My "plan" on how to deal with the "Illegals" we now have in our country

[bparker]

Give me your thoughts on this approach, but please read all of it first.

The “BIG Picture”:

Illegal Immigrants from Central and South America are only here to find a better way of life. Some Americans welcome them and some us want them deported because they are “breaking the law”.

Lets ask ourselves, really, why are they here?

They are here because the government of they country they are from fails to support them. Their government will not take care of them and offer them any sort of social services and will leave them in the streets to die due to hunger or illness.

The governments of the central and southern Americas would rather NOT face the real problem with their own people in their own country. In most of these countries you are either rich or poor. There isn’t a middle class. These governments would rather “dump their trash or poor people” in their own streets to survive on their own than to face the real social problem they have in their country. They would rather leave them to die than to spend any money on them like we do here in the states such as social security, medicare, etc.

So ask yourself; if you lived in such a place and knew your future was short lived if you didn’t “get out”; would you take the chance to survive and pick up all of your humble belongings and put them into a bag or backpack and set off to walk 1000s of miles on foot to another country in hopes of finding a better way of life? Knowing all the way you will probably not make it by way of death, starvation, robbery, enslavement or prison?? I think we as Americans can not even begin to fathom facing such a question. It is too distant for us to even begin to relate or understand the urgency.

How do we solve this “problem”?

Well this isn’t an easy situation but we must start somewhere. There are too major situations at hand that MUST be dealt with first.

The 1st problem is dealing with and what to do with the 13 mill illegal people we already have here.
The 2nd problem is how to stop it from getting worse tomorrow and years to come.

Solutions?

If I were president, I would propose the following it is multi-tiered solution but all tiers must be done for the “whole plan” to work.

1st – Setup a program in the Army, National Guard or even a new division that would allow any current person here in the USA to enter our military for purposes of naturalization (citizenship) by way of a 4 or 5 year program that would:
1. Teach them the meaning of what it is to be “an American” by way of familiarizing them with our history and freedoms. Give them pride to use the "American Flag" in the USA and not a flag of thier origion.
2. Give them a Military education to learn how to speak English and learn a trade or skill that would give them the ability to enter the real “job market” after service and not become a burned on our society or social services (welfare and gang or mob activity).
3. Through the new found influx of military personnel we can start offering new community services to areas in need of rebuilding such as areas that are devastated by hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes. Military is not only about war, as after hurricane Katrina we learned that we simply do NOT have enough people in our military to react to such a natural disaster in effort to save lives. secure an area and help rebuild it.


2nd – “Build the wall” - we MUST secure our borders from further infestation of illegal immigrants as it is killing our economy by way of tax burden on over populated schools, over used health care services by anchor babies.
This “wall building” labor could be done by the very illegals that are here now that need a job, they could also help patrol the borders during this construction effort as we are currently undermanned and do not have the people resources to do it.

By building the wall, once completed would finally stop the majority of influx we have coming into the USA from the southern countries. Believe it or not but Mexico has already started this same initiative to keep illegals out of Mexico!! Also, once the people from “the south” could no longer just walk into the USA and find a job; they would be forced to stay in their own countries and only at this time will their governments be forced to deal with their own “poor people” they neglect to care for now which is the source to this very problem. If these governments are not made to step up to the plate and deal with their own people economies we will NEVER solve this problem we can only deter it by using a “wall” to keep them out. We have learned that they simply WILL NOT do this and will only encourage their “trash/poor people” to keep coming to the USA as they do not and are unwilling to take care of them.

The real issue is people and the search for quality of life here and we must not loose focus and forget about this. But we must start somewhere as the USA can NOT afford to be the “dumping grounds” for all of those from the southern countries that their governments fails to support them. We must make them stay and through the option to vote must they make changes in their own country just like the USA has done since the 4th of July.

3rd – After the wall has been built and we offer them a program to enter that will grant them citizenship; we must start criminally prosecuting those who continue to defy our borders and laws designed to protect our country and freedoms so many of our forefathers and family have fought many wars to preserve.

4th – Immigration Reform – We need to allow MORE immigrants into the USA. Currently we only allow 1 – 2 million immigrants per year. We need to allow about 5-10 million per year. And we need to diversify the offerings by way of different programs. We need to STOP educating everyone for free and start offering education visas to those who wish to serve as some type of public service to our country. The sky is the limit here as far as different types of social services we can offer from education to environmental cleanup and education. But we can offer good educations to those abroad but there must be a cost.

Brent Parker
Frisco, TX

[Scouts Out]

I keep reminding everyone, The armed forces are really good at breaking destroying, killing. Words like protecting, restoring peace, enforcing... those are police words. NOt really interchangable.
The army is so small right now we are struggling to keep our current missions. The average soldier goes to Iraq ever 2 years for a year. That is not very conducive for families and results in high turn over. Lets make the border security or home land defense responsible for that.

[HummerNewbie]

Well, at least you have a plan. I agree with some of what you said and don't agree with other parts. Personally, I feel that if they are here illegally, they need to be deported. During that time maybe they can start the process and applications to be allowed to come into the country legally. If they do and they are caught in the country illegally, their application is then permanently revoked. We have laws in the country regarding immigration and just because you were able to sneak in does not give you the right to slide on them.

This hits some what close to home for me as a very good friend is going through the proper procedures right now. He has been jumping through hoops to do what he needs to do to be here legally. He is actually at his interview with INS in Miami as I am typing this. We also need to get a better handle on how the process is done. He has had to pay renewal fee after renewal fee because the process is so back logged. Even though he lives in Orlando they setup the meeting in Miami. He contacted them several times in writing that he lives here and the meeting should be at the local office here rather than in Miami but they basically said too bad. Since he is doing everything legally he and his wife have to take time off of work, drive down there and pay for a hotel just because the system couldn't get it straight.

Many advocates to letting the illegals stay here say that we need them since they do the jobs that Americans won't do. I feel there is a solution to this. Tell all the people living on welfare that are capable of working that they have so many days until the free ride ends. Offer assistance in relocation if need be. This would be a huge relief to the welfare system and the money saved could be rerouted to where it can be better used for immigration and national security. There are far too many people that are perfectly capable of working but either do not because they would rather sit on the couch and watch TV waiting on their monthly check or there are just not enough jobs in the urban areas where they currently live. Offer assistance to move their family to an area with jobs. Maybe offer some job training as well but cut the free ride for those that truly don't deserve it.

I do not understand why you think that we should be letting more people in every year though, why is that?

Just my $0.02

[PARAGON]

Your "plan" is a problem, not a solution.

Sorry, but you are just oversimplifying things. To suggest that one could just dump them all in the military and "train" them is ludicrous. The military is currently a voluntary organization. By your definition of the illegals, they would be "forced" to serve and that is not what our military is predicated upon.

Leave the military out of this.

Secondly, are you hinting at a mild form of slavery? Forcing the illegals to work some specific job for their American citizenship?

Lastly, I just don't see the logic of allowing more legal immigrants is going to fix anything. It makes no sense. The people that are illegal aliens are not of means and cannot pay or afford the process and want the anonymity of illegality. They send large portions of their paychecks back to their families in the home countries, in many cases without any taxes taken. By allowing MORE legals would not accomodate the problems as they exist now.

[bparker]

Paragon, I think you misunderstood me a little. I am not saying we must force them to serve but if they want citizenship here "now" give them this option to serve. This would mean they would volunteer to serve based on the award they would recieve at the end of thier term.

They always have another choice which is to go home where they legally should be.

On the other end I didnt imply (from what I thought) to allow more illegals into the USA. This "plan" would be to stop it, well not stop it because no "plan" is fool-proof but it would stop about 90% after the wall is built. Agreed?

I appreciate everyones input as its nice to hear from others as to what they "seriously" think about this situation.

Brent

[bparker]

Yea this is a whole nother conversation but what most people are missing is: that if we give them citizenship to do the jobs no one wants to do then W T F makes people think they will continue to do the crap jobs after they are citizens? Hell no, they will quit go to school on free grants from the gov (some of them) and the others will start looking for entry level postions within companies right away.

They do the crap jobs because they have to and do not have a choice - make them citizens and they will move up. Its the only logical thing to do and I dont see how people cant grab this.

Many advocates to letting the illegals stay here say that we need them since they do the jobs that Americans won't do.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by bparker:
Paragon, I think you misunderstood me a little. I am not saying we must force them to serve but if they want citizenship here "now" give them this option to serve. This would mean they would volunteer to serve based on the award they would recieve at the end of thier term.

They always have another choice which is to go home where they legally should be.

On the other end I didnt imply (from what I thought) to allow more illegals into the USA. This "plan" would be to stop it, well not stop it because no "plan" is fool-proof but it would stop about 90% after the wall is built. Agreed?

I appreciate everyones input as its nice to hear from others as to what they "seriously" think about this situation.

Brent

Better understood now.

I don't know if there is a "right" answer. We would not have had the railroad boom without all of the illegal Chinese labor in the 1800s. That was instrumental in the growth of the U.S.

Doesn't make it right though.

Maybe just let them stay on a "work towards citizenship visa" with a higher federal tax.

Snipe the future ones with less than lethal devices Some peoples aren't afraid of death but they are damn scared of pain.

[HummerNewbie]

Originally posted by PARAGON:
Snipe the future ones with less than lethal devices Some peoples aren't afraid of death but they are damn scared of pain.

DING...DING...DING!!!! I think we have a winning solution

[h2itis]

Originally posted by bparker:
Give me your thoughts on this approach, but please read all of it first.

The “BIG Picture”:

Illegal Immigrants from Central and South America are only here to find a better way of life. Some Americans welcome them and some us want them deported because they are “breaking the law”.

Lets ask ourselves, really, why are they here?

They are here because the government of they country they are from fails to support them. Their government will not take care of them and offer them any sort of social services and will leave them in the streets to die due to hunger or illness.

The governments of the central and southern Americas would rather NOT face the real problem with their own people in their own country. In most of these countries you are either rich or poor. There isn’t a middle class. These governments would rather “dump their trash or poor people” in their own streets to survive on their own than to face the real social problem they have in their country. They would rather leave them to die than to spend any money on them like we do here in the states such as social security, medicare, etc.

So ask yourself; if you lived in such a place and knew your future was short lived if you didn’t “get out”; would you take the chance to survive and pick up all of your humble belongings and put them into a bag or backpack and set off to walk 1000s of miles on foot to another country in hopes of finding a better way of life? Knowing all the way you will probably not make it by way of death, starvation, robbery, enslavement or prison?? I think we as Americans can not even begin to fathom facing such a question. It is too distant for us to even begin to relate or understand the urgency.

How do we solve this “problem”?

Well this isn’t an easy situation but we must start somewhere. There are too major situations at hand that MUST be dealt with first.

The 1st problem is dealing with and what to do with the 13 mill illegal people we already have here.
The 2nd problem is how to stop it from getting worse tomorrow and years to come.

Solutions?

If I were president, I would propose the following it is multi-tiered solution but all tiers must be done for the “whole plan” to work.

1st – Setup a program in the Army, National Guard or even a new division that would allow any current person here in the USA to enter our military for purposes of naturalization (citizenship) by way of a 4 or 5 year program that would:
1. Teach them the meaning of what it is to be “an American” by way of familiarizing them with our history and freedoms. Give them pride to use the "American Flag" in the USA and not a flag of thier origion.
2. Give them a Military education to learn how to speak English and learn a trade or skill that would give them the ability to enter the real “job market” after service and not become a burned on our society or social services (welfare and gang or mob activity).
3. Through the new found influx of military personnel we can start offering new community services to areas in need of rebuilding such as areas that are devastated by hurricanes, tornadoes and earthquakes. Military is not only about war, as after hurricane Katrina we learned that we simply do NOT have enough people in our military to react to such a natural disaster in effort to save lives. secure an area and help rebuild it.


2nd – “Build the wall” - we MUST secure our borders from further infestation of illegal immigrants as it is killing our economy by way of tax burden on over populated schools, over used health care services by anchor babies.
This “wall building” labor could be done by the very illegals that are here now that need a job, they could also help patrol the borders during this construction effort as we are currently undermanned and do not have the people resources to do it.

By building the wall, once completed would finally stop the majority of influx we have coming into the USA from the southern countries. Believe it or not but Mexico has already started this same initiative to keep illegals out of Mexico!! Also, once the people from “the south” could no longer just walk into the USA and find a job; they would be forced to stay in their own countries and only at this time will their governments be forced to deal with their own “poor people” they neglect to care for now which is the source to this very problem. If these governments are not made to step up to the plate and deal with their own people economies we will NEVER solve this problem we can only deter it by using a “wall” to keep them out. We have learned that they simply WILL NOT do this and will only encourage their “trash/poor people” to keep coming to the USA as they do not and are unwilling to take care of them.

The real issue is people and the search for quality of life here and we must not loose focus and forget about this. But we must start somewhere as the USA can NOT afford to be the “dumping grounds” for all of those from the southern countries that their governments fails to support them. We must make them stay and through the option to vote must they make changes in their own country just like the USA has done since the 4th of July.

3rd – After the wall has been built and we offer them a program to enter that will grant them citizenship; we must start criminally prosecuting those who continue to defy our borders and laws designed to protect our country and freedoms so many of our forefathers and family have fought many wars to preserve.

4th – Immigration Reform – We need to allow MORE immigrants into the USA. Currently we only allow 1 – 2 million immigrants per year. We need to allow about 5-10 million per year. And we need to diversify the offerings by way of different programs. We need to STOP educating everyone for free and start offering education visas to those who wish to serve as some type of public service to our country. The sky is the limit here as far as different types of social services we can offer from education to environmental cleanup and education. But we can offer good educations to those abroad but there must be a cost.

Brent Parker
Frisco, TX

This plan is way too flawed. Putting them in the military would make it extremely difficult for them to smuggle drugs. They'd never go for it.

[bparker]

Well, your right. It would be flawed at first till you got rid of the bad apples. Its not like it would be making it as easy as it is now would it?

I know there isnt a perfect solution for any of this but why not try to take the first step in the right direction?

[devilsfan]

Paragon - why less than lethal? It's legal here to shoot trespassers. As far as I'm concerned, bullets are cheap. Word gets out that if you step foot on this soil illegally you're going to get your head blown off, you better believe we'll have fewer illegals, one way or another.

I think this is the perfect solution. Honestly.

And DEFINITELY leave the military out of this!

Stacy

[deicustoms1]

Originally posted by devilsfan:
Paragon - why less than lethal?

Originally posted by PARAGON:
Some peoples aren't afraid of death but they are damn scared of pain.

That's why! and I have to agree.

[PARAGON]

Originally posted by devilsfan:
Paragon - why less than lethal? It's legal here to shoot trespassers. As far as I'm concerned, bullets are cheap. Word gets out that if you step foot on this soil illegally you're going to get your head blown off, you better believe we'll have fewer illegals, one way or another.

I think this is the perfect solution. Honestly.

And DEFINITELY leave the military out of this!

Stacy

Because it sounds better. People from Maryland and California might even go for it. Some are driven to the point that they make it or die trying, taking unnecessary risks.

If you have some people with Less Than Lethal options popping on the illegals and stopping them in their tracks, it's a "humane" way of stopping them.

Besides, while Texas law is very liberal with the use of guns, it's not quite as simple as being legal to simply shoot a trespasser. You can shoot a trespasser only at night if you think he is stealing something or committing some other crime against a person or your property. And, this is only at night for protection of property.

[DennisAJC]

Good points and bad points. Still a very tough and sensitive issue depending on how you look at it.

When I was young, my family came from a 3rd world country. Poor and starting off fresh, 1/2 my family probably wouldn't have made it if we were deported at the time.

I know what it's like to be hungry with nowhere or no one to turn to except what you can do for yourself.

Sometimes I watch my wife and kids when they sleep thinking of how terrifying it would be to see them hungry, sick or ill-provided for. I would make that run across the border if I were in that position. Damn rights.

It's a tough problem to face especially when you look or relate to the human element. But both sides have legitimate positions. A sad fact is, unless you don't build a wall and protect your border, this problem will always exist. Mexico WILL NOT help fix this problem. Mexico will more than love to see their economic burden migrate to the US. Put more pressure on the lazy Mexican government and watch an improvement.

I'm surprised that the US is not going after the heart of the problem....The Mexican government.

Even for those of us that can ignore the human element from our armchairs, you won't see any serious movement to penalize the businesses that profit from use of illegals. That's a huge part of the draw. Yea I know there are some limited displays of enforcement in this area, but I know from business experience that that's easily sidestepped.

S.

S.

[f5fstop]

I can't go into detail, but my solution is simple....
<span class="ev_code_RED">Shoot 'em all, and let their God sort 'em out.</span>

They are ILLEGAL, what part of ILLEGAL is hard to understand. And please, do not say that they are only taking jobs in the fields, or as maids, etc., they are actively working for less as carpenters, masons, road construction, and the builders, contractors, etc., are NOT passing the lower costs on to you or me, they are pocketing the money.
A sensible solution would be to throw a few thousand of these greedy corporation owners into jail with big Bubba for about five years, fine them everything they own, and the rest will follow the law and NOT hire anyone illegal.

(And might I add, I do not give two s**ts about why they are coming into this country. I do not care about them at all. If they want a different way of life, then fight for it in their own country. Our forefathers did and it worked, so let them stay home and fight for a better way of life, or die trying or winning about it.)

[ratesguy]

Paragon- Here in Texas I can shoot anyone who is threatening me or my family at anytime, not just at night. BParker- Not the military- maybe something like the civilion conservation corps to maintain parks and public areas. Of course this should apply to all able bodied welfare recipients as well. I do like the idea of there being a price to pay for receiving welfare. That is long overdue!

[H3HUMVEE]

[quote]Originally posted by f5fstop:
I can't go into detail, but my solution is simple....
<span class="ev_code_RED">Shoot 'em all, and let their God sort 'em out.</span>

QUOTE]

X2 ...

[DennisAJC]

[quote]Originally posted by H3HUMVEE:

Originally posted by f5fstop:
I can't go into detail, but my solution is simple....
<span class="ev_code_RED">Shoot 'em all, and let their God sort 'em out.</span>
QUOTE]
X2 ...

I fully understand this concept applied to terrorists or convicts. By all means.


If inacted, would you be willing to do the job?

"Shoot'em all"????

Would that include the women and children???
e-tough guys.

I'd bet given the chance, you guys would be doing an abrupt about French face and a little trickle in the pants.

To explain that you are racists is acceptable and understandable but to spout out a "Tough Guy" image doesn't impress most members here. Think of what your watchtoomuchmovies fantasies imply before your quick wannbe cool reply makes you both look completely assinine.

Let's leave the smarter more constructive people to this debate OK?

[deicustoms1]

What Dennis is trying to say is, don't use that method on illegals coming from Mexico. Use it on Canadians, and don't bother waiting for them to cross the border, just go and get 'em.