, this looks like the ticket, yes?



Thanks again. I very much appreciate your time and advice.
__________________
\'05 SUT
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-14-2006, 07:36 PM
KenP's Avatar
KenP KenP is offline
Hummer Messiah
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 37,474
KenP is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
I'm falling back on what I learned in school now (which was some time ago), but if I recall correctly, antenna size is related to wavelength, the closer you get to a full wavelength the better it will work. So a 1/2 wave antenna would generally work better than a 1/4 wave, etc , etc. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>I used to tell my dates the samething.
__________________
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."---Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-14-2006, 09:04 PM
ree's Avatar
ree ree is offline
Hummer Authority
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ouside MN's 5th Congressional District, MN
Posts: 1,260
ree is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rodster:
This model cable from Firestik is made for easy routing. If I can find it, this looks like the ticket, yes?


</div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yes. This is what other's have said works (the MU-8R18), and I bought the same on that recommendation. Never having seen the marker light holes first hand, I can't say it will work, but it looks like it will.

I'm sure Phil will know; he seems to know something about everything


I'll semi-hijack the thread and ask others where do you put all the excess coax? I defintely don't need all 18' and Firestik says not to coil it (RF choke). I suppose this means it's got to be spread around the headliner????
__________________
'03 pewter base H2
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-14-2006, 09:05 PM
ree's Avatar
ree ree is offline
Hummer Authority
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ouside MN's 5th Congressional District, MN
Posts: 1,260
ree is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

BTW rodster,
Here's a very useful prior link that documents the firestik+jeep mount, and even has a parts list on the last page.

http://elcova.com/groupee/forums/a/t...3686044512/p/1
__________________
'03 pewter base H2
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-14-2006, 09:42 PM
rodster rodster is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 1,571
rodster is off the scale
Default

Thanks for the link, Ree. I've been all over that thread a few times.

Took a drive down to Boulder City today to Radio World. What a place! It's a small shop run by a guy who was very patient and answered all my questions.

Snipping one connector is standard stuff. He didn't have the coax like the one pictured above but he did give me the replacement connector. That'll be easy to install since I already have the coax crimper.

I bought a standard issue mount that'll clamp on my Gobi rack. Also and based on Phil's recommendation, I bought a swivel joint (not a spring) to put between the antenna and the base. That'll allow for laying the antenna flat for garage parking and when driving through tall brush.

I ended up with a four foot antenna. The difference in money between it and the shorter models was peanuts but the increase in range is, in the shop owner's opinion, worth it. After hearing his explanation why I have to agree. I don't know if the added length and range will every be necessary but it'll be nice to have if it is.

I also picked up a SWR meter to tune the antenna. It was cheaper to buy the meter ($20) than drive back down to his store for the free tune, which he did offer.

Here's a different take on coax length: The gent at the radio shop (he's been a ham for decades and playing with CBs since Smokey was a bandit) said that length is not critical. He said the coax needs only be as long as it takes to reach the radio. He did advise I have the install nearly finalized before tuning so I expect the coax length will impact that.

Thanks again everyone for all the assistance. I'm off to the garage to install.
__________________
\'05 SUT
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-14-2006, 10:34 PM
CslRkH2's Avatar
CslRkH2 CslRkH2 is offline
Hummer Expert
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 671
CslRkH2 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

You want a large ground plane for the Antenna to work best. Interestingl your great reception will be from the antenna toward the side with the most metal. So if you mount it in the rear passenger, your best reception will be forward to the driver which would be optimal for Interstate Highways. The dual setup in the middle of the roof would provide good reception front and back straight ahead.

Everyone I;ve talked to and the websites like FireStik state yo need 18' coax length. I'm not sure that guy you spoke with was correct in this instance.

The wattage is irrelant I think because the CB's only transmit at 2-5 watts.

When you use your meter to tune the antenna, make sure to put any caps on the end of the antenna on for each measurement. The presence of the caps changes the readings. Yes your antenna needs to be in its final location before youi start tuning.

I bought the Swival with the Spring and it seems work good.
Attached Images
 
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-15-2006, 12:22 AM
rodster rodster is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 1,571
rodster is off the scale
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by CslRkH2:
You want a large ground plane for the Antenna to work best. Interestingl your great reception will be from the antenna toward the side with the most metal. So if you mount it in the rear passenger, your best reception will be forward to the driver which would be optimal for Interstate Highways. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Very interesting. So how about mounting the antenna in the middle of the the horizontal, left-to-right bar that's just aft of the sunroof? That's where I put mine today (and it damn well better work since I had to scrape powder coat to get a good ground ). I ran out of daylight before making the coax run to the interior so I haven't had a chance to test it. Based on what you say, I'd guess my best reception will come from the back, the sides will be even and in front will be the weakest. Agreed?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Everyone I;ve talked to and the websites like FireStik state yo need 18' coax length. I'm not sure that guy you spoke with was correct in this instance. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I grabbed this off the Firestick site.

About the length: This is a testy subject with many engineering types. They have argued with us on many occasions regarding this matter. They say that if your system is set-up properly that the length of the coax is irrelevant. We agree! However, mobile installations have so many variables that a perfect set-up is the exception, not the rule. One guy has a pick-up and another has a fiberglass motorhome. One wants the antenna on the bumper, another on the hood and a third on the roof. Few people want to drill holes in their vehicle so quality grounds are always a consideration. Because of the imperfect world, we almost always recommend 18' (5.5m) when our products are used. We do so with good reason too! At 18' the voltage curve has dropped back to the zero voltage point where the cable meets the antenna which reduces the reactance within the cable itself (a null cable if you would). It has been our experience that if the antenna location makes it somewhat out of sync with its surroundings, cable lengths that are not multiples of our 18' suggestion adds to the problem. To that, our complaining experts say, "Then the antenna should be moved!" to which we say, "You tell the guy with the $30,000 vehicle that he must drill a hole in his roof so he can use a 9' cable". We solve problems in the best way we can given the boundaries that the customer establishes.

On that note, when you have 18' of coax going to a radio that is only 8' away, what should you do with the other 10'? We recommend that you serpentine it like a skein of yarn so that it is 10-14" long and tie it in the center with a wire tie then tuck it away. Do not roll it up in a tight circle as this can cause it to act like an RF choke, which often times will cause system problems.


If I read that right, it's all about the ground? And if the ground and all other components are good, length is negotiable?
__________________
\'05 SUT
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-15-2006, 12:24 AM
rodster rodster is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 1,571
rodster is off the scale
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by PhilD:
It isn't critical to have 18' or so of cable, but if you don't then I wouldn't bother tuning it either. The 18' is get you up to a higher wavelength fractional. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Well now that's a techno-furball of a different color right there. I did buy an 18' cable so to be safe, I'll use it and "serpentine" it like Firestik recommends.
__________________
\'05 SUT
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-15-2006, 01:52 AM
rodster rodster is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 1,571
rodster is off the scale
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ree:

I'll semi-hijack the thread and ask others where do you put all the excess coax? I defintely don't need all 18' and Firestik says not to coil it (RF choke). I suppose this means it's got to be spread around the headliner???? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Check out the last paragraph of the italicized text above. The answer is there.
__________________
\'05 SUT
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 01-15-2006, 02:07 AM
ree's Avatar
ree ree is offline
Hummer Authority
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Ouside MN's 5th Congressional District, MN
Posts: 1,260
ree is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rodster:
Check out the last paragraph of the italicized text above. The answer is there. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Thanks. Of course, all I need is more wires up behind the rail under the dash
__________________
'03 pewter base H2
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 01-15-2006, 05:07 AM
KenP's Avatar
KenP KenP is offline
Hummer Messiah
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 37,474
KenP is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

Two questions:

1) Has anyone run the coax through the REAR marker?

2) Phil, how did you ground the rack?
__________________
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."---Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 01-15-2006, 05:18 AM
rodster rodster is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 1,571
rodster is off the scale
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">1) Has anyone run the coax through the REAR marker? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blasphemy!

Interesting idea. How would you get to the front?

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">2) Rod , how did you ground the rack? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think it happened when the lights went on the Gobi. I didn't do anything else to ground the rack and I don't think the normal rack install would do it. I checked for continuity between the rack and a known good ground spot and it was 0.00 on the ohmeter.
__________________
\'05 SUT
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 01-15-2006, 06:03 PM
Dick Renaud's Avatar
Dick Renaud Dick Renaud is offline
Hummer Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Brighton, Michigan USA
Posts: 164
Dick Renaud is off the scale
Default

As a HAM since the fifties and a commercial 2-way shop owner for 15 years dealing in low band VHF (39mhz) and CB as well as high band and UHF, here is some info.
If you have a properly grounded vehicle, cable length is not a factor, in fact at low power CB shorter lenghth is an advantage. You are attempting to keep the resistance of the cable balanced with the radio and antenna to get maximume power transfer.
Grounding: Must include grounding the antenna to the roof, if you are using complex mounts with open ground brain from the coax, an additional short length of copper braid, flattened and attached between the antenna ground screwed with star washer into the roof and sealed with silicone or other water tight seal will help. Body ground, you also should ground the body metal under the vehicle to the frame using the copper braid and weather sealed.
Last but not least, ground the negative post of the battery to the frame in the same manner. The regulare vehicle electrical ground is not all that solid and needs this extra solid ground. In all cases wire brush the surface area and clean with alcohol. On more help is to ground the tail pipe to the frame. It can cause electric noise.
Power, it is alway best to run a "home run" positive and negative cable * or 10 gauge from the batter to the radio. If you hook up to any other vehicle electric you will get noise. Vehicle electrical systems have very poor RF suppression. Check with your local sound installer. They always connect direct for noise suppression and heavy power need.
Tuning, the previous post is correct, the antenna must be in use condition when tuned. One thing many people forget when tuneing especially when the mount is over the drivers door, close the door.
One last thought, the Firestick is a great antenna because you can tune it easily and retune it any time you add something to the roof a9lights, bars etc). The rule for antennas is the longer the better. The 4' Firestick is the best comprimise for a low profile, foldable antenna.

In radio, every little thing adds up to major difference in results. You can short cut it if you don't care about the extra distance or clarity.

As a cop and emergency worker for many years I always go the extra step for the added security in that one situation when you REALLY need the extra.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 01-15-2006, 07:57 PM
KenP's Avatar
KenP KenP is offline
Hummer Messiah
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 37,474
KenP is an unknown quantity at this point
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by rodster:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">1) Has anyone run the coax through the REAR marker? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Blasphemy!

Interesting idea. How would you get to the front? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Under the headliner or under the carpet I guess.
__________________
"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government."---Thomas Jefferson
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 01-15-2006, 08:14 PM
rodster rodster is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 1,571
rodster is off the scale
Default

Dick -- Glad to see you spotted this thread. I was hoping you would.

I have a few questions in response to your post but will start with one for now ...

I gather from reading between your lines that a zero reading on the ohmeter does not necessarily equal a good ground. If that's true, is there a better way to test the ground for quality?
__________________
\'05 SUT
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 01-15-2006, 09:09 PM
Dick Renaud's Avatar
Dick Renaud Dick Renaud is offline
Hummer Veteran
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Brighton, Michigan USA
Posts: 164
Dick Renaud is off the scale
Default

There is a difference between Electrical Ground and RF Ground. The VOM reads Electrical Ground. You need more expensive test gear to read RF. The best and cheapest this is to be sure that you have good,Clean (wire brushed or dremmeled), tight physical ground connection between the antenna and the ground surface. Something I forgot in my other post is that you need a good physical ground between the Radio chassis and the vehicle chassis. The can be acheived if you have a large screw on the back of the radio or drill a hole in a clear area of the back plate and, in either case attach a flat copper braid or flat copper strap with stainless steal nut and bolt or replace the chassis screw with stainless screw and stainless star washers. Seal the connections with RTV silicone or Plasti Dip. This seals out moisture and prevents the hardware from working loose. If you don't seal them, check them for tightness monthly. A ground that is not very tight can cause static interference. It may look tight, but tighten it to be sure. The copper strap is the best grounding material because RF travels on the surface of the copper not inside and strap has more surface area. I mentioned tailpipes before. The are a leading cause for noise in ham HF (CB frequencies fall in that range) frequencies. When grounding tailpipes it is best to use a stainless steel pipe strape to secure the ground and use a high temp sealing material.
One other point is to solder all connections, no clippies.
If you want lots more info on mounting and wiring and grounding check this site:
http://www.k0bg.com/ Alan is what is called in HAM an ELMER. That is a very experienced HAM who helps newer HAMs figure it all out. HAMs by nature are experimenters and are always tweeking and seaking better ways to get the most out of the least. I have spent a great deal of time asking ELMERs for advise and Alan is one of the most knowlegeble and acurate ELMERs I have found.

Al this may be a bit of over kill for raw CB, but I have had CBs in many diffent vehicles and building and have found that with a few simple steps you can get a lot more from your equipment.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 01-16-2006, 12:07 AM
rodster rodster is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 1,571
rodster is off the scale
Default

Thanks for the great info, Dick.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dick Renaud:
Al this may be a bit of over kill for raw CB ... </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm all about overkill! Sure, I could have just run the coax under the dash and had a completed, simple install done by now but NO! I saw an opportunity to do things a little differently and hopefully (at least to myself), a little better. Here's the current state of the project. I wonder sometimes if I'll ever outgrow this ...
Attached Images
 
__________________
\'05 SUT
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 01-16-2006, 12:12 AM
rodster rodster is offline
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Vegas
Posts: 1,571
rodster is off the scale
Default

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by KenP:

Under the headliner or under the carpet I guess. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I don't know of a reason why either of those wouldn't work. It would be a lot more work.

One thing I learned today: coming down the left A-pillar is a whole lot easier than the right. There's lots of open space under the driver's side of the dash. Not so on the passenger's.
__________________
\'05 SUT
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin Version 3.0.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.