how to interupt the RAP circuit?

[marin8703]

i need some help, and hopefully someone can help me out.

what i would like to do is to be able to somehow interupt the RAP circuit with a relay.

The reason for this is that i would like for the circuit to be off once the remote start on my truck goes off. The way it is rite now, is that if i remote start the truck all the accesories come on, and that all rite, but sometimes i need to abort the remote start (change my mind or something) and when I do that the RAP is still powered, and things such as my radio and some other add-ons are still going.

One thing i though of was to pulse the door switches (simulate an open) door, but that would sound off the alarm, unless i isolate it before that (dont really want to got this route).

So im hoping someone knows a trick of doing this.

Thanks for any help, it'll be greatly appreciated.

[navigator32v]

The best way I've found to interrupt some RAP is to turn on the ROCK! I'm sorry I had to say that...good luck though.

For those about to rock we salute you!

[H3 Alaska]

My son will know if this is even possible. I'll ask him, but he is in a car show this weekend so it may take a few days to get back at you.

[marin8703]

Appreciate the help H3Alaska. I can wait, if i dont get any ideas then i just wont be able to do anything so no rush.

navigator, Rock is a good RAP interupter but i donno how to worrk that into the circuit.

[f5fstop]

Technically, the RAP circuit on the H3 does NOT control the radio, it supplies power to components such as the sunroof, wipers, windows, and the power is supplied through separate fuses that obtain power from the RAP/ACCY relay. This relay is controlled via a ground wire by the BCM; which as you know, shuts down power about ten minutes after the ignition has been turned off, or a door has been opened or closed after the ignition has been turned off.
The Radio, as well as a few other components, is not part of the relay controlled RAP circuit. The radio is fed constant battery voltage that serves two purposes. One, keeps any memory settings that are not contained on a non-volatile memory chip, and is used to power the radio when the turn on signal is received from the BCM.
When you start the vehicle, the BCM sends a turn on signal to the radio via the class 2 serial data circuit, and the radio wakes up and goes to the last position you had set on the radio (on/off, CD/radio, etc.). After you turn off the ignition, the BCM will shut down this circuit at the same time it removes the ground to the RAP relay.

That's how the two circuits operate. Is there a way to override the RAP circuit? I would say yes, but it would depend on obtaining a signal from the module used to remote start the vehicle, and I am not familiar with that item. As for the radio circuit, that would require interfering with the serial data circuit, which, unless you know exactly what you are doing, I would not touch. Consider this to be the internal local area network where all the computers talk to each other. (This is the circuit where the BCM sends the security ok to the PCM, this is the circuit that verifies VIN numbers of components, etc.)

[marin8703]

Originally Posted by f5fstop

Technically, the RAP circuit on the H3 does NOT control the radio, it supplies power to components such as the sunroof, wipers, windows, and the power is supplied through separate fuses that obtain power from the RAP/ACCY relay. This relay is controlled via a ground wire by the BCM; which as you know, shuts down power about ten minutes after the ignition has been turned off, or a door has been opened or closed after the ignition has been turned off.
The Radio, as well as a few other components, is not part of the relay controlled RAP circuit. The radio is fed constant battery voltage that serves two purposes. One, keeps any memory settings that are not contained on a non-volatile memory chip, and is used to power the radio when the turn on signal is received from the BCM.
When you start the vehicle, the BCM sends a turn on signal to the radio via the class 2 serial data circuit, and the radio wakes up and goes to the last position you had set on the radio (on/off, CD/radio, etc.). After you turn off the ignition, the BCM will shut down this circuit at the same time it removes the ground to the RAP relay.

That's how the two circuits operate. Is there a way to override the RAP circuit? I would say yes, but it would depend on obtaining a signal from the module used to remote start the vehicle, and I am not familiar with that item. As for the radio circuit, that would require interfering with the serial data circuit, which, unless you know exactly what you are doing, I would not touch. Consider this to be the internal local area network where all the computers talk to each other. (This is the circuit where the BCM sends the security ok to the PCM, this is the circuit that verifies VIN numbers of components, etc.)

I probably should have said this in the beginig, but i have an aftermarket pioneer avic-z1 installed. As far as i could figure out its workings this is how its power operates. It has fulltime power via a constant yellow and it has accesory or ignition power via red, and the unit looks at that red to know when to turn on and off. The control of the red is on a relay that came with the wiring harness of the unit itself. It gets the power from the yellow, and relays it to red when ever ignition is on, and it seems to monitor, not use, but just monitor the RAP circuit, as far as I can tell. That relay is controled by some wire coming out of the Peripheral onstar adapter, but i didnt just wana start poking at things without knowing what they are, and it is very hard to get to, so if another route is possibble it would be better. The Z1 unit operates the same as windows and sunroof and all that. But I think it doesnt use their power it just looks to see if it should be on, because of that relay thats on its own wiring harness. Im not 100% sure about the last sentence.

As usual I do things without really planing them out, so last weekend, i thought i had the solution, put a relay (breaks red while on) on the ignition/accy controlled red that is at the z1's own relay, and control that relay with a status output from the alarm. Well, it worked, but not exactly rite. It keeps the radio off, but once the remote start is turned off (and thereby the relay connects the red again) the radio comes right on. And this is where I am now.

and the power is supplied through separate fuses that obtain power from the RAP/ACCY relay. This relay is controlled via a ground wire by the BCM;

Is there a way to override the RAP circuit? I would say yes, but it would depend on obtaining a signal from the module used to remote start the vehicle,

These two statements give me hope . The alarm I have has two remote start status outputs in the form of steady (-) 200mA. There is a flow while the remote start is on and stops are the remote turns off.

I was thinking maybe a pac-tr7 or someting similar and a relay can be probramed to flash this ground wire from the bcm that controlls the RAP/ACCY relay. Would that possibly work? Or give me whatever ideas you got. But that wont set off the alrm wite, it has nothing to do with the door swithces?

Thanks for the help, this will be a huge relife if it can get done.

[f5fstop]

Forgot you had the Z1, and you probably have the Z1 bypass too, and the relay provided with the periperal is turning on the pioneer, via a signal from the purple wire (class 2) into the peripheral adapter.
So, if you just want to cut the radio power, then a relay signaled from the starter system could shut off the radio.
If you abort the startup the radio will only stay on for ten minute before the BCM signals the peripheral to shut off the radio. This should not affect the battery, if that is the concern.

[marin8703]

Originally Posted by f5fstop

Forgot you had the Z1, and you probably have the Z1 bypass too, and the relay provided with the periperal is turning on the pioneer, via a signal from the purple wire (class 2) into the peripheral adapter.
So, if you just want to cut the radio power, then a relay signaled from the starter system could shut off the radio.
If you abort the startup the radio will only stay on for ten minute before the BCM signals the peripheral to shut off the radio. This should not affect the battery, if that is the concern.

yeah your rite it was a purple wire. donno how that class 2 serial data stuff works so i was smart not to mess with that.

Battery is one issue, but my main concern is at night when parked on the street, and when the remote start goes off the display still stays on, and as you may know at night it is really bright, lights up the whole interior of the vehicle (since the dim feature will not be on while headlights lights off).

One night during winter around 8 pm, i started it but i took longer than expected and the starter turned off, but the screen kept on, and when i walked out i could see the light in the car from 1/4 of a block away. everyone walking by the truck turned to look at it. fortunately no one had any bad intentions that night, but anythings possible. Im a little paranoid since it is a $2 grand unit and its got no security features, except that of the truck.

Another reason is that if the music is on whne the remote start turns off the sound sensor and the shock sensor start being monitored again, and they get set off by the music every minute or so.

For now i try to remember to turn the screen and audio off every time i get outa the car (or at least whn i mite be using the remote later), but it is turning out to be a pain in the a$$.

again thanks for the help.

[H3 Alaska]

Here is what the auto start master says

He tells me on a daily basis "you have the most sensitive vehicle made" when it comes to the wiring harness

The remote start in the vehicle SHOULD have an arm and disarm output on it. On most remote starts when the car shuts down, it will pulse the arm output. This output needs to be hooked up to one of the door triggers "after shutdown" .

(the H3's have separate door triggers for each door in the passenger kick panel, it doesn?t matter which door its hooked to), and it will shut the radio off. Or, if it doesn?t have an arm/disarm output hopefully it has some type of programmable output, which can be programmed to "pulse after shutdown"

Ask him which remote star he has in there, brand and model and ill tell him the colors he needs to hook up.

[f5fstop]

You say, "...the H3's have separate door triggers for each door in the passenger kick panel..." Is this door trigger something from the Hummer factory, and normally called a door jamb switch, or is it a trigger installed for the remote start?
If it is refering to the door jamb switch; tell the master, they are not located in the passenger kick panel area on the H3. H3 door jamb switches are located in the B-pillar for the front and C-pillar for the rear. They are the black, rubber covered switches in these pillars.

If the master is refering to some triggers installed for the remote start, disregard my previous paragraph. I do not get involved with aftermarket items that affect the BCM/PCM/SDM; other than radios. So, I will butt out.

[dеiтайожни]

Take it back to the installer!

All the wires for the door triggers you need can be found at the bcm. Your alarm does have a factory alarm re-arm wire that pulses neg when remote start is aborted.

Too bad there isn't a databus module for the H3 yet, that sure makes the H2 a breeze!

[H3 Alaska]

All semantics aside?..the point is that it?s possible with more info from the user.

[marin8703]

Thanks for all the help guys. The remote start i have is the Viper 5900 SST (alarm/remote start). The radio is a pioneer avic-z1 if it matters.

Wire colors would be very helpfull, otherwise i would have to poke all the wires with my probe. I origionally didnt want to go this route because i didnt know where to find all the wires, but if i get an idea of where and what they are it will be pretty cool.

again thanks for the help.

[marin8703]

oh and also above in my posts i kept saying that the relay i worked with was on the radio harness, and that was incorrect, it is on the peripheral interface wiring harness. just wanted to correct my self.

[dеiтайожни]

Check the installation manual for your alarm for the factory alarm re-arm wire, it'll be in the aux harness. Also, the manual will show you the door trigger wire from the alarm you could tap or at least follow to the bcm.

But really... I'd take it back to the installers and tell them it's not working right. It's no fun tearing up someone elses wiring.

[marin8703]

thanks dei, i'll check out the manual for the wires, i do recall reading that it had both an disarm and a re-arm wire, gota check the wire colors. going to installer is kinda of a problem since hes quite a long way away. if its not done by summer vacation i will take it but unfortunately for the next 3 weeks i wont be able to. would be much easier thou.

[H3 Alaska]

Green/white on the auxiliary harness (6 pin connector) should go to the LF door trigger which is gray/black in pin A32 ( @ the BCM, which is in the passenger kick panel) It's a negative trigger.



Notice he uses car audio/remote start installer lingo again which I'm sure is not in compliance with a guy that works at GM

[marin8703]

Originally Posted by H3 Alaska

Green/white on the auxiliary harness (6 pin connector) should go to the LF door trigger which is gray/black in pin A32 ( @ the BCM, which is in the passenger kick panel) It's a negative trigger.



Notice he uses car audio/remote start installer lingo again which I'm sure is not in compliance with a guy that works at GM

great info thanks! im gona try to take a look at it in the next couple of days and do the work on saturday or sunday.

[HUMTECH]

Heres A pic of door switch f5 was talking about. Bottom of b pillar

[f5fstop]

Originally Posted by H3 Alaska

Green/white on the auxiliary harness (6 pin connector) should go to the LF door trigger which is gray/black in pin A32 ( @ the BCM, which is in the passenger kick panel) It's a negative trigger.



Notice he uses car audio/remote start installer lingo again which I'm sure is not in compliance with a guy that works at GM

Probably not in compliance with any engineer I have ever worked with; not just GM. Problem is not with the word trigger, problem is what does it imply. I have no use for these types of remote starters, so I never study them. So, when someone says "trigger," how in the heck do I know if he/she is talking about the door jamp switch input to the BCM, or another hard device the remote starter installer has installed somewhere in the circuit.

Trigger "signal," might have helped versus "trigger." (Especially to someone who uses the word "trigger" primarily for a handgun.)