Tragic. And just before XMAS.

[h2co-pilot]

Originally Posted by CO Hummer

That's true. But you have to consider who you take along too. I was unlucky enough to ride with a woman that hid all my candy bars up her crack. If we had needed nourishment, we'd have been fishing them out with a rubber scraper. I wouldn't want to subject my family to that.

I I I was holding them for rationing....a a at least they were warm.

[Mrs.ssippi]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

Yep, you've made yourself crystal clear. You are a blind, cold-hearted fool; a small, petty man with no sense of compassion, sympathy, pity, understanding or charity.

Obviously the man made a series of mistakes that went from bad to worse. No duh. But he took responsibility for them and lost his life trying to help his family.

It's easy for you to sit in your lazy boy and call him stupid. Who knows ... maybe he was ... or maybe a dangerous world just got the best of him. But does it really matter? You're no paragon of perfection yourself, so why are you throwing stones? At least this guy didn't back down from the fight. His final actions were based on love for his family. Where's your heart of gold, paragon? ... missing in action. You make that clearer with every spiteful post.

Enough is enough. Leave the dead in peace and stfu.

I just think the guy was not thinking. Smart people do stupid things all the time. My question is where was he going? Did he really think he could go for help? I have no survivor skills but I think (and I said think) I would build a fire. And then the smoke from the fire maybe would attract some attention and then someone would find me. I live in the south, it never snows here, just ice. But I keep a blaket, a pair of tennis shoes and a 12 pack of Diet Dr. Pepper in my car at all times. And most of the time if you look on the floor of the car you can find at least a happy meal of old fries and chicken nuggets. We also keep MRE's in the Hummer at all times. But I keep all of that stuff just in case. Why? I don't know will it keep me and my kids alive? No, but it makes me feel better. I don't think anyone is saying that we are happy that this happened. It is a sad thing, lets just learn from this and move on. Everyone here keep some stuff in the truck that could help you. Something like MRE's, a small hatchet, some matches and anything you think might help you out. Hey Dennis, DRTY and Rocks. What do ya'll keep in your truck, the weather is crazy around you guys.

[h2co-pilot]

I have no survivor skills but I think (and I said think) I would build a fire. And then the smoke from the fire maybe would attract some attention and then someone would find me

Secondly, they didn't setup camp once it was realized that they were going no where fast. Utilize the car and anything else they could get their hands on to set up a camp where they could build a large fire that would radiate the heat and keep the car warm.

FWIW- They even burnt all their tires including the spare.

The family's ordeal began when they missed a Highway 42 exit from Interstate 5. They had eaten dinner in Roseburg, Ore., and were trying to make it over the mountains to the coastal town of Gold Beach where they planned to stay the night, Kati Kim told authorities after her rescue. Looking at an Oregon map, they decided to take Bear Camp Road out of Grants Pass instead. The road is primarily used in the summer by rafters on the Rogue River. The route isn't plowed in the winter.

While this sounds impossible, go ahead and check out MapQuest's directions from Grants Pass to Gold Beach. Yup, they include Bear Camp Road. Furthermore, take a look at Bear Camp Road on Google Maps (the road connects Grants Pass to Gold Beach)--it looks completely ordinary. Furthermore, drill down on the Google map satellite view, you can see how thick and vast the Cascade forest is directly off of Bear Camp Road.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by Wisha Haddan H3

Yep, you've made yourself crystal clear. You are a blind, cold-hearted fool; a small, petty man with no sense of compassion, sympathy, pity, understanding or charity.

Obviously the man made a series of mistakes that went from bad to worse. No duh. But he took responsibility for them and lost his life trying to help his family.

It's easy for you to sit in your lazy boy and call him stupid. Who knows ... maybe he was ... or maybe a dangerous world just got the best of him. But does it really matter? You're no paragon of perfection yourself, so why are you throwing stones? At least this guy didn't back down from the fight. His final actions were based on love for his family. Where's your heart of gold, paragon? ... missing in action. You make that clearer with every spiteful post.

Enough is enough. Leave the dead in peace and stfu.

Give me a fvcking break.

"Where's your hear of gold, paragon?"

What the fvck is that? Could your pussy hurt any worse?

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by h2co-pilot

FWIW- They even burnt all their tires including the spare.

No, they only burned the spare, according to articles.

[h2co-pilot]

No, everything I have heard and read indicates all the tires were burned among other things.

The Kims woke to packed snow and ice and couldn't move their vehicle. For the next several days, Kati Kim says it rained all day and snowed all night. The family would occasionally turn on the car for heat, but gas was low. They also burned the car tires, magazines and damp driftwood for warmth.

http://www.koin.com/Global/story.asp?S=5784900

http://news.google.com/news?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&tab=in&q=james+kim+tires+fire&btnG=Search+News

[Mrs.ssippi]

Hell, Paragon you and CP need to get a room already. Kiss and make-up.

[PARAGON]

Helping made him hard to find

By Barbara Anderson / The Fresno Bee
12/08/06 04:38:27

Rescuers say James Kim, the San Francisco technology writer who was found Wednesday in a creek bed in a remote part of Oregon, made a superhuman effort to save his stranded family when he left them on a logging road to seek help.
But while he had the best of intentions ? to find help ? the decision ultimately cost him his life.
Kim, 35, was found floating in the middle of Big Windy Creek, 11 days after his family's car became stuck in the snow on a side road and four days after he ventured off to get help. He died of hypothermia and exposure.
His wife and two young daughters were found safe Monday in the car and rescued.
San Joaquin Valley search-and-rescue experts say they don't want to criticize Kim's choice to hike for help, because Kim was trying to save his family.
But they say the worst thing to do is to start walking ? unless you know where you are going.
"If you don't know for sure this is the way to go, just stay put," said Sgt. Alan Knight of the Tulare County Sheriff's Department.
Hiking for help makes it harder for searchers, said Adrienne Freeman, a ranger at Yosemite National Park. Each year, park rangers participate in about 200 searches for missing hikers, she said.
Search teams work very methodically, Freeman said. They define an area and search it and move on to a new area. If a lost person is moving, he may walk into an area that's already been searched and not be found, she said.
And someone hiking through trees is harder to spot from the air than someone standing in a clearing.
Freeman's advice for lost hikers: "Get yourself somewhere visible and don't move."
Each year, people become stranded or lost in the Sierra east of the San Joaquin Valley.
In October 2004, 19 outdoors enthusiasts went missing in a fierce Sierra snowstorm. Crews rescued four hikers in Madera County mountains, four in Fresno County east of Courtright Reservoir and nine in Sequoia and Kings Canyon national parks. Two other hikers and their dog were found in the Dinkey Creek area and brought to safety.
Jon Hubble, 16, of Selma, spent two cold nights in the wilderness near Huntington Lake two summers ago. Hubble remained lost while he continued to hike through woods, and was found only after he stopped hiking and set up a camp in a clearing.
Hubble became lost when he got ahead of members of a Boy Scout troop.
"I took off too fast," he said Thursday. "I thought I knew where I was going."
He realized he was lost when he reached a river, but kept hiking. "I probably should have stopped there," he said.
Hubble said he met a couple on a trail who gave him directions that he followed, but ended up deeper in the woods. He decided to stop when he found a clearing on the side of a hill.
Two days later, rescuers found him.
If he'd continued to hike, Hubble said, "I probably would have just got more lost, gone deeper into the woods. I probably would not have found a clearing as good as that one."
Oregon rescuers say Kim died after picking his way nearly to the end of the steep, 5-mile canyon in the Siskiyou National Forest west of Grants Pass.
Kim walked more than 10 miles over rugged terrain looking for help. But he had walked nearly in a loop. His body was found only about a mile from the family car.
Wearing tennis shoes, a jacket and sweater, he had left his family on Saturday, following a logging road back the way the family had come, winding around a ridge, first south, then west.
After walking three to five miles along the road, he turned east into a ravine, apparently to follow the creek in the hope that it would lead down to homes.
That used to be a recommended survival tactic, but it has fallen out of favor because people who try it usually become more susceptible to hypothermia.
Trackers followed Kim's footprints through dense forest and over slippery boulders from one side of the creek to the other.
"I can only describe him as an extremely motivated individual," said Joe Hyatt of the local Swift Water Rescue Team, which tracked him along the creek bed. "There were areas where the only option for us to pass through was to enter the water and physically swim."
Kim was almost certainly dripping wet. It's not known whether he realized he was approaching the Rogue River, but authorities said he wouldn't have found civilization even had he made it to where the creek empties out.
Had Kim known to continue down the logging road from where the car stopped, he soon would have come to a fishing and rafting resort known as Black Bar Lodge. It was vacant for the winter, but rescuers checked it several times, Jackson County Sheriff Mike Winters said.
The Kims left San Francisco on Nov.18 for a combined vacation and work trip for James Kim. They spent Thanksgiving in Seattle with family, then went to Portland, Ore., where they had brunch with a friend Nov. 25.
The family then left on their way to a stopover in Gold Beach. At 8:30 that night, they ate dinner in the central Oregon town of Roseburg, where authorities say they intended to take state Highway 42 over to the coast.
But they missed the turnoff, consulted a map, and decided to drive the 55 miles down Interstate 5 to Grants Pass. There they turned onto Bear Camp Road, which is lightly traveled even in the summer and often is closed in the winter.
It was stormy, and around the 2,300-foot elevation, about 50 miles from their intended destination, James Kim turned off onto the logging road, apparently by mistake. They were soon winding up the mountains, hopelessly lost, authorities said, and finally became stranded in snow.
People who frequently drive in the Sierra say they carry provisions with them, should they become stuck and stranded.
Walt Taguchi of Fresno leads cross-country ski trips for the Sierra Club and teaches lessons to beginners. He carries five to six extra blankets in his car. They double as seat covers for his 1996 Subaru Outback. And he takes extra food and water. He also carries two sets of tire chains ? even though he owns an all-wheel vehicle. "Just in case one breaks, I can put the other one on."
Lt. Joseph Blohm of the Fresno County Sheriff's Department said winter travelers should let others know where they are going in the mountains and when they expect to return. And they should be prepared to spend the night in the mountains, if need be.
No one expects to be stranded in a snowstorm, he said. But every year people find themselves in harrowing situations in the mountains ringing the San Joaquin Valley. "If anyone knew they were going to get stuck, they'd take a whole lot more care," he said. "But I know people who drive up to the snow and don't take a coat because they don't expect to get out of the car."
More information
Be prepared


Tips to prevent becoming stranded or lost, and what to do if you get lost:

Preparation: Have the correct gear for the weather and terrain conditions you will be in.

Let someone know what your plans are -- where you are going,when you expect to return, the type of vehicle you are driving, the type of gear you have with you.

Make sure you have a current map of the area, a Global Positioning System device and and a compass. If you are hiking, topographical maps are the best choice, but have a map with you. Know how to read the map, and use a GPS/compass. Don't rely on your cell phone, because some areas don't have cell coverage.

If traveling by car, carry emergency supplies in your vehicle that include blankets, a flashlight, flares, some food, water and a first-aid kit.

If you become stranded or lost, STAY PUT. Stay warm. And if possible, get out into the open so you can be seen from the air.

Don't panic.

If you need to report someone who is overdue, time is important. Notify the local law enforcement agency as soon as possible, have recent photos, trip itinerary, and type of gear your party has with them as well as personal identifying information and medical concerns.
Sources: Tulare County Sheriff's Department, Fresno County Sheriff's Department, Yosemite National Park rangers.

[GLBLWARMR]

When the story first broke that the family had been found and the father had left to go find help, my first thought was he made it out and was sitting around somewhere hoping that his family would be found dead so he could collect the life insurance. Yeah I know that is some cold hearted sh*t but how can you think anything else with all of the fvcked up people out there. Sticking kids in microwaves, murdering 23 people, murdering 8 people, O.J., Scott Peterson and the long list of people who have drown their own kids. Just read a story about a father who used his 18 month old child as a speed bag to work his hands for his MMA match he had coming up. I figured that this was just another scheme by some screwed in the head dude.

I have been through so many different survival training courses that I could sit here and analyze everything that he did wrong and how he should have done things different but I am not. I apologize to the family for my initial thoughts. I am sorry those two girls will grow up without their real father. James Kim was one of the good ones.

[PARAGON]

I stand corrected. This says they built a "bonfire" out of the car tires later after burning the spare.

"He was making decisions, and she was too, that they thought would be the best for their family to survive," Hastings said. "We should all ask ourselves what we would do in that situation. He was trying to save his family."

The chain of tragic events began as the Kims were completing a Pacific Northwest vacation and heading toward home in San Francisco, where James Kim worked at the tech news site Cnet and the couple owned two stores.

Sometime after dark, the family missed the turnoff on Interstate 5 for state Highway 42 in Roseburg, which would have taken them to Coos Bay and a straight shot to Gold Beach.

The Kims consulted a road map and spotted Bear Camp Road out of Grants Pass, which is a scenic route to the coast during the summer but is a dangerous cliffside path often blocked by snow in the winter.

Once on Bear Camp Road, the Kims made a wrong turn onto the logging road and the weather worsened, Hastings said. The family noticed signs indicating that the road is often closed in winter weather and decided to get out of the area.

By that time, it was snowing hard, and the car became stuck when the Kims tried to turn around. It took a long time -- and a lot of gas -- for the Kims to free the station wagon, and by then they were concerned they didn't have enough fuel to make it back down the mountain.

James Kim drove a little farther back up the road until they found a fork, where they stopped. They thought their silver car would be visible there from the air, Hastings said.

For the next several days, Hastings said, the Kims stayed in their car while it snowed and rained, huddling to stay warm and using the heater only sporadically to save gas. On Nov. 29, the weather started to clear, allowing the Kims to build fires outside the car with magazines, wood they dried out, and eventually the spare tire.

A missing-persons report on the Kims had reached Oregon authorities Nov. 30 and the search began the next day, last Friday. But authorities weren't concentrating on the area west of Grants Pass until Saturday, when they looked up records and detected signals from the family's cell phone.

"It's such a big area," Hastings said. "Our job is to pick at that needle in the haystack, and that was being done."

The Kims had built a bonfire using the car tires last Friday, but it had gone out by late afternoon when Kati Kim said she heard a helicopter. Nobody came for them.

James Kim's body was found only a mile as the crow flies from his car, and the family would have actually reached a cabin had they originally continued down the logging road, authorities said.
"I think the irony can speak for itself," Hastings said. "He went the only way he knew."

[PARAGON]

"He was making decisions, and she was too, that they thought would be the best for their family to survive," Hastings said. "We should all ask ourselves what we would do in that situation. He was trying to save his family."

[BKLYNH2]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

I stand corrected. This says they built a "bonfire" out of the car tires later after burning the spare.

OMFG PARAGON conceeded to something!

Can't we all just get along now? .....
It is the holiday time of year you know.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by BKLYNH2

OMFG PARAGON conceeded to something!

Can't we all just get along now? .....
It is the holiday time of year you know.

STFU duckster

[Boar-Ral]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

Secondly, to not die, don't do stupid stuff. Sh!t will happen enough by itself, no need to help it along.

This is quite different from the response I expected from you, Paragon.

I expected something more similar to this:

Originally Posted by PARAGON

No.

Just bugging.

[BKLYNH2]

You know, some duct tape may have made the difference between life and death.

[PARAGON]

Originally Posted by BKLYNH2

You know, some duct tape may have made the difference between life and death.

It actually did. The wife used reflective Hurricane Tape (I think that's what it was) taped in a criss-cross pattern on top of an umbrellla to garner attention from the helo.

[Boar-Ral]

Originally Posted by GLBLWARMR

Yeah I know that is some cold hearted sh*t but how can you think anything else with all of the fvcked up people out there. Sticking kids in microwaves, murdering 23 people, murdering 8 people, the designer of the Jeep Compass, O.J., Scott Peterson and the long list of people who have drown their own kids.

Just helping out a bit.

[ROX]

Originally Posted by Mrs.ssippi

Hey Dennis, DRTY and Rocks. What do ya'll keep in your truck, the weather is crazy around you guys.

You wouldn't believe the amount of things in my car. My most recent being a 4 person survival bag from the Red Cross. I've been stranded once, a long long time ago. I'm not going to tell you what happened, but it could have been worse. It's something I'll never forget, and I'm always prepared. period.(even before I drove the H2)

Here's a fellow and his family that got stuck in some really crappy weather. When it snows in the Oregon Mtns it puts down feet of snow in a short amount of time. He got caught in it. When he left the car 7 days later, the snow had melted enough, (from what it looked like in the photo) for him to drive away. (When they found the Mom and girls the car was sitting on the PAVEMENT, NOT DIRT OR GRAVEL) They had burned the tires. As for the Mom not being able to leave because she couldn't carry her daughters thru the snow, God was watching over the girls. After 9 days of sitting in one spot, I'm sure most people would have started walking. The fact that Mr. Kim decided to walk into a dense forest canyon instead of walking down the road, is beyond me. Why they didn't start a raging fire underneath a big tree with their spare tire, I cannot understand.

Am I sorry he died? Absolutely. She's a widow with two little kids to raise and he ought to be around to contribute to what kind of ladies his girls become. But there are things to learn from this. Instead, the authorities in Oregon are plastered all over the news saying, "he didn't do anything wrong, he was just trying to save his family." He did do some things wrong and I think those should be pointed out so other people don't make the same mistakes he did.

If this guy had made a wrong turn in the desert......

[Boar-Ral]

I can understand both sides of the argument, here. The ordeal was the result of a series of poor decisions, which in itself is a shame. We can criticize someone for the decisions they made, but I can look back at things I have done, and in retrospect, I should have known better. It was late, and he might have been tired, upset, etc. That can really affect your judgement and cause you to make decisions you might not have in a clear frame of mind.

On the other hand, when he did realize how bad the situation, he did what he felt was right, which itself was another poor decision. His heart was in the right place, even if his mind was not. I think what causes me to be the saddest is that when he died, he probably did not know that his family had been located, and might have assumed they were experiencing the same fate as himself.

I think that the best way that the media could have reported this is with the facts. Just tell it like it is, and leave it up to individuals to respond how they feel appropriate. I shouldn't feel that the media is tugging at my heartstrings the way they are setting it up. I should feel that way -- or not feel that way -- based upon what happened, plain and simple, and how I feel about that.

I would probably still feel badly for him and his family, but at least I would be making that decision completely on my own.

[BKLYNH2]

Originally Posted by PARAGON

It actually did. The wife used reflective Hurricane Tape (I think that's what it was) taped in an AHOY! pattern on top of an umbrellla to garnier attention from the helo.